PDA

View Full Version : UBI should stop making announcements.



XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 05:22 AM
I was looking at the back of my original IL2 Sturmovik disc case the other day and it had the add for Lock On, which was due out in Spring of 2002. Of course it is Fall of 2003 and the game still isn't out.

I think Ubi would be better served by not promoting any product until it is finished. They are making a poll for BOB that is due in 2005 Q1? With their past record that means the game may not be ready until Christmas of 2006 so who cares at this point.

Almost all of the bad blood over the patch for FB came from announcing it before it was remotely close to being done. When you build up a product or a patch for that long it is going to put a microscope on it because people naturally think that the reason it takes so long is to work out bugs. When the product is full of bugs they are twice as mad as they would be if a product or patch was announced and it came out the next day or week.

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 05:22 AM
I was looking at the back of my original IL2 Sturmovik disc case the other day and it had the add for Lock On, which was due out in Spring of 2002. Of course it is Fall of 2003 and the game still isn't out.

I think Ubi would be better served by not promoting any product until it is finished. They are making a poll for BOB that is due in 2005 Q1? With their past record that means the game may not be ready until Christmas of 2006 so who cares at this point.

Almost all of the bad blood over the patch for FB came from announcing it before it was remotely close to being done. When you build up a product or a patch for that long it is going to put a microscope on it because people naturally think that the reason it takes so long is to work out bugs. When the product is full of bugs they are twice as mad as they would be if a product or patch was announced and it came out the next day or week.

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 05:27 AM
The CD Case for FB has LOMAC on it too... Talk about a lack of credibility /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



<p align="center"> http://www.1stclassproperties.ca/mr/Spit.jpg
Tongue-tied & twisted,
just an earthbound misfit,
I.
</CENTER>
</p>

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 05:35 AM
Almost all the bad blood over the patch was due to ppl who thought 1C owed them something. ppl who believed that release dates were contracts and delays were betrayals. ppl who thought that a for-profit company should make free software their first priority. ppl that have been spoiled by the outstanding support we've received, and allowed their eagerness to become bitter disappointment.

I've been looking forward to 1C's next flight Sim for a long time before BoB was announced and I'm glad they made the announcement. When I read the announcement about BoB, I saw a world of possibility and much to be exited about. When some ppl read the announcement all they saw were four numbers 2-0-0-5

Bucinda wrote:

- Almost all of the bad blood over the patch for
- FB came from announcing it before it was remotely
- close to being done.

<center> http://webpages.charter.net/Stick_Fiend/images/buck1.gif <font size= 2>
"I don't think it's quite fair to condemn the whole program because of a single slip up"
<a href="http://webpages.charter.net/Stick_Fiend/"> <font size= 1>Stick_Fiend Home<a/>
<a href="http://webpages.charter.net/Stick_Fiend/X45.htm"> <font size= 1>X45 Profiles<a/>
<a href="http://webpages.charter.net/Stick_Fiend/FYLindex.htm"> <font size= 1>Fighting for Your Life<a/></center>

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 05:38 AM
Yeah that one says "Available Summer 2003". Integrity is doing what you said you are going to do. UBI lacks integrity because they make a lot of promises and then break them. The solution to this problem is to stop making announcements before it is time. I know why they do it of course but they need to realize that false promotion loses customers, it doesn't gain them.

There is a pay ware add-on due in January and a new sim due in the first quarter of 2005. Does anybody truly believe these deadlines will be kept? So the question remains why bother with an announcement until the product is 100% complete.

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 05:49 AM
There should be no free software because people with a sense of entitlement will demand it and the company that is giving it away will act like they are an abused charity and not put the kind of effort they would into it if it was payware.

A patch on the other hand is not free software. Many technical issues with the game were left unresolved with the promise that an upcoming patch would fix it. A company does have an obligation to fix a legitimate problem with their product so some of the people who were demanding the patch after the date being pushed back several times were in the right. On the other hand, if your gripe was about FM or a view then the way to deal with that is to not support the product. You have to distinguish between people who want real technical flaws corrected and those who just don't like something in the game like how a particular plane flies.

Ubi soft should take all the planes and maps they are done with right now and sell the thing right now as a payware add-on. They could then sell the next payware add-on in a few months when the rest of the planes were done. Lets not get all teary-eyed about how generous UBI is. Look at how many planes are being given away for free compared to the payware add-on and lets stop this nonsense about generosity.

