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sukebeboy
03-03-2004, 11:12 PM
Once again, Maddox and co. have completely ignored the wishes of the offline community. Nothing has been fixed. The dynamic campaign still doesn't work, your wingmates still shoot holes in you while trying to get at the enemy, planes still plough into the ground while following waypoints, bombers and fighter escorts still don't link up.

It's very frustrating. Why don't you address this? Every time a new patch comes out, I dutifully install it only to discover that, as always, nothing is done to fix the horrible errors in the single player game. Everything is geared towards online play. Therefore, I grumble here to no avail and stop playing the game until the next patch. As the patches were free, I couldn't really complain too much (although I feel I have the right to as the original IL2 FB was released too early and was and is full of bugs). However, AEP is a pay add on and NOTHING HAS BEEN FIXED. I am very greatful to my friend for letting my try this expansion out in the store rather than having to purchase it. I aved myself 4,000 yen as I will not buy this product.


Please fix the errors in the dynamic campaign.

sukebeboy
03-03-2004, 11:12 PM
Once again, Maddox and co. have completely ignored the wishes of the offline community. Nothing has been fixed. The dynamic campaign still doesn't work, your wingmates still shoot holes in you while trying to get at the enemy, planes still plough into the ground while following waypoints, bombers and fighter escorts still don't link up.

It's very frustrating. Why don't you address this? Every time a new patch comes out, I dutifully install it only to discover that, as always, nothing is done to fix the horrible errors in the single player game. Everything is geared towards online play. Therefore, I grumble here to no avail and stop playing the game until the next patch. As the patches were free, I couldn't really complain too much (although I feel I have the right to as the original IL2 FB was released too early and was and is full of bugs). However, AEP is a pay add on and NOTHING HAS BEEN FIXED. I am very greatful to my friend for letting my try this expansion out in the store rather than having to purchase it. I aved myself 4,000 yen as I will not buy this product.


Please fix the errors in the dynamic campaign.

Mitlov47
03-03-2004, 11:21 PM
Have any more maps been added to the QMB?

---------------------------

"I hear the roar of a big machine; Two worlds and in between.
Love lost, fire at will; Dum-dum bullets and shoot to kill.
I hear dive bombers and Empire down, Empire down..."
--Sisters of Mercy

Overwhelming odds mean nothing compared to heroism and tenacity. Fly blue and white: Finnish Brewster Model 239 and Israeli BF-109.

OberstWileyII
03-03-2004, 11:21 PM
It appears Oleg DID get greedy, his team got lazy, and UBI reasserts its claim to total incompetency...

It's called killing the Goose to get the Golden Eggs... They F$%KED UP..

p.s>, YOU NEED TO BUY oLEG'S fRIENDS(BUSINESS ASSOCIATES) OTHER PRODUCT FOR ANOTHER $30..bATTLE OVER eUROPE...IF YOU WANT TO FLY YOUR sPITS ON TEH wESTERN fRONT IN A CAMPAIGN..mayBE..

iT'S A SCAM THEY PULLED..

http://imagehost.auctionwatch.com/preview/wi/wileycoyote2/IwoJimatiny2.gif (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Movies/SandsOne.WMV)
Click Flag-Raising to see full length version. Click HERE to Visit Wiley's WWII GunCam World (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Frameset/)

Voskhod5
03-03-2004, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by OberstWileyII:
It appears Oleg DID get greedy, his team got lazy, and UBI reasserts its claim to total incompetency...

It's called killing the Goose to get the Golden Eggs... They F$%KED UP..

p.s>, YOU NEED TO BUY oLEG'S fRIENDS(BUSINESS ASSOCIATES) OTHER PRODUCT FOR ANOTHER $30..bATTLE OVER eUROPE...IF YOU WANT TO FLY YOUR sPITS ON TEH wESTERN fRONT IN A CAMPAIGN..mayBE..

iT'S A SCAM THEY PULLED..

http://imagehost.auctionwatch.com/preview/wi/wileycoyote2/IwoJimatiny2.gif (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Movies/SandsOne.WMV)
Click Flag-Raising to see full length version. Click HERE to Visit Wiley's WWII GunCam World (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Frameset/)



SHUT THE F*CK UP ALREADY, WILL YA!?

Seriously, your Oleg bashing campaign is getting OLD fast!


---------------------------
BlitzPig_Voskhod

http://airbase.uka.ru/hangar/planes/pix/su27vsf15.jpg

ElfunkoI
03-03-2004, 11:24 PM
Holy cow, I didn't know that was the game I was playing. Earlier I was actually having fun. I'll have to put a stop to that now, since I foudn a generic whine post.

"A6?:):):) Will be A6!"

Bearcat99
03-03-2004, 11:26 PM
There are issues...but Im having fun... I dont know whats up with you guys.......

LEXX_Luthor
03-04-2004, 12:39 AM
Bear, its the USA kids.

necrobaron
03-04-2004, 12:45 AM
USA kids don't have 4000 yen.;) Anywho,I think AEP is great so far. Emitton, we now have the Pacific map in the QMB.

"Not all who wander are lost."

Red_Russian13
03-04-2004, 12:48 AM
Sure, the offline stuff could be better (campaign stuff), but I'm enjoying it regardless. My imagination is limitless, therefore, QMB isn't a problem.

