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XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 05:32 AM
Hawker's Second Generation of Violent Winds:
A Brief History of the Typhoon and Tempest
by Jason Long
The Typhoon and Tempest had their genesis in a 1937 Air Ministry requirement for a new generation of fighters that would have a maximum level speed of no less than 400 mph. The only way to achieve that incredible speed (which wasn't exceeded until 1939) was to use 3 new engines under development that promised twice as power as the Merlin that powered the Spitfire and Hurricane. These engines were the Rolls-Royce Vulture, a liquid-cooled 24-cylinder X-type based on a pair of V-12 Peregrines fastened together back-to-back, the Bristol Centaurus, an 18-cylinder sleeve-valve radial, and the Napier Sabre, a liquid-cooled sleeve-valve 24-cylinder H-type that resembled a pair of flat twelves bolted together. The engines were expected to have horsepower per pound ratios of 0.79, 0.95, and 1.12 respectively, but the development of the latter two was expected to be prolonged as their designs pushed the "state of the art". As the lightest of these was estimated to have a weight at least 60% greater than that of the Merlin it was obvious that any fighter using them would be rather substantial in comparison with the current generation. Hawker designed a version of their submission for each of the engines, the Vulture-powered model was the Tornado, that using the Centaurus was the Tempest and the Typhoon used the Sabre.
The Air Ministry demanded a weight of firepower some 50% greater than the current generation, but didn't specify the exact armament. Hawker took care to be able to accommodate 20mm cannon with their bulky ammunition drums or a dozen .303 Brownings. Unfortunately the resulting thick wing fatally compromised the Typhoon's high-altitude performance.

The Tornado was the first to fly in October 1939 as its Vulture was more mature than its competitors. The Typhoon followed in February 1940, but the former was canceled when the Vulture-powered Manchester heavy bomber was modified to carry 4 Merlins as the Lancaster since Avro was dissatisfied with the performance and reliability of its engines. Rolls-Royce was hard-pressed to cure its problems, which really weren't all that severe, as it had quite enough to do already with the many improvements of the Merlin and the development of the Griffin engine.

One production Tornado was completed before it was canceled in the early summer of 1941. It had a maximum speed of 402 mph (647 kph) at 21,800 feet (6645 m) and a time to 20,000 feet (6090 m) of 6.9 minutes.

The second prototype Typhoon wasn't delivered until May '41, over a year after the first. The Air Ministry had been insistent that nothing could interfere with the delivery of Hurricanes during 1940 and 1941, understandably so, but that attitude proved extremely short-sighted as Hawker paid little attention to the Typhoon under Ministry pressure. It was supposed to build 15 pre-production aircraft before Gloster began series production to work out the inevitable bugs, but these aircraft were delivered after production deliveries had already commenced! Hawker should have been able to finish the second prototype and the 15 pre-production aircraft in 1940 with minimal impact on Hurricane deliveries.

Gloster began delivery of the first production Typhoons to 56 Squadron in September 1941, but quite a few bugs still had to be worked out. Most of these involved the engine and much time was required to sort out all the problems. Other problems were the accumulation of engine fumes in the cockpit and a tendency for the tail to come off that was eventually traced to a failure of the elevator mass balance bracket. These early aircraft were armed with a dozen .303 caliber Browning machine-guns and were designated Typhoon IA. All aircraft fitted with 4x 20mm cannon were designated as Typhoon IB.

The Typhoon's first large-scale combat over Dieppe further proved that its rearward vision was wholly inadequate as they had been bounced from above and behind three times in the day's flights for the loss of two aircraft, one of which fell to a Canadian Spitfire IX! This was to be problematic as the unusual "car door" design of the cockpit meant that the fuselage structure had to be seriously reworked to incorporate a teardrop sliding canopy and the the necessary modifications of the jigs took quite a while. Easier by far were the substitution of a four-bladed propeller for the original three blade and fairings to enclose the 20mm cannon barrels. These together raised the top speed by about 16 mph (26 kph).