By the way, I hate it when people say UBI is better than microsoft and we should just be grateful. UBI should be a good company period. It doesn't get any credit for being better than a lousy company like microsoft if it is a lousy company too but not as bad. I don't buy microsoft products but I do buy UBI products so I am allowed to hold them to a high standard regardless of any other bad company out there.

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 06:02 AM
I wonder if this thread is gonna be a 50 post salsa topic. Everyone can relate, even though its been mentioned before.

Personally, I'm glad they make the announcements, I just don't have any expectations. I temporarily dream about the possibilities. By the time its supposed to be here, I usually have to rely on others reminding me its the big date. If its delayed another 6 months, I just have fun dreaming for a while again. If its on time, or close to it, its a very, very special surprise.

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 06:03 AM
they just shouldnt say dates if they arent sure.But we all want to know whats currently getting changes and being worked on with dev shots of them in the game with some of the new terrains. It would even be nice to see some data posts and wwii related aviation posts from good books etc from 1c and the mods to make them feel more like a part of the community then just policing it. well at least thats what i think anyways

http://www.freewebs.com/leadspitter/lead.txt
Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 06:14 AM
georgeo76 wrote:
-
-
- Almost all the bad blood over the patch was due to
- ppl who thought 1C owed them something. ppl who
- believed that release dates were contracts and
- delays were betrayals. ppl who thought that a
- for-profit company should make free software their
- first priority. ppl that have been spoiled by the
- outstanding support we've received, and allowed
- their eagerness to become bitter disappointment.
-
- I've been looking forward to 1C's next flight Sim
- for a long time before BoB was announced and I'm
- glad they made the announcement. When I read the
- announcement about BoB, I saw a world of possibility
- and much to be exited about. When some ppl read the
- announcement all they saw were four numbers 2-0-0-5

I couldn't have said it better myself.

For something as complex as a decent game/sim like IL-2/FB, Lock On or BoB this process takes a long time.

I guess people think everything should happen faster when Gibbage can seem to create a plane model as quickly as he does. Remember, at this time (I beleive) he has nothing else going, like a regular job. Also, it's just the model. The FM takes much longer. (And, btw, have you noticed how long it's taking the make the PBY flyable?)

This stuff doesn't happen overnight folks.

I look at a release date as "in a perfect world", not as an absolute. As long as the product is of reasonably good quality, I'm willing to wait. If it's not good, (IMO) I can return it for refund/exchange and if that's not possible I then know to not rush out and buy the next product that company produces until I get some feedback on it.

Meanwhile I'll continue to fly IL-2/FB knowing it's the best flight sim I've ever flown and wait and see what the next release holds. If there are improvements, fine. If I don't like it I can do what others have done who have not been satisifed with the patches...revert to and earlier version, IL-2 if necessary.

And as for the (apparent) pay add-on, I'll buy it. I'm amazed that any company today gives ANYTNING away for free, even patches.

Sign me,

Patient
(at least several people say I should be one)

<center>Beebop-ProudBirds-VFW<center>http://www.uploadit.org/files/230903-Beebop%20Sig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 06:20 AM
I agree w/ you. fixing some problems should be expected. All I'm saying is it's unrealistic for ppl to demand that patches should be top priority.

It's good business to insure products work well for (the majority) of ppl who buy them. However, it also makes good business since to focus on upcoming releases that produce tangible income.

Ppl should be more aware of what software development is really like. There is a gap between the ppl who actually write the code (1C), and those who manufacture the CD's, print the manuals, create the box, and market the product(UBI). Infact, the board we are all posting on is part of that marketing (the fiscal justification of all customer service is cultivation of repeat business), and to expect a company not to hype a product to a group of customers likely to buy the product is unrealistic. If UBI didn't think ppl in this forum were more likely to purchase UBI products in the future, this forum would not exist.


Bucinda wrote:

- A company does have an obligation to
- fix a legitimate problem with their product

<center> http://webpages.charter.net/Stick_Fiend/images/buck1.gif <font size= 2>
"I don't think it's quite fair to condemn the whole program because of a single slip up"
<a href="http://webpages.charter.net/Stick_Fiend/"> <font size= 1>Stick_Fiend Home<a/>
<a href="http://webpages.charter.net/Stick_Fiend/X45.htm"> <font size= 1>X45 Profiles<a/>
<a href="http://webpages.charter.net/Stick_Fiend/FYLindex.htm"> <font size= 1>Fighting for Your Life<a/></center>

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 06:24 AM
Good post Leadspitter. It is nice to know of future plans, it helps keep the present enthusiasm going strong.

