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View Full Version : People who fly the I-153?



ELITE1499
02-19-2004, 06:38 AM
I dont understand the mindset of people flying the I-153 online. Why? I personally think that the plane takes the absolute least amount of skill to fly. ABSOLUTELY THE LEAST. NO stalling, no energy management. JUST TURN. I mean, I'm not mad at people who fly them (I got show down several times by these planes early on but then as experience grew, I realized just how to counter them). I just want to know why? AND PLUS, ITS SOOOO SLOW. FINE FINE, IT CAN TURN AND BURN (ok maybe not burn) BUT IT IS SO SLOW THAT IT WILL NEVER CATCH AN ADVERSARY FLYING THE ENERGY FIGHT. ALL ONE HAS TO DO IS PUT DISTANCE, SPEED, AND ALTITUDE BETWEEN THEM AND THE I-153 IS MORE DEAD THAN A RAT TRAPPED IN A LIONS A$$. SO THE QUESTION IS THIS: WHAT THE FREAKING CRAP THE POINT OF FLYING IN THAT AMAZING AND AWESOME PLANE? THE I-153 IS SOO COOL. WOW. IT HAS GOOD FIREPOWER, AND ADEQUATE SPEED IN A DIVE. WOW THIS PLANES GOOD...

ELITE1499
02-19-2004, 06:38 AM
I dont understand the mindset of people flying the I-153 online. Why? I personally think that the plane takes the absolute least amount of skill to fly. ABSOLUTELY THE LEAST. NO stalling, no energy management. JUST TURN. I mean, I'm not mad at people who fly them (I got show down several times by these planes early on but then as experience grew, I realized just how to counter them). I just want to know why? AND PLUS, ITS SOOOO SLOW. FINE FINE, IT CAN TURN AND BURN (ok maybe not burn) BUT IT IS SO SLOW THAT IT WILL NEVER CATCH AN ADVERSARY FLYING THE ENERGY FIGHT. ALL ONE HAS TO DO IS PUT DISTANCE, SPEED, AND ALTITUDE BETWEEN THEM AND THE I-153 IS MORE DEAD THAN A RAT TRAPPED IN A LIONS A$$. SO THE QUESTION IS THIS: WHAT THE FREAKING CRAP THE POINT OF FLYING IN THAT AMAZING AND AWESOME PLANE? THE I-153 IS SOO COOL. WOW. IT HAS GOOD FIREPOWER, AND ADEQUATE SPEED IN A DIVE. WOW THIS PLANES GOOD...

repco
02-19-2004, 06:44 AM
Nurse! Tranquilisers please!

Fornixx
02-19-2004, 06:54 AM
Calm down and drop the caps-lock damnit!

SeaFireLIV
02-19-2004, 06:55 AM
I hardly ever fly the I153, simply because it doesn`t appeal to me. But if I`m on an open server a lot of people will grab them to counter me in the I16! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

F19_Orheim
02-19-2004, 06:57 AM
..becuase even if you only succeed ONE time in FORTY tries to down a 262, there is no comparison to that feeling http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/F19bannerA.jpg http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/F19banner.jpg

Capt_Haddock
02-19-2004, 07:09 AM
Because it's fun?

You know: games... fun... We do play these things to enjoy them. Don't we?

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/haddock/sig/F19bannerh.jpg
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/haddock/sig/F19banner.jpg

F19_Olli72
02-19-2004, 07:14 AM
Crap planes rules! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
You just have to try to understand that some ppl fly the planes they like for one reason or another... not just the planes with fastest speeds or biggest guns.

BaldieJr
02-19-2004, 07:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
..becuase even if you only succeed ONE time in FORTY tries to down a 262, there is no comparison to that feeling http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats a fact!

I-153 is a good training tool. It teaches you to think fast/react fast.

My server is running nothing but I-153's this week. The fights are damned hard. Some of the people who show up there are excellent pilots, and the fight like lions. Its good training, be sure.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

F19_Orheim
02-19-2004, 07:26 AM
WHat server is that Baldie?????? Would love to try it out!


"I Love The 30ies"

http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/F19bannerA.jpg http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/F19banner.jpg

S 8
02-19-2004, 07:26 AM
"So we´re different colours and we´re creeds,and different people have different needs"

Depeche Mode says it all...... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_113_1073048715.jpg

BaldieJr
02-19-2004, 07:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
WHat server is that Baldie?????? Would love to try it out!


"I Love The 30ies"

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look for FighterJerks on hyperlobby. Sometimes, you need to bring a friend, sometimes its full.

I'm usually on after 5-6 pm (Eastern US).

Be warned: its a time-sink. I've seen fights last 30 minutes.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
02-19-2004, 08:26 AM
Because its THERE!!! Watch 'BLUE MAX' then you might understand and FYI you can stall an I153 if you fight hard enough http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

Lazy312
02-19-2004, 08:58 AM
Heroes fly I-153 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif .

wooden planes, iron men

SUPERAEREO
02-19-2004, 09:08 AM
Just wait till we get Gladiators and Fiats Cr.42!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I am happy with a 1941-42 planeset!!!

S!

