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View Full Version : Why are all the assassin heroes so ****ing OP?!



PRjustin12792
02-12-2017, 08:33 AM
Peacekeeper and Orochi are absolutely ridiculous speed and damage wise and have no noticeable downside.

Waynedetta40k
02-12-2017, 08:47 AM
Because other heroes are more dependant on the basics in this game and people still suck at the basics, while its easy to spam win with orochi and peacekeeper against noobs. Proof you are a noob is basicially this:
have no noticeable downside
This is why they seem op.

Hispanic_Weeb
02-12-2017, 08:55 AM
They're really not all bad if you just pay attention. All their defining moves have simple counters and are really visibly blatant.

Brave_Thunder
02-12-2017, 09:09 AM
No down sides? What about their low health,lack of shield or long lasting protection and low single hit damage?They are indeed easy to use if you spam,but when you face a good opponent that can react instead to simply take all your lights,they are the hardest class to use.

mahdioof
02-12-2017, 09:59 AM
ubi
**** u and ur buggy games
u r piss a **** company
shouldnot buy a **** from ur company
with this laggy server and buggy games
plz dont made online games **** company
go and made single games
pigs
another loose in ur games idiots

Arcade199
02-12-2017, 10:23 AM
I agree. even thought they do have a downside on the health they have, it's 1 not enough in my opinion and 2 IF you miss 1 attack, a assasing with some form of experiance can easily get 3 or 4 attacks in without you being able to block it and incase anyone at ubisoft is reading this, please fix the bug that shows the normal mouse as soon as you go in to shift F2 or SHIFT TAB. thanks!

Ujir0
02-12-2017, 04:46 PM
Peacekeeper and Orochi are absolutely ridiculous speed and damage wise and have no noticeable downside.

I've only played orochi during all tests CB etc.

And you're wrong.

They are squishy as *****, revenge mode is a lot less viable.

IMO, the shielded guys are OP, and i'm talking about the potential.

Any bot i fight with a shield it's impossible to get through his defence, they can attack and block afterwards. Little openings, lots sustainability and God help you if your friend joins the fight cuz then you got one of these ***** in revenge mode.

orochi requires higher skill, not getting hit etc.

Einherjar25
02-12-2017, 05:07 PM
I've only played orochi during all tests CB etc.

And you're wrong.

They are squishy as *****, revenge mode is a lot less viable.

IMO, the shielded guys are OP, and i'm talking about the potential.

Any bot i fight with a shield it's impossible to get through his defence, they can attack and block afterwards. Little openings, lots sustainability and God help you if your friend joins the fight cuz then you got one of these ***** in revenge mode.

orochi requires higher skill, not getting hit etc.

I'm sorry but that is simply not strue. Yesterday I played the Conquerer every single time that I block I would try to counter and the damn PeacemakerS, every single one of them, would just get away without taking any dmg. It ****ing frustrating that have them take shots at you, MISS and just go away without anykind repercussion. It's ridiculous actually. So I started using parry, which is theory, superior then blocks. Nope... Still getting away. Now on the flip side, every time I attacked, I was in trouble and losing HP. How is that logical game mechanics? Maybe the Orochi is not as OP as the Peacemaker but all the lights are superior. There's a reason why you only see those in duels!! Little kids wants to win at all cost.

YakFruit
02-12-2017, 05:21 PM
Have to disagree. The assassins really need an expert hand to do well with. If you go down to spamming lights, it is your own failure. Vast majority of Orochi players couldn't parry a high heavy from a raider.

In the entire beta, I only played one assassin who knew their stuff, any other time i lost to an orochi was just because I screwed up defending against light attack spam.

Womb_Raider___
02-12-2017, 05:33 PM
Yeah I agree assassins are too easy to use.

I've been trying to find a way to beat them using warden, the only thing I found is spamming the sweep attack thing (right click + left click) seems to work pretty well.

It attacks so fast and so far they just don't expect it, but it's crucial to keep your distance at all times and recharge your stamina because it uses a lot of it. I now win most of my matches against peacekeepers and orochi.

Ephemiel
02-12-2017, 05:35 PM
The only one that's a bit too strong is the Peacekeeper.