And the inclusion of the Mods directly obtaining and distributing the materials for discussion could easily strengthen the community.

It does appear too risky to place expectations for specific dates of arrival. It seems already the scepticism from the announcement has done more harm than good. Too bad.

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 06:24 AM
I assure you that you all have made it very clear to UBI Soft that one shouldn't announce release-dates if not 140% sure.
Henceforth I think we'll see releasedates like "in the future" and "within a couple of years" and such.

Ain't that great!?!

http://members.chello.se/ven/milton.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 06:27 AM
welcome to the wine at UBISOFT post ..
grow up.

Chin up ..HUTCH


http://www.il2skins.com/skins/thumbs/781.jpg

http://il2skins.com/?action=display&skinid=781 ( <A HREF=)" target=_blank>http://il2skins.com/?action=display&skinid=781</a>

Next time your in Eugene,Oregon come see me at my internet/lan center....I have 2 systems runing FB
http://64.122.43.227/ ( <A HREF=)" target=_blank>http://64.122.43.227/</a>

Chin up ..HUTCH


http://www.il2skins.com/skins/thumbs/781.jpg

http://il2skins.com/?action=display&skinid=781

Next time your in Eugene,Oregon come see me at my internet/lan center....I have 2 systems runing FB
http://64.122.43.227/

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 06:44 AM
The bottom line is money for these companies, of course. It's not like they are polluting the envionment they are just jerking the chains of some video-gamers. Who cares. It's all promotional and maybe they were just being "over-optomistic". If you think about it, the graphics engine looks kinda like IL2/FB. So it has probably been doing a serious hold up job for awile. I don't really care for LOMAC though. I already have a flight sim(true combat) and a MMORPG to play. BoB, that will be cool. Here's to it being the real deal and not like what the sequels to the CFS series have been.

"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 06:53 AM
Making announcements is part of marketing. If the announcement includes a date, I'll bet that UBI would like that date to be met for release. If it isn't, well, it's probably that the product isn't ready yet. I would much rather wait for something that's ready for release.

To suggest that the UBI higher-ups collectively have poor character because the product wasn't released "on time" is absurd and childish. Yo! It's just a video game, anyway!

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 06:53 AM
I'm an idealist so I will never stop to believe that it's NOT all about money.

http://members.chello.se/ven/milton.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 06:54 AM
You mean you're a pragmatist, not an idealist then.

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 06:57 AM
Whatever turns you on, hun. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://members.chello.se/ven/milton.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 07:05 AM
I don't know if this is a silly question, but does anyone know if Ubisoft has profited from Il-2/FB?

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 07:09 AM
What about releasing a POS like FB with the anticipation of fixing it with a patch at a later date? When I go to McDonald's they don't say here's your Burger let us know if it's cooked or not. And Gee Whiz if it isn't we'll fix it for free. Wow that's mighty big of you.

Buzz_25th
10-14-2003, 07:11 AM
I'm sure they made a few bucks.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/anderson3.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 07:15 AM
The word "integrity" doesn't have to have a moral connotation. A bridge can lack structural integrity i.e. it can't be trusted to drive over. This is the sense in which I think UBI lacks integrity. People keep making apologies for this company which I find very strange (perhaps more UBI employees frequent these boards than I would ever imagine). There is always a lag time between the completion of a product and its release and that is when the product should be announced and promoted. I wouldn't be surprised if the final product to be boxed is done several months before it hits the shelves so it is feasible to hold off announcing it until it is complete.

There seems to be some UBI apologists who believe that some of the things this company does is not motivated by the drive for profit. Do you really think that any company worth its salt doesn't consciously try to make more money with every action they take? Even a free add-on is a ploy to get you to buy the payware add on in the future. If this was not the case they could have put all of the completed versions of the P-51 on the free add-on instead of just putting a single version with the lesser sight in it. The free add-on is designed to whet your appetite for more add-ons in the near future. No company just gives stuff away for free because they like you. They give stuff away for free so that you will like them and buy more of their stuff in the future.

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 07:15 AM
Shat, running a coffe house is much worse: You HAVE to make good coffee (and this is arabica) but you have to pay for it and you have to train train train /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

If I could just say 'jamacian blue lintong' on sale for $30 a pound I could substiture guat and make $20 a pound profit on just the beans /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I guess the analogy doesn't "fly" sorry /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif




<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Buzz_25th
10-14-2003, 07:23 AM
Cut back on the coffee Rogo. It's frying your brain../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/anderson3.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 07:25 AM
I know buzz, I know http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 07:35 AM
Yes, it's a disgrace how UBI always fails, when the rest of the industry consistently delivers as promised on time. Right?