CoSWill
03-04-2004, 01:01 AM
sukebeboy.......why don't you try flying online, it's great fun. Shooting at aircraft that are controlled by real people is much better than dogfighting with a plane that just flies in a circle. Try it you might find something you like. There are squads that fly missions they created, join one of them and experience the game the way it was meant to be played.

hobnail
03-04-2004, 01:07 AM
Honestly, Oleg busted into my house, marched me down to the EB at gunpoint and forced me to buy it!!

Waaaaaah

http://users.on.net/apoulos/webbanner.jpg (http://www.jg11.com)

LuckyBoy1
03-04-2004, 01:24 AM
The sad truth is people are willing to PAY for more planes, nifty eye candy and maps. They WON'T pay for the fixes you've mentioned. I'm not saying it is right. I'm just saying it is the way it is!

Solutions for internet security & spyware problems... http://www.geocities.com/callingelvis911/s_s.html

Luckyboy = Senior hydraulic landing gear designer for the P-11 & Contributing Editor to Complete Users magazine.

sukebeboy
03-04-2004, 01:44 AM
CosWill;

I understand that you enjoy the online aspect and that holds true for a lot of people, not just for this game, but for most PC games out there. Online play just doesn't interest me. I've tried it before with IL2 and many other games and I find it too repetative for my tastes. It's kind of like playing with guns as kids, running around yelling "I got you" over and over again but without the benefit of exercise. Also, my past experiences almost always involved some random idiot showing up, insulting everyone, attacking his own team, etc. Not my cup of tea at all. People often say "oh, you just aren't playing with the right people or you haven't downloaded the bast mods/maps" I don't know. I hear that Tony Hawk 4 is a fantastic skateboarding game but, as I have no interest in sakteboarding, I dont see why I'd want to play that either.

I suppose joining a co-op game or a clan might be better, but if I'm going to go to the trouble of arranging times and dates to meet people, I'd rather just meet my friends at the bar.

I'm glad you enjoy the multiplayer expereince. I surely would like to enjoy the single player experience without having to resort to building my own missions or downloading someone else's work.

LEXX_Luthor
03-04-2004, 01:48 AM
Actually, I am offwhine player, but I make do.

LEXX_Luthor
03-04-2004, 01:54 AM
You have to know FMB to be Happy playing offwhine. I am Ace mission sculptor, but I can't fly, and I shoot worse. :(


__________________
"You will still have FB , you will lose NOTHING" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
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madsarmy
03-04-2004, 02:08 AM
UQMG

DCG

http://mysite.freeserve.com/fbscreenshots/images/0-picture.jpg

"LOOK MUM NO HANDS!"

Gershy
03-04-2004, 02:48 AM
Originally posted by sukebeboy I aved myself 4,000 yen as I will not buy this product.



Hold on,... 4.000 yen....hmmm...i guess that means that AEP is on sale in Japan as well already???? Could anyone tell me why they release it in the US and Japan and not in Europe???? *jumps hysterically and waves at UBI* First we have to invent all those nice planes and even make some secret projects and then...what? you take our precious Mes and FWs and sell them all over the world but not here..............i want to plaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy......aaaaaaaaaaaargh.....those voices...can't you hear those voices....heeelloooo....no one here....my head...all in my head....lalalala....


:P

buz13
03-04-2004, 03:08 AM
I like it....having fun.....but then I'm not perfect either.

Huxley_S
03-04-2004, 03:22 AM
I play offline most of the time and I've got absolutely nothing to complain about... other than how frickin' hard some of the missions are ;)

Would I prefer it to be easier? No.

All those things being said about planes crashing into eachother and AI wingmates shooting at you... get real, in War there are accidents and friendly fire incidents all the time. It would be unrealistic if these things _did not_ happen.

Quit whining... download some missions... buy BoE if necessary. If it costs $60 for Aces and BoE then it is still worth it... this game gives you more hours of gameplay for your dollar than any other game I've played ever.

Blottogg
03-04-2004, 03:28 AM
Sukebeboy, thanks for the info. I'd been cautiously hoping the Ai would graduate to a captial "I", but it doesn't sound like it.

Not to put words in Oleg's mouth, but given his attention to other details, I can only assume that there are certain Ai behaviors that can't be fixed within the current sim engine. Reading other posts, it seems that the Ai tactics have at least been improved for B&Z aircraft (someone posted about fighting Ai Lightnings who would yo-yo against his player flown IAR-81, which is something I haven't seen the Ai do in FB.)

Even with the seemingly uncureable "sim-isms" you mentioned, I'll probably still get AEP. I'll enjoy the new aircraft, and learn to live with fighting the Ai programming, and not always dogfighting realistically.

As a frequent Ai griper, I'll ask a couple of Ai questions to those with the game. Do the Ai pilots still have 360 degree vision through clouds and their own aircraft, or can you sneak up on them now? Do they still have a hard time pulling lead from low deflection? Do the Ai 109 drivers still try to stall-fight with I-16's? Any other Ai observations you've noticed?

