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View Full Version : what city feels like Stalingrad right now?



jensenpark
01-15-2004, 06:23 PM
I'm in Ottawa...right now it's -29 Celcius/-43c with windchill(about -19f or -26f with wind chill).

My computer room is poorly insulated so I feel completely "immersed" in the winter part of a campaign right now...

http://images.ucomics.com/images/doonesbury/strip/thecast/duke2.jpg

"Death before unconsciousness" - Uncle Duke

jensenpark
01-15-2004, 06:23 PM
I'm in Ottawa...right now it's -29 Celcius/-43c with windchill(about -19f or -26f with wind chill).

My computer room is poorly insulated so I feel completely "immersed" in the winter part of a campaign right now...

http://images.ucomics.com/images/doonesbury/strip/thecast/duke2.jpg

"Death before unconsciousness" - Uncle Duke

SkyChimp
01-15-2004, 07:13 PM
Wasn't it Leningrad that was freezing?

Regards,
SkyChimp
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Speco
01-15-2004, 07:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SkyChimp:
Wasn't it Leningrad that was freezing?

_Regards,_
_SkyChimp_
http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/skychimp.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Both. And the battle for Moscow. And a load of other battles in the east. Germans didn't seem to like the Russian winter.

darkhorizon11
01-15-2004, 07:54 PM
haha Your not the only one. I'm in Grand Forks, North Dakota. Ive seen -60 Farenheit and I grew up on the east coast where it rarely got below freezing even on the coldest days. I know how the Germans must have felt!

Urist
01-15-2004, 08:15 PM
I used to live in Dawson Creek BC several years ago. It would get to about -30c and stay there for a month or so.

Eventually I got used to it, anything above -20 felt like summer. I remember the snow was almost gone in may or something so I put my sports car back on the road and went driving a ways out of town on some backroad. Didn't take long to find a meter deep snow drift across the road and bury my poor car in it. Only looked about an inch deep at before I hit it.

It dipped down to -30 here in Prince George for 3 or 4 days and I felt like I was going to die, it been 4 years since i'd seen that kind of weather.

I remember flying a mission in the russian fighter campaign in the original IL2, it was early morning with soup like fog during the dead of winter. You could only see the moonlight and sunrise as sort of a blue/yellow haze and couldn't see the ground above 300 meters. That was the first time a game actually made it look bloody cold outside, All we need now is for the windows to be frosted/fogged up when you first get into the plane at the start of a mission. Add in some frozen fuel lines, carb heat (or lack of it) and wing icing effects and well, welcome to the eastern front. Can't forget the frozen hydraulics on the german equipment.

jensenpark
01-15-2004, 08:17 PM
Mind boggling to think soldiers actually fought in this kind of cold...day after day...little shelter...next to no food.

http://images.ucomics.com/images/doonesbury/strip/thecast/duke2.jpg

"Death before unconsciousness" - Uncle Duke

DONB3397
01-15-2004, 09:26 PM
Good point. It's hard to imagine how these guys survived, let alone took part in combat around the clock. And how about bomber air crew, who spent 8-10 hours at 25,000+ in unheated, unpressurized cabins (-30F to -60F). The cold was so severe they had to crack the ice from their oxygen tubes to keep them clear. Ambrose, the historian, wrote you could always tell aircrew; they were the guys who had frost bite around their eyes where the mask and helmet didn't cover their faces. They looked like racoons, he said.

Winning isn't everything;
It's the only thing!
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JR_Greenhorn
01-15-2004, 11:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darkhorizon11:
I'm in Grand Forks, North Dakota. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hello from Fargo, darkhorizon11!
I'm accustomed to Minnesota winters, but there hasn't been a winter there in about 5 years. How long have you been in Grand Forks?

The German army is lucky they didn't have to start gelled-up Diesels when it was -20F out. Now that is fun!

jazman777
01-15-2004, 11:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jensenpark:
Mind boggling to think soldiers actually fought in this kind of cold...day after day...little shelter...next to no food.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Read _The Forgotten Soldier_ (if you haven't already) and it captures the desperation and numbed state of being there.