TacticalSkirmsh
02-19-2004, 09:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
..becuase even if you only succeed ONE time in FORTY tries to down a 262, there is no comparison to that feeling http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats a fact!

I-153 is a good training tool. It teaches you to think fast/react fast.

My server is running nothing but I-153's this week. The fights are damned hard. Some of the people who show up there are excellent pilots, and the fight like lions. Its good training, be sure.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

O man, now you made me agree with Baldie http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

This plane is very good when used by both sides. No, it's not my favourite (Yak-3 has always been my favourite), but it is really great for practicing your deflection shooting, since the poor little machine guns don't seem to do much of anything from a 6 position. But then rockets on the otherhand . . . http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

:FI:TacticalS!

JG26Red
02-19-2004, 09:26 AM
on slammins server last night there where a few I-153 drivers, rather interesting, they are very hard to remove... i think i got one, that was when he was chasing somebody and he went vertical and was a easy target and pumped a few 30mm into him,. but other than that i got some hits but they are very hard to get... if somebody wants to fly them let them, no reason to call them names and stuff... although i did find it rather funny to see them shooting rockets at me at over 700meters.. lol, or on head to head attacks i had a few rockets blow up in front of me.. lol... but, too each his own and its all cool, its just a easier way for me to disengage and rengage at will with them..

TheGozr
02-19-2004, 10:37 AM
The I 153 is very interesting plane it's an whole different tactic of fights and approaches.
it Remind me of the I-16.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I enjoyed flying with "BaldieJr " @fighterjerks. Fun to have that plane on both sides.
This plane can stall easily and engine stall
do not play it with your dog barking next to you ..lol

BaldieJr you do a good job doing what your doing.

-GOZR
http://www.french.themotorhead.com/themotorhead_fighters/images/pix/il2fbtmhlogosmall.jpg &lt;--Uncensored version IL2fb here (http://www.french.themotorhead.com/themotorhead_fighters/)

AndyHigh
02-19-2004, 10:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
..becuase even if you only succeed ONE time in FORTY tries to down a 262, there is no comparison to that feeling http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Funny piece of information I came across here:
http://www.sci.fi/~ambush/faf/fighters.html#I-153

Seem that Finns had dozen or two captured I-153 which were credited a whopping 6 kills. Last victory seems to be on 29.7.1944 when I-153 shot down P-39 Airacobra over Loimola.
I wonder how much of that accounts to sheer
horror of seeing I-153 in your six.

VonKlugermon
02-19-2004, 11:36 AM
I have to agree with CaptHaddock: because it's FUN! I had a grand time last night utilizing the I-153 for ground attack (and bomber busting!). Eventually I would get shot down or spin-in, but I usually took out 1 or 2 other flyers with me!

Willy

BaldieJr
02-19-2004, 11:55 AM
Maybe someone else can test this...

343 kmph is best I can get at sea-level. The object viewer says 363 kmph.

Nothing would please me more than to see 20 kpph added to the I-153's speed http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

LEXX_Luthor
02-19-2004, 12:35 PM
Biplane Phobia:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>but then as experience grew, I realized just how to counter them).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Apparently not http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

If it makes people MAD so they type all caps then its worth the extra wing.

__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/members.shtml
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.
:
you will still have FB , you will lose nothing ~WUAF_Badsight
I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait... ~Bearcat99
Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age ~ElAurens

F19_Orheim
02-19-2004, 01:29 PM
Baldie. Just flew on your Server.. Thanx for hosting. Great fun with only Chaikas... but who the h** is DrOOpy??? He rocked!!!!!!

http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/F19bannerA.jpg http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/F19banner.jpg

BaldieJr
02-19-2004, 01:39 PM
I haven't met DrOOpy yet. Maybe I'll get lucky and meet him/her tonight.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

masamainio
02-19-2004, 02:06 PM
http://www.sci.fi/~ambush/faf/ga58.jpg

20mm boring
30mm boring
P51 boring
Spit boring
Yak 3 boring
109 boring
190 boring

http://www.sci.fi/~ambush/faf/ca556.jpg

ucanfly
02-19-2004, 02:30 PM
I haven't gone online lately but after experimenting in QMB with E4 V I153 I noticed that after a merge after I keep going straight (at 450 kph or so) and the I153 turns 180 degrees and stays with me! E retention on AI is ridiculous!

Is this the same in online as well?

F19_Gazoo
02-19-2004, 02:35 PM
yada yada yada! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

So don´t fly it then!

I think it´s good that we have different tastes in things.
Just think how boring life would be if everyone drove Volvos and listened to Backstreet Boys. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/F19banner_D.jpg http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/F19banner.jpg

p1ngu666
02-19-2004, 03:09 PM
oh its full real server http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
i ALways get shot down by friends on fr.
never enemy http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg

adriatic
02-19-2004, 03:11 PM
Bla, Bla, Bla, Bla....

Dunhill_BKK
02-19-2004, 03:55 PM
I think you need to cut your dosage.

Crap planes are what IL2 is all about. I don't want to fly perfect planes. I really enjoy having the gravity-fed carbs affect my plane, kill the engine during a dogfight and force me down. It's the best part of the game.

Cheers,

Henkie_
02-19-2004, 04:35 PM
I153 is a very nice plane. The nicest plane of FB.