BATTERIS
02-12-2017, 05:59 PM
Warlord kill everything.

https://youtu.be/vfdFBz_im4o

Durlekz
02-12-2017, 06:00 PM
I'm sorry but that is simply not strue. Yesterday I played the Conquerer every single time that I block I would try to counter and the damn PeacemakerS, every single one of them, would just get away without taking any dmg. It ****ing frustrating that have them take shots at you, MISS and just go away without anykind repercussion. It's ridiculous actually. So I started using parry, which is theory, superior then blocks. Nope... Still getting away. Now on the flip side, every time I attacked, I was in trouble and losing HP. How is that logical game mechanics? Maybe the Orochi is not as OP as the Peacemaker but all the lights are superior. There's a reason why you only see those in duels!! Little kids wants to win at all cost.

Parry, guard break throw into wall. => Heavy => Slam => Heavy => Slam => dead peacekeeper.

Einherjar25
02-12-2017, 06:13 PM
Parry, guard break throw into wall. => Heavy => Slam => Heavy => Slam => dead peacekeeper.

Thanks for the tip, but I you can't hit the lights after a parry. They just dodge back a step and they are gone AGAIN. If you can get them on time then I have absolutly no idea how you can this.

Ujir0
02-13-2017, 04:20 PM
I'm sorry but that is simply not strue. Yesterday I played the Conquerer every single time that I block I would try to counter and the damn PeacemakerS, every single one of them, would just get away without taking any dmg. It ****ing frustrating that have them take shots at you, MISS and just go away without anykind repercussion. It's ridiculous actually. So I started using parry, which is theory, superior then blocks. Nope... Still getting away. Now on the flip side, every time I attacked, I was in trouble and losing HP. How is that logical game mechanics? Maybe the Orochi is not as OP as the Peacemaker but all the lights are superior. There's a reason why you only see those in duels!! Little kids wants to win at all cost.

I think it might be a good idea to practice versus a bot.

Ive rarely seen players play as good as bots and i've actually learned a lot from bots, where i thought no parry or block was possible, a bot does it.
Bots will show you openings and etc that you didnt think were possible. XD

theromanticswb
02-13-2017, 04:43 PM
Every thread I've seen in here so far complaining about classes is coming from people who are VERY obviously, not fighting game players and just do not understand the game. We should really just ignore these kinds of threads.

Orochi is a good character but I see people saying things like, He gets like 3 or 4 free hits in a row because he's so FAST!!!!!!!! If he's doing that to you, you are NOT a good player yet. Keep working on it. No character in this game has a 3 or 4 hit confirm (which means guaranteed hit) Orochi can do TWO overhead lights that are guaranteed after a guard break or a parry but that's the most hits he can do before you can parry back or block or dodge.

Don't be goobers and spread tons of misinformation. GG (git good) :D

theromanticswb
02-13-2017, 04:44 PM
After a parry the gb is guaranteed and also a light.

And I mean guaranteed you cannot counter it or block it or dodge, only if the p2p acts funny you can have problems.

It's pointless. People are HIGHLY confused about how this game works and have no idea what a guaranteed (confirm) hit is.

VanBaal42
02-13-2017, 04:57 PM
After a parry the gb is guaranteed and also a light.

And I mean guaranteed you cannot counter it or block it or dodge, only if the p2p acts funny you can have problems.

This is not true! See the video posted above. At 0:24 the warlord parry te kensei and afterwards tried to gb. But because the kensei stumbles too far away after the parry the gb is not hitting him. so not guaranteed gb after parry. even a light attack would not hit him because of the short range of hte warlord.

Chilli Maple
02-13-2017, 05:02 PM
Because other heroes are more dependant on the basics in this game and people still suck at the basics, while its easy to spam win with orochi and peacekeeper against noobs. Proof you are a noob is basicially this:
This is why they seem op.

While there is no need for name-calling, there is some truth to this...

there are counter-attackers and harassers among the assassins which means they can attack faster than other classes and move in-and-out faster than other classes... but they are 'squishy' and some players sacrifice stamina and stamina regen for more attack power which takes away their ability to sustain themselves in combat (a weakness). If you can stay out of their range

What you want to do against assassins who counter is not miss because they will make you pay for that.

Against assassins who harass is to not get flustered and intelligently use your block/parry/dodge/throw, a few good chops and they will be running for the hills.

In any scenario against an assassin its good to take away their maneuverability... don't give them a chance to pick their shots.... put them in a corner and beat the snot out of them.

New assassins will no doubt be button-bashing... don't rise to it.. just let those guys wear themselves out then, as above...

VanBaal42
02-13-2017, 05:09 PM
Kensei and Nobushi are the only character with the range to not always risk getting gb after a parry: but if they are that far its YOUR fault for not getting close, you are supposed to get close.

Also were we not talking about assassins in this thread? Neither of those 2 are assassins.

