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CaptainGelo
04-03-2004, 09:39 AM
dunno if any1 posted it be4..

can we have comlex DM of the pilot? , I mean if u get hit u dont get killed or wounded messege, but if u get hit in leg, u wont be able to use rudder and if u dont land soon, u'll die cuz of blod loss, something like that, and I think pilots is able to take 2much G be4 blackouting....

http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v68/wolf4ever/Animation3.gif

CaptainGelo
04-03-2004, 09:39 AM
dunno if any1 posted it be4..

can we have comlex DM of the pilot? , I mean if u get hit u dont get killed or wounded messege, but if u get hit in leg, u wont be able to use rudder and if u dont land soon, u'll die cuz of blod loss, something like that, and I think pilots is able to take 2much G be4 blackouting....

http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v68/wolf4ever/Animation3.gif

clint-ruin
04-03-2004, 11:06 AM
One of the better, but rarer damage states, is having the pilot listed as "heavily wounded". Screen turns very very deep red and all control inputs become about 1/4 of what they once were. Usually it's a matter of time before you bleed to death when you see that message.

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crazyivan1970
04-03-2004, 11:41 AM
From what i read in memoirs of pilots... wounds caused by particles of exploded shells is the only ones that give you a chance of survival... i can imagine 50 cal bullets or 20mm shells hitting humans body.... remember Saving Privat Ryan? 20mm gun and those soldiers on the german tank, that`s how i`m picturing it in my mind... Anything above 30 cal hitting such a frigile subject will take body parts of IMO...

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Gen_Strike
04-04-2004, 10:15 AM
I would think anything beyond the slightest shrapnel wound would make you incapable of flying in a very short time in the majority of occurances.
Doubt it would be worth modelling anything beyond what we have, survivors on the ground often were incapacitated or unconcious but were saved because they could be carted off, theres no such opportunity in a fighter.
If the bomber aspect of the sim were to be updated however (ie a proper crew roster, not the fighter roster the bombers currently get), things might be different!

zugfuhrer
04-05-2004, 02:25 AM
A slight not fatal wound, set you in a chock and you dont notice that you are hit. Like a small calibre bullit in the hand.
A man can walk on his broken leg for some minutes.
After a while the chock sets in, you starts to tremble and is most likly not able to fly well.

After some more minutes the wounded part will become stiff.
According to the pilot damage model, I would be happy if a AI-pilot/reargunner would be out of action with two hits with AP/HE in the chest.

SeaFireLIV
04-05-2004, 07:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by clint-ruin:
One of the better, but rarer damage states, is having the pilot listed as "heavily wounded". Screen turns very very deep red and all control inputs become about 1/4 of what they once were. Usually it's a matter of time before you bleed to death when you see that message.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep. Clint-Ruin`s right on that one. Still, a little more DM for the pilot: Head, arms, chest, Legs, would be nice. Not a bad idea. Also, a slight groan or some such noise could act as an audible indication that you`ve been hit.

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clint-ruin
04-05-2004, 07:21 AM
Yeah, I wish it would crop up more often, especially from frag damage.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

JaBo_HH--Gotcha
04-05-2004, 07:28 AM
I think it's unnecessary. What's next ?

Messages on the screen like

Pilot_a MK108 Headsymbol Pilot_b for simulating headshots ?

honestly, the way it's now maybe harsh sometimes but whaddyay axpect when a 13mm high velocity/transformed (by piercing the hull) decides to make a tour through your body.

I'm always happy like hell when I only get wounded and manage to land with a dark-red screen.

I think Crazy_ivan is right on this one and it's a rather useless addon...

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BlackSqn81
04-05-2004, 02:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by zugfuhrer:
A slight not fatal wound, set you in a chock and you dont notice that you are hit. Like a small calibre bullit in the hand.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats not quite correct, a slight wound doesnt create a chock (that would be fatal, because EVERY chock ends fatal if you dont get medical help) the reason why it is possible not to realize you´re hit is that a high-speed bullit/shell-fragment causes a sort off "overflow"-error in the pain-sensitive nerves, so it just feels numb (you can test this yourself, just hit your thumb very hard with a hammer ;-) )

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>A man can walk on his broken leg for some minutes.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The reason for this is that "fear is stronger then pain", means if you are in danger loosing your live your body kicks so much adrenaline and endorphines(your own morphine, the stuff that causes the "runners high") out you dont feel any pain at all.