Blotto

"Speed is life." - Anon
"Sight is life. Speed is merely groovy." - "Junior"

CrazySchmidt
03-04-2004, 03:56 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by OberstWileyII:
It appears Oleg DID get greedy, his team got lazy, and UBI reasserts its claim to total incompetency...

It's called killing the Goose to get the Golden Eggs... They F$%KED UP..

p.s>, YOU NEED TO BUY oLEG'S fRIENDS(BUSINESS ASSOCIATES) OTHER PRODUCT FOR ANOTHER $30..bATTLE OVER eUROPE...IF YOU WANT TO FLY YOUR sPITS ON TEH wESTERN fRONT IN A CAMPAIGN..mayBE..

iT'S A SCAM THEY PULLED..

Hey OberstWileyII, stick to cheap gun camera inpressions, your baby whinning impressions are becoming a very large yawn!!!

CrazySchmidt.

Have been here from the beginning, will be here till the end!

SeaFireLIV
03-04-2004, 04:15 AM
Actually, I`ve not had this great AI problem Sukebeboy mentioned in FB as it is, I never saw it as as bad as some have whined, so I don`t believe I`l find AEP AI any worse. And the Spitfire IS useable in the Russian Campaign which is good enough for me, because it means I can fly the Spitfire offline. It doesn`t have to be on the Western front, in fact I PREFER it this way, to see the Spit helping out another Nation for a change.

But then again I don`t fly a sim for 24 hours and say it`s rubbish without giving it a proper go, meaning a week or 2 at least. when I got CFS3, I gave that 2 months, before I panned it!

I will test the sim when I`ve got it. But Sukebeboy your complaint is TOO SOON! What after 1 day? Your complaints are NOT valid till properly tested!

And Oberst Wiley... What`s happened to you? You can`t have tested the whole AEP already to sound so bitter. I always enjoyed your site and you seemed an easy going chap. I remember you posting good natured comments and screenshots on FB when that first arrived. It was great to see while we waited for our copy... Without more time and proper testing your rant is also uncalled for and disappointing.

I think I may now stay away from this forum for a while....

tonywijaszko
03-04-2004, 04:22 AM
I play exclusively off-line, i often wonder if I am playing the same game as others, are you sure you are playing FB, for minimal cost, what do you guys want, off-line has terrific support, tech from the likes of SteveV, Hunter,PFCoastie, Campaigns from ExtremeOne and many others on this forum, Gaston Obelisk and the guys on Check-Six, UberDemon, for un-limited mission options, QMT to customise missions further, IL2 skins, un-limited skins, IL2 Mat, all these things are free, and take countless hours of work by the makers!

Pls excuse me for not mentioning other individuals, supporting the game for free they are far too many to mention, I thank them all I have NEVER been disapointed by either a utility or a campaign I have d/l for free, most are exceptional work. I have approx 40 d/l campaigns all free, I would ask the question again, VFM or not?

******************************

RAF 307 Free Polish Night Fighter Squadron

http://img26.photobucket.com/albums/v79/Tony_Wizzz/il2/RAF%20307%20Squadron%20Wijaszko/

AWL_Spinner
03-04-2004, 04:51 AM
Ach, there's that high-pitched noise again, it just won't stop.

Now, to be fair I've only played a couple of offline campaigns and they've been third party. I don't know how much overlap there is, but surely the AI behaviour will be the same. With reference to Extreme_One and Poymando's RAF campaign, I have been AMAZED at how clever the AI actually is in this game (having previously been an almost exclusively online player).

The only time I've been shot in the back was by a Frenchman in a Morane, and to be fair I did kind of wander into his fire. I've collided with a wingman once, and it was my fault. Bear in mind there were A LOT of friendly fire incidents in real life, and once in fifty odd missions is actually pretty good!

I've seen my wingmen take time to position themselves for headon attacks against formations of Heinkels; I've seen them adopt split pair tactics to draw enemies into a trap; I've marvelled at their close formation skills and their responses to my instruction; I've never seen aircraft fly into the ground without damage. I've never seen AI pilots this clever and adaptive in any sim.

Perhaps some of your points are down to the campaign writer's abilities rather than the game, I've certainly been hugely impressed with the campaigns I've flown and appreciate the sheer volume of work that goes into them. Multiplying that by all the campaign options in the game is bound to introduce a few eccentricities through sheer volume. Try some of the third party offerings maybe?

I certainly don't think it's a fair criticism of the game in general, which is capable of amazing things in the right hands.

Just my tuppence.

Cheers, Spinner

Recon_609IAP
03-04-2004, 04:59 AM
More and more complaining.

1. this is mostly an addon, consisting of 3rd party modders who created new models for us to enjoy.

2. Another engine is underway - Oleg has constantly over and over again said, issues like this - it is better to include in the next engine rather than continually try to make perfect an engine that isn't suited for it.

Meanwhile - people in here continue to bash and ask for things NEVER promised of this addon. Where was fixing the offline AI behavior said to be 'fixed' in this addon of new aircraft?

You have missed the mark - you fail to understand, but simply come in here and mouth off.

Tell me what game gives you so much for little $?

In addition, they promise free patch with even more.

Go play another sim if this doesn't suit you - but to come here and act all rude with no manners is to unbecoming to the author of this game who has put a tremendous amount of work into it for our pleasure.

