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View Full Version : The conqueror needs some serious love.



IroncIad
01-29-2017, 01:25 PM
I've posted about this before, but it's getting out of hand. Every single character has some cheese which allows them to at least get 1 hit on an enemy if they land the cheese. The conqueror has 0 guaranteed damage and gets **** on by good players. Sure it's a very good noobstomper, but an assassin can easily do that aswell... The conqueror has NO way of damaging anyone who is a good player. His attacks are incredibly slow, he can only parry with heavy attacks (which means they can be blocked), he CANNOT FEINT, (which is logically right, I know) but this removes the only possibility of dealing any form of damage. His shield charge is easily dodgeable, but even if you land it, the opponent either gets out of range because of the pathetic length of your flail, or will be able to recover quickly enough to block your attack. Seriously, I can live forever as a conqueror, they did that right, but he has absolutely no chance of damaging (let alone killing) anyone who knows how to play this game. Especially assassins with their lightning speed. The conqueror is simply too slow to deal with anything. The only use I can see against good players is in dominion where you can hold the line for ages against multiple people because of your very good defensive capabilities. Please, I'm not asking for much, just make him be able to do any form of damage at least if he does everything right.. It's just pure despair when you counter everything your opponent throws at you but you KNOW you cannot try to hit them back because you'll get instantly countered and butchered.

Indirius
01-29-2017, 02:16 PM
I've posted about this before, but it's getting out of hand. Every single character has some cheese which allows them to at least get 1 hit on an enemy if they land the cheese. The conqueror has 0 guaranteed damage and gets **** on by good players. Sure it's a very good noobstomper, but an assassin can easily do that aswell... The conqueror has NO way of damaging anyone who is a good player. His attacks are incredibly slow, he can only parry with heavy attacks (which means they can be blocked), he CANNOT FEINT, (which is logically right, I know) but this removes the only possibility of dealing any form of damage. His shield charge is easily dodgeable, but even if you land it, the opponent either gets out of range because of the pathetic length of your flail, or will be able to recover quickly enough to block your attack. Seriously, I can live forever as a conqueror, they did that right, but he has absolutely no chance of damaging (let alone killing) anyone who knows how to play this game. Especially assassins with their lightning speed. The conqueror is simply too slow to deal with anything. The only use I can see against good players is in dominion where you can hold the line for ages against multiple people because of your very good defensive capabilities. Please, I'm not asking for much, just make him be able to do any form of damage at least if he does everything right.. It's just pure despair when you counter everything your opponent throws at you but you KNOW you cannot try to hit them back because you'll get instantly countered and butchered.

Agreed. Honestly, I've been landing most of my shield charges, followed by a heavy blow, but that's pretty much it, rest is luck if you manage to block enemy attacks.

Sakinahz
01-29-2017, 02:55 PM
/agree, once players get good, conqueror will have no use anymore.even if its really low damage,give conqueror a little something to deal damage with or maybe a kind of attack that drain stamina even if blocked?that way you can try to play a stamina drain game? Im not sure how but... conq does seem like it need a little something more.

Xakonero
01-29-2017, 03:03 PM
I agree too, the poor conqueror is really strong against new players and when the enemy dont know how he works, but when the players are relative good, its ******* hard kill.

The bigger problem is that if you deal a good damage to the enemy, he have just to run: You will never catch them. I think that a little stamina drain, or a little extra range with the attacks wouldnt make he op, because his range is a little patethic.

He just need something to fight, in specially agaisnt the assasins, which laugh at you.

SournoisFox
01-29-2017, 03:56 PM
Conqueror has some cheese moves:

1. Shield charge ----> heavy
2. Heavy ----> Shield bash ----> Light
3. Heavy charge-up ----> Block attack ----> Heavy.

Not to mention guardbreak into a wall, as well as parry.

IroncIad
01-29-2017, 07:10 PM
Conqueror has some cheese moves:

1. Shield charge ----> heavy
2. Heavy ----> Shield bash ----> Light
3. Heavy charge-up ----> Block attack ----> Heavy.

Not to mention guardbreak into a wall, as well as parry.
Given that you can't realistically hit a heavy or a chargeup against a good player, the last two aren't very effective. And the first one can still be blocked after the stagger ends from the shield charge, same with parries. (Since you can only parry with heavy attacks.)

Aphex_Tim
01-29-2017, 09:53 PM
At least you can do this with Conqueror...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpVGBbaG7eA

That said, when working together properly, the Conqueror can be a real pain in the bum for the enemy. My buddy and me (as Berserker) were practically unstoppable at some point; where he basically functioned as the shield to my sword and we combo'd our way through the game! It's even very briefly showcased in this video, where I get my *** handed to me by the Vanguard, and my buddy comes charging in and just knocks him off his *** with his shield

Patpatrik
01-29-2017, 10:55 PM
I think Conq is fine (but, probably, he needs bigger health pool). I got 59% win rate duels mostly, and this not so bad at all (сonsidering my first few clueless defeats, and some Domination rounds).
Only class, that I never managed to beat - it's Nobushi (a few hours ago I lost against lvl 1 Nobushi with my lvl 12 Conq 3-0, without a chance). But this is not because Conq is weak, it's because Nobushi is OP.