Neve said that i cant close the distance after parrying a kensei or nobushi but there is no guaranteed gb or light attack at least for the warlord.
Sure we are talking about assassins but the parry = gb / light attack assumption is clearly false!

Brave_Thunder
02-13-2017, 06:08 PM
The Gb or light after a parry is always confirmed.It misses only if you're too slow.This kind of threads are exactly why the Git gud meme was born,and with a good raison too.

Darkius-Mori
02-13-2017, 06:35 PM
Another complaint. Threads like this are pointless. To have people debate which characters are strongest after a couple of hours into a beta is laughable. Get gud, train, come back when you actually played all characters to a good level and THEN you can earn the right to say what is unbalanced or not.

But since I posted, here are some tips against assassins:
- Most are counter attackers, which means if you attack bluntly first and miss, you will die. On the other hand, if they attack first, they will usually be faster than you. Which means you need to block a bit and throw safe attacks (like normal R1s) and figure their patterns out before having a proper go at them.
- Assassins can dodge attack. Which means they will often dodge to your feints, and then you can either dodge attack or parry their own dodge attacks. This is the first type of bait you'll be using against decent players.
- Learn the timings of "most-used" assassin attacks, and your character's response to them: For example, against a peacekeeper forward dash heavy, you can...
1. Warden overhead counter,
2. Nobushi hidden stance into kick or whatever (very powerful even against a baited forward dash)
3. Conqueror heavy loaded parry (the one where you are are swinging already and releasing the key as they are attacking).

I play a Warden, and the only thing I could say about him is his zone attack is a tad too fast. It should be aligned with the overhead light imo.

People will always complain, whilst others will look at what they can do better and keep improving. You choose.

Prior_Heahmund
02-13-2017, 06:54 PM
There are times when you get behind their timing and you get hurt. However, if they make a mistake and you are using a raider (for instance) one hard power attack and they are hurting bad.

kirisute
02-13-2017, 07:13 PM
i wouldnt say any character is OP.
i would say some attacks might be and they are leading to an over reliance of tactics that do not promote what is perceived as good gameplay.
for exemplar; bleed attacks. ive lost count of the times ive watched videos and played against characters with bleed damage that will not only spam the attack but also rely on it for the kill.
You can watch videos where peacekeepers will literally bleed out opponents with a hit and run disengage style. or when the opponent has them on the ropes use bleed to end the fight; relying on bleed damage and just staying out of harms way to end the battle.

yes; its part of the game; but its a tactic that many find annoying. for right or wrong reasons.

personally id just get rid of bleed entirely!
assassins dont need it; it makes literally no sense that being hit by a dagger or najinata will make you more likely to bleed in any way shape or form than being cut by a bastard sword or an axe! and; the assassins are more than fast enough and powerful enough to win through without the need for those effects.

i know other classes can chain together charges etc but none of those lead to a lasting effect.

VanBaal42
02-13-2017, 07:43 PM
The Gb or light after a parry is always confirmed.It misses only if you're too slow.This kind of threads are exactly why the Git gud meme was born,and with a good raison too.
Get your facts straight! You are wrong about the GB!
Whatever! Assassins are easy to use and in the hand of a capable player a pain in the ***. But they are not OP!

Brave_Thunder
02-13-2017, 07:45 PM
i wouldnt say any character is OP.
i would say some attacks might be and they are leading to an over reliance of tactics that do not promote what is perceived as good gameplay.
for exemplar; bleed attacks. ive lost count of the times ive watched videos and played against characters with bleed damage that will not only spam the attack but also rely on it for the kill.
You can watch videos where peacekeepers will literally bleed out opponents with a hit and run disengage style. or when the opponent has them on the ropes use bleed to end the fight; relying on bleed damage and just staying out of harms way to end the battle.

yes; its part of the game; but its a tactic that many find annoying. for right or wrong reasons.

personally id just get rid of bleed entirely!
assassins dont need it; it makes literally no sense that being hit by a dagger or najinata will make you more likely to bleed in any way shape or form than being cut by a bastard sword or an axe! and; the assassins are more than fast enough and powerful enough to win through without the need for those effects.

i know other classes can chain together charges etc but none of those lead to a lasting effect.

If they remove the bleed,they have to convert it in instant damage:do you really want to die instantly after a Gb or you want to have a choice to fight back?

kirisute
02-13-2017, 07:51 PM
wouldnt be any different to wardens GB or any of the others.
my point is no other class has a "damage over time " mechanic which can be relied upon to end an engagement without combat.