S!
609IAP_Recon

http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg
Agnus Dei, Qui Tollis peccata mundi, Miserere nobis. Dona nobis pacem
http://www.jarsofclay.com/

rgoodrich1978
03-04-2004, 05:55 AM
Hold on,... 4.000 yen....hmmm...i guess that means that AEP is on sale in Japan as well already???? Could anyone tell me why they release it in the US and Japan and not in Europe???? *jumps hysterically and waves at UBI* First we have to invent all those nice planes and even make some secret projects and then...what? you take our precious Mes and FWs and sell them all over the world but not here..............i want to plaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy......aaaaaaaaaaaargh.....those voices...can't you hear those voices....heeelloooo....no one here....my head...all in my head....lalalala....

Prolly was manufactured and shipped from there. You've heard of outsourcing I imagine.

Jumoschwanz
03-04-2004, 07:46 AM
I have a nice mission I have made with the FMB and my 109s link up with and protect a flight of He-111s very well against a group of Hurris.

When something doesn't work for me in FMB it is always solved with some creative manipulation on the map. This is part of the fun for me.
And I have flown the campaigns and have seen problems in them too, I just guess they did not have as much time or set them up as well as they could. Maybe you could load the campaign maps in FMB, fix them somehow? Then let us know what you did. I don't do much campaigning myself. I would rather make my own missions or fly against other virtual pilots online.


Jumoschwanz

Punik
03-04-2004, 08:15 AM
I have to so totally agree with AWL_Spinner and Recon_609IAP, that I need to say nothing more.

------------------------------------
Online cheating kills online gaming! Death to all online cheating suckers!

Greetings to all who fly better than me, honor to all who ate my lead. ;):)

JimRockford
03-04-2004, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by sukebeboy:
CosWill;

... Online play just doesn't interest me. I've tried it before with IL2 and many other games and I find it too repetative for my tastes. It's kind of like playing with guns as kids, running around yelling "I got you" over and over again but without the benefit of exercise. Also, my past experiences almost always involved some random idiot showing up, insulting everyone, attacking his own team, etc.


Well, online play is certaintly less repetitive
as far as opponets style and behavior as single player. I've found the 'idiot' factor you speak of in on-line play to be almost non existent in IL2. A good online COOP mission is more fun than a mission vs the AI any day, and while you can learn what the AI will do in a dogfight, you never really know what a human player will do, again making is less repetitve, not more as you state. I play off line too though, and while there are some issues, I believe you have greatly exagerated some of them. We are all entitled to our opinions, but we should all strive to fair and accurate in our publicly stated negative appraisals.

essemm
03-04-2004, 08:51 AM
The only time I've been shot in the back was by a Frenchman in a Morane, and to be fair I did kind of wander into his fire. I've collided with a wingman once, and it was my fault. Bear in mind there were A LOT of friendly fire incidents in real life, and once in fifty odd missions is actually pretty good!

I've never seen aircraft fly into the ground without damage.

Let me start this off by saying that I love FB. A lot. I continue to play it long after other games have come and gne off of my HD.

That being said, AWL_Spinner...if you have not been shot in the back by wingmen, or seen completely undamaged wingmen fly into small hills on approach, or collided with wingmen while maneuvering...then you haven't played the game enough.

I am playing a campaign right now. Last mission, I took a flight of 8 Yak 1s up against a flight of BF110s. We decimated them. One of ours was shot down in combat, but they lost 6 aircraft in A2A combat. We headed home.

On the way home, two aircraft collided, killing both. Then, on line-up, I watched as the rest all approached a hill and at the LAST SECOND tried to pull up to avid the hill. They didn't make it. Like lemmings, they all smashed into the hill. Only one had any visible damage.

Certainly lacking the I in AI isn't it. We should call it AS...artificial stupidity.

http://server3.uploadit.org/files/141103-warloch_small.jpg

clint-ruin
03-04-2004, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by essemm:
That being said, AWL_Spinner...if you have not been shot in the back by wingmen, or seen completely undamaged wingmen fly into small hills on approach, or collided with wingmen while maneuvering...then you haven't played the game enough.

Wingmen flying into hills is the only thing you listed in your post that I would directly attribute to AI.

Best look at DCG/DGen for your waypoint / flight management issues, and your own flying for putting yourself in the line of fire. As you have been told already, friendly fire was not exactly uncommon, either from misidentification [something the AI -never- do] or from over-eager pilots trying to shoot past their own wingmen. Plenty of gun camera footage around that shows another friendly in the line of sight.

I don't know how hard it would be to make DGEN seperate/break up flights properly, but it's a piece of piss to do with the FMB. Mystery to me why this is considered an AI problem when the workarounds are so easy.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

MPortus
03-04-2004, 09:08 AM
The important thing is to have the planes, and AEP has plenty of them.

The community has the tools to create offline missions and campaings. And it does it brilliantly.

essemm
03-04-2004, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by clint-ruin:
Best look at DCG/DGen for your waypoint / flight management issues, and your own flying for putting yourself in the line of fire. As you have been told already, friendly fire was not exactly uncommon, either from misidentification [something the AI -never- do] or from over-eager pilots trying to shoot past their own wingmen. Plenty of gun camera footage around that shows another friendly in the line of sight.