The premature introduction into service and the consequent prolonged and troubled working-up period during most of 1942 provided the Spitfire lobby with much ammunition in their campaign for cancellation of the Typhoon, but its salvation lay in its inability to perform at high altitude when compared to the Spitfire IX as that aircraft had the reverse problem; it couldn't perform well at low altitudes until its engine was later modified for low-altitude combat! The Typhoon's load-carrying ability was not yet proven when the decision was to continue it in production though this would later prove to be its most important role.

As a side note Typhoon partisans might have been forgiven thinking that the Spitfire lobby was taking things a bit far when a number of Typhoons were shot down by Spitfire pilots who confused it with marauding Fw 190 fighter-bombers before they learned to differentiate between the radial-engined German fighter and the inline-engined Typhoon with its massive chin radiator.

Hawker began the design of an entirely new thin wing in 1940 to remedy the Typhoon's main fault, but this was renamed Tempest for some reason since the Centaurus engine originally planned for the Tempest was still in development.

A number of variants were planned for the Tempest, but only one attained service during the war. That was the low-risk Tempest V that used the same engine and massive chin radiator as the Typhoon. The thin wing greatly improved high-altitude performance and had the unexpected benefit of increasing the roll rate from 54 to 80 degrees per second.

The first squadron became operational on the Tempest V in April 1944 though only a few operations were flown over France before the Germans began launching V-1s at England in June. The Tempests were retained in the UK to counter the threat until their transfer to Belgium in September. By the time of their arrival the Luftwaffe was only occasionally seen and they spent most of their time flying ground attack missions which denied them the fame that the Tempest's qualities deserved.

The Tempest I was to have a more advanced version of the Sabre as well as the chin-mounted cooling system moved to the wing roots. The Sabre IV required a lot of development work to be cleared for service use, which wasn't regarded as worthwhile, but the clean and elegant wing root cooling system installation raised the maximum speed by 21 mph (34 kph) over the chin mounting when comparative trials were flown. Surely the wing root system could have been incorporated in the Tempest V without much in the way of delays, but Hawker was under much pressure to get the "thin-wing Typhoon" out the door as soon as possible so as to be able to compete with the latest German fighters.

The Tempest spawned a special model for service in the desert that drew upon the experience with the Tempest I. The Tempest VI incorporated part of the earlier design's cooling system since the necessary tropical filter and enlarged radiator displaced the oil cooler from its normal chin position to the right wing root. Coupled with a more powerful Sabre V engine it was measured at 462 mph (743 kph) on one occasion. But the end of the war and the debate over Britain's role in the Middle East delayed its deployment until the very end of 1946. It was out of squadron service by the end of 1949.

The Tempest II used the Centaurus radial engine originally intended for the Tempest series. Its cooling system owed much to the Fw 190 since the pilot of one had mistaken the Bristol Channel for the English Channel and landed his fighter at a British airfield! Hawker borrowed much from the 190's sleek engine installation which had taken much effort by the Germans before it worked properly.

It was set to go to the Far East with Tiger Force until forestalled by the use of the atomic bomb. It was, however, the only version see post-war combat in the early stages of the Malayan Insurgency. 33 Squadron gave up its last Tempests in 1951 in exchange for the de Havilland Hornet which was better suited for the long-duration mission over heavy jungle with its two Merlins.

The Tempest II equipped both the Pakistani and Indian Air Forces, but Tempest never fired at Tempest as it had long since retired before the first major shooting war between them began.

Performance Data

Late-model Typhoon 1B Tempest 5
Engine 2200 hp Sabre IIB 2260 Sabre IIC
Empty Weight 9800 lbs (4445 kg) 9250 lbs (4196 kg)
Loaded Weight 13,980 lbs (6341 kg) 13,640 lbs (6187 kg)
Speed (mph/kph) 422 at 12,500 ft/680 at 3810 m 442 at 20,500 ft/ 710 at 6250 m
Time to height (min.) 3.2 to 12,500 ft/3810 m 6.1 to 20,500 ft/6250 m
Range (miles/km) 680/1090 820/1320
Armament 4x 20mm cannon 4x 20mm cannon
Bombload (lbs/kg) 2000/907 2000/907





