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View Full Version : Maybe a "learner" seat, Mr Maddox :) ?



LIZ_taylor
09-11-2004, 05:00 AM
Mr Maddox

Could the Maddox Dream Team read my modest suggestion ? I hope...

Thinking to "how to quickly enhance newbies comprehension of the art of piloting" , i was wondering if it could be possible to create a special two seats school plane...

Explaination...
We have an online capability to fly with several players in the same aircraft, therefore, could it be possible to create or modify a tandem seats aicraft, in which "the learner" is modelised as usal at his place, and in which "the teacher" has the same camera's view on the flight controle panel but without any controle possibility, the camera of the "teacher" would be in that case the same than the "learner" but as "witness" and not as "actor", i suppose that it could be a marvellous inprovement that could help and motivate alot of learning pilotes that could be disgusted by veterans aptitudes...
That could be a special model of school aircraft, or simply a mono seat aircraft that could carry both pilotes at the same camera view...

What you think about that ?

PS; is any comercail delivery date in view ?, i did proudly preorder PF since august http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

[This message was edited by LIZ_taylor on Sat September 11 2004 at 04:12 AM.]

[This message was edited by LIZ_taylor on Sat September 11 2004 at 11:07 AM.]

LIZ_taylor
09-11-2004, 05:00 AM
Mr Maddox

Could the Maddox Dream Team read my modest suggestion ? I hope...

Thinking to "how to quickly enhance newbies comprehension of the art of piloting" , i was wondering if it could be possible to create a special two seats school plane...

Explaination...
We have an online capability to fly with several players in the same aircraft, therefore, could it be possible to create or modify a tandem seats aicraft, in which "the learner" is modelised as usal at his place, and in which "the teacher" has the same camera's view on the flight controle panel but without any controle possibility, the camera of the "teacher" would be in that case the same than the "learner" but as "witness" and not as "actor", i suppose that it could be a marvellous inprovement that could help and motivate alot of learning pilotes that could be disgusted by veterans aptitudes...
That could be a special model of school aircraft, or simply a mono seat aircraft that could carry both pilotes at the same camera view...

What you think about that ?

PS; is any comercail delivery date in view ?, i did proudly preorder PF since august http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

[This message was edited by LIZ_taylor on Sat September 11 2004 at 04:12 AM.]

[This message was edited by LIZ_taylor on Sat September 11 2004 at 11:07 AM.]

MEGILE
09-11-2004, 06:22 AM
Pretty good idea which i think others have thrown about before... I don't know of any two seat world war 2 era trainers, maybe others can enlighten me. This is currently possible in LO-MAC, with the developers testing ideas for future products etc, and it seems to work pretty well over there, so no doubt it could work very well over here.

http://www.5thairforce.com/e107_files/public/p51lightj.jpg
"Copper, you're smoking crack" - VF-11 Vadge http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

LIZ_taylor
09-11-2004, 12:03 PM
Well , the idea seams not so stupide , http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I'm trying to find some aircraft that could fit the era , but i think it could be more simple for Oleg's team to select an existing double seat plane in each camp and just deal with the camera view looking front instead of rear (i think to the gunner's place) , that way they should not recalculate any plane model but maybe just have to copy ...
The only thing that could make problem is "how to have a complete look to the panel?" maybe suppressing the inner garments or a glass view ?
What do you think ?
Anyway , the double command is not requested for the "teacher" but only a good view ...so...

[This message was edited by LIZ_taylor on Sat September 11 2004 at 11:12 AM.]

