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View Full Version : FW190 A4 drivers gather round please



Franzen
08-02-2004, 01:26 PM
I love flying the 190 A4 cause it's really agile and fast, not to mention deadly. I recently installed patch 2.04 and found a change I don't like. The wings break off too easily from 700kph and above. This never happened to me before the patch but since installing it my wings break off all the time. Has anyone noticed this?

Fritz Franzen

Franzen
08-02-2004, 01:26 PM
I love flying the 190 A4 cause it's really agile and fast, not to mention deadly. I recently installed patch 2.04 and found a change I don't like. The wings break off too easily from 700kph and above. This never happened to me before the patch but since installing it my wings break off all the time. Has anyone noticed this?

Fritz Franzen

Zyzbot
08-02-2004, 01:45 PM
I've seen the same comments made about the P-51 in the patch. I can't recall the specifics but it is supposed to have something to do with "G" limits.

TugZooey
08-02-2004, 01:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zyzbot:
I've seen the same comments made about the P-51 in the patch. I can't recall the specifics but it is supposed to have something to do with "G" limits.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same here, but with the KI84 as well. G limit combined with exceptional elevators is supposedly the problem, IIRC.

http://img73.photobucket.com/albums/v221/milank/grab0002.png

LuftLuver
08-02-2004, 02:10 PM
Welcome to Oleg's world.

Try the P51 out. Do a barrel roll at as little as 650kph and *CLINK*.

Enjoy.

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
"All your bases are belong to us."

BlackShrike
08-02-2004, 02:28 PM
the A4 is fast? maybe with no weapons and 25 fuel in a dive from 10k

Fennec_P
08-02-2004, 02:33 PM
To be fair, the FW-190 wings were far too strong in the past.

At 800kmh, you could haul on the stick with no risk at all of losing your wings.

If the wings break off now, I'm sure the G imit is no lower than any other plane. The light elevator is probably the culprit, as in the case of the P-51, Ki-84 and P-80.

jurinko
08-02-2004, 02:35 PM
nothin against this feature, but why Yaks do not break at 600kph then as they should?

---------------------
Letka_13/Liptow @ HL

Bull_dog_
08-02-2004, 05:58 PM
Naw..their tails fall off cause they are made of wood!!

Actually tails and wings were shed on real aircraft but according to something I read it only happens at 15G's or something like that. Aircraft with high elevator authority at high speed are the ones suseptible...but I'm thinking there might be a bug because I've lost the wings long before blackout which should happen below 9 G's...maybe 6??? without G suit?

Some aircraft are very suseptible and I'm thinking Oleg said it was the case for all aircraft...odd thing is the zero's, La's, Typhoons and many others were noted to have wings/tails/structural failure under G load....

I think there should be some randomness to it depending on G load and of course all aircraft have a terminal dive velocity when they come apart.... The Jets also suffer from this too. I just have a nagging feeling that some aircraft have this problem long before 15G's.

Fennec_P
08-02-2004, 06:07 PM
At low speeds, most planes do have structural limits well above 15G.

As you reach higher and higher speeds, the allowable G load becomes less and less. Above 700km/h, the allowable loading may only be 4 or 5G, depending on the plane.

This is because the force that destroys the wing is not purely an upward force, but a combination of both drag and lift, which forms a component vector. The drag force increases with speed, reducing the allowable load factor.

At 300kmh, it may survive 15G. At 500km/h, 10G. At 700 km/h, only 5G. At 800km/h, they come off regardless of G.