---
Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under - H. L. Mencken

MiloMorai
01-15-2004, 11:43 PM
Jenson, you a simple servant or in high tech?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Well it was not just German and Soviet soldiers who fought in freezing weather. There was a battle around the Choison Resevoir in Korea that had temperatures just as cold.

oops, forgot the Finns.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Lucius_Esox
01-15-2004, 11:53 PM
Imagine the Grand Armee of Napoleon,,,,,,,,,poor b*stards.
LOl Jenson now that is what I call going for realism. A more serious note though, if o/clocking things a really cold room is a BIG bonus http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

ELEM
01-16-2004, 01:10 AM
Volgograd, probably!

I wouldn't join any club that would have ME as member!

Skarphol
01-16-2004, 04:25 AM
Not many years ago, a russian and a german solider where found in northern Russia, close to the Norwegian border. They were laying in firing position towards eachother, just a few meters apart, both hiding behind some rocks. They both looked uninjurded, and seemed to have frozen to death.

Imagine the extreme suffering these soliders went through! Most of us knows how it is to freeze really bad. If you in addition are hungry, friends around you are getting killed, you are fighting thousands of kilomters from home and your equipment is malfunctioning.. the morale must have been extremely low..

Skarphol

p1ngu666
01-16-2004, 06:03 AM
yeah it was NASTY
i saw a thing on tv, a german soldier talkin about the war. one guy he knew had frost bite in his foot so bad, it didnt fit his boot, so he was walking aroound barefoot.

according to the book steel fist, the germans had winter equipment, but it didnt make it too the troops for various reasons http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

michapma
01-16-2004, 06:16 AM
Obviously, a lot of them didn't survive it. What's outrageous is that many people not only didn't appreciate it, but hated them for it, including their own countrymen.

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F19_Orheim
01-16-2004, 07:04 AM
Finnish Winterwar 39-40

http://virtual.finland.fi/finfo/images/wintwar10.jpg

Short Description (http://www.info.tampere.fi/a/amuri/tyot/winterwar.htm)

http://www.gbg.bonet.se/bjorta/F19banner.jpg (http://www.f19vs.tk)

BerkshireHunt
01-16-2004, 10:14 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jensenpark:
Mind boggling to think soldiers actually fought in this kind of cold...day after day...little shelter...next to no food.

The BBC recently broadcast a re- construction of war on the Eastern Front as recalled by one Henry Metalmann. Metalmann was a tank driver who took part in battles at Kursk, Rostov- na- Don, Stalingrad and many other places. He now lives in England. According to him, when the weather got really cold and the snow lay thick on the ground his commanding officer would order his men to clear peasants out of their houses in the nearest village. He remembers some of his more callous comrades shooting the peasants in order to occupy their hovels and eat their food. Metalmann said that on one occasion a man and his young son were kicked out into the snow so his crew could bed down in their house. The man said to him in Russian "You might as well shoot us- we'll die anyway- we have nowhere to go." They walked off into the snow. "I don't know what became of them", said Henry.
Don't delude yourself that the Germans were spending the night under canvass in thick snow. Would you? When there were villages in the area?
I'm not proud of it but if I'm perfectly honest with myself I'd probably have done the same- I would have felt guilty but when you're facing death from exposure your survival instincts take over. You commit casual brutalities like Metalmann describes. This is why the war in the East quickly became a merciless blood- fest And why so few German veterans want to talk about what happened.
A book on this theme was recently published in Germany; 'A Stranger to Myself'- the real life diary of an Eastern Front soldier who grew to despise himself because of what he had participated in. He did not survive the war and his diary has only just been released for publication by his family.

DuxCorvan
01-16-2004, 01:47 PM
My uncle's father was a Spanish volunteer fighting against Russians with the Wehrmacht. He was in the Ilmen Lake campaign. He lost his left lung due to extreme cold air, and he was lucky. All men in his company were captured -and imprisoned in a gulag for ten years- killed, or died from freeze and hunger.

