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Curly_109
02-09-2004, 07:51 AM
How do you fight 2 yak3's on ace level in quick mission builder (on 1000m)? I fly in bf109(G or K whatever) and if I don't hit it when in face to face combat they always outturn me... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

http://www.frenkenstein.com/ww2/croatia/15.JG52_109.jpg

Curly_109
02-09-2004, 07:51 AM
How do you fight 2 yak3's on ace level in quick mission builder (on 1000m)? I fly in bf109(G or K whatever) and if I don't hit it when in face to face combat they always outturn me... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

http://www.frenkenstein.com/ww2/croatia/15.JG52_109.jpg

Slush69
02-09-2004, 07:57 AM
Oh, the turnfighter Yak-3 outturns your energy fighter the Bf-109? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Well... for starters you could stop turning with them, and use your aircrafts advantages against their weaknesses.

cheers/slush

http://www.wilcks.dk/crap/Eurotrolls.gif

Bogun
02-09-2004, 08:53 AM
Give me your E-mail via PM - I will send you some traks.

Regards,

AKA_Bogun
http://www.akawardogs.com/

http://img5.photobucket.com/albums/v22/Bogun/Sevastopol.jpg

"The best fighters I met in combat were the American P-51 Mustang and Russian Yak-9U. Both of those types obviously exceeded all Bf109 variants in performance, including the 'K'. The Mustang was unmatched in altitude performance, while the Yak-9U was champion in rate of climb and maneuverability."

- Walter Wolfrum

Lunix
02-09-2004, 09:00 AM
Hey Curly. Taking down 2 Yak 3's should not be a problem for a 109K.
First thing is to drop your engine to idle and turn your MW50 on, leave it on allways. Then do a full power climb up as high as you can get before the Yaks arrive. Relax the throttle. Look for a nice slow easy target Yak climbing up underneath you. Then just dive on him. You do not need to get on his 6 all you need to do is make him pass through your gunsight. Make sure you pull the trigger a little before he gets to the middle. Gently and slowly pull back up to a climbing attitude. Hit full throttle a climb. Rinse and repeat as necessary.

http://members.shaw.ca/corn/il2sig2.jpg

NorrisMcWhirter
02-09-2004, 09:57 AM
Hi,

I agree with points made already. Another tip is, if you are at altitude, dive away from the Yaks at full throttle - they will break up before your (late model) 109 will.

I've used this trick, online, on both Yak3s and La7s so I know it works. It doesn't work if the VVS driver knows his a/c, though ;-)

In fact, if it doesn't work, you are at a severe disadvantage so only use it as a last resort.

Cheers,
Norris


================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam : http://cabinessence.cream.org/

More irreverence:
http://www.tvgohome.com/

JorBR
02-09-2004, 10:00 AM
Curly, never, never turn with a YAK-3 (or a I-16/153). The 109K is a vertical fighter, my suggestion to you is to read some about BFM/CFM and to start with lower enemy AI levels http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

"Never wrestle with a pig; you both get dirty but the pig enjoys it!"

F19_Ob
02-09-2004, 10:58 AM
I have an alternative opininon that goes against some of the earlier posts. ( no offense ment).

This goes for online flying.

If U are fighting above 3000m your chances increases.


Pitting one 109k4 against two yak3 is very dangerous indeed.( when The yak3 arrived it made all 109's antiquated). The only realistic chance U have is to have the altitude advantage and they must be unaware of u. then pick your target and BnZ If u kill one u might have another go at the other one , wich most likely will be a head on.

If U miss that first pass U wont be able to do anything else but to escape and there is a big risk that u wont make it. even if u initially can run away in a dive in the 109 u will quickly bleed the extra speed, but the yak3 will not and it also wont overheat like the 109 will do after a short period on full power.

In a fw190 your chances are a bit better bcause u can take a few hits and be able to keep flying and there is also no overheating to worry about.

To stay and turn is = get shot down.

Some times Ive been in a situation where I've momentarily gained just enough distance to turn around for a head on... and been lucky to be the the one hitting.


The thing that makes the yak so dangerous is its speed and and keeping top speed up for long periods. It turns well in all speeds and have extreemly good fastfiring ammo wich also makes deflectionshooting easy = u dont have to pull much lead, and also have the possibility to damage a plane at very long distance ( mg's).
Then there is the superb view.



------------------------------------------------

Shooting down ai yak3 is a bit easier since they cant actually think or plan ahead and thus wont understand that u will pull up after the BnZ attack , but the ammo is still good and they should be able to hit u , although they would not fire at u from long distances as live opponents would.

the last but most important thing is that u must be a good deflectionshooter since u will only see high deflection angles if they are aware of u.


If im flying a 109 online and spot a yak3 at same altidude...I quickly get out of there.