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XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 05:32 AM
Hawker's Second Generation of Violent Winds:
A Brief History of the Typhoon and Tempest
by Jason Long
The Typhoon and Tempest had their genesis in a 1937 Air Ministry requirement for a new generation of fighters that would have a maximum level speed of no less than 400 mph. The only way to achieve that incredible speed (which wasn't exceeded until 1939) was to use 3 new engines under development that promised twice as power as the Merlin that powered the Spitfire and Hurricane. These engines were the Rolls-Royce Vulture, a liquid-cooled 24-cylinder X-type based on a pair of V-12 Peregrines fastened together back-to-back, the Bristol Centaurus, an 18-cylinder sleeve-valve radial, and the Napier Sabre, a liquid-cooled sleeve-valve 24-cylinder H-type that resembled a pair of flat twelves bolted together. The engines were expected to have horsepower per pound ratios of 0.79, 0.95, and 1.12 respectively, but the development of the latter two was expected to be prolonged as their designs pushed the "state of the art". As the lightest of these was estimated to have a weight at least 60% greater than that of the Merlin it was obvious that any fighter using them would be rather substantial in comparison with the current generation. Hawker designed a version of their submission for each of the engines, the Vulture-powered model was the Tornado, that using the Centaurus was the Tempest and the Typhoon used the Sabre.
The Air Ministry demanded a weight of firepower some 50% greater than the current generation, but didn't specify the exact armament. Hawker took care to be able to accommodate 20mm cannon with their bulky ammunition drums or a dozen .303 Brownings. Unfortunately the resulting thick wing fatally compromised the Typhoon's high-altitude performance.

The Tornado was the first to fly in October 1939 as its Vulture was more mature than its competitors. The Typhoon followed in February 1940, but the former was canceled when the Vulture-powered Manchester heavy bomber was modified to carry 4 Merlins as the Lancaster since Avro was dissatisfied with the performance and reliability of its engines. Rolls-Royce was hard-pressed to cure its problems, which really weren't all that severe, as it had quite enough to do already with the many improvements of the Merlin and the development of the Griffin engine.

One production Tornado was completed before it was canceled in the early summer of 1941. It had a maximum speed of 402 mph (647 kph) at 21,800 feet (6645 m) and a time to 20,000 feet (6090 m) of 6.9 minutes.

The second prototype Typhoon wasn't delivered until May '41, over a year after the first. The Air Ministry had been insistent that nothing could interfere with the delivery of Hurricanes during 1940 and 1941, understandably so, but that attitude proved extremely short-sighted as Hawker paid little attention to the Typhoon under Ministry pressure. It was supposed to build 15 pre-production aircraft before Gloster began series production to work out the inevitable bugs, but these aircraft were delivered after production deliveries had already commenced! Hawker should have been able to finish the second prototype and the 15 pre-production aircraft in 1940 with minimal impact on Hurricane deliveries.

Gloster began delivery of the first production Typhoons to 56 Squadron in September 1941, but quite a few bugs still had to be worked out. Most of these involved the engine and much time was required to sort out all the problems. Other problems were the accumulation of engine fumes in the cockpit and a tendency for the tail to come off that was eventually traced to a failure of the elevator mass balance bracket. These early aircraft were armed with a dozen .303 caliber Browning machine-guns and were designated Typhoon IA. All aircraft fitted with 4x 20mm cannon were designated as Typhoon IB.

The Typhoon's first large-scale combat over Dieppe further proved that its rearward vision was wholly inadequate as they had been bounced from above and behind three times in the day's flights for the loss of two aircraft, one of which fell to a Canadian Spitfire IX! This was to be problematic as the unusual "car door" design of the cockpit meant that the fuselage structure had to be seriously reworked to incorporate a teardrop sliding canopy and the the necessary modifications of the jigs took quite a while. Easier by far were the substitution of a four-bladed propeller for the original three blade and fairings to enclose the 20mm cannon barrels. These together raised the top speed by about 16 mph (26 kph).