Why should I look to third party software to fix the game? That seems assenine to me.

You are right...friendly fire did happen in WWII...but NOT EVERY TIME. And I didn't "fly into my wingman's line of sight". I had the position first, and the wingman joined on us...only to blast away right into me. I am sorry, but no matter how much you argue...that is not right.

I think that instead of giving me a bunch of extra planes, take 5 or so away and fix the AI. That would make me MUCH happier than 5 planes.

Of course the problem with that is that more people play online than not...at which point this becomes a moot point. So what is the best way to appeal to the majority...more planes. I am not stupid, I have an advanced business degree. I realise that it makes more business sense to appeal to the majority. That doesn't mean that I can't complain about it though :-)

http://server3.uploadit.org/files/141103-warloch_small.jpg

JR_Greenhorn
03-04-2004, 09:26 AM
I enjoy using the FMB a lot, so I have definately seen my share of AI-to-Ground collisions. Workarounds are usually easy if one doesn't get frustrated and just begins to try things. Once you start to figure out what it takes to make things work, you have a much better chance to get it right next time. For example, I had troubles once with a FMB mission I was working on; the AI would bank hard into a hill right after takeoff for some strange reason. I tried changing a lot of things with waypoints, but nothing seemed to help. Then, just to try it, I set the AI to take off in the opposite direction on that runway--problem solved. Everything ran smoothly after that.

I do agree that fixes like these shouldn't be necessary in stock or generated campaigns, but there is just too much at work to ship everything perfectly in a reasonable timeframe. Certainly it must be a minority of missions that have these problems.

J30Vader
03-04-2004, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by OberstWileyII:
It appears Oleg DID get greedy, his team got lazy, and UBI reasserts its claim to total incompetency...

It's called killing the Goose to get the Golden Eggs... They F$%KED UP..

p.s>, YOU NEED TO BUY oLEG'S fRIENDS(BUSINESS ASSOCIATES) OTHER PRODUCT FOR ANOTHER $30..bATTLE OVER eUROPE...IF YOU WANT TO FLY YOUR sPITS ON TEH wESTERN fRONT IN A CAMPAIGN..mayBE..

iT'S A SCAM THEY PULLED..



Ummmm, you have Normandy maps. You have the Ardennes. You have Berlin. You have Spitfires, B-17s, Mustangs, Thunderbolts, Lightnings, many LW craft.

So make your own campaigns. You know it can be done. It has been done.

But no, you would rather act like the nymphomaniac who lost the key to thr chastity belt.

Stay with 1.21. Or if you are that upset because you don't have West Front campaigns, go to EAW. It has what you want.

BuzzU
03-04-2004, 09:34 AM
I think the problem is the expansion was only $10 cheaper than FB. It gave us things we have gotten for free before, and some are spoiled on getting free stuff.

I'm a little confused on the addition of Japanese planes , and no compaign though.

Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------
http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v76/Jamnut/clark19.jpg

AWL_Spinner
03-04-2004, 09:43 AM
"That being said, AWL_Spinner...if you have not been shot in the back by wingmen, or seen completely undamaged wingmen fly into small hills on approach, or collided with wingmen while maneuvering...then you haven't played the game enough."

Essemm, as described, I mainly play online, but have played about eighty missions offline in two third party campaigns, all on full difficulty (if that makes a difference) in v1.22.

I have not seen the behaviour you describe once in over sixty hours of flight time. The only AI to ground collisions I have witnessed have been combat maneuver kills or damaged aircraft that cannot maintain height. I have seen a panic'd Heinkel plough into the underside of another whilst under fire but that certainly occured in real life.

Now given that you and I are both convinced of the truth we speak, I'm not doubting that these conditions can occur in campaigns, I'm saying they cannot be faults of the game itself and must be down to campaign design. Try some other campaigns!

Cheers, Spinner

Edit : Bah, this lack of UBB code really makes life difficult.

Bearcat99
03-04-2004, 09:51 AM
I look at it this way... I just paid $29 for every single add on to this sim above 1.0. Its worth it. These guys have to eat too. So far Ok.. Ive spent$110 on this sim..just software if you include BoE which hasnt arrived yet. I have gotten more enjoyment from this thing than I got from going to Di$ney World..OK? Im satisfied...and looking forward to the FREE add ons for this coming down the pike in addition to the next paid add on.

As far as the QMB... yeah it can be frustrating...but i think the way Oleg described it... it would take too much programming to put in the possible scenarios for each map... The FMB is not hard to use...it only LOOKSA intimidating. I was afraid of it for over a year then i dove in and was amazed at how simple it is. I am sure that in a week or two...maybe less UberD will come out with his updated UQMG which to me is the answer some of you offline guys are looking for. It has QMB simplicity with FMB power..... just what you want. If you havent tried it I suggest you doso.. Im going to test it out right now and see if it works with th AEP although Im sure i wont yet have access to the new planes.

Extreme_One
03-04-2004, 10:07 AM
I'm convinced that there will be some great offline campaigns/ missions using the new AEP plane-set coming soon.

The FMB is not that hard to get to grips with.

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the RAF campaign folder here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html).