When I fly the yak3 I feel like a monster.

cheers

[This message was edited by ob_swe on Mon February 09 2004 at 11:06 AM.]

tttiger
02-09-2004, 05:36 PM
Well, first, I'd go read (or re-read) Boelcke's Dicta, from WWI, which still apply (if you don't know what I'm talking about do a Google search for it). If there's only one of you and two of them, get out of Dodge. NEVER fight unless you have the advantage (energy, speed, alt, numbers, whatever).

Second, I don't know how you fly (so this may not be directed at you) but I am astonished at how many bf109 pilots do NOT know how to fight in the vertical. I'm not talking Boom & Zoom. I'm talking Turn & Burn but going up and down instead of horizontally.

Any model of the 109 fights better in the vertical than any Allied fighter (which, generally, are better in the horizontal plane). Yet so few do, it amazes me. I always fly Allied and the few good LW 109 vertical fighters can clean my clock any time, no matter what I'm driving.

Years ago, when I flew WWI Dawn of Aces, there were a handful of pilots who could take that otherwise pathetic little Albatross we had in there and wup butt on Sopwith Camels and SE5as, the two best Allied planes, in vertical fights.

Out of self defense, I finally asked one of them to give me some lessons. At first it feels kind of unnatural but in certain planes, it is unbeatable.

My point to all this babbling: If you see one of the few really good 109 vertical fighter pilots on line, don't be bashful. Ask if he'll go to a DF arena and give you some pointers. Chances are, they will (I think http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif).

In a vertical fight, you can beat a Yak-3 (especially with its pitiful guns and short clip) in a 109. Again, following Boelcke, I would never take on two fighters with one if I could run away.

Hope that helps.

Aloha,

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

Bamatt
02-10-2004, 12:32 AM
The guns on the Yak 3 will rip the wings off a 190 quicker then $^%&.

You can hang with one in a G2. Also, a G6A/S is nice as well, got to get him quick though.

TheGozr
02-10-2004, 01:17 AM
A lots depend on the pilot really, the plane just do what you do to him.

Achilles97
02-10-2004, 01:37 AM
Can 109s really hang with a Yak3 in a vertical turn and burn fighting? I was flying with a friend the other day, me=109g10, him=yak3, and we started comparing vertical moves. I was amazed at how easily he could pull a vertical 360, basically a loop. He could pull it off at under 350kph, but I had to be going over 450 if I was to make it without stalling at the top of the loop.

Also, we were going the same speed in level flight, me right behind him. We started to climb, and I couldn't gain on him in a climb @ full power @ ~300kph, my engine started overheating and I had to let off.

The ONLY way I can down a Yak3 is if I get a lucky deflection shot or he's dumb enough to come head on at my mk108.

So, my usual strategy against a Yak3 in a late model 109 is just boom, zoom, extend, and turn back for a head-to-head.

Someone mentioned flying the g6/as. I fly the g2 for turning, and g10 for speed. How does the g6/as rate?

zugfuhrer
02-10-2004, 01:53 PM
Dont fight them below 5000 m because AI-fighters have superior prestanda, they shoot like snipers and dont blackout. Dont turnfight them when they are together If you attack one he will dive and you have one minute to deal with the other one.
I send you a trackfile when I dogfight three of them, either in a Me-109G or FW-190 A5 if you send me your emailaddress

ZG77_Nagual
02-10-2004, 02:01 PM
dunno, I usually fight four http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Start at at least 3000 - shallow dive then pull up directly into them when they are almost overhead - evading with minimal speed loss. At the end of the climb pick the one that lets you build the most speed, dive and shred to taste then zoom again. Never let them get above you. Don't turn with them.
Works well in p40, 109g6, p39(most fun of all - four yaks, four or five shots http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) doras (dora is really great at this) and all other 190s, 109s etc. etc. a bit rough in the brewster, emil handles it well, zero is not so good for this tactic

Curly_109
02-10-2004, 04:06 PM
THX for suggestions I'll try some of them. As far as someone suggest that I have to lower AI skill it will be stupid after playing this game for more than several months (in all versions not only FB) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. If someone can win more than 6 times out of 10 in the conditions I describe below (again!) than he is very skilled in this game.

Fly in QMB 1000m alt. no advantage/disadvantage, Moscow or Smolensk area (so you can avoid ship flak or to use hills for some advantage---it's pretty cool when AI bump into the hill even on ACE level http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif---), no ground targets, no AAA, and in FB v.1.22. I bet you'll be beaten most of the time. And not to forget fly with NORMAL game difficulty WITHOUT game acceleration/decel. Thats all. Cheers

Bamatt
02-10-2004, 10:20 PM
A G6A/S can turn with a Yak3 well enough to get a few shots off. If you go with the 108 it will be a little heavier tho. It can hang with an La until you get going too slow, then the La has too much torque and will pull away and end up on YOUR butt.