PDA

View Full Version : Wardens are overpowered



Voscrow
02-09-2017, 11:30 PM
I believe the wardens are overpowered given that they have a moveset that allows them to attack as fast as an assassin a reasonable hp pool that allows them to shrug off most heavy attacks and what seems to be tracking even when the opponent is dodging in a certain direction in comparison to most other classes theres not a single downside to playing warden you have the effectiveness of both a heavy hitter and an assassin in one with the only difference being you can't do a fancy combo like the assassin in the case that someone screws up horribly

rcwd
02-09-2017, 11:46 PM
I believe the wardens are overpowered given that they have a moveset that allows them to attack as fast as an assassin a reasonable hp pool that allows them to shrug off most heavy attacks and what seems to be tracking even when the opponent is dodging in a certain direction in comparison to most other classes theres not a single downside to playing warden you have the effectiveness of both a heavy hitter and an assassin in one with the only difference being you can't do a fancy combo like the assassin in the case that someone screws up horribly

Surprised to see a "this is op" for something thats not nobu or pk. Unfortunately, you're wrong, the warden isn't as fast as the assassins. Seems like you just don't know their move set and can't play against them.

ThePollie
02-10-2017, 12:01 AM
Eh... I don't know. I feel Wardens are fairly "balanced", if a tad lackluster. Our specials aren't that great, and honestly fail outright against a competent player.

Vakris_One
02-10-2017, 12:25 AM
The Wardens are actually the most average class in my opinion. They have no particular tricks up their sleeves to get them out of a pinch like pretty much all of the other classes. All the Wardens have to rely on is a firm grasp on the basics and increased damage from their heavies. They have no dodge hits like the Samurai, nor do they tank or have damage negating specials like the Shugoki and Warlord and their speed is average across the board - not too slow but not fast like assassins.

The Wardens actually take the most skill to win duels against other classes with because they rely on maintaining a patient, calm and sturdy approach.

ThePollie
02-10-2017, 12:30 AM
Which is why I doubt we'll see many at high-end gameplay. It takes five minutes to learn their kit and figure out how to counter it, because it's all just basic stuff. Even their special stuff is easy to get around. Dodge the shoulder-charge and don't let him bait you into attacking Top if you can't ensure a hit. Bam, done.

Lord_Binz
02-10-2017, 01:06 AM
Ah yes, the old "I died to this therefore it must be overpowered" thread.

Try practicing against them more often, you will find that they are about average in terms of character power.

ThePollie
02-10-2017, 01:19 AM
I feel it's pretty unfairly slanted. Even if you parry, you can rarely punish them for it, while you yourself are hammered ruthlessly each time. You can't get close enough to Guard-break without it being so obvious they'd never fall for it. So, what's that really leave?

I guess you could parry until they are exhausted and spam shoulder-changes into light attacks. Just hope they are stupid enough to not manage their stamina.

Sauronbaine
02-10-2017, 01:25 AM
Im actually beginning to regret maining the Warden in the open beta. He;s just lackluster. He has nothing special for him. Unblockable light attack after a counter? situational. Its just not fun playing him anymore... I mean when I do win, it feels like an accomplishment but the other vanguards do the same as him but with better tricks.

About an hour or two into the open beta, I spent the money on his execution. its not a bad execution at all.... but now im regretting it. Wish I just stuck with the raider.

ThePollie
02-10-2017, 01:29 AM
The Warden excels at punishing certain mistakes (which higher-end players make few of) and poor reflexes or a refusal to adapt (which, again, higher-end players will be better).

It'd be nice if the Shoulder-charge knocked down exhausted enemies and stunned for longer if they struck a wall, but my biggest issue is the awkward controls with KB&M. Often times I find the combo of keys just wiffing a guard-break, rather than charging.

Sauronbaine
02-10-2017, 01:33 AM
The Warden excels at punishing certain mistakes (which higher-end players make few of) and poor reflexes or a refusal to adapt (which, again, higher-end players will be better).

It'd be nice if the Shoulder-charge knocked down exhausted enemies and stunned for longer if they struck a wall, but my biggest issue is the awkward controls with KB&M. Often times I find the combo of keys just wiffing a guard-break, rather than charging.