Download the USAAF campaign folder here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html). *NEW* Updated for FB 1.21

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/simplysimon-raf_sig.jpg

adlabs6
03-04-2004, 10:56 AM
Sorry to hear the AI planes still tend to kill themselves in collisions and crashs. It probably wouldn't matter as much (aside from just being rediculous) if it didn't seem to affect your squadrons staff after so many repeated losses.

I've tried three times to make some headway in the He111 campaign and each time my flight size is reduced more and more because of AI deaths. It always seems my squadron is in dire condition becuase of lack of planes, sometimes there were only a handfull left to fly until again and again reinforcements were brought. I wonder if it is even possible to have a strong squadron in FB dynamic campaigns?

Anyway, I'm waiting to hear some word on the online campaign, as I still have high hopes for it.

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BfHeFwMe
03-04-2004, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by sukebeboy:
Once again, Maddox and co. have completely ignored the wishes of the offline community. Nothing has been fixed. The dynamic campaign still doesn't work, your wingmates still shoot holes in you while trying to get at the enemy, planes still plough into the ground while following waypoints, bombers and fighter escorts still don't link up.

It's very frustrating. Why don't you address this? Every time a new patch comes out, I dutifully install it only to discover that, as always, nothing is done to fix the horrible errors in the single player game. Everything is geared towards online play. Therefore, I grumble here to no avail and stop playing the game until the next patch. As the patches were free, I couldn't really complain too much (although I feel I have the right to as the original IL2 FB was released too early and was and is full of bugs). However, AEP is a pay add on and NOTHING HAS BEEN FIXED. I am very greatful to my friend for letting my try this expansion out in the store rather than having to purchase it. I aved myself 4,000 yen as I will not buy this product.


Please fix the errors in the dynamic campaign.

If it's a pay add on, and you haven't paid for it, whats your complaint? And Gee, you figured out all that out in one vist to a store. Yeah right.......................

sukebeboy
03-04-2004, 04:34 PM
Yes, one visit to the shop was all I needed to see that the dynamic campaign still had serious flaws. In four missions, I saw my AI wingman collide with each other 3 times, fly into a hill once, and shoot my plane from behind 3 times when I was the frontmost plane on the tail of an enemy. No, I was not suddenly crossing into their fire, that I could accept. I was on the tail of an enemy, trying to line up a shot for more than a few seconds when my AI wingmen would fall in behind me and fire at the enemy as though I were not there.

I complain because I want the game to function properly. For those of you who enjoy or at least tolerate fiddling around with the FMB, good for you. I don't have the time or the inclination to do so. I would just like to sit down and play for an hour or so in the evening, not devote my life to building missions just so I can play the game. I think expecting the DCGEN to show at least some slight improvement after the game has already been through numerous patches is a legitimate complaint, but I should have known better than to raise the issue in this haven for fanboys.

essemm
03-04-2004, 04:51 PM
Ok, here is proof that the AI is as dumb as a fence-post. I saved a track in which 7 or 8 friendlies fly into the side of a mountain.

Here's the TRK file:

members.rogers.com/sbmason/stupid_ai.zip

Check it out. It's worth a laugh.

http://server3.uploadit.org/files/141103-warloch_small.jpg

Huxley_S
03-04-2004, 05:00 PM
The best way to stop your AI planes crashing into eachother is to issue the "loosen formation" command.

AtomicRunt
03-04-2004, 05:00 PM
Sukebeboy...Understand your concerns, but if I can make one suggestion, try one of Ivan and Korolov's Co-ops on fri/sat nights. Great fun and well run...For the most part they add the realizm your trying to achieve with AI,

Salute!
AB AtomicRunt
http://www.execulink.com/~jesten/LogoABS.jpg

sukebeboy
03-04-2004, 05:26 PM
Atomic Runt. Thanks for the understanding, but as I've said before many, many times. I don't like online play. I just want to sit down for an hour or so and play the game how I want to play it. I don't want to go searching for the "right" bunch of people to play with, get into hassles over playing times (big problem as I'm in Japan), more hassles over what settings to use, etc. I just want to play the damned single player dynamic campaign and have it work properly.

Chuck_Older
03-04-2004, 05:34 PM
I just played an entire 60+ mission offline campaign on the Leningrad front...got hit by my wingman once, but I was vulching him because he just did it to me! I played every mision from take-off to landing, but I also used autopilot from time to time and still never had an AI collide into me or another AI, at least that I saw. One Me-262 somehow flamed out and landed in a river well before combat. that was about it for odd AI...that's not true, there was an AI FW 190A8 that was doing outside bank turns, until I blew him out of the sky. Very odd looking to see a plane in a 90* bank but turning in the wrong direction- the pilot was pushing on the stick, not pulling! But he didn't crash until his plane was on fire.

I tell my whole flight to loosen formation at least 4 times. Like Huxley said, it's key. Never once had a problem like you describe if I have them loosen up. I have had some interesting AI collisions in FMB, however!

*****************************
Wave bub-bub-bub-bye to the boss, it's your profit, it's his loss~ Clash

SeaFireLIV
03-04-2004, 06:49 PM
Exactly my experience, Chuck_Older I must`ve done hundreds of missions over 3 campaigns and in all of them I`ve been hit by friendlies maybe 3 times! 3 times in 3 entire Campaigns! Actually quite realistic. Sukebeboy has allowed himself to become FIXATED by this one thing until it`s clouded his thinking on the whole sim!