The premature introduction into service and the consequent prolonged and troubled working-up period during most of 1942 provided the Spitfire lobby with much ammunition in their campaign for cancellation of the Typhoon, but its salvation lay in its inability to perform at high altitude when compared to the Spitfire IX as that aircraft had the reverse problem; it couldn't perform well at low altitudes until its engine was later modified for low-altitude combat! The Typhoon's load-carrying ability was not yet proven when the decision was to continue it in production though this would later prove to be its most important role.

As a side note Typhoon partisans might have been forgiven thinking that the Spitfire lobby was taking things a bit far when a number of Typhoons were shot down by Spitfire pilots who confused it with marauding Fw 190 fighter-bombers before they learned to differentiate between the radial-engined German fighter and the inline-engined Typhoon with its massive chin radiator.

Hawker began the design of an entirely new thin wing in 1940 to remedy the Typhoon's main fault, but this was renamed Tempest for some reason since the Centaurus engine originally planned for the Tempest was still in development.

A number of variants were planned for the Tempest, but only one attained service during the war. That was the low-risk Tempest V that used the same engine and massive chin radiator as the Typhoon. The thin wing greatly improved high-altitude performance and had the unexpected benefit of increasing the roll rate from 54 to 80 degrees per second.

The first squadron became operational on the Tempest V in April 1944 though only a few operations were flown over France before the Germans began launching V-1s at England in June. The Tempests were retained in the UK to counter the threat until their transfer to Belgium in September. By the time of their arrival the Luftwaffe was only occasionally seen and they spent most of their time flying ground attack missions which denied them the fame that the Tempest's qualities deserved.

The Tempest I was to have a more advanced version of the Sabre as well as the chin-mounted cooling system moved to the wing roots. The Sabre IV required a lot of development work to be cleared for service use, which wasn't regarded as worthwhile, but the clean and elegant wing root cooling system installation raised the maximum speed by 21 mph (34 kph) over the chin mounting when comparative trials were flown. Surely the wing root system could have been incorporated in the Tempest V without much in the way of delays, but Hawker was under much pressure to get the "thin-wing Typhoon" out the door as soon as possible so as to be able to compete with the latest German fighters.

The Tempest spawned a special model for service in the desert that drew upon the experience with the Tempest I. The Tempest VI incorporated part of the earlier design's cooling system since the necessary tropical filter and enlarged radiator displaced the oil cooler from its normal chin position to the right wing root. Coupled with a more powerful Sabre V engine it was measured at 462 mph (743 kph) on one occasion. But the end of the war and the debate over Britain's role in the Middle East delayed its deployment until the very end of 1946. It was out of squadron service by the end of 1949.

The Tempest II used the Centaurus radial engine originally intended for the Tempest series. Its cooling system owed much to the Fw 190 since the pilot of one had mistaken the Bristol Channel for the English Channel and landed his fighter at a British airfield! Hawker borrowed much from the 190's sleek engine installation which had taken much effort by the Germans before it worked properly.

It was set to go to the Far East with Tiger Force until forestalled by the use of the atomic bomb. It was, however, the only version see post-war combat in the early stages of the Malayan Insurgency. 33 Squadron gave up its last Tempests in 1951 in exchange for the de Havilland Hornet which was better suited for the long-duration mission over heavy jungle with its two Merlins.

The Tempest II equipped both the Pakistani and Indian Air Forces, but Tempest never fired at Tempest as it had long since retired before the first major shooting war between them began.

Performance Data

Late-model Typhoon 1B Tempest 5
Engine 2200 hp Sabre IIB 2260 Sabre IIC
Empty Weight 9800 lbs (4445 kg) 9250 lbs (4196 kg)
Loaded Weight 13,980 lbs (6341 kg) 13,640 lbs (6187 kg)
Speed (mph/kph) 422 at 12,500 ft/680 at 3810 m 442 at 20,500 ft/ 710 at 6250 m
Time to height (min.) 3.2 to 12,500 ft/3810 m 6.1 to 20,500 ft/6250 m
Range (miles/km) 680/1090 820/1320
Armament 4x 20mm cannon 4x 20mm cannon
Bombload (lbs/kg) 2000/907 2000/907