Thats not really a good thing to excel at. He needs something else added to his kit :/

Coccyx420
02-10-2017, 01:36 AM
Surprised to see a "this is op" for something thats not nobu or pk. Unfortunately, you're wrong, the warden isn't as fast as the assassins. Seems like you just don't know their move set and can't play against them.

so what are you saying? that assassins are the most op?

Idk...shield bearers are pretty strong...honestly i think most are pretty balanced....just some require better reaction speeds vs assassins since they can attack multiple sides followed by a shield break quickly

ThePollie
02-10-2017, 01:52 AM
Thats not really a good thing to excel at. He needs something else added to his kit :/

Yeah.. I agree. His strength is meant to be a lack of weakness, but the lack of speed has him crushed in fights against assassins and zoners like Nobushi, and his lack of raw staying power has the tankier heroes bulldozing him.

I think he should have more technical, special abilities to even him out, or at least improve what he has. Right now, he's incredibly basic and relies on his enemies to get his specials in. They never attack Top? Crushing Counterstrike isn't a factor. They're aware of the charge? Now that's out too.

Sauronbaine
02-10-2017, 01:55 AM
Yeah.. I agree. His strength is meant to be a lack of weakness, but the lack of speed has him crushed in fights against assassins and zoners like Nobushi, and his lack of raw staying power has the tankier heroes bulldozing him.

I think he should have more technical, special abilities to even him out, or at least improve what he has. Right now, he's incredibly basic and relies on his enemies to get his specials in. They never attack Top? Crushing Counterstrike isn't a factor. They're aware of the charge? Now that's out too.


I say increase his HP and Armor, leave his other stats alone.

ThePollie
02-10-2017, 01:57 AM
Honestly, that probably won't fix it. He'll still get out-maneuvered by assassins, heavily zoned by Nobushi, and simply slugged out by the tankier heroes.

He might last a little longer, but that's about it. His flaws still ensure they'll beat him down, it'll just take a little longer than before.

Sauronbaine
02-10-2017, 02:03 AM
Honestly, that probably won't fix it. He'll still get out-maneuvered by assassins, heavily zoned by Nobushi, and simply slugged out by the tankier heroes.

He might last a little longer, but that's about it. His flaws still ensure they'll beat him down, it'll just take a little longer than before.

There isn't much you can do for him. His base design makes him weaker than other classes.

Toast_Addict
02-10-2017, 10:00 AM
He's really nice to have in domination tho. I play him in small maps when my teammates all choose assassins and hang out a B.

His passive is actually pretty good in domination, but I never really prefer him in duels.

Aarpian2
02-10-2017, 10:10 AM
The Warden is largely agreed to be one of the strongest characters in the game actually.
Keeping your guard in top stance while not actively blocking or parrying an attack allows you to put an obscene amount of pressure on your opponent through the threat of your top lights (which are extremely quick) and your zone attack, which comes out from your right side. That means the opponent has to be paying very very close attention if they hope to stop either one, and it's very common even against the best players to get one of these attacks through a defence. This is especially threatening against assassins as they don't have an active guard and the zone attack has fantastic tracking.

His top light counterstrike and the threat of it does serious harm to the offensive hopes of a lot of classes, and means trying to parry bait him in the top stance is extremely risky.

His light > shoulder charge repeater is very strong, netting you almost a heavy's worth of damage if you do the side-lights, and many characters are forced into a 50-50 to escape from it by dodging (since you can cancel your shoulder charge into guard break to catch the dodgers).

On top of that he has decent base stats, his heavies do very good damage (with his overhead heavy off a wall stun being particularly lethal), and his feints are probably the most convincing due to how late you can do them.

Elluem
02-12-2017, 05:49 AM
His light > shoulder charge repeater is very strong, netting you almost a heavy's worth of damage if you do the side-lights, and many characters are forced into a 50-50 to escape from it by dodging (since you can cancel your shoulder charge into guard break to catch the dodgers).

Unless they're an assassin or Kensei. They can all do dodge attacks which seem to push away guard breaks and hit them.. unless I'm mistaken?

Knight_Gregor
02-12-2017, 09:50 AM
I will agree that only the dashing attacks from the wardens (the ones where they float forward 12 feet without their feet moving) are much quicker than the assassins light attacks or even deflects. Network issues still play too much of a role to blame any one class though.

CoyoteXStarrk
02-12-2017, 10:08 AM
No.