Aidie2005
02-13-2017, 08:09 PM
I am a peace keeper player myself. I have noticed peace keepera have low hp and somewhat low stamina (stamina on a light and then heavy mixup is stamina consuming) i like to build bleeds on my target instead of dragging out the fight too long.

Peace keepers with low stam regen in a long fight will definitely struggle.

Peace keepers are all about those bleeds, Thry have a GB 3 stab attack that stacks bleed, A dash + heavy then light that applies bleed and a dagger cancel that also applies bleed.

I have a tough time against wardens on peace keepera because wardens can actually heal and remove bleed from themselves which means i have mess aroubd with light, heavy and deflects because it wastes too much time applying a bleed to a warden if i know they can just remove it.

Peace keepers just like most classes in the game have a recovery delay on certain heavy attacks, so if they miss you can easily do a nice big chunk of damage.

I enjoy playing peace keepers.

I do believe the one thing that make peace keepers is juat how much bleed they can stack on a target.

Also nobushis can actually apply DoTs that can also end engagements.

Best way to find a weakness on a hero, is to play it.

hafeatnburito
02-13-2017, 08:49 PM
To all of those who keep chiming in with these "git gud" mentalities, shut the **** up. Assassins are cheesy characters. Low skill ceiling and incredibly fast. After deploying just over 150,000 points in the faction wars, It has become blatantly obvious that the assassins are over-tuned. Some minor tweaks here and there would bring these classes in balance with the others. Currently, there are very little downsides to playing these characters. And as it stands, a highly skilled assassin will mop the floor with any of the other classes (Nobushi excluded).

Braegulfer
02-13-2017, 08:54 PM
I've only played orochi during all tests CB etc.

And you're wrong.

They are squishy as *****, revenge mode is a lot less viable.

IMO, the shielded guys are OP, and i'm talking about the potential.

Any bot i fight with a shield it's impossible to get through his defence, they can attack and block afterwards. Little openings, lots sustainability and God help you if your friend joins the fight cuz then you got one of these ***** in revenge mode.

orochi requires higher skill, not getting hit etc.

I agree to some degree...against shielded bots the only way I can consistently win (as a zerker) is to sidestep an attack, guard break, then aoe (r1+r2) them for a couple hits...or throw them off something.

Completely agree about revenge mode...we're not exactly great at blocking and revenge usually triggers in 2 on 1 where blocking is critical to survival.

Brave_Thunder
02-13-2017, 10:07 PM
To all of those who keep chiming in with these "git gud" mentalities, shut the **** up. Assassins are cheesy characters. Low skill ceiling and incredibly fast. After deploying just over 150,000 points in the faction wars, It has become blatantly obvious that the assassins are over-tuned. Some minor tweaks here and there would bring these classes in balance with the others. Currently, there are very little downsides to playing these characters. And as it stands, a highly skilled assassin will mop the floor with any of the other classes (Nobushi excluded).

So basically...stop sayng what you think because what I think is better?I'm sure that ubi could use this logic on writing the patch notes.If even they want the game to fail. I could explain why you are wrong, but seems that you have yet made your decision.Hope you git good soon.

kirisute
02-13-2017, 10:24 PM
i think something of interest is this:
playing against a bot with a peacekeeper or Nobushi its rare to see them using bleed attacks (certainly at lvl 1; which lest be honest is what the majority of players will be experiencing right now).
the Nobushi does, but the peecekeeper not so much.
the BOT is designed to give the player an all round attack pattern to learn and guard against. A BOT is designed to create a playing environment that will allow the player to learn, gain confidence and overcome adversity through challenge whilst never being unbeatable.

When you hand the same characters to a human player they discover move sets and techniques that allow for cheesing!
im happy to rock platforms and throw people from them or get kills with death from above! (god i love that move!!) dont see BOTS doing it all that often!
same with Peecekeeper stabs and bleed effects etc a human player will, by nature alone, use that technique to win because its easy! why the hell wouldnt you?

now; the issue is this; not if the characters are OP or not; but if their design, by nature of itself, leads to the player base making them OP because of a set of moves thats becomes relied upon as the "goto" method of winning.