Oupyz
01-30-2017, 02:18 AM
Nobushi Op , you really didn't see how high skill players destroy everything with conqueror/warlords =))

haha at Nobushi Op =))

Aeecto
01-30-2017, 02:21 AM
A conq is a badass in the right hands... hits amazingly hard and has a great defence.
Itīs a l2p issue most of the time, since his skillcap is a lot higher than of a nobushi for example, which is pretty low.
A conq eats all assassins for breakfast ;)

SillyDucklings
01-30-2017, 02:49 AM
A conq is a badass in the right hands... hits amazingly hard and has a great defence.
Itīs a l2p issue most of the time, since his skillcap is a lot higher than of a nobushi for example, which is pretty low.
A conq eats all assassins for breakfast ;)

Nice b8 m8.

If you're being serious, you're VERY wrong. No idea how you could think his skillcap is high when he can't feint, and has like half the engage options of a really good orochi.

That being said I don't think he needs a buff. Just because he isn't viable in 1v1s at higher levels of play doesn't mean ubi needs to make him. He's not really meant to be a 1v1er anyway, he's meant to be a pain in the *** in team-based modes.

TCTF_SWAT
01-30-2017, 02:55 AM
Defense mode is a substitute for a feint. It's not great but it works.

Aeecto
01-30-2017, 10:05 AM
Nice b8 m8.

If you're being serious, you're VERY wrong. No idea how you could think his skillcap is high when he can't feint, and has like half the engage options of a really good orochi.

That being said I don't think he needs a buff. Just because he isn't viable in 1v1s at higher levels of play doesn't mean ubi needs to make him. He's not really meant to be a 1v1er anyway, he's meant to be a pain in the *** in team-based modes.
As i said in anothet thread... it seems you're on of the people who actually don't know much about the conq.
1 example with that you're wrong is your no feint claim.... he can feint easily with blockade and shieldbash you directly.
And at higher levels he is the one most a afraid of in 1vs1.
I'm currently at rep 1 level 20 and won 73% of all my fights in that bracket ( even against rep 2 and 3).... no matter what hero they played. Assassins were totally fodder and the only one i lost against was conqs ( and i never dodged a single match, so these stats are real).

Aarpian2
01-30-2017, 10:38 AM
Almost everything written in the OP is wrong. You can parry attacks normally just like everyone else, and follow it up with a guard break into side heavy, just like everyone else. The conqueror does need some love, but not in the way you think he does. You see he's overpowered.

Only the warlord can compete with the conqueror in terms of reliably and safely dealing damage. Shield bash guarantees you a light attack unless they were at the edge of your range when you hit them, and a heavy if you hit them into a wall from a decent distance.

Shield bash has almost no risk associated with using it. It's functionally almost identical to Warlord's headbutt+stab, with a couple of differences that mostly come out in the wash. It is impossible to actively punish the shield bash by reacting to it, and the only way you can win a trade against it is if you throw out a light attack before he uses it. If you try to dodge it and then punish him with an attack or guard break, he has already recovered in time to block, parry or tech your response, even if you dodge attack as an assassin.
On top of that, shield bash drains a **** load of enemy stamina. This means you can effectively keep someone permanently out of stamina unless they manage to dodge an appreciable amount of your attempts, and their requirement to dodge combined with the tight timing required to successfully do it means you can easily bait them into dodging and getting a guaranteed guard break.
Other decent bits of his kit are his charged heavies, which come in very useful against the nobushi in particular thanks to their range, and his sprinting charge.

Additionally, you can actually feint with the conqueror, you just do it by using defensive stance. It's not hugely useful, but it has its moments, mainly not getting parried after trying to parry an enemy feint (though another neat little trick the conqueror has is holding your heavy attack when you try to parry, so that if they feint you just charge a heavy which you can cancel out of as you please).


The reason he needs love is that without shield bash - which absolutely needs to be nerfed - he's completely dead in the water. His attacks do the least damage of anyone (his heavies can't even finish off a 1-bar assassin), they're slow, feinting takes a long time and can't be followed up with anything other than a shield bash to punish, his omniblock is pointless to use in a 1v1 situation, his zone attack is worthless in a 1v1 and does the least damage of any attack in the game. What he really needs is an overhaul.

Patpatrik
01-30-2017, 11:43 AM
Nobushi Op , you really didn't see how high skill players destroy everything with conqueror/warlords =))

haha at Nobushi Op =))

Look through the forum - it swarming with "Nobushi Op" topics. It's just statistics.

Valhalla_962016
01-30-2017, 04:34 PM
I personally had a fair time with The Conqueror in 1v1 Duels but here's some advice for duelling Assassins; most of them have to get in close to do real damage. So keep your block up, try to block all their hits, you'll probably take a hit but The Conqueror has a lot of health. When you get the opportunity, break the guard and unleash light attacks on all sides. Left, right and top. A taste of their own medicine if you will. After that, try to smack them down with a heavy or if worse comes to worst, then try to guard break then toss them over the side. Works well.

Cheers