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adlabs6
10-22-2003, 06:03 AM
Thanks Bearcat, all these articles are interesting to read. I was going to comment to that effect when I noticed that your first thread had been locked as I clicked! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 06:37 AM
good read , thx bear.

http://www.bayern.de/Layout/wappen.gif

Bavaria is one of the oldest European states.
It dates back to about 500 A.D., when the Roman Empire was overcome by the onslaught of Germanic tribes. According to a widespread theory, the Bavarian tribe had descended from the Romans who remained in the country, the original Celtic population and the Germanic invaders.

Bavarian History : http://www.bayern.de/Bayern/Information/geschichteE.html#kap0

XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 06:46 AM
Thank you very much sir. A great read. I was not able to post in that last thread before it was locked but you did NOT deserve the treatment "they"(you know who I'm referring to)gave you. Hopefully,they're gone for good(banned?). Anyway,thanks for your awesome contributions to this community./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 07:10 AM
btw. i have a book, called "Kampfgeschwader55 "
and there is a , in my eyes , good story about an Heinkel 111 crew, downed over soviet territorium from an AAA , and their escape from soviet groundtroups.
no heros , just a story about people in war.
but its in german only and if i try to translate it myself, it would be a pain for you to read /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

http://www.bayern.de/Layout/wappen.gif

Bavaria is one of the oldest European states.
It dates back to about 500 A.D., when the Roman Empire was overcome by the onslaught of Germanic tribes. According to a widespread theory, the Bavarian tribe had descended from the Romans who remained in the country, the original Celtic population and the Germanic invaders.

Bavarian History : http://www.bayern.de/Bayern/Information/geschichteE.html#kap0

XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 07:14 AM
Boandlgramer wrote:
- btw. i have a book, called "Kampfgeschwader55 "
- and there is a , in my eyes , good story about an
- Heinkel 111 crew, downed over soviet territorium
- from an AAA , and their escape from soviet
- groundtroups.
- no heros , just a story about people in war.
-
- but its in german only and if i try to translate it
- myself, it would be a pain for you to read

Sounds pretty fascinating. Where did this happen?

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 07:56 AM
Thnx for posting this Bear, it is appreciated by us non-trolls. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Don't let Issie and Huck get you down with their (ab) normal behaviour. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
~S!
Eagle
CO 361st vFG

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XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 12:44 PM
Squadrons using the Typhoon:
609, 198, 266, 486, 257, 439, 193, 1, 183, 263, 168, 182, 164, 247, 197, 174, 175, 181, 184, 245, 3, 56, 137, 195, 438, 440.

Squadrons using the Tempest:
486, 56, 80, 274, 3, 222, 33.



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"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"

XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 01:04 PM
Eagle_361st wrote:
- Thnx for posting this Bear, it is appreciated by us
- non-trolls. Don't let Issie and Huck get
- you down with their (ab) normal behaviour. - ~S!
- Eagle
- CO 361st vFG

Your welcome Sean...and dont worry I usually ignore those two because arguing with them is popintless and can go on for days...... but I wont let someone pi$$ on me and call it rain either.

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

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XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 03:19 PM
Great read. Anyone know where the Fury (not the prewar biplane) and Sea Fury fit into the Typhoon / Tempest lineage?

XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 04:20 PM
necrobaron wrote:
- Boandlgramer wrote:
-- btw. i have a book, called "Kampfgeschwader55 "
-- and there is a , in my eyes , good story about an
-- Heinkel 111 crew, downed over soviet territorium
-- from an AAA , and their escape from soviet
-- groundtroups.
-- no heros , just a story about people in war.
--
-- but its in german only and if i try to translate it
-- myself, it would be a pain for you to read
-
- Sounds pretty fascinating. Where did this happen?