Maybe it is more nice if there is a historical planeset, Finns vs Russians. With Chaika's and Brewsters and Rata's in the winter scenario.

Then we can fly with nice skin camo's also. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

cu http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

EAF274_Henkie

BaldieJr
02-19-2004, 05:19 PM
Not full real, or full hard.

Friendly icons, padlock, minimap path, and speedbar.

Its that time! See ya on the server.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

Werre_Fsck
02-19-2004, 05:22 PM
I fly it occasionally because
a) I want to know what the VVS planes are like and
b) it's so basic, so slow, that to get a kill in a realistic-setting server you _Really_ have to work for it.

dieadler
02-19-2004, 09:52 PM
Mediocre planes need love too! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

WUAF_Badsight
02-19-2004, 09:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:


I-153 is a good training tool. It teaches you to think fast/react fast.

My server is running nothing but I-153's this week. The fights are damned hard. Some of the people who show up there are excellent pilots, and the fight like lions. Its good training, be sure. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

THIS IS TRUE

IN THE SPIRIT OF THE ORIGINAL POSTER I SHALLY CARRY ON TO EXPLAIN A FEW THINGS

I RUN A P-11 V I-153 COOP & DF ROOM

IT IS INSANE FUN .......... A REALLY GOOD HARD FIGHT

THE CHAIKA IS DAMM FUN TO FLY & IF YOU ARE NOT HAVING FUN FIGHTING AGAINST IT ........ WELL ........ GO SUCK A LEMON

WUAF_Badsight
02-19-2004, 10:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Biplane Phobia:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>but then as experience grew, I realized just how to counter them).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Apparently not http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

If it makes people MAD so they type all caps then its worth the extra wing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


HAR HAR HAR ............... ONCE AGAIN IT Mr WITTY LEX

& I AGREE BTW LEXX

BADSIGHT IS A BIG TIME WW1 PLANE FAN

& UNTILL THIS THREAD IS LOCKED I SUGGEST THAT ALL REPLY IN THE SAME MANNER AS THE THREAD STARTER

YOU SEE ..... HE STARTED TYPING BUT LIKE MY NICKNAME , HE HAS BAD EYESIGHT & COULDNT SEE WHAT HE TYPED OUT SO ON WHIPPED THE CAPSLOCK

PLZ ...... SHOW SOME CONSIDERATION BACK TO THE POOR GUY

LEXX_Luthor
02-19-2004, 11:46 PM
WUAF_BADSIGHT:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>PLZ ...... SHOW SOME CONSIDERATION BACK TO THE POOR GUY<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

YES WE MUST ALL SHOW COMPASSION AND TOLERANCE FOR THE MONOPLANE MUNDANES.
YOU KNOW, THEY SAY, ONCE YOU GO BIPLANE, YOU NEVER GO BACK.


__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/members.shtml
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.
:
you will still have FB , you will lose nothing ~WUAF_Badsight
I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait... ~Bearcat99
Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age ~ElAurens

tenmmike
02-20-2004, 12:09 AM
153 vs p11 it does not get funner then that ..i was a late mode guy before but .for straight out fun ..i-153 vs p11

http://images.ar15.com/forums/smiles/anim_50cal.gif U.S INFANTRY 1984-1991

DagsDownunder
02-20-2004, 01:41 AM
realized just how to counter them). I just want to know why? AND PLUS, ITS SOOOO SLOW. FINE FINE, IT CAN TURN AND BURN (ok maybe not burn) BUT IT IS SO SLOW THAT IT WILL NEVER CATCH AN ADVERSARY FLYING THE ENERGY FIGHT. ALL ONE HAS TO DO IS PUT DISTANCE, SPEED, AND ALTITUDE BETWEEN THEM AND THE I-153 IS MORE DEAD THAN A RPOINT OF FLYING IN THAT AMAZING AND AWESOME PLANE? THE I-153 IS SOO COOL. WOW. IT HAS GOOD FIREPOWER, AND ADEQUATE SPEED IN A DIVE. WOW THIS PLANES GOOD...[/QUOTE]

tttiger
02-20-2004, 02:24 AM
The Chaika is the most fun play to fly in the set. There are lots of WWI skins for them in IL-2 skins and you can set up some pretty amazing furballs.

In RL it was rarely used as a pure fighter. Biplanes are very agile and climb well but those two wings makes them pretty slow. Mostly the Chaika was used for ground attack before the Sturmo arrived.