Use common sense, open formation. Break off if friendly shooting through you- Let them HAVE the kill, go for something else. although it won`t happen much!

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/P47duck.jpg

zoomar2
03-04-2004, 07:18 PM
My preordered copy won't show up at GameStop until the 8th @#$#^#@$#@%$! That's all I'm hacked off about.

All I'm spending the 29 bucks for is a bunch of new planes...and that's basically all that Oleg & co ever promised. As long as the look right, fly basically right, and I FINALLY GET MY JAPANESE LANGUAGE CHATTER, I'll be happy. I'll even live with all my Japanese pilots speaking German to fly a 38 and Spit. As a solely offline player - I can't coax more than 36 out of my modem - I find the QMB and FMB in FB as good as any other sim and the AI is no worse, either

arcadeace
03-04-2004, 07:21 PM
I also agree with SeaFire and Chuck. I've flown hundreds of missions and I really don't have the problem. I'm not a complainer and have had my share flaming them, but if I had those AI problems I also would speak out. Loosen them up. Granted it really shouldn't be necessary to prevent a lot of accidents but it does work. I'm like you my time is completely offline and anything that's neccessary for more realism keep in mind.

[This message was edited by arcadeace on Thu March 04 2004 at 06:37 PM.]

sukebeboy
03-04-2004, 08:11 PM
OK, using the "loosen formation" command is only valid if you are the flight leader. I like to start the campaign at the lowest rank and work up, so that doesn't help much.

It still doesn't address the other problems like bomber and fighter formations not linking up, bombers flying off to the target before you can even take off to escort them and getting slaughtered, or AI planes flying off the edge of the map. I've seen this happen a lot and it irks me that the developers won't take the time to fix it.

You can moan that I'm fixated or whatever. The point is, it should be fixed.

clint-ruin
03-04-2004, 08:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sukebeboy:
It still doesn't address the other problems like bomber and fighter formations not linking up, bombers flying off to the target before you can even take off to escort them and getting slaughtered, or AI planes flying off the edge of the map. I've seen this happen a lot and it irks me that the developers won't take the time to fix it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've seen you post this a lot, and I'd like you to show me how this is an AI problem.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

sukebeboy
03-04-2004, 08:33 PM
Well, as the AI is controlling both the bombers and the lead fighter and the mission requirements are for them to link up and fly to the target yet they don't, how would that be anything other than an AI problem?

uberweng
03-04-2004, 08:33 PM
Sukeboy,
If you live in japan (you talk about yen), how have you managed to play AEP? I didnt think it was available yet? IF you know where it is available could you please tell me as i also live in japan and would like to buy a copy.

Uberweng

sukebeboy
03-04-2004, 08:36 PM
uberwing, there are import copies at Laser 5 in Akihabara, near Ochanomizu station.

clint-ruin
03-04-2004, 09:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sukebeboy:
Well, as the AI is controlling both the bombers and the lead fighter and the mission requirements are for them to link up and fly to the target yet they don't, how would that be anything other than an AI problem?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The AI will do what they're told to do by the mission file.

Generally speaking, they need to be placed at the same time, same place, as their target for escort to link up, or otherwise set to manual waypoints that in some way shadow the bomber force.

If the .mis is not written properly, bad things happen. In any event, they will not magically find bombers that are over the other side of the map, nor link up and escort planes without being told.

Similarly, your collision problems are almost exclusively caused by having many aircraft in the same space during a waypoint change, and failing to seperate them by horizontal or vertical distance. For escorts, the escort speed for a 'set' escort should be set to at least 30-50kmh more than that of their escort target.

If you are flying a mission that does not take this into account, blame the mission, not the AI.

It should be mentioned that friendly collisions and failure of escorts to link up with their target bombers were also not exactly uncommon in the real shooting war, either.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

sukebeboy
03-04-2004, 09:49 PM
I realize English isn't my first language, but I thought I had progressed to a level where I could make myself understood easily. I guess I need to practice more.

I AM NOT DESIGNING THE MISSIONS!!!! IT IS THE DYNAMIC CAMPAIGN GENERATOR THAT IS DESIGNING THE MISSIONS WHERE THESE ERRORS OCCUR!!!

Is that clear enough or should I type slower for you?

owlwatcher
03-04-2004, 10:02 PM
All this complaining about off-line has some truth.
Flying off line does need alot upgrading.
This is not a complaint, just reality.
As to good mission building, It takes alot of time & patenice to setup good ones. I have spent weeks on setting them up to work as I had intended them to.
As to flying into hills, maybe during landing other wise it is just poor workmenship in mission building.
Clint-ruin post says it all way better then I can about mission building.
This game is moving on up at about the same pace as the computers to run it are.
I have made missions whose sole purpose was to bring my computer to it's knees. It really does not take that much to do so.It is not the software but the computer equipment.
This is not an easy game,most will never even see half of all it has to offer.
One thing about warfare, The best laid plans generally go to H-ll when the shooting starts.
Be Happy that Oleg & the comminty have always stayed with the game to make it better as time goes by.
Game Computer
Intel3000,Ati98 256,2 gig ram

BaldieJr
03-04-2004, 10:08 PM
Upgrade your pc?