22. september 1941 , crash-landed northeast of Charkow.
piloted from Oberleutnant Mylius.
After nine days they reached the german lines.

http://www.bayern.de/Layout/wappen.gif

Bavaria is one of the oldest European states.
It dates back to about 500 A.D., when the Roman Empire was overcome by the onslaught of Germanic tribes. According to a widespread theory, the Bavarian tribe had descended from the Romans who remained in the country, the original Celtic population and the Germanic invaders.

Bavarian History : http://www.bayern.de/Bayern/Information/geschichteE.html#kap0

XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 04:33 PM
Bearcat99 wrote:
-
- Eagle_361st wrote:
-- Thnx for posting this Bear, it is appreciated by us
-- non-trolls. Don't let Issie and Huck get
-- you down with their (ab) normal behaviour. - ~S!
-- Eagle
-- CO 361st vFG
-
- Your welcome Sean...and dont worry I usually ignore
- those two because arguing with them is popintless
- and can go on for days...... but I wont let someone
- pi$$ on me and call it rain either.


be honest Bearcat, there are more than 2 trolls ,
and those " MORE "are not german nor from hungary /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


http://www.bayern.de/Layout/wappen.gif

Bavaria is one of the oldest European states.
It dates back to about 500 A.D., when the Roman Empire was overcome by the onslaught of Germanic tribes. According to a widespread theory, the Bavarian tribe had descended from the Romans who remained in the country, the original Celtic population and the Germanic invaders.

Bavarian History : http://www.bayern.de/Bayern/Information/geschichteE.html#kap0

XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 04:46 PM
Issy and Huck were certainly not the only incendiaries in that thread......still that wasnt what I wanted to happen. I just thought it was interesting and wanted to share it. If the 109E was so great they wouldnt have improved it... It was still a good plane though and no one at least not me ...is saying otherwise.

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XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 04:55 PM
Bearcat99 wrote:
still that wasnt
- what I wanted to happen.

be sure, never, repeat, never i thought you tried to start an flame war.
always i read your post with good feelings. mostly i agree with you.




http://www.bayern.de/Layout/wappen.gif

Bavaria is one of the oldest European states.
It dates back to about 500 A.D., when the Roman Empire was overcome by the onslaught of Germanic tribes. According to a widespread theory, the Bavarian tribe had descended from the Romans who remained in the country, the original Celtic population and the Germanic invaders.

Bavarian History : http://www.bayern.de/Bayern/Information/geschichteE.html#kap0



Message Edited on 10/22/0304:08PM by Boandlgramer

XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 05:04 PM
AlGroover wrote:
- Great read. Anyone know where the Fury (not the
- prewar biplane) and Sea Fury fit into the Typhoon /
- Tempest lineage?
-
-

hope this helps:

"The Fury was developed after a need for a smaller and lighter version of the Tempest in 1942.
Development started in 1943, at the same time a land and maritime version had to be developed by Hawker, Paul Boulton got the order to convert the new airframe for Maritime use.


In December 1943 six prototypes were ordered, one with the Bristol Centaurus XII 'start-engine', two with Centaurus XXI 'star engine', two with Rolls-Royce Griffon Line-engine and one as a 'test-frame'.

The first prototype to fly was the a Centaurus XII powered fury in September 1944 followed in November of that same year by a Griffon powered type, in a later stadium that engine was replaced by the Napier Sabre line-engine.

Orders were placed for 200 land based Fury's and 100 'Sea-Fury's' for the Aircraft carriers.
The order for the 200 land based Fury's was canceled at the end of WW II, The first Sea Fury flew in February 1945 with a Centaurus XII 'star-engine'. After the war the development of the Sea Fury was continued what resulted in the first Airplane completely adapted for maritime use with folding wings and a Centaurus XV engine. (first flight October 1945) This prototype cleared the way for the Hawker Sea Fury F.Mk X of witch 50 were build.

The first version that was produced in larger numbers was the Sea Fury FB.Mk 11 (615 build.) Other navy's bought the New Sea Fury, The Royal Australian Navy (101 between 1949 and 1953) and the Royal Canadian Navy (35).
The Fleet Air Arm also bought 60 Sea Fury's T.Mk 20 trainers.
"

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 06:29 AM
Thanks Zyzbot, that really completes the picture.