But it can defend itself pretty well. Try to B&Z it and you might just find it reversing itself in the blink of an eye and shooting at you head-on with a snap shot and then quickly turning out of your flight path before you get a shot off (assuming you can see through the smoke and flames of your broken Emil engine). The Russkie pilot might even flip ya off as he's doing it. If so, it's probably me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Aloha,
ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

DagsDownunder
02-20-2004, 02:25 AM
Why Fly the 153? lol. Well because flying those German 109,s & 190 Flying Bricks in a straight line & Zooming up high & diving Straight down again, is BORING as hell! After flying for several years in CFS1 I Quickly found that the Hurricane is Stuffed in FB & the Las & Yaks cannot keep up with the German fighters So why bother? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif A Friend (& ACE in the 153) Introduced me to it & in my opinion it is the most FUN plane in FB! Elite has certainly NOT flown the 153 very much? as his comment on No Stalls is Stupid! The 153 Loves to get into flat spins,its Carbs cut out inverted & the engine Dies! All part of the SKILL required to fly it WELL! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifIf he wants to fly the Fastest with the Biggest guns he can try a F16? lol. No FB is about Enjoyment NOT Boredom. Regards Dags http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JG77_Tintin
02-20-2004, 04:45 AM
Don't know what this guys problem is with the I-153. Sure, it's not too flash against the latest 1945 Mustang or Thunderbolt, but I'm also sure that it was tops in the late 1930's when it was produced. Was probably the best biplane ever and will enjoy seeing how it stacks up against the Gladiator or Fiat CR42. What will he be saying about the P51, if a Korean War sim is released, with heaps of Sabres and Migs flying about? It was good for it's time and was often the only weapon available to fight the enemy with. Read some history books, wars are often fought with old and obsolete equipment. Put a "rarity factor" in your mission designs. The "cats whiskers" planes, wern't always available. Plus it is fun to fly and you can stall the thing.

F19_Orheim
02-20-2004, 06:01 PM
Been quite inactive this week, but logged on to Baldie Jr:s server "Flightjerks" yesterday for just a quickie, and also tonight. I must admit that after flying all kinds of mid- and latewar planes on different servers, I have found my way back to the cheer JOY of a good, sweaty, breathtaking intense dogfight with just Chaikas M62:s! There is a huge difference in these kind of games than on the B&Z ones. Sure they are fun too, but tonight reminded me why I got stuck on IL2 FB in the first place. This is GREAT practice for the J8a and I just love it. I have found my way back ..

The 30ies STILL rule!!!!!!

Thanx again Baldie for hosting... was GREAT fun....

http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/F19bannerA.jpg http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/F19banner.jpg

Snoop_Baron
02-20-2004, 07:30 PM
Yes the I-153 rocks http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif It's a great plane and it does stall. The first mission on my server (:FI:SnoopBaron) on HL is an "Old School" mission. With bases close together on either side of a lake. Each side has three planes to choose from I153, P11 and HurriMkI. The I153 is the best of the lot http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif great fun. And yes it does take skill if you want to beat your oponent in the same plane you better have some skill http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

:FI:Snoop Baron
http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_01.jpg

WUAF_Badsight
02-20-2004, 09:05 PM
thats the thing

the I-153 doesnt have any competition (unless your an absolute deamon stick & you fly the wings off the P-11)

its like a F1 car racing with sportscar GT class tourers

was it the absolute best ever Biplane made ?

did it not have an equal for TnB from any other country that could match its speed & climb or was it the ultimate Biplane fighter ever made ?

Vladimir_No2
02-20-2004, 09:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
thats the thing

the I-153 doesnt have any competition (unless your an absolute deamon stick & you fly the wings off the P-11)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hey, you just convinced me to go back to my beloved P.11s and I-513s. I was nealy convinced by all those who call them n00b aircraft.

http://www.doyle.com.au/images/scharnhorst2.JPG
"Engage the enemy more closely" -Rear Admiral Cradock

LEXX_Luthor
02-20-2004, 10:37 PM
Well the Ki~27 was the historical matchup and its generally agreed the I~153's extra wing was showing its age by that time. But Ki~27 is a crap plane too, so... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Give it time:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>PEOPLE WHO FLY KI~27 ARE CHEATERS COS THEY DON'T HAVE TO RETRACT THEIR WHEELS<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/members.shtml
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.
:
you will still have FB , you will lose nothing ~WUAF_Badsight
I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait... ~Bearcat99
Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age ~ElAurens

F19_Orheim
02-21-2004, 02:42 AM
A test pilots view.... trying out one of the few surviving still flying Chaikas:

----------------------------------------------

"Clear?" - thumbs up from the engineer with the fire extinguisher, engage, two or three blades and the AsH-62 engine starts up with a series of loud bangs from the open exhausts, pump the primer whenever it dies, watch for oil pressure rising, maintain 800 rpm until it runs evenly and try not to breathe too much of the white oily smoke which billows through the floor and around the windscreen before it whips away in the slipstream to form a cloud 100 metres behind.
This is the Polikarpov I-153 Chaika and I sometimes wonder, as it shakes and snorts after start-up, what a young Russian fighter pilot must have been thinking 60 years ago in Siberia at minus 30? with snow showers - his machine-guns all armed and his leather greatcoat buttoned up to his nose.

The warm-up procedure is surprisingly complex for the usually practical "get on with it" Russian-built aircraft: Maintain 800 rpm for three minutes maximum or until the oil temperature reaches 30?, then 1000 - 1200 rpm until the cylinder head temperature reaches 100? and the oil temperature is at least 30?, then 1,600 rpm until the cylinder head temperature reaches 120? and the oil reaches 50?.

