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TheBearJew411
01-13-2017, 08:18 AM
I'm not sure what anyone can tell me with the NDA but in the most recent tech test was there a change to how deflections work on characters. The reason I ask is in the closed alpha it was way too easy to do. I sat and watched two Orochi basically have a deflection fight with one another for a solid thirty seconds until a conqueror came up and knocked one down. I hope something has been done to fix this as it was far too easy to perform.

Fatal-Feit
01-13-2017, 08:23 AM
Deflect is now performed by dashing into the attack at the right time, so the ability is no longer easy to execute and abuse. However, I would argue that it's obsolete now.

Although, I prefer obsolete than the OP ability it was.

TheBearJew411
01-13-2017, 08:26 AM
I think that is best you still have a full blown parry you can perform.

Fatal-Feit
01-13-2017, 08:31 AM
I think that is best you still have a full blown parry you can perform.

Parry is why I think Deflect is obsolete. There is no point in Deflect since Parry is better.

TheBearJew411
01-13-2017, 09:03 AM
It also makes the assassins the high skilled characters they are meant to be with the timed blocking and deflect not being easy to perform. Glad to hear a change was made.

CaptainPwnet
01-13-2017, 09:35 AM
Parry is why I think Deflect is obsolete. There is no point in Deflect since Parry is better.

The real reason it's obsolete is because the reward each assassin gets off a deflect is matched or outclassed by a simple side dodge attack that each of them have. Agreed it's better than it was before but as it is right now it's all flash no substance. Would like to see a tweak of some sort. No reason to risk timing a late dodge when you can just dodge normally and land an attack.

TheBearJew411
01-13-2017, 09:57 AM
well the Berserkers free guard break seems very useful because that is a guaranteed free light hit that if you can chain can lead into his dauntless passive can be very worth the deflect. That being said i can see how for Orochi it may not be worth it anymore.

CaptainPwnet
01-13-2017, 10:01 AM
well the Berserkers free guard break seems very useful because that is a guaranteed free light hit that if you can chain can lead into his dauntless passive can be very worth the deflect. That being said i can see how for Orochi it may not be worth it anymore.

Berserker can start his chain off his side dodge attacks. But yes the zerker is still the only one with a reason to deflect cause the guard break into forward throw does stamina damage making it situationaly useful to knock people down or off ledges.

TheBearJew411
01-13-2017, 10:05 AM
My thing is those side swipes can be baited and parried where the guard break is a guaranteed starter. You are absolutely right though about gaining stamina advantage using it as well as taking positional advantage.

Fatal-Feit
01-13-2017, 10:21 AM
The real reason it's obsolete is because the reward each assassin gets off a deflect is matched or outclassed by a simple side dodge attack that each of them have. Agreed it's better than it was before but as it is right now it's all flash no substance. Would like to see a tweak of some sort. No reason to risk timing a late dodge when you can just dodge normally and land an attack.

Yes, except for the Berserker, who gets a free guardbreak upon Deflect. Parry gives the Assassins both options (alongside a stamina boost and reduction for the opponent/s--and knockdown if theirs' deplete) with the same level of risk. It's also more resourceful in ganking situations since you can parry multiple incoming strikes.

You are not wrong to say that the dash attacks are better, though. There are a lot of better options and so I agree that there should be some sort of tweak for the ability.

Reaper_Sykko
01-13-2017, 11:03 PM
Deflect is now performed by dashing into the attack at the right time, so the ability is no longer easy to execute and abuse. However, I would argue that it's obsolete now.

Although, I prefer obsolete than the OP ability it was.

somthing i have been wondering since the last alpha but forgot to test it befor the alpha ended so now i have to wait till beta , unless somone in here knows the answer , im confused about the deflect , i need to dash in the attack's direction , what im wondering is if he attacks left and i have my guard on the right for example or the guard is down (since assassins dont have infinite guard) can i still dash to the left and it will work? or do i have to have the guard on the same position of the Attack + the right direction dash?

i know you dont have to renew the guard because ive already done it with my guard down but the thing is my guard was down but befor going down it was matching my oponents Attack direction , so i still dont know if only the dash direction matters or i need the right guard and the right dash direction , honestly i really hope its only the dash direction reguardless of the guard position because its really hard to get your guard up on time and do the dash right after. idk if i explained all that the right way , befor playing i didint even know that assassin guard goes down after a few sec.

