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willyvic
02-07-2004, 09:39 AM
We as a whole have been debating, rather passionately sometimes, the areodynamics of most birds in FB since it's inception. Some glaring mistakes have been identified and fixed by the producers of this product. Yet we still seem to think that some of the birds are under/over modeled. What we base this on differs from user to user. I believe the gaming platform is stable and consists of pretty accurate flight models. I do not expect to ever fly the "perfect" sim. I appreciate the time and effort of those that have conducted in game testing and presented the obvious problems for correction. I appreciate reading the issues taken with some of the flight dynamics of our aircraft. But I also appreciate the fact that soon FB will be somewhat a game of the past, left to it's own designs while we move on to newer things.

As the chances of getting another major patch, short of discovery of a catastrophic problem, is very slim, mayhaps we should attempt to do what the original pilots of these machines did. That is to learn the strengths and weaknesses of our aircraft as they exist NOW. Learn to fly within the envelopes given. Exploit your advantages and understand your disadvantages. If an opponent out turns you in an aircraft you don't believe should be able to do that, mark it down in your mind to not turn with it. Design and fly an approach that will defeat that particular bird.

My point, lengthly as it may seem, is that squabbling amongst ourselves and the game producers trying to get FB "fixed" appears to be a moot point. For those that will remain with FB as their online gaming platform I believe my advice stated above to be valid. I also believe those that will move on to the new expansion pack should concentrate on gathering the known issues and be ready to identify the new issues. And, above all, present the issues as a unified community.

Soap Box relinquished......cya round the lobby sometime.

http://www.rcaf-squadron.org/willyvic/images/mig3u.jpg

willyvic
02-07-2004, 09:39 AM
We as a whole have been debating, rather passionately sometimes, the areodynamics of most birds in FB since it's inception. Some glaring mistakes have been identified and fixed by the producers of this product. Yet we still seem to think that some of the birds are under/over modeled. What we base this on differs from user to user. I believe the gaming platform is stable and consists of pretty accurate flight models. I do not expect to ever fly the "perfect" sim. I appreciate the time and effort of those that have conducted in game testing and presented the obvious problems for correction. I appreciate reading the issues taken with some of the flight dynamics of our aircraft. But I also appreciate the fact that soon FB will be somewhat a game of the past, left to it's own designs while we move on to newer things.

As the chances of getting another major patch, short of discovery of a catastrophic problem, is very slim, mayhaps we should attempt to do what the original pilots of these machines did. That is to learn the strengths and weaknesses of our aircraft as they exist NOW. Learn to fly within the envelopes given. Exploit your advantages and understand your disadvantages. If an opponent out turns you in an aircraft you don't believe should be able to do that, mark it down in your mind to not turn with it. Design and fly an approach that will defeat that particular bird.

My point, lengthly as it may seem, is that squabbling amongst ourselves and the game producers trying to get FB "fixed" appears to be a moot point. For those that will remain with FB as their online gaming platform I believe my advice stated above to be valid. I also believe those that will move on to the new expansion pack should concentrate on gathering the known issues and be ready to identify the new issues. And, above all, present the issues as a unified community.

Soap Box relinquished......cya round the lobby sometime.

http://www.rcaf-squadron.org/willyvic/images/mig3u.jpg

georgeo76
02-07-2004, 11:59 AM
sometimes the debate over AC performance is lengthy and annoying. But sometimes the debates brought up in these forums contributes to the improvement of the game.

I think everyone already takes your advice. We already fly our strengths. What else could we do?


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LEXX_Luthor
02-07-2004, 12:19 PM
I~153 has been Flyable plane over the FB for a long time. I~153 is "old" in FB time. It will be interesting to compare the New Biplanes over the Addon CD with the "old" I~153.



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Bearcat99
02-07-2004, 05:53 PM
Im with you there.... I came here directly from CFS1 so for me the FMs were a huge improvement. I got into IL2 about 6 months before FB came out so I missed a lot of the early stuff. This is the first online community I ever really dealt with that was beyond the actual use of the program so a lot of this was new to me. I had a lot of the major sims except for EAW & Janes on my HD but CFS was my cup of tea. I liked CFS2 but most of my buds were in 1 so thats where I stayed. With IL2/FB I was introduced to a new world, one that was radically diffewrent from what I was used to. In IL2 I though everything was great but in FB I knew there were some issues but for me, seeing what had been done in IL2 I had npo doubts that I had the best sim on my HD and any issues would bve fixed. I had never heard of getting patches amd updates and all that...and I thought it was greaty. To this day even though I am wiser I still dont know of too many software entertainment products that have the support we get here. I have no doubt thst I will be flying FB till BoB comes out and even if something else came out..... given the current state of FB and the current state of systems... I just dont see anything outshining FB that will run decently on my rig....and I wont be upgrading for some time..... TIR2 and maybe a 9800 is going to be it for me till 2005 at the earliest. I am delighted with what we have now and even though it may not be "perfect" it is by far the closest thing to WW2 Flight Sim Perfection I have ever seen and even if the few deficiencies arent fixed..it will remain so.

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VW-IceFire
02-07-2004, 06:24 PM
I came here from Aces of the Pacific and Aces Over Europe. Did those even have flight models? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Excellent point...lots of arguments done to death..I'm sure we'll see them again and a again but I'm pretty happy with virtually everything we have here. I can accept the D-27's roll rate although I know it not to be accurate but aside from that lets look upwards and onwards.

Lots of new planes coming out that I'm sure we'll be arguing about for sometime to come. Hopefully Maddox's team has done their homework and there are no glaring errors and we'll be fine!

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BfHeFwMe
02-07-2004, 06:48 PM
No point in constantly shifting the floor boards around when the rest of the house still has a straw roof.

There's much more important things that need to be reworked, like AI behavior and their gunnery routines. What good is a perfect FM when your AI can't properly use it?

willyvic
02-08-2004, 09:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BfHeFwMe:
No point in constantly shifting the floor boards around when the rest of the house still has a straw roof.

There's much more important things that need to be reworked, like AI behavior and their gunnery routines. What good is a perfect FM when your AI can't properly use it?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My apologies. I was selfishly thinking of online DF during my post. Of course your absolutely correct that the AI should perform within specs. Sounds like a great item to add to the issue list. Jot down your thoughts and have them ready come expansion day.

http://www.rcaf-squadron.org/willyvic/images/mig3u.jpg