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View Full Version : Hard to leard, hard to master



uaaarrrgh
01-28-2017, 12:49 PM
Like the title says I think the game has a way too high etry barrier in the beginning of the game. That pushes me away. I don't wanna feel bad playing the first 10 hours of a game.
Yeah your gonna say/think "l2p fkn noob". But thats the point: I don't wanna have to hardcore-study the core game controls-mechanics just to have a chance to have fun...
In my opinions games should offer an easy way into the basic gameplay and then become hard to master. For Honor fails to offer this to me.

Grievuuz
01-28-2017, 01:07 PM
Like the title says I think the game has a way too high etry barrier in the beginning of the game. That pushes me away. I don't wanna feel bad playing the first 10 hours of a game.
Yeah your gonna say/think "l2p fkn noob". But thats the point: I don't wanna have to hardcore-study the core game controls-mechanics just to have a chance to have fun...
In my opinions games should offer an easy way into the basic gameplay and then become hard to master. For Honor fails to offer this to me.

Focus on learning the 4 cornerstones first. Light hits, Heavy hits, parry and guard breaking. If you can get a somewhat decent understanding of how these work, and get to a point where you feel comfortable with them, you can move on to dodging, combos, special attacks, gap closers etc. one at a time. I spent all day yesterday just getting the feel for basic combat, and this morning I spent practicing dodging and combos.

Zemus-
01-28-2017, 03:01 PM
Most fighting games are this way. but this is a hybrid game trying something new. Like a fighting game you have to put time in to even be decent but its very rewarding to do so. It has its issues don't get me wrong I have a lot of gripes about mechanics and balance issues combined with Gear stats but thats a topic for another thread but it all boils down to learning to play this is not like playing a FPS or a MOBA, It really is like playing Tekken or Street Fighter in a new gamespace and once people learn this they will do better

Xiellify
01-28-2017, 03:15 PM
That's what I felt too at the start, I was kinda overwhelmed - in a good and bad way - like I just wanted to jump into the fray and kill people but I don't know what I'm doing lol; and it didn't help that the controls where new for me to get used to (I'm using M+K). But it helped a lot learning the basics and playing the classes' movesets when I play vs AI in Duel/Brawl mode.

I agree with Zemus. It actually felt like playing those fighting games like Tekken where you need to learn combos and I am not one for playing those games because I suck at learning combos in those games (and all those characters having different combos *nosebleed*). But for For Honor, it's actually amusing so I am keen on learning.

XWLR
01-28-2017, 03:29 PM
Ubisoft themselves said they wanted to create an easy to learn hard to master combat system, which I guess is referenced in the title of this forum. It's quite obvious that they failed pretty hard with that and much of it comes down to the horrible tutorials.

I agree with the OP that a player should not have to specifically practice, in a way that is dry, repetitive and not fun. That's not what games are for, that's e-sport. Here getting a feel for the basic mechanics should occur as you play the game for fun, gaining experience naturally. I"ve been playing since the alpha in September, yet only now do I actually feel like I have a somewhat complete understanding of all the mechanics and what my heros are capable of. And it took an awful lot of sucking and getting destroyed until I could finally win duels without luck or the throw off cliff exploit.

Also, there are tons of special moves and abilities to keep in mind and without knowing them you are extremely vulnerable. This means that even as a beginner you should have read through the moveset of every hero and memorized everything to even have a chance. If you don't know that the Warden should not be attacked from top you'll get wrecked. The Raider (IIRC) will keep tackling you, and the Shugoki can just pick you up and break your back or something (which turns out to be and instant kill if he is on low health) and you won't learn how to counter these from the game, as all you see is the animation. You have to read their moveset and figure out how they do it. This means that an awful lot of studying needs to be done before you can be competitive, and memorizing movesets is not fun.

There should at least be a way to practice against the bot of all the specific heros, so if you want to practice your Warden vs Shugoki skills, or Raider vs Peacekeeper skills, you should be able to do it, as picking and counter-picking is not part of this game like in League of Legends, therefore your enemy is pretty much going to be random, so if you play let's say the Warden, you have to know how to play the Warden against every other possible heros.

Also, I'm not sure about this, but perhaps a feature limited duel mode without special moves and guardbreaks could be good for complete beginners to help get a feel of the basic mechanics without having to learn the full moveset of every hero and keeping in mind a bazillion of moves.

PhYcE-
01-28-2017, 05:16 PM
People need to focus a lot more on blocking at first. They get too attack Happy and lose sight of blocking..

RatedChaotic
01-28-2017, 05:37 PM
This game is not hard at all. There have been other titles very similar in the mechanics. If you have played them, you have an advantage. If you havent, ya your going to get owned until you get used to it. Also we dont have access to all the modes.

cahdar
01-28-2017, 06:31 PM
srsly? there are so many tutorials out there, in game are tutorials ... you can practice against bots - against bots that dont fight back - against bots that fight back in different levels, you can practice all the modes - you can see ingame every single damn attack and how to do it, you can read about every combo your class can do ..
my friend started killing ppl 1 hour after his first attemp - after 2 hours he won every duell so far...
ppl just suck and dont blame themself, its allways the game, the connection ...its too hard, too fast ...whatever...its so pathetic.

wtf is wrong with you guys, i really dont know where you see that this game is so hard??

and yes, its easy to learn, but hard to master.
if you really thinks its hard at the beginning, you should move on and play something simple.

TrickJester
01-28-2017, 07:20 PM
Now I have no way of knowing, but I would assume the single-player story mode would teach you everything you might need to know about basic fighting skills.

They should definitely improve their tutorial videos for specific characters though. You need to be able to fast foward or short-rewind when needed. You can pause it sure, but what if I want to watch the demonstration again? I have to rewatch from the beginning and wait for that part to come up.

These are minor complaints though. I enjoy researching characters and learning what they can do.

Moks1
01-28-2017, 07:24 PM
Play moar, git gud. Just keep trying, and stop complaning about something that is only an issue because you played one match and didn't wreck the battle field _

MrBananaMan123
01-28-2017, 11:29 PM
Like the title says I think the game has a way too high etry barrier in the beginning of the game. That pushes me away. I don't wanna feel bad playing the first 10 hours of a game.
Yeah your gonna say/think "l2p fkn noob". But thats the point: I don't wanna have to hardcore-study the core game controls-mechanics just to have a chance to have fun...
In my opinions games should offer an easy way into the basic gameplay and then become hard to master. For Honor fails to offer this to me.

I agree. I've been a gamer all my life and the best I can do at this point is wonder why this is:

1. The game fighting style is new to most people. Not everyone played, liked or got good at other paper/rock/scissor fighters like Chivalry. There is a steep learning curve to these.
2. The animations are slow and unresponsive. Don't get me wrong, the game looks great, but when I move my mouse around with no tactile feedback and cannot tell what I'm doing in the nano moment because of the sluggish (yes, realistic) animations, that makes the game even harder. It's like playing on the new TVs with really bad input lag.
3. Controls are difficult to pull off. I personally hate the mouse stance control... but what else can you do? It has and/or needs a compeltely new kind of control style that people are still getting used to.
4. It's hard to tell what's going on in the heat of the battle. Visual queues are not as apparent as they could be imo.

Combine all of these and I believe it's going to be a tough climb for the majority of the user base. I would take a cut in the realism department for a better overall responsive game.