The run-up needs to be done with the chocks in place as the brakes will not hold against reference power. The checks are: check both magnetos for operation, carburettor heat operation is checked at 1,850 rpm, propeller is cycled from 1,900 rpm to 1450 rpm and back twice, magnetos are checked at 2,030 rpm and reference power is 900 mm of boost which should produce 2,100 rpm, while maximum power is checked at 2,200 rpm and 1050 mm of boost.

With a capacity of 1,820 cubic inches, this engine - a copy of the 9-cylinder single-row Wright Cyclone - is reasonably detuned at a maximum of 1000 hp, but it produces a very good power to weight ratio in a biplane with a gross weight of just on 2,000 kg. Heavy armour plate forms the back of the seat and is required to keep the C of G in the correct position in this rebuilt fighter. A parachute is standard equipment as is a helmet and goggles, boots, overalls and gloves.

Chocks away and brakes checked. The brakes are pneumatic and similar to the Spitfire, Hurricane and Yak-3 with a lever on the stick.

Taxiing is simple enough but it is worth remembering that, as the wheels are only about one and half paces apart and the brakes are not too flash, turns should be done gently and care taken - especially in a tail wind as the Chaika tends to want to weathercock - and even with the throttle closed the speed can build quickly.

Take-off is exciting with plenty of right foot required against the torque and slipstream at maximum power and with such poor visibility behind the big round nose it feels like charging along a runway behind a block of flats. The engine noise is very loud even with earplugs, the tail must be helped up to the climbing attitude and the Chaika must be kept straight.

Lift-off occurs at about 110 kph and instead of winding the undercarriage up as with the I-16 this undercarriage is raised pneumatically with a small lever near the left knee. As with the Yak-3, activation is accompanied by a very loud hissing noise clearly heard over the engine at full power.

There is no elevator or rudder trim on the Chaika (the same as the I-16 Ishak), so some leg and arm is required, but as the wheels retract with a couple of heavy thuds elevator back pressure decreases quite a bit. With the holes in the floor more or less closed up all the cold draught is replaced by warm engine air and exhaust - so flying the Chaika is slightly warmer than taxiing!

Power can then be reduced to 2,000 rpm and 800 mm and at 200 kph the Chaika is climbing at about 2,000 ft/min. While the view is good to the sides and below, it is not good ahead in the climb; the carburettor air intake is at the top of the cowling and although the gull (chaika) in the top wing allows some view ahead, the top wings are close to eye level so plenty of weaving is required. Even in level flight the nose seems quite high.

The Chaika is more comfortable than the Ishak (the Spanish Nationalists called the I-16 the Rata, which translates as rat, but the Russian peasants called it the Ishak - little donkey. I prefer the latter), as the windscreen is wider and more effective so the slipstream doesn't tear at my helmet and goggles as it does in the Ishak.

Steep turns, loops, barrel rolls and wing-overs are easy and fun and slow rolls are heavy and a bit cumbersome but still great fun. All through the flying, however, there is an instability around the vertical axis which takes just a little while to get used to. A Tiger Moth can be reluctant to fly in balance without a bit of gentle footwork, but this Russian biplane is in need of constant guidance. A pulse on either rudder pedal will send the slip indicator flailing to full deflection with only minimal self-correcting tendency until the pilot gets his foot down on the opposite pedal. Rolling into a steep turn needs plenty of rudder to counter the considerable adverse yaw. However, a bit of practise does wonders and I find myself grinning and pretending to fire the guns as I draw a bead and dive after some other aeroplane in the distance - or a passing seagull, even.

Stalls are typical of what seems to be Russian with a fairly sudden wing drop, especially in an accelerated stall and plenty of rudder is needed to prevent further yaw once the nose drops and rotation starts. However, 1000 hp and full right rudder enables the Chaika to fly almost instantly out of a stall, which will happen with just moderate power on at about 90 kph.

Despite the instability in the vertical and lateral axes, the Chaika loves to charge around the sky; sometimes needing both hands on the stick to help keep the roll going. Unloading to less than 1g obviously speeds the rate of roll up quite a bit, but on the other hand even at the very slow rate of roll required during a big high loopy barrel roll it's quite heavy.

Returning to land means more loud hissing as the wheels drop and rotate outwards with more thumps as they lock down. Cold air rushes up through the floor and, like the Ishak, quite heavy back pressure is required to keep the nose attitude nailed at 150 kph while keeping the turn going to see the touchdown area. With its unstable tendency in yaw the Chaika just loves to sideslip. Even at a high rate of plummet there is very good control at 150 kph accompanied by a lot of wind around the windscreen and a lot of airframe buffet. However, instead of relaxing the controls back to centre as in the Pitts Special, they have to be almost forced back into balanced flight with the speed then bleeding back to 130 kph as the round-out is started. Three-point landings are easier than in the Ishak, perhaps because the landing speed is only 100 kph instead of 150 to 160 in the Ishak. As with the Ishak though, a go-around from a "ballsed up" landing is easy because with full power and plenty of right rudder to keep it all straight the little biplane just leaps back into the sky.

Wheeler landings in the wind are fine too as with the very narrow track the ailerons, being well out-board of the wheels, have plenty of leverage and give good response at quite slow speeds on the ground.

This will be a great airshow aeroplane. There is an elegance in the slant of the interplane struts. It's a fast, loud, chunky retractable biplane fighter with lots of style and appeal and to see three of them in the air together will be amazing.