Fatal-Feit
01-14-2017, 01:35 AM
The direction of your guard prior to dashing does not matter. But you know, now that you asked that, maybe I need to practice with Deflect in the upcoming beta. The purpose of Deflect now might be to counter light attacks. Some light attacks are usually too quick to Parry and certain situations won't allow the player to dodge with dashes. Maybe Deflect is meant to fill in the gap so high level Assassins won't ever have to use blocking in 1v1.

CaptainPwnet
01-14-2017, 01:40 AM
The direction of your guard prior to dashing does not matter. But you know, now that you asked that, maybe I need to practice with Deflect in the upcoming beta. The purpose of Deflect now might be to counter light attacks. Some light attacks are usually too quick to Parry and certain situations won't allow the player to dodge with dashes. Maybe Deflect is meant to fill in the gap so high level Assassins won't ever have to use blocking in 1v1.

Nah, it's simple enough to dash around light attacks once you get yourself more in the mindset of dodging as opposed to blocking. Wouldn't try it in outnumbered situations as solid blocking would be superior, but in 1v1 you can dance around you opponents pretty well with assassins. Deflects really don't add too much, they are just a flashy thing that happens now and then or you can do them on purpose if you feel like stylin'.

The exception being the zerker of course, he has a couple situational reasons that you could justify are worth the deflect.

TCTF_SWAT
01-14-2017, 06:14 AM
Hmmmmmm I'm not convinced I've seen everything deflects can really do. Then there's the beta.

TheBearJew411
01-14-2017, 06:33 AM
Hmmmmmm I'm not convinced I've seen everything deflects can really do. Then there's the beta.

If you played the closed alpha you would have seen a lot of what deflect can do. Like a lllllloooooootttttt

TheBearJew411
01-14-2017, 07:00 AM
Hmmmmmm I'm not convinced I've seen everything deflects can really do. Then there's the beta.

If you played the closed alpha you would have seen a lot of what deflect can do. Like a lllllloooooootttttt

TCTF_SWAT
01-14-2017, 07:23 AM
I didn't get a chance to play anything. Only videos. But once the drops I'll get to see for myself.

LayNRot
01-14-2017, 07:55 AM
You think i would be able to deflect the aggro my mom is giving me? Cant stop talking bout this game.

Dark-Thomy
01-14-2017, 07:56 AM
....People seem to think that now you have to dash in the direction to perform a Deflect, it will be harder...

I'm sorry, I think even pretty bad players will get used to it.
The only difference is that you can actually try to punish someone who started a deflect with the dash. (if you actually feinted)

XxKILLASEEDxX
01-14-2017, 08:05 AM
I'm not sure what anyone can tell me with the NDA but in the most recent tech test was there a change to how deflections work on characters. The reason I ask is in the closed alpha it was way too easy to do. I sat and watched two Orochi basically have a deflection fight with one another for a solid thirty seconds until a conqueror came up and knocked one down. I hope something has been done to fix this as it was far too easy to perform. I actually enjoy the idea of seeing 30 seconds of deflections, makes it more like the classic sword battle flicks this game draws its inspiration from.

Fatal-Feit
01-14-2017, 09:25 AM
....People seem to think that now you have to dash in the direction to perform a Deflect, it will be harder...I'm sorry, I think even pretty bad players will get used to it.The only difference is that you can actually try to punish someone who started a deflect with the dash. (if you actually feinted)Were you in the tech test? Because I don't know a single person who could make Deflect viable. It was A LOT harder to execute than before.

TheBearJew411
01-14-2017, 06:57 PM
I actually enjoy the idea of seeing 30 seconds of deflections, makes it more like the classic sword battle flicks this game draws its inspiration from.

If you had played the closed alpha and are saying that I am amazed.