I´ve seen a guy who chopped off half his arm w a chainsaw in the middle of a wood drive his tractor for 2km to the next road where sb could help him, parc it on the side and then he collapsed, i have seen a guy walk on his broken leg for 15 mins till he reached a phone to call for help, on the other side you can see guys collaps after cutting their fingers at breakfast...thats because there is no danger, so no need for adrenaline/endorphine..


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>After a while the chock sets in, you starts to tremble and is most likly not able to fly well.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

that depends on you loss of blood, minor wounds dont cause choc for a long time (like a 0.303 bullit passing your hand) the major problem is one needs 2 hands to fly/land a plane..

The other problem apart the bloodloss is that there isnt any adrenaline left to help you and no more cortisol so you feel very exhausted, tired and dont care very much what happens (no good if you are still flying)....some of you may have experienced this e.g. after a roadcrash where you wherent hurt but are done anyway or a "nearmiss"

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
According to the pilot damage model, I would be happy if a AI-pilot/reargunner would be out of action with two hits with AP/HE in the chest.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats for sure a moment where no adrenaline helps http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif , good thing it wont hurt...

S!

Gen_Strike
04-05-2004, 02:39 PM
Does the wounded, heavily wounded status affect AI gunners accuracy or stop them firing?, might be nice, if AI crew were a more involved part of the new sim to have crew go unconcious but survive to rejoin crew later

zugfuhrer
04-05-2004, 04:11 PM
I dont mean fatal chock because of loss of blood or great trauma.
Take for example a dogbite in the arm. At firs you dont feel the pain so much, it dont bleed so much because of the impact. When that initial phase is over it starts to bleed and hurt, and you start to shiver, tremble.
That is the kind of shock I am talking about

p1ngu666
04-05-2004, 08:43 PM
endomorphine is partly why ppl cut themselves. its what makes it feel good, to a certain amount
(varies per person)

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Gen_Strike
04-06-2004, 09:11 PM
I played a game a few years back called deus (not deus ex).
It was a fps type game but it had a more complex damage model, you could die in so many ways, the people who made it put in shock, infections, broken limbs etc. pity they didnt spend any time on the rest of the game, it turned out quite dull.
My point is, a simple damage model is fine if it gives a development team more time to work on plane damage models, something i believe to be far more important, if there was slight wounds which affect flying, heavy wounds which heavily affect flying ability and incapacitation (not useful on single seaters but for bombers, a crewman could be taken out but not killed), if that one extra state could be added id be happy, best not to ask for too much or we might get it to the detriment of everything else

BerkshireHunt
04-07-2004, 08:48 AM
Re the pilot I like the idea of a more complex damage model. It's never made sense to me that we have a complex damage model for the plane but not the pilot- given that taken together they represent a fighting whole. And the fighting efficiency of each directly affects the other.

To discuss graphics: I don't see why in future we shouldn't have a series of damage model layers for the pilot- just as we do for the plane. A discreet blood spot or two indicating the 'damage' to a certain area- left side/right side/top half/lower half would suffice.

Extending the idea I'd like to see a more expressive pilot face- one which changes with the situation. At the moment the pilot's placid look under all circumstances is unreal- as though he is an emotionless machine. So what about a series of facial skins which change as the pilot's predicament changes?
One signifying 'fear' (wide eyed or wincing when being shot at or diving towards the ground); another signifying 'anger' (a grimly determined look or perhaps a snarl when on the attack); one for 'shock' (open mouthed at a near miss or an explosion); one for the satisfaction of 'victory' (a smile). Imagine shooting down a guy who's still smiling from having just shot down your buddy (I want it).
Most importantly, a 'death mask' (shut eyes and expressionless) could be linked to the head lolling like a football in a bag ie affected by G- instead of what we have right now- instant rigor mortis. This would of course be triggered by the pilot damage model.

These facial skins could all be deployed by the game engine dependent on the tactical situation- imagine the screenshots which would follow; there's a lot of fun to be had here. Note that I'm not suggesting full pilot animation- just different facial expressions to suit the moment and the special case death-head.
Someone will be the first to do it in a flight sim, I'm sure- what about it, Oleg?

[This message was edited by BerkshireHunt on Wed April 07 2004 at 10:10 AM.]