T_O_A_D
09-11-2004, 01:36 PM
i.a.r.80 two seat mentioned here (http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/farmer/120/iar.html)

Have you checked your Private Topics recently? (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=ugtpc&s=400102)
My TrackIR fix, Read the whole thread (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=49310655&m=15310285&p=1)
Commanding Officer of the 131st_VFW (http://www.geocities.com/vfw_131st/)
http://home.mchsi.com/~131st_vfw/T_O_A_D.jpg

Atomic_Marten
09-11-2004, 01:41 PM
Excellent idea! There was a lot of 2-seat trainers available to WW2 pilots. Below are some of them (source - 3 books; author David Mondey: 1.Axis 2.American 3.British A/C of WW2). But I don't know, seems to me that it will be tough job finding references to build 'em in-game...
________________________________________________
AXIS
Heinkel He-72 Kadett - 1933. 2 seat biplane designed primary as trainer.

Kyushu K11W Shiragiku - Nov 1942. bomber crew trainer.

Bf-109G-12 - Two-seat trainer version Gustav (this is IMHO the most interesting of all possible candidates for axis trainer).

Bücker Bü 133 Jungmeister - Highly aerobatic A/C. Although it was single-seat trainer, it was worth to mention it, because much of the Luftwaffe trainings was done on this A/C.

Bücker Bü 181 Bestmann - 2-seat trainer.
________________________________________________
ALLIED
U.S.
Beech Model 18 - Navigation and bombing trainer.

Boeing/Stearman Model 75 - Very interesting 2-seat trainer.

Brewster SBA/SBN - 2-seat carrier-based scout-bomber/trainer. (Also interesting for PF - Squdron VT-8 used it on board of USS Hornet).

Fairchild PT-19 Cornell - 2-seat primary trainer.

Ryan PT-22 Recruit - 2-seat primary trainer.

U.K.
Avro 626/Prefect - 2/3-seat multi-purpose trainer.

de Havilland D.H.82 "Tiger Moth" - Extremely interesting 2-seat elementary trainer and communications A/C.

Hawker Hart - Used in trainer role also in 2-seater ver.
________________________________________________
There is many also more trainers that WW2 pilots used in their training course, maybe someone can suggest also which types are used the most by certain operators.

I think that idea implemented in game, would add new depth to it. And no matter if you are a virtual flyer with or without experience. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LEXX_Luthor
09-11-2004, 06:11 PM
We already have basic trainer over the FB.

http://www.ctrl-c.liu.se/misc/ram/po-2-1-prev.jpg
~ http://www.ctrl-c.liu.se/misc/ram/u-2.html

But Oleg said 2 seat sharing controls will not be modded over the FB...maybe BoB hopefully.


interesting...U~2 manual http://aeropoxy.freeservers.com/Manuals.htm

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack ( AEP )

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Jetdoc_5th
09-12-2004, 04:03 AM
and for the American's how aboutthe Stearman

http://www.5thairforce.com/e107_themes/soar/images/logo.jpg

Philipscdrw
09-12-2004, 06:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
But Oleg said 2 seat sharing controls will not be modded over the FB...maybe BoB hopefully.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But the thread author didn't mention sharing controls - just sharing the pilot view. That can't be too complex. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

PhilipsCDRw
Grand Stenographer of the Boards.

View Cpt. Eric Brown's review of FB here (http://www.aerosociety.com/raes/news/SimReview.pdf) and discuss it here. (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=309109534&r=875101634#875101634)

"Nietzsche is dead." - God.

LIZ_taylor
09-12-2004, 04:33 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Correct Phillips ,

I did not mention any controle share but only camera share ! The goal is to view the instrument panel at the same time than the learner that way instructor may see the flight parameters and the learner "hand on stick" in real time , then may dispense any pedagogic comments to the "learner" ...
I said also that any kind of plane ,even not specialy created for it but with the right view could fit ! If Oleg's team had time to spend ,indeed , a dedicated plane for at least each side of the conflict would be great (a dream), but in my mind the real important thing is a "four eyes" panel view with only a "one hand controle" !

Von_Zero
09-12-2004, 05:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Atomic_Marten:
Excellent idea! There was a lot of 2-seat trainers available to WW2 pilots. Below are some of them (source - 3 books; author David Mondey: 1.Axis 2.American 3.British A/C of WW2). But I don't know, seems to me that it will be tough job finding references to build 'em in-game...
________________________________________________
AXIS
Heinkel He-72 Kadett - 1933. 2 seat biplane designed primary as trainer.