[This message was edited by Fennec_P on Mon August 02 2004 at 05:16 PM.]

lbhskier37
08-02-2004, 06:20 PM
The reason you are shedding wings before you black out is because you don't instantly black out when you pull 15Gs, it will take a bit of time for the blood to run to your head, and once the wings shed then the Gs your pulling obviously instantly drop because you have nothing pulling you around the turn. The P51s and FWs have this problem because you have too much elevator authority at high speeds, you cant do it in a zero or 109 because your elevator turns to concrete and doesnt let you pull any Gs.

http://lbhskier37.freeservers.com/2005VRSCSE.jpg (http://www.il2skins.com/?action=list&whereauthorid=lbhkilla&comefrom=display&ts=1049772896)
Official "uber190n00b"

"Big cannons are only for skilless pilots who can't shoot shraight enough to hit a target with a smaller caliber round."-310thcopperhead

BBB_Hyperion
08-02-2004, 09:00 PM
The Main Problem is all Planes have 15g Limit now what is surely not true.

High Ground is not only more agreeable and salubrious, but more convenient from a military point of view; low ground is not only damp and unhealthy, but also disadvantageous for fighting.

Sun Tzu : The Art of War

Regards,
Hyperion

Franzen
08-02-2004, 09:26 PM
Interesting replies. Thx all.
It seems most are mentioning the elevators. I found that just a quick roll at high speeds is enough to do the trick.
When I'm rushing in to blast the enemy sometimes he's just out of my aim and I've often used a quick roll to target. I'm into e-conservation so I rarely use a little of the elevators at high speeds. As I said, a quick roll can usually present a firing solution.
If this is just the way it's supposed to be then I'll be happy with it and get used to it. I was just unsure if it were a bug or not. As for other planes, I don't really fly them much.

Fritz Franzen

Franzen
08-02-2004, 09:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlackShrike:
the A4 is fast? maybe with no weapons and 25 fuel in a dive from 10k<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 190 A4 is very fast if you are a little patient. What you must do is get your energy and then keep it. If you lose it you won't last long. Energy conservation, it's roll rate, and large maneuvers are the key. I like to keep my speed above 450kph. It can outrun most planes.

Fritz Franzen

Fehler
08-02-2004, 09:46 PM
That is the absolute key to the 190 A's, and a lot of people fail to realize this. You have to be patient, and really watch your speed. If you start to turn with something and see your speed drop below 350-400, flatten out, go verticle, kick rudder and decend upon your target again. The 190 A's build speed in a dive rather nicely, and zoom climb very well (As they should).

The thing is, a 190 jock has to be patient and smart enough to know what alts the fight will probably be at. Then allow himself enough spearation to gain his energy to best maneuvering speed. Slow, you are dead. If you are pulling back on your stick for very long, you are dead. If you have to dive away from say an La-7 or P-51/47, you are dead.

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

Franzen
08-02-2004, 10:28 PM
You are so right Fehler. When I see my enemy is higher I don't go up to meet him. Instead I level out or even dive slightly to gain speed. One thing I found works very well when you have a fast enemy on my 6 I do a 75% roll in the oppisite direction I want to turn and don't turn too much. Since my rollrate is so fast my enemy will end up turning in the opposite direction of my turn. Then I level out for energy while my enemy is losing a lot of energy cause he needs to turn a lot to correct his mistake. At this point I will climb slightly and eventually gain alt advantage.

The 190 A4 reguires a lot of strategy and thought. I've flown the A5 quite often but think the A4 is much better. The A8 isn't worth mentioning unless your into ground pounding.

If I fight the P-51 I keep in mind the slow roll rate. I use it's rollrate disadvantage to beat it.

As for the La7, I hope for clouds. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif If I do get one on my 6 I fly low and straight. My best defense is small quick constant movements for 2 reasons. First, he can't aim, he'll waste his ammo which he deosn't have much to begin with. Second, small movements make you the smallest possible target and very hard to aim at. If you try to outturn the enemy you become a huge target. With these two factors in mind I drag my enemy to my teammate or AAA.

I'd like to point out that I play on servers that don't limit the plane set. So, I'm always happy to meet an La7 or a P-51 and the P-47 is my favorite target. The only time I get shot down is when I'm landing, taking off, or catch AAA up my tail.