Dark-Thomy
01-14-2017, 09:24 PM
Well. I might totally be wrong indeed.
We'll see how hard it is.

I sometimes parried attacks unintentionnaly... I suspect some players to do so, even bad ones.
Nothing is impossible..

XxKILLASEEDxX
01-18-2017, 06:01 AM
If you had played the closed alpha and are saying that I am amazed.
Well my friend BE AMAZED, I enjoyed this move very much in the alpha and felt it should've been nerfed jus not by making it more complex. Point being, in a real sword fight you sometimes get lucky and are able to block an incoming attack, not so much due to skill, but more so just off lucky reflex. The proper way to nerf the deflect ability would have been to make it take away your stamina, that way whether you were skilled enough or just lucky, after 5 or so consecutive deflections you would be unable to deflect or attack due to lack of stamina, thus making it a double edged sword, and forcing you to dodge/evade until regaining enough stamina to become offense again.

TheBearJew411
01-18-2017, 06:56 AM
Well my friend BE AMAZED, I enjoyed this move very much in the alpha and felt it should've been nerfed jus not by making it more complex. Point being, in a real sword fight you sometimes get lucky and are able to block an incoming attack, not so much due to skill, but more so just off lucky reflex. The proper way to nerf the deflect ability would have been to make it take away your stamina, that way whether you were skilled enough or just lucky, after 5 or so consecutive deflections you would be unable to deflect or attack due to lack of stamina, thus making it a double edged sword, and forcing you to dodge/evade until regaining enough stamina to become offense again.

The problem with that is 5 deflect counters and you are dead already. getting a lucky block is one thing but deflect gives you a huge advantage over your opponent in game. you should not be getting lucky deflects it should be a high skilled maneuver for advanced players only because of the advantage you receive for doing it. It should not be easy to perform at all.

Fatal-Feit
01-18-2017, 07:24 AM
The problem with that is 5 deflect counters and you are dead already. getting a lucky block is one thing but deflect gives you a huge advantage over your opponent in game. you should not be getting lucky deflects it should be a high skilled maneuver for advanced players only because of the advantage you receive for doing it. It should not be easy to perform at all.

Well said.

I posted this in another thread, but I'll post it again here. It's not the best example, but seriously, something like should not happen.

The Warden is clearly better at both defense and offense, especially with those parries, but the Orochi is easily keeping up by simply blocking. He literally brought the Warden's health bar to 1 by simply focusing on blocks. That should not be possible for an Assassin hero.

0:59


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuqIM20K61c

Also, Deflect was barely dependent on luck. It was just too easy to execute because you simply blocked the moment the attack is about to land. Heck, there are players who had difficulty trying to NOT Deflect all the time. There was a stream where HandheldBrando was trying to show off a move, but all he could do was perform Deflects instead of blocks. I'll be glad to dig it up if necessary.

TheBearJew411
01-18-2017, 07:33 AM
I have seen that where the running slash was bugged and if you disengaged lock after doing it and pushed away the Orochi would move well outside of any retaliation range and he accidentally kept deflecting the other players hit rather than blocking it outright.

xLeapingLizardx
01-18-2017, 09:08 AM
Also, Deflect was barely dependent on luck. It was just too easy to execute because you simply blocked the moment the attack is about to land. Heck, there are players who had difficulty trying to NOT Deflect all the time. There was a stream where HandheldBrando was trying to show off a move, but all he could do was perform Deflects instead of blocks. I'll be glad to dig it up if necessary.

This happened to me!! I was deflecting so much basically without trying. In a way it made the Orochi un-fun to play as. I was beginning to wonder if the Orochi could even block regularly. You basically always had to block at the last second (leading to a parry) with assassins because their guards never stayed in a position.

Also in duels I played against Orochi's where they would not attack at all... Not one bit! They just waited for me to attack so they could parry and insta hit me, rinse and repeat. Of course, as I continued to play the Alpha, I got used to them and was easily able to take them on.

XxKILLASEEDxX
01-26-2017, 01:46 AM
Well guys, I look forward to the Beta tomorrow where we can test this Deflect thing out and see the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly of its new mechanics.