Kyushu K11W Shiragiku - Nov 1942. bomber crew trainer.

Bf-109G-12 - Two-seat trainer version Gustav (this is IMHO the most interesting of all possible candidates for axis trainer).

Bücker Bü 133 Jungmeister - Highly aerobatic A/C. Although it was single-seat trainer, it was worth to mention it, because much of the Luftwaffe trainings was done on this A/C.

Bücker Bü 181 Bestmann - 2-seat trainer.
________________________________________________
ALLIED
U.S.
Beech Model 18 - Navigation and bombing trainer.

Boeing/Stearman Model 75 - Very interesting 2-seat trainer.

Brewster SBA/SBN - 2-seat carrier-based scout-bomber/trainer. (Also interesting for PF - Squdron VT-8 used it on board of USS Hornet).

Fairchild PT-19 Cornell - 2-seat primary trainer.

Ryan PT-22 Recruit - 2-seat primary trainer.

U.K.
Avro 626/Prefect - 2/3-seat multi-purpose trainer.

de Havilland D.H.82 "Tiger Moth" - Extremely interesting 2-seat elementary trainer and communications A/C.

Hawker Hart - Used in trainer role also in 2-seater ver.
________________________________________________
There is many also more trainers that WW2 pilots used in their training course, maybe someone can suggest also which types are used the most by certain operators.

I think that idea implemented in game, would add new depth to it. And no matter if you are a virtual flyer with or without experience. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You forgort the FW-44 Stieglitz and the AT-6 texan http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
the only problem with adding a new trainer, would be that it have to be modeled. and implemented as a new aircraft... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
maybe this would be possible in BoB, or even better , in PF (aldough i doubt it)

http://www.d13-th.com/user/mytzu/RO4_16.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
09-12-2004, 05:28 PM
Ah, my mistake. Yes, sharing cockpit view would be Awsum. Interesting idea about pilots squeezing into one seat. The player at the controls could demonstrating what the view looks like during a good runway approach.

Still, the simple idea would be to just model normally some historic easy to fly trainers for the Newbies, and put a Quick Fly button on the basic menu so the Newbie would see it. I too would use that button alot, U~2 looks fun. Flyable U~2 should coming, hopefully in Patch-88, and a few years too late to help all of us when we were mere Newbies. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif



__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack ( AEP )

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

BaldieJr
09-12-2004, 09:59 PM
I have always loved this trainer. I have no idea why.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/modern_flight/at9.jpg

ooops

LIZ_taylor
09-13-2004, 08:58 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Do you imagine the Audio chats ?

Learner :"- I'm stalling..."
Instructor :"- Yep push the stick you'll recover speed then lift effect..."
L :"- RGRt ... pushing..."
I :"- Do you see the Variometer's needle climbing ?"
L :"- Yep sir..."

etc... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

I imagine an online dogfight map , where all did learn how to taxi , no more stupids scrambles into hangars or vehicules , I imagine pilotes from everywhere proudly taxiing in trail or landing safely after a free area visual check .

That way we could enhance the courtesy of dog fights and lower frustrations of a full bag of points vanished by collisions ! And maybe a more cooperative spirit that the older simmers of course http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif have http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

[This message was edited by LIZ_taylor on Mon September 13 2004 at 08:06 AM.]

[This message was edited by LIZ_taylor on Mon September 13 2004 at 08:09 AM.]

ELEM
09-14-2004, 07:30 AM
Oleg answered this question many years ago by saying it is just not possible to do in this game engine.

I wouldn't join any club that would have ME as a member!

http://img35.photobucket.com/albums/v107/Elem_Klimov/I-16_desktop.jpg http://img35.photobucket.com/albums/v107/Elem_Klimov/dhm_787_small.jpg