The engine, in common use throughout the Eastern Bloc countries, is strong and reliable and the strident exhaust adds to the excitement and exuberance.

Ah well - you know what they say: "It's a dirty job but someone has to do it."

http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/F19bannerA.jpg http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/F19banner.jpg

WUAF_Badsight
02-21-2004, 03:16 AM
Awesum !

tenmmike
02-21-2004, 03:25 AM
the i-153 along with the p-11 if you fight them it is uber fun..its damn hard to not have a stupid grin on your face when you fight those planes

http://images.ar15.com/forums/smiles/anim_50cal.gif U.S INFANTRY 1984-1991

Capt_Haddock
02-21-2004, 04:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
"... and try not to breathe too much of the white oily smoke which billows through the floor and around the windscreen before it whips away in the slipstream to form a cloud 100 metres behind."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Blimey! That alone shows that the Chaika is a true member of the Crap Plane (TM) club. Great story! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/haddock/sig/F19bannerh.jpg
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/haddock/sig/F19banner.jpg

F19_Orheim
02-21-2004, 04:12 AM
What the heck, if you enjoyed that testimony, I'll throw in the one of I-16 as well http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

----------------------------------------
I remember talking with Robs Lamplough soon after one of his warbirds recovery coup's of the late 1970's and early 80's and him telling me about a Rata which had reputedly been belly landed on a remote hillside in Spain and which was still lying there in dilapidated but complete condition. I felt almost desperate with excitement to attempt to retrieve and rebuild this aircraft.
Nearly fifteen reasonably maturing years later, how incredible then to arrive at a high, dusty, mountainous airfield to see a flight of Ratas sitting outside, cockpit doors opened and straps set as if they were ready to take off for one last duel. This was the remarkable and very exciting sight greeting my father and me when we arrived once more at Tim Wallis' Alpine Fighter Collection in Wanaka, New Zealand.

Tim and his chief engineer, Ray Mulqueen, encountered a great deal of difficulty in fulfilling Tim's objective in rebuilding six original Ratas and three Chaikas (the gull wing biplane comrade to the Rata) in Russia. But finally after five years of work, here at last were the first half of his Russian squadron.

The Rata looks extremely racy. It is very small and overpowered for its time. Russian pilots more used to biplanes, looked with horror at the tiny wings and lack of flaps (in the later variants). Modern pilots also look at the same features with raised eyebrows and a certain amount of trepidation. These features plus the almost full span ailerons ("must roll like hell"), lack of trimmers, an undercarriage retraction system looking like a winch from a boat, an appalling view forward in a three point attitude, plus not an English caption in sight, all promised a fairly exciting ride ahead.

As you approach the aeroplane and begin a walk round, you immediately notice the ply/beech wooden fuselage which is very well finished and extremely strong. You also notice with some surprise, the fabric covered metal construction of the wings and again the huge ailerons (most Russian aeroplanes roll very well). Other unusual features are the very delicate looking undercarriage complete with wire and cables for retraction leading up in to the guts of the aeroplane, numerous exhaust stubs emanating all around the cowling, big two bladed propeller with little ground clearance to absorb all the power from the ASh 62 IR 1,000 horsepower motor, cowl flaps are in the front of the cowlings (good for Russia but not needed in New Zealand in early summer). The cockpit is protected by a tiny windscreen and small side doors similar to the Spitfire but on both sides of the fuselage and of course, no canopy.

Climbing on board, the blended wood fuselage is very smooth and you need care to mount the aeroplane in a dignified manner. Once sat down, you are aware that the ground angle is extreme and that the view forwards is very poor. In comparison the visibility over the nose in a Spitfire or a P-51 is fantastic. In fact, in the Rata it is worse than the Me109. The next problem is that if you choose to sit high in order to see out, the small curved cockpit doors are so tight when you close them that you now almost have to sit sideways to fit in! In conclusion, you simply end up sitting low! Having said that, there is a quaint translated note from the Russian test pilot which states "do not be shy or embarrassed to open the side doors in flight prior to landings to help you see out".

Once finally settled in the aeroplane and looking around left to right you see in order, an emergency fuel shut-off ****, "wobble pump", throttle and mixture controls together both working in the conventional sense and a little further forward the carb heat and prop lever co-located.

The main instrument panel is well appointed with all the standard instruments (although there is no artificial horizon). As with most Russian aeroplanes, there are a bank of switches used to 'arm' systems and to provide electrical power to them (such as fire system, turn and slip indicator, engine instruments etc.). In addition starter energiser and engage switches (on a fly wheel system a bit like the T6), plus primer, gear lights, fuel gauge and an odd pull push handle to make it read. Other peculiarities to Westerners include ASI in km/h, plus boost/manifold pressure in mm of mercury giving 0 boost at 760mm. The pilot's straps are superb and really keep you firmly glued to the seat.

Starting the Rata is simple. Mixture on, throttle set, wobble a bit - get some fuel pressure, prime five or six shots, energise the fly wheel, noise builds to a high pitch - engage and mags on and she'll fire. The noise from the multiple exhaust stacks is spectacular and very satisfying. In sympathy, white smoke coughs and belches randomly from the engine. The noise and vibration levels are very similar to the Yak 11.