I had lots of AI problems untill I got a new processor.

The AI is much more realistic, imho. They SUCK, compared to real humans, but they don't pull uber moves any more, and they seem to get spooked easily, like thier life is important to them.

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JG57_Moose
03-04-2004, 10:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OberstWileyII:
It appears Oleg DID get greedy, his team got lazy, and UBI reasserts its claim to total incompetency...

It's called killing the Goose to get the Golden Eggs... They F$%KED UP..

p.s&gt;, YOU NEED TO BUY oLEG'S fRIENDS(BUSINESS ASSOCIATES) OTHER PRODUCT FOR ANOTHER $30..bATTLE OVER eUROPE...IF YOU WANT TO FLY YOUR sPITS ON TEH wESTERN fRONT IN A CAMPAIGN..mayBE..

iT'S A SCAM THEY PULLED..

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just a quick note to all who hadn't noticed, the poster is OberstwileyII, not Oberstwiley (who owns the guncam site.) From the look of the caps and spelling I don't think it's him, just an imposter fishing for responses. Don't bash a good name unless you're sure it's him.

clint-ruin
03-04-2004, 11:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sukebeboy:
I realize English isn't my first language, but I thought I had progressed to a level where I could make myself understood easily. I guess I need to practice more.

I AM NOT DESIGNING THE MISSIONS!!!! IT IS THE DYNAMIC CAMPAIGN GENERATOR THAT IS DESIGNING THE MISSIONS WHERE THESE ERRORS OCCUR!!!

Is that clear enough or should I type slower for you?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know how hard it would be to make DGEN seperate/break up flights properly, but it's a piece of piss to do with the FMB. Mystery to me why this is considered an AI problem when the workarounds are so easy.

Best look at DCG/DGen for your waypoint / flight management issues

Similarly, your collision problems are almost exclusively caused by having many aircraft in the same space during a waypoint change, and failing to seperate them by horizontal or vertical distance.
...
If you are flying a mission that does not take this into account, blame the mission, not the AI.

Let's try this again.

I want you

to show me

how the problems you described

are anything

to do

with the AI routines.

As I said,

Wingmen flying into hills is the only thing you listed in your post that I would directly attribute to AI.

I've tried to be polite, so far, in pointing out that the problems you are having are to do with the way the missions are created, not with the AI. I realised that English is probably not your first language when you said you'd bought Aces in yen rather than dollars or pounds.

I'm pretty much running out of ways to describe to you what is happening and why, at this point.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

sukebeboy
03-05-2004, 01:59 AM
As I have explained already what the problems are and you keep harping on about how it's not the AI, but the missions at fault, I can only assume that you are being pedantic and nick picking over my use of the term AI. All right, I'll retract the phrase AI. There something seriously wrong with the single player game, (repeat pervious complaints, but don't mention AI). I would like it fixed.

Better?

essemm
03-05-2004, 05:07 AM
sukebeboy,

I actually agree with your point of view, but not your delivery. Many of these people are trying to help you, and you are coming across as a bit rude. These people are not the designers of the game, they are players, just like you. You should be happy, not angry, that they have decided to respond to your post at all. Maybe you can keep that in mind before calling them pandantic.

Cheers mate.

http://server3.uploadit.org/files/141103-warloch_small.jpg

widgeon
03-05-2004, 05:39 AM
I have found that setting the Number of planes in your flight=low, and random flights=max in my campaigns has virtually eliminated collisions with Dgen. This way the flights are more realistic, in that most sorties on the eastern front were in 2s or 4s. Here is the easiest way to adjust the above mentioned settings.

http://www.users.on.net/mjtm/IL-2/

This also lowers the chance of being picked off by one of your own. But sometimes, as you know, you just have to back off and let the wolf pack have its kill.

In DCG There were colllisions nearly every mission.

Sorry if you know all this.

Oh, and sometimes the AI will still do very stupid actions... then just relax, sit back and hum the tune from the Wizard of OZ (If I only had a brain...) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif


Widgeon

sukebeboy
03-05-2004, 12:29 PM
Thanks you so much widgeon for your post. This is exactly the kind of informatics that I can use. I have looked at the link you posted and it is a bit difficult for me to understand, but I think with a few hours of reading and liberal use of my dictionary, I may be able to make sense of it and implement the suggestions you spoke about in your post.

To essemm, I'm sorry if you think my delivery seems rude. I feel frustrated by the absence of patches from Ubi and the blind worship of the IL2 fanboys who jump on anyone with a legitimate complaint.

I felt that my posts were constructive in the criticism they mentioned and that I tried to provide actual examples of the problems I see in the DGN.

I actually couldn't understand what exactly clint-ruin was talking about at first. After rereading his posts, I felt that his opposite views to my viewpoint were nothing more than ad hominem attacks. As I said before, English is not my native language and sometimes I make mistakes. If that is the case this time, then I apologize, but I don't think it is. I really do belive he is being pedantic out of a misguided sense of loyalty to the game. I understand it (I do actually like the game, in spite of my contarary views) but I feel frustrated that he would blindly defend the game, using spurious tactics, rather than acknoledge that there are problems in the single player dynamic campaign.