I never really saw Warden players cheesing the GB and charge, didnt play many vikings who cheesed the headbutt or the charge carry; even the 'zerkers i fought showed a surprising array of moves instead of being over reliant upon one or two.

thats not to say those dont all have such movesets; but in my experience they never show up as often, or have such an effect upon the battle, as bleed with Nobushi and peecekeeper.
as ive said; no other warrior class has a damage over time effect that basically means you can hit and run and win without further engagement.

its not about "git gud" or even about what is OP.
its about whether, by its mechanics, a given move set is setting a precedent that effectively changes gameplay. and if the DEVS are happy for it to be used that way.

think of a gun in an FPS which allows for easy quick scoping, or similar.

in the end it doesnt matter how much we argue here; its about whether the DEVS are happy with how their game mechanics are being used within the game they created.
they might decide throwing people off ledges is to easy; maybe the catapult is too damaging (ive taken out 2 bots at once several times with it)...or whatever

Braegulfer
02-13-2017, 10:44 PM
One of the best things about this game is that I can read threads about how gimped an assassin is with tons of good arguments, then how op they are. The only part of assasains being op Ill agree with is pre-renown levels where spamming fast attacks is a huge advantage. From renown 2 up I think they are pretty easy to punish if your opponent is familiar with their movesets and then good play...variety, feints,gb counters, etc...must be employed or the assassin is toast.

KnifeInUrNeck
02-13-2017, 11:29 PM
Hahaha here we go with the OP threads and the game hasn't been released nor all the characters tried. I play Orichi exclusively in the last beta and while capable of doing damage quickly, any mistakes are costly. The problem I see a lot is the people try to fight against assassins but don't use they're range or skills. A good conqueror, nobushi, or warlord is capable of doing well against any character. Before you claim something is OP, ask yourself if they just know the game deeper. I don't just study my moves, and I do as I found some not on the move list, but I study my opponents moves...their combos, counters, and throws. Granted, only time playing gives you that experience but in time you'll see that there really isn't one OP class, there's just different styles. I win the majority of my duels not because of my character but because I know all my moves and practice my timing. I know my parries and deflects need to be better to compete against some of the better players but the majority of players just haven't played it enough. This is a game that is easy to learn but difficult to master.

tcs1991.ts
02-13-2017, 11:46 PM
I Mained a berserker in the CB and the open beta and I do not think berserkers are on the same level as Orochi or PK. I held my own. Finished OB with a 2.8 k/d and 81% win ratio but we are very week. We are the only class that does not have an unblockable attack. I feel like just giving that would balance us.

Einherjar25
02-13-2017, 11:47 PM
I think it might be a good idea to practice versus a bot.

Ive rarely seen players play as good as bots and i've actually learned a lot from bots, where i thought no parry or block was possible, a bot does it.
Bots will show you openings and etc that you didnt think were possible. XD

I started practicing VS Bot on my Conquerer. I agree that it helps someone's game alot. I did manage to guardbreak but the bot doesnt run away like players do so its hard to say. I played 40 games VS PK Bot lvl2 and at the end I was getting the hang of it. I wanted to upgrade to lvl3 but beta ended! :(

Wiccasan
02-14-2017, 12:33 AM
ubi
**** u and ur buggy games
u r piss a **** company
shouldnot buy a **** from ur company
with this laggy server and buggy games
plz dont made online games **** company
go and made single games
pigs
another loose in ur games idiots

lol I find it amusing that a guy who can barely make a sentence has the audacity to insult a group of highly skilled professionals for not making a game (something that takes years worth of time to build, or even learn how to build) good enough for him. Go make your own game you entitled little ****! Oh wait you'll need to learn how to spell words, and learn highly difficult programming scripts... so... guess you're stuck with what you're lucky enough to be given unless you think you can do better.

Also nobody is forcing you to buy or play this so go **** off and find something else to whine about. ****.

KnifeInUrNeck
02-14-2017, 03:30 AM
You are mistaken. If you think they're easy to use successfully, then I recommend you take one into a duel and see how you fair. They're dame potential is really nice but, due to their squishiness, are penalized for making mistakes. During the open beta I didn't encounter one single Orichi better than me in duels. I vaporized them in seconds. Not because I'm good but because I knew what to expect and they didn't know the character properly. Sure, you can do ol in Dominion by banking and hanging up but that's not what we're talking about here. Unless you're a different assassin, you will have more health and more chances to take advantage of mistakes. This game requires patience, skill, and experience. People will develope at different speeds but before you say a hero is OP, you should probably learn the game more. Everyone has a weakness and if you don't see that, you haven't been looking long or hard enough.

feuerundblut
02-14-2017, 03:46 AM
Assassins seem OP at the beginning because their move set is fast but once heroes get gear and the player knows how to play better, they are just another hero to fight. As well said above, learn how to play your character and try the others to see where their weaknesses lie. They all have some.