It's good practice to warm up to 600 to 700 RPM for a minute and then gently increase to 1000 RPM. The next parameters to look for are 120 degrees cylinder head temperature and 50 degrees in the oil, prior to checking the engine. Once the cylinder head and oil is increasing, you can start a gentle taxi - the brakes are not spectacularly good and taxying is best achieved by power, rudder and judicious amount of forward stick to turn. If you keep the stick back - the elevator grinds the tail wheel hard against the dirt and you will drive along in straight lines all day!

At the hold, with the temperatures and pressures in the green, you stand on the brakes and start to increase power, hoping to get 760mm and about 2000 / 2100 RPM. There is a good chance the brakes will start to slip beforehand - say at 1700 - 1800 RPM, so cycle the prop back and forth slowly once, twice and more quickly a third time. Check the mags - not less that 100 drop per side. Next the simple pre take-off checks consist of:

Trim - N/A; Throttle Friction - tight; Mixture - rich; Pitch - full fine; Fuel contents, pressure, primer; Flaps - N/A; Gills - open; Oil cooler - open; Gyros - set; Instruments in the green; oxygen - N/A; Hood - N/A; Harness - tight and secure; Hydraulics - N/A (brakes holding?); Controls - full and free;

It's time to go - the power can be applied quite aggressively and you can keep it coming to 820mm & 2250RPM. The increase in noise is fantastic and it is possible to lift the tail quickly to vaguely see where you're going - you need to have the horizon cutting the 10.55 and 1.10 position on the forward cowling. There is very little tendency to swing and she runs pretty much straight as an arrow, although the rough Wanaka grass gives a harsh ride to the hard sprung oleos, the Rata and you!

If you have not figured it out before, it is now that you realise that excellent goggles are a must!! With a ground roll of about 400 yards and the smallest of rotations suddenly she's airborne and with a quick glance down you see the speed very rapidly at 200 km/h which is both the best climb and gear up speed.

The Russian test pilots recommend gear retraction not before 1000 metres!! This is rather conservative - but with good reason - getting the gear up is a bit of an epic. Power back now to max continuous 2000 & 760mm and holding the nose up to contain the speed at 200 km/h. Holding it down low after take off and snappy gear retractions are not the Rata's forte.

There is warm buffeting air everywhere, but the aeroplane immediately feels right. With a positive rate of climb it is time to sort the gear out.

Check the "brake spring" is set - check the handle lock is released (allows the retraction handle to rotate) select another handle for the "hoist" ratchet gear to the up position and then start to crank like mad!! 44 turns later you can see the wheels entering the belly of the aeroplane underneath you - suddenly the handle stiffens, a last turn or half turn and "hurrah" 2 red lights telling you the wheels are up. By now we're at 2000 feet and it is noticeably warmer in the cockpit. Power back to 1900 & 680 mm and the speed builds to 350-360km/h. Temperatures and pressures are good, with the oil temperature stable at 75 degrees and the cylinder head temperature at 180.

How does she feel? We're holding a slight push force on the stick (remember no elevator trim) - roll rate is excellent and very positive - about 100 -120 degrees per second. Pitch is also very effective and the Rata is delightful in aerobatics - although as speed increases in the dive, passing 400 km/h the push force on the stick reduces to 0 and then as 430 km/h is reached, a very slight pull force is required - something that needs a little care running in low level for the start of a display. The aeroplane accelerates very quickly in the dive and when seen from the ground, appears extremely fast. Stalling in manoeuvre gives plenty of warning with pronounced tail buffeting before she drops the left hand wing quite progressively and definitely not violently. The aeroplane delights in reversing from a max. rate turn in one direction rapidly to the other. You can see that this is a superb close in dogfighter. The delightful handling characteristics, plus the open cockpit, vibrations and noise provide a very exciting ride. Rolling requires little rudder input to stay balanced. I have the feeling that you could snap roll the Rata deliberately very precisely. Vertical performance is excellent and with excess energy pulling up and unloading straight up in to the vertical produces spectacular performance.

Stalling clean and dirty, is an interesting experience - below 250 km/h you are holding a pull force which is slightly perturbing until you get used to it. She stalls slower clean than with the gear down! Stall is at about 135-140 km/h and again is very gentle power off with a gentle wing drop that stops immediately when back stick is released.

It is back in the circuit that the work load goes up again. You need to select the gear selector down, release the handle lock, grab hold of the gear crank handle very positively, select up slightly to release the up locks - then very carefully start to crank down. The handle will immediately start to try to run away and you must keep hold of it (it's not that difficult) whilst the gear, aided by the airflow, comes down through the same 44 turns (only much easier than up).