The only two OP things in this game is The PK and the Nobu

TheDoctor-82
02-12-2017, 10:44 AM
The warden is utterly terrible. No moves, slow, no mobility, does no damage. Easily one of the worst classes in the game along with the Kensai for many of the same reasons.

Biocoast
02-12-2017, 11:39 AM
The Warden is largely agreed to be one of the strongest characters in the game actually.
Keeping your guard in top stance while not actively blocking or parrying an attack allows you to put an obscene amount of pressure on your opponent through the threat of your top lights (which are extremely quick) and your zone attack, which comes out from your right side. That means the opponent has to be paying very very close attention if they hope to stop either one, and it's very common even against the best players to get one of these attacks through a defence. This is especially threatening against assassins as they don't have an active guard and the zone attack has fantastic tracking.

His top light counterstrike and the threat of it does serious harm to the offensive hopes of a lot of classes, and means trying to parry bait him in the top stance is extremely risky.

His light > shoulder charge repeater is very strong, netting you almost a heavy's worth of damage if you do the side-lights, and many characters are forced into a 50-50 to escape from it by dodging (since you can cancel your shoulder charge into guard break to catch the dodgers).

On top of that he has decent base stats, his heavies do very good damage (with his overhead heavy off a wall stun being particularly lethal), and his feints are probably the most convincing due to how late you can do them.

This, and also noticed that you cant even punish a shoulder charge that he misses really, since he can gaurd before you could even put a light attack on him.

DaimyoMidas
02-12-2017, 01:48 PM
Okay so I hate playing as the warden, he feels sluggish has no real interesting move set. But damn does a really good warden ever know how to put on the pressure. He will take ur *** so hard you will be walking limp for days. But these are the warden only mains. The ones that have been practicing the art of the *** grab for years, and mastered the skill of penetrating ur ***. Other than that pretty lackluster, very basic. But I think for masters there is defo a potential for great skillfull usage.

xRoguE-WolFx
02-12-2017, 02:05 PM
I believe the wardens are overpowered given that they have a moveset that allows them to attack as fast as an assassin a reasonable hp pool that allows them to shrug off most heavy attacks and what seems to be tracking even when the opponent is dodging in a certain direction in comparison to most other classes theres not a single downside to playing warden you have the effectiveness of both a heavy hitter and an assassin in one with the only difference being you can't do a fancy combo like the assassin in the case that someone screws up horribly

The Warden is best dueling class in the game. He doesn't have a lot of flash but what he does have is A the best AOE attack in the game and B free double hit mechanic which if used probably is the most op mechanic in the game second being bleeds. Don't believe me go test your self. Go in to a custom match vs a lvl 3 orochi bot with any hero and u will most likely lose. Then try it with the warden all u have to do is keep your distance, use your aoe to keep him at bay then if he gets close destroy him with the double light hit mechanic. If played right warden is unbeatable period. The free double hit mechanic needs to be removed same with bleeds, those two mechanic are game changers in a duel of skilled opponents. Nobushi is tough for warden at first but once u get blocking her down a little she aint ****.

Waynedetta40k
02-12-2017, 02:11 PM
The Warden is best dueling class in the game. He doesn't have a lot of flash but what he does have is A the best AOE attack in the game and B free double hit mechanic which if used probably is the most op mechanic in the game second being bleeds. Don't believe me go test your self. Go in to a custom match vs a lvl 3 orochi bot with any hero and u will most likely lose. Then try it with the warden all u have to do is keep your distance, use your aoe to keep him at bay then if he gets close destroy him with the double light hit mechanic. If played right warden is unbeatable period. The free double hit mechanic needs to be removed same with bleeds, those two mechanic are game changers in a duel of skilled opponents. Nobushi is tough for warden at first but once u get blocking her down a little she aint ****.

The AOE attack always comes from the same side the bot can not consider this just like he can not adapt to anything you do like for example faint -> grab -> ledge which works always .

MathiasCB
02-12-2017, 02:13 PM
Top lights and zone attacks, welcome to the high tier wardens.

Dukat
02-12-2017, 02:30 PM
I think here is no OP characters in this game, pls understand this, they are just different ;]. If u cant win with some char. try him and kick everybody asses - if u can. Game is hard to play and u must just learn. That my position in all those OP topics. Game need maybe little little changes, but not in that way u write all the time.