IMHO the 190 A4 is the best followed by the 109 G2. They suit my style and I have a very good success rate.

Fritz Franzen

DuxCorvan
08-03-2004, 12:47 AM
"FW190 A4 drivers gather round please"

Maybe you should 'pilot' it instead of 'driving'. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Maico_249th
08-03-2004, 04:52 AM
I am learning the German Birds. I dont fly online anymore. I think the German birds will take a while to master. I learned a lot in this tread. I cant wait to go home and try this stuff. The roll rate is awesome and I just started realizing how good the speed is. I fly against Spitfire V off line a lot. Its challenging fun. Sometimes the challenge is staying BEHIND the Spit. So A4 is fast. I try D9 sometimes just for fun. That Devil is too fast lol.
Does anyone care to share how they use Prop Pitch on the A4?

Fehler
08-03-2004, 05:37 AM
The FW190 A's all have constant speed props, so setting them to 100 is best for performance.

Some people swear that they get better dive or climb performance at 80%, but I really havent noticed an increase in the 190.

Remember this, instead of making a flat circle when turning, make more of an egg shape turn using a verticle angle and then gravity to assist you, and you can turn with almost anything for a limited time. (Kind of a turning high yo-yo)

Dont try to spiral climb with a Spit or La, they will eat you alive. Instead, extend, get separation, then a slow ascending climb at a high speed (around 310-350). If your bad guy tries to follow, he will bleed his E pretty fast and when he begins to stall, you can pull up tighter, roll over quickly, and be on his 6 with greater energy.

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

Franzen
08-03-2004, 07:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
"FW190 A4 drivers gather round please"

Maybe you should 'pilot' it instead of 'driving'. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This forum made me do it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Fritz Franzen

Franzen
08-03-2004, 07:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fehler:
The FW190 A's all have constant speed props, so setting them to 100 is best for performance.

Some people swear that they get better dive or climb performance at 80%, but I really havent noticed an increase in the 190.

Remember this, instead of making a flat circle when turning, make more of an egg shape turn using a verticle angle and then gravity to assist you, and you can turn with almost anything for a limited time. (Kind of a turning high yo-yo)

Dont try to spiral climb with a Spit or La, they will eat you alive. Instead, extend, get separation, then a slow ascending climb at a high speed (around 310-350). If your bad guy tries to follow, he will bleed his E pretty fast and when he begins to stall, you can pull up tighter, roll over quickly, and be on his 6 with greater energy.

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. I've tried using the prop pitch but didn't find it was worth the extra concentration. I only use if I have to run away for a long distance.

Another way to turn on your enemy is with a nice hammerhead. But this is only good if you are sure your enemy will lose his E before you. When you are in a fairly steep climb and you see your enemy behind you stalling just before you do, you know you've probably got him. I love the stall characteristics of the A4 and A5. Practice them and get used to them. The 190 recovers unbelievably fast from most stall situations. Never stall with you enemy above you and never lose E.
One of my favorite escape routes is to dive and use a barrelroll at the same time. Don't pull out of your dive quickly. Do it gradually and you'll have more than enough speed.
Another plus with the A4 is that it can change directions very quickly. The minus is that you can not hold a turn without bleeding the energy. I've learnt that by changing directions quickly but also quickly leveling out to regain E makes the 190 A4 tough to follow.
BTW, for those who hate the 190's just aim for the wings. Only a couple little holes are needed to turn it into a Dodo bird.

Fritz Franzen

Monson74
08-03-2004, 08:20 AM
The FW190A4 is the only truly convertible - or should I say transformable - plane in FB. Try lowering your flaps to "landing", add full power & you'll have a WWI Fokker Triplane that can out-turn a yoyo. Just don't do it at more than 300Km/h!!! This may not be the most effective offensive move but it will get you out of trouble lol. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

S!

Monson


"The Zerst¶rers will form an offensive circle." - G¶ring