As soon as the wheels break from the underside of the wings, the through draft of air up through the cockpit starts the same buffeting as before. Finally 2 greens and you are now down wind at 200 km/h, holding a pull force and starting to turn finals. I have to say that it is here that I least like the Rata - landing on Wanaka's narrow grass, concentrates the mind and the problem is that if you three point the aeroplane - the view forwards is really terrible. It would be fine at Duxford or on a wide concrete strip - but otherwise I am sure you are better off wheel landing the Rata. Definitely not something I expected originally. Basically, you should fly a slightly power on "hot" approach speed bleeding through 180km/h to not less than 160 km/h on very short finals to touch for a tail down wheeler. This seems to cause fairly consistently reasonable landings and the landing roll out is still only 500 yards or so, even not using brake. I have to say that, after only 5 sorties, I'm not exactly the prophet when it comes to landing Ratas - it definitely needs a bit of practice.

How do they compare with other WW2 fighters? Well, I believe, very favourably with some of the other aeroplanes. I had just flown a Hurricane for the first time, a week before the Rata and sorry to Hurricane aficionados, but I was really surprised and disappointed in the aeroplane's handling and performance (although very interesting and lovely to fly the type). I felt that you would be better off fighting in a Rata. At any rate I felt quickly far more comfortable in it. In air combat against early low powered 109's, I would suspect that the two aircraft were very comparable. Later variants of the Messerschmitt would easily be able to dictate the fight against the Rata due to the 109's superior speed and vertical performance.

Considering the Rata was in full squadron service by 1936 and was the first heavily armed, retractable gear, monoplane fighter in the world, it has many merits and surprisingly few vices. It is a real classic in its own right with a European connection and history beyond its combat on the Russian front. I would thoroughly recommend the aeroplane to anyone who would like to own a very reasonably priced exciting example of flying history.

http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/F19bannerA.jpg http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/F19banner.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
02-21-2004, 04:25 AM
Articles here ---&gt; http://www.polikarpov.co.nz/

__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/members.shtml
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.
:
you will still have FB , you will lose nothing ~WUAF_Badsight
I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait... ~Bearcat99
Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age ~ElAurens

F19_Orheim
02-21-2004, 05:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Articles here ---&gt; http://www.polikarpov.co.nz/
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, that's where I found those testimonies. Be sure to view those movies and listen to the engine sounds... grrrrr http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/F19bannerA.jpg http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/F19banner.jpg

Alexi_Alx_Anova
02-21-2004, 05:45 AM
The best online fun I have ever had was on a HL server where the only plane was the I-16, all spawned in mid-air, and flying over some nice hilly and forested terrain. It was like a swarm of bees! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Baldie, how about mid-air spawns over the airports closer to the mountains (not the crappy online mountainous maps). While you're at it, turn engine overheating off so it can be a mad full throttle fest http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Alexi

-----------------------------
Drug of choice....coffee

http://web.onetel.net.uk/~alx_747/coffee.jpg
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Tooz_69GIAP
02-21-2004, 06:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I would thoroughly recommend the aeroplane to anyone who would like to own a very reasonably priced exciting example of flying history.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wonder HOW reasonably priced??

I love the Ishak and Chaika. They are both really lovely wee planes, and the Ishak can certainly be deadly in a DF server.

Man, what an amazing occupation, to fly all these vintage aircraft, and then tell everyone about it making all of us sick with insane jealousy!!!!

Tooz

whit ye looking at, ya big jessie?!?!

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_tooz.jpg
Za Rodinu!

SeaFireLIV
02-21-2004, 06:47 AM
Check the "brake spring" is set - check the handle lock is released (allows the retraction handle to rotate) select another handle for the "hoist" ratchet gear to the up position and then start to crank like mad!! 44 turns later you can see the wheels entering the belly of the aeroplane underneath you - suddenly the handle stiffens, a last turn or half turn and "hurrah" 2 red lights telling you the wheels are up.

I thought that was great! I`d have no problem with the I16 if Oleg added a Handle Lock release mechanism (release with letter`L`). The pilot`s description of the I16 is EXACTLY how I feel about it, even compared with the good ole Hurri. Can you see your wheels come up from the cockpit if you look down? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif I must check...

It`s real-life accounts like these that prove more to me about the authenticity and immersiveness of FB than any truckload of rehashed technical statistics!

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/wrestlearm.jpg
The Fights continue out of the Servers...

Kahvikuppi
02-21-2004, 07:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
What the heck, if you enjoyed that testimony,

Thank you very much, F19_Orheim. Your writings about the Chaikas and Ratas or Ishvaks - if you like - is very interesting and educational as well. I happen to be a "member of the crap plane-lover´s club" as well.
Have a nice day (or night what ever!)
http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/F19bannerA.jpg http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/F19banner.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

F19_Orheim
02-21-2004, 07:28 AM
oh, not MY writings, even if i wish it was ME trying those "wee planes"... just something I found on this site (http://www.polikarpov.co.nz/) which I thought you guys would appreciate.

http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/F19bannerA.jpg http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/F19banner.jpg

masamainio
02-21-2004, 08:11 AM
http://www.polikarpov.co.nz/banners/tbanner%20sales.gif

"Aircraft for sale, containerised for shipment at Hangar Door, Wanaka, New Zealand

I-16 USD350,000-00 ono (excl. of taxes if any)
I-153 USD425,000-00 ono (excl of taxes if any)

With each aircraft comes a certification package, small spares package plus back-up from AFC to assist in sourcing of technical support or spares from our Russian contacts."

http://www.polikarpov.co.nz/pages/sales.html