RBJ_4: IL-2 was POS on delivery? Can you name one thing delivered at about the same time that was better.
_
/Bjorn.

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 08:14 AM
Writing code is a craft, and it has a period of evolution. When is the last time you purchased software that didn't update or need patches? It was prob a console game, where the hardware was a controllable variable.

It's very difficult to create software that interacts w/ unknown hardware. Imagine trying to to design a transmission meant to be installed in every Chevy built after 1995. You could either buy an example of every Chevy w/ every possible configuration, or you could test the transmission on several representative Chevy's. When you released your transmission it prob. won't work w/ Joe-Bob's custom clutch, or Mary-Jane's re-built engine, so you refine the design to work properly w/ as many possible configurations. Most will be happy. A few won't.

I think M$ deserves some credit for standardization while I'm on the subject. I know that many ppl dislike the windows monopoly. But could you imagine a world where there were a dozen or more competing OS? Chaos.

RBJ_4 wrote:
- What about releasing a POS like FB with the anticipation of fixing it with a patch at a later date?



<center> http://webpages.charter.net/Stick_Fiend/images/buck1.gif <font size= 2>
"I don't think it's quite fair to condemn the whole program because of a single slip up"
<a href="http://webpages.charter.net/Stick_Fiend/"> <font size= 1>Stick_Fiend Home<a/>
<a href="http://webpages.charter.net/Stick_Fiend/X45.htm"> <font size= 1>X45 Profiles<a/>
<a href="http://webpages.charter.net/Stick_Fiend/FYLindex.htm"> <font size= 1>Fighting for Your Life<a/></center>

Message Edited on 10/14/0303:31AM by georgeo76

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 03:13 PM
Well it was released a bit earlier than FB and it was called IL-2. IL-2 was better than FB out of box. And even after the patches it's still a toss up.

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 03:35 PM
Hey, there are no more truly intentioned 'free' add-ons in FB, like there were in Il-2. This coming free add-on is just a kind of 'demo' of the paid add-on, and I wouldn't consider a demo as an altruistic gift.

And, Rogodin, I didn't understand a word of what you typed, it's something about coffe, but it sounds fantastic... can you make more curious noises? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

- Dux Corvan -



http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612322300

</span></blockquote></font></td></tr>

Message Edited on 10/14/0303:38PM by DuxCorvan

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 04:03 PM
Personally I'd rather know when the planned date of release is than have vague phases like "in the near future" or "sometime next year", so if I want to purchase the product I can make sure my PC is updated and ready to run it.

That any company will look at profits is rather obvious: no profits = no survival, after all. Even great artists mainly worked to earn their bread, and the ones who didn't tended to die awfully young...

Any new program will incur in unforeseen problems and delays, some of which will be found out only after release, hence the existence of patches.

If people don't like the idea of patches they can always buy a Playstation... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 04:22 PM
Vengeanze wrote:
- I assure you that you all have made it very clear to
- UBI Soft that one shouldn't announce release-dates
- if not 140% sure.
- Henceforth I think we'll see releasedates like "in
- the future" and "within a couple of years" and such.
-
- Ain't that great!?!


If they didn't give dates on estimated releases, and suddenly announced it was complete .... do you think there would be the line-ups the day it comes out??? LOL /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

All part of the Marketing scheme boys. Like it or not, that's good business /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<center>http://www.medals.org.uk/united-kingdom/images/uk654.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 04:34 PM
RBJ_4 wrote:
- What about releasing a POS like FB with the
- anticipation of fixing it with a patch at a later
- date? When I go to McDonald's they don't say here's
- your Burger let us know if it's cooked or not. And
- Gee Whiz if it isn't we'll fix it for free. Wow
- that's mighty big of you.

A POS like FB? What version of FB are you flying with? You must be flying the RBJ Deluxe version 4.0 ...made just for you...../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif FB was not a perfect sim..(there isnt one) but it was no where near a POS even before the first beta patch...just my 2 cents...

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

<CENTER><FONT COLOR="ORANGE">vflyer@comcast.net<FONT COLOR>
<Center><div style="width:200;color:red;font-size:18pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=red,strength=8)">99th Pursuit Squadron