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Breeze147
04-06-2004, 08:36 AM
Here's the situation. IL-2 campaign. 4 ship flight with Mig-3 fighter cover. The mission is to assault an assembly area where the Germans are getting ready to board a train to retreat. It is very heavily fortified with AAA. On my first pass I take out one of the the AAA. On my second I take out 2 railway cars, but in the process, get a burst of flak right in my face. The canopy is riddled with holes, there is oil all over it and most of the instruments are shot out. I fly away a few miles in a safe direction and find everything mechanical to be working fine, I just can't see. Just then 2 things happen. 3 is ordered back to base and 1 and 2 are both jumped by 109's (I think they were 109's). 1 and 2 both call for help. I'm thinking, I can't see and there are fighters to help. Maybe I should cover for 3, who is limping back home. I choose that option because a) I can't be of much help anyway and b) I must admit, the flak is really heavy back there. I manage to make it back, even though my vision is so poor that I have to circle the field twice just to get lined up. Neither 1 or 2 make it back. I feel a little guilty about it. Or is it better that 2 of the 4 did make it back?

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap16.jpg

Breeze147
04-06-2004, 08:36 AM
Here's the situation. IL-2 campaign. 4 ship flight with Mig-3 fighter cover. The mission is to assault an assembly area where the Germans are getting ready to board a train to retreat. It is very heavily fortified with AAA. On my first pass I take out one of the the AAA. On my second I take out 2 railway cars, but in the process, get a burst of flak right in my face. The canopy is riddled with holes, there is oil all over it and most of the instruments are shot out. I fly away a few miles in a safe direction and find everything mechanical to be working fine, I just can't see. Just then 2 things happen. 3 is ordered back to base and 1 and 2 are both jumped by 109's (I think they were 109's). 1 and 2 both call for help. I'm thinking, I can't see and there are fighters to help. Maybe I should cover for 3, who is limping back home. I choose that option because a) I can't be of much help anyway and b) I must admit, the flak is really heavy back there. I manage to make it back, even though my vision is so poor that I have to circle the field twice just to get lined up. Neither 1 or 2 make it back. I feel a little guilty about it. Or is it better that 2 of the 4 did make it back?

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap16.jpg

blabla0001
04-06-2004, 08:58 AM
If you went back and helped 1 and 2 you would have been shot down with them, and maybe number 3 didn't make it back either because there was nobody around to give him a morale boost.

So you made the right choice if you ask me.

Lunix
04-06-2004, 09:31 AM
ditto. Right choice in my books too. Pressing a battle in a damaged plane when your home free is a form of suicide. I believe the airforce frowns on suicide.

http://members.shaw.ca/corn/il2sig2.jpg

porcupine1
04-06-2004, 09:51 AM
when I am online and I get into a Tiff with another plane where even slight damage has occured or ammo has been used I turn around and head for home to rearm and refuel. a lot of times this gets me acuused as running home to get my points, but i dont see what good its gunna do anyone if i stick around wait for thier friends and get jumped while out of ammo.
the average dogfights lasted only 2-3 minutes then it was over people ran out of fuel and ammo and took some damage and ran for home.
these 15 minute dog fights you get are not realistic at all.
play like there is no refly button it ads a ton to the emersion factor. that makes those lost cause missions even more special.
if you are online and you have a wingman you can just say i cant see iam running cover me! and most likly they will.
the important thing to remember is why did the others get into trouble in the first place did they think before they rushed in?
there are accounts of a groups of spitfires and 109s seeing each other over the channel and not fireing a shot or even engageing each other because the outcome was unsure for both groups.
I cant remember but i think it was adolf gallond who said "I never make the order to engage unless i know we can take them all down and fast" paraphrased of course
so in short i think you did the right thing. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SeaFireLIV
04-06-2004, 09:57 AM
You acted correctly, pilot. Here`s a little vodka. Then get some sleep. Be up in the morning for your next mission. You and a new crew going back to finish the job!

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/spitfpetite.jpg

georgeo76
04-06-2004, 10:38 AM
He is packing it in and packing it up
And sneaking away and buggering up
And chickening out and pissing off home,
Yes, bravely he is throwing in the sponge.

______________________
Fiend (http://webpages.charter.net/Stick_Fiend)

carguy_
04-06-2004, 11:00 AM
Correct decision.The ability to judge the situation accurately and run when in danger is one of the most precious skills pilot has to have.

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

Wupjak
04-06-2004, 11:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by georgeo76:
He is packing it in and packing it up
And sneaking away and buggering up
And chickening out and pissing off home,
Yes, bravely he is throwing in the sponge.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Another Monty Python reference goes nearly wasted.

Good move, Breeze. Live and fight another day, especially when you're at a disadvantage. Lose sight, lose the fight.

Ketalar
04-06-2004, 11:31 AM
Breeze:

1) In a damaged groundpounder, fellow pilots in attack aricraft calling for help, fighters allocated for cover: Go home!

2) In an undamaged groundpounder, fellow pilots in attack aircraft calling for help, fighters allocated for cover: Go home!

3) In a damaged groundpounder, fellow pilots in attack aricraft calling for help, no fighters allocated for cover: Go home!

4) In an undamaged groundpounder, fellow pilots in attack aircraft calling for help, no fighters allocated for cover: Check incoming fighter status (type, number, position), then evaluate. Most likely: Go home! (Since you're bound to be outnumbered and outmaneuvered.)

5) If you're flying fighter cover then that's a different ballgame. Then you HAVE to engage. (Unless you're damaged or low on ammo in which case it's better to get the plane and yourself home to fight another day.)

Rebel_Yell_21
04-06-2004, 01:36 PM
The vast majority of WWII aerial engagements were inconclusive, because one side "bugged out" when they didn't like the look of something. It was extremely rare that air battles took place until one side was wiped out.

I just wish the AI would bug out when damaged or overmatched, not attack 2v8 and a whole litany of other things in that vein (not a rant, just the limitations of the current engine, maybe BoB will see some serious differences) that would add to the immersiveness of offline campaigns.

http://www.flyvintage.com/img/backdrops/p-51d_big_beautiful_doll/thumb.jpg

GK.
04-06-2004, 01:59 PM
better him than me

Breeze147
04-06-2004, 06:02 PM
Thanks for the interesting responses. I like the "war story" aspect of this sim. I really didn't have an option. Just like in the old movies, we met in the Officers Club afterwards, turned 1 and 2's tankards to the wall, and hoisted a drink in their honor.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap16.jpg

Kampfmeister
04-06-2004, 08:50 PM
Sounds like you made the right decision to me. Too feel guilty is just natural. If you had gone back to help 1 and 2, you probably wouldn't have made a difference anyway, and gotten yourself shot down in the process. Better to live and fight another day.

crasherburnz
04-06-2004, 08:52 PM
porcupine1 FYI
The 15 minute dogfight did occour on at least one occasion.
This wqs engaged in by Marseille (The Star of Africa)

Page 366 of The Luftwaffe Diaries by Cajus Bekker (Ballantine Books)

A month had begun during which Marsaille's fame transended that of Rommel himself. On Sept 3rd he was awarded the highest decoration of all: Diamonds of the Knights Cross. On the 20th he was all but matched by an opponent flying a Spitfire, and only after a dog-fight lasting a quarter of an hour did he succeed in defeating him. This was his 158th victory and his last.

http://home.monet.no/~oddbass/marseille.html
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/hanstate.html