He was a silent, bitter man, lacking any sense of humor. My uncle was born after the war, but his mother used to say her husband was never the same man after his return. God knows what he had to stand.

- Dux Corvan -
http://www.uploadit.org/DuxCorvan/Altamira2.jpg
Ten thousand years of Cantabrian skinning.

jensenpark
01-16-2004, 01:57 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MiloMorai:
Jenson, you a simple servant or in high tech?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Well it was not just German and Soviet soldiers who fought in freezing weather. There was a battle around the Choison Resevoir in Korea that had temperatures just as cold.



Milo: neither a snivel servent or hi-tech...I'm a hotel manager. This I believe this really the world's oldest profession. Had to be hotels to rent to the ******s... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Had an uncle in Korea...but he was a tanker so I think he got off a bit easier.

Everyone here has made some great contributions and added insight...thank you.

Easy to see (and for some reason easy to forget) why war becomes so brutal. Maybe our inherent nature to believe in the good of fellow man makes us forget the horrible things done to eachother?

http://images.ucomics.com/images/doonesbury/strip/thecast/duke2.jpg

"Death before unconsciousness" - Uncle Duke

MiloMorai
01-16-2004, 02:02 PM
Ok, you pass inspection for not being simple snivel servant.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Does that mean your hotel is down in the Byward Market area, err Lower Town? (Sussex and Rideau??)

buz13
01-16-2004, 02:06 PM
Volgograd - absolutely feel the same.

jensenpark
01-16-2004, 04:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MiloMorai:
Ok, you pass inspection for not being simple snivel servant.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Does that mean your hotel is down in the Byward Market area, err Lower Town? (Sussex and Rideau??)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Close...more downtown - on the Senate building side of Parliament

How do you know so much of Ottawa?

http://images.ucomics.com/images/doonesbury/strip/thecast/duke2.jpg

"Death before unconsciousness" - Uncle Duke

jazman777
01-16-2004, 04:02 PM
I'd say Volgograd.

---
Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under - H. L. Mencken

jensenpark
01-16-2004, 04:52 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jazman777:
I'd say Volgograd.

---

Can't find Volgograd, but St Petersburg (old Leningrad) is -1c right now.
Ottawa is -16c (-27c with windchill).
Who needs armed forces with weather like this to protect you?

http://images.ucomics.com/images/doonesbury/strip/thecast/duke2.jpg

"Death before unconsciousness" - Uncle Duke

SKULLS Virga
01-16-2004, 05:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Skarphol:
Not many years ago, a russian and a german solider where found in northern Russia, close to the Norwegian border. They were laying in firing position towards eachother, just a few meters apart, both hiding behind some rocks. They both looked uninjurded, and seemed to have frozen to death.

Skarphol<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does anyone have more information on this? It sounds very interesting...

jazman777
01-16-2004, 05:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jensenpark:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jazman777:
I'd say Volgograd.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
---

Can't find Volgograd<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Heh heh, Volgograd used to be Stalingrad...

No601_Bigbyte
01-16-2004, 05:17 PM
Is this board finally coming of age? At last grown up discussion of adults topics with humility and understanding.

S!

jensenpark
01-16-2004, 05:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jazman777:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jensenpark:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jazman777:
I'd say Volgograd.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
---

Can't find Volgograd<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Heh heh, Volgograd used to be Stalingrad...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know...I just couldn't find it on the weathernetwork.ca for its temperature.

http://images.ucomics.com/images/doonesbury/strip/thecast/duke2.jpg

"Death before unconsciousness" - Uncle Duke

FuryFighter
01-16-2004, 06:22 PM
hmmm well... I can tell ya's one thing... its feels like I'm in the mediteranean or african conflict right now lol

http://www.angelfire.com/space2/messerschmitt262/sig_test.jpg

Skarphol
01-17-2004, 10:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Virga:
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does anyone have more information on this? It sounds very interesting...[/QUOTE]

Hi! I read it in a magazine, maybe 3 years ago or so. Not much of a source to brag about. I'll, try to find out more, but now I'm off to a party! It's saturday night in Oslo...

Skarphol