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Indianer.
08-10-2004, 12:13 AM
Hi all.

I was wondering if any of you new of any good sites, or experience of your own, for DFing the 110. I know that most use this plane for ground punding but during the BoB they were used for escorting the HE's; granted, they were blown out of the sky and reduced to the role of nightfighter but never-the-less I would be interested to know as last night I had a great DF with a spit (a marathon rollin scissors affair).

Thanks in advance

Indi

http://www.fighter-collection.com/film/img/dark_blue_world.jpg

"Wer auf die preussische Fahne schwort, hat nichts mehr, was ihm selber gehort"

Indianer.
08-10-2004, 12:13 AM
Hi all.

I was wondering if any of you new of any good sites, or experience of your own, for DFing the 110. I know that most use this plane for ground punding but during the BoB they were used for escorting the HE's; granted, they were blown out of the sky and reduced to the role of nightfighter but never-the-less I would be interested to know as last night I had a great DF with a spit (a marathon rollin scissors affair).

Thanks in advance

Indi

http://www.fighter-collection.com/film/img/dark_blue_world.jpg

"Wer auf die preussische Fahne schwort, hat nichts mehr, was ihm selber gehort"

_Neveraine_
08-10-2004, 12:52 AM
Boom and Zoom seems to work every now and again

RedDeth
08-10-2004, 12:54 AM
GO drink some beers wait till night fall then go to sleep. any other tactic is high risk

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Zayets
08-10-2004, 03:42 AM
Dogfight doesn't worth unless you have high speed.And only against heavy fighters.
The most important advice I can give is : man the gun!
Gunner in 110 has the best spot among all fighter/bombers.A huge fire field. IF chased,make sure you man the gun and fly the aircraft in the same time.Go in a slight climb to counter attack low 6 attacks and start fire.You will notice how often attackers break.
Another piece of advice: go low!Like you do in the IL2,not only that you protect from low six attacks but a fast fighter has problems maneuvering low.A tight turn can result in a stall.A stall down there is pretty much death.

Zayets out

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F19_Ob
08-10-2004, 04:48 AM
I practise longrange deflection in QMB at the ranges of 400-600m. With a bad maneuvering plane U have to maximize your shooting opportunities.

Also try to keep your speed up so that an enemy behind closes slowly, this way u can give the backseat gunner clear shots...or why not man the gunnerposition yourself?


I also practise hard maneuvers at slow speeds close to ground, to find its limits of performance. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

NorrisMcWhirter
08-10-2004, 06:22 AM
Hi,

Best tactic is to team up with someone else. While this is no guarantee of success, the 110 is devastating in an effective drag and bag move.

Cheers,
Norris

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Huckebein_UK
08-10-2004, 06:39 AM
In the BoB Defensive Circles were popular with '110 pilots. Although lots of people are derogatory about these tactics, they were actually the most effective way the '110 could be used once embroiled in a dogfight. Each plane is covered in the circle by the guns of the man behind him, as well as his tail-gunner. The 'defensive' circle can be used 'aggressively' by moving it about the sky to maintain cover over the bombers you're escorting etc. As long as you're there any British Spit or Hurricane pilot has to keep an eye on you. In AEP I don't think this tactic is 'built in' to the AI, so you'll only be able to do it online really. It helps if there are some single-seaters around to actively engage the enemy as well, then you just BnZ when you get the opportunity, then rejoin the circle...

--------------
Huckebein_UK

"I saw the men; I just couldn't do it!" -- Franz Stiegler after escorting Charles Brown's crippled B-17 across the North Sea.

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Snow_Wolf_
08-10-2004, 08:59 AM
it a one pass deal with your trying to deal with Hurricans and Spitfires or anything single engine. It best to get fighter cover or another 110 as your wingmen. I found that if you can defect shoot the other guy it do some damage to the engine area which is the weak part. But if you get caught down low the best thing to do is power dive and run to the closes airface hoping there some 109 or 190 around..

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KGr.HH-Sunburst
08-10-2004, 09:56 AM
fly it fast low and agressive

i fly the 110 alot and i im always on a fighter and Il2 hunt in that thing and im very succesfull to say the least
i fly on greatergreen mostly and my average kills in a 110 are way higher then in a single engine fighter until late 1943 i do ok after that it starts to get a bit tricky against those high speed monsters http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
yesterday i took a P40E out from 500/600m with the BK3.7 cannon http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif on GG
its amezing how easy it is to take out fighters
they just pass you ,overshoot or whenever they come close to my gunsight even from distance
they have a good change to be blown up by that massive firepower http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

oh and when im on fighter/il2/bomber hunt i always take the Bk3.7 + 2xmk108 armament
and when they are not around you can always go for groundpounding

some say BnZ is the way ,well im a FW190 jock and i know how to do it but BnZ is not the way in a 110 its just to risky,it bleeds to much E and climbs like a brick and your easy meat when you zoom up

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_VR_ScorpionWorm
08-10-2004, 01:28 PM
Well, not much I can add as its mostly been said, but one thing I can add is if fighting online, be sure to man the gunner position yourself, AI in online mode are ******ed and shoot waaaaay off from where they should. Offline mode AI are sharpshooters, and thats the only place where you should keep them on autopilot mode.

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Udidtoo
08-10-2004, 01:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Huckebein_UK:
In the BoB Defensive Circles were popular with '110 pilots. Although lots of people are derogatory about these tactics, they were actually the most effective way the '110 could be used once embroiled in a dogfight. Each plane is covered in the circle by the guns of the man behind him, as well as his tail-gunner. The 'defensive' circle can be used 'aggressively' by moving it about the sky to maintain cover over the bombers you're escorting etc. As long as you're there any British Spit or Hurricane pilot has to keep an eye on you. In AEP I don't think this tactic is 'built in' to the AI, so you'll only be able to do it online really. It helps if there are some single-seaters around to actively engage the enemy as well, then you just BnZ when you get the opportunity, then rejoin the circle...

--------------
Huckebein_UK

"I saw the men; I just couldn't do it!" -- Franz Stiegler after escorting Charles Brown's crippled B-17 across the North Sea.

http://www.il2skins.com/?action=display&skinid=13937
Click pic to download. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are very correct about that tactic not being modelled. I love TRYING to fly the 110 offline campaign but I don't think there is a plane in the game where you can find yourself being the sole survivor of a flight faster than in the 110.

I have read of that circling manuver before and thought hmmmmmm maybe in BoB next year. We can always hope.
..............................
I always have just enough fuel to arrive at the scene of my crash.

IV_JG51_Prien
08-10-2004, 02:22 PM
My favorite tactic for dogfighting in the 110 is getting shot down... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

In all seriousness, like others have said you need to pick your battles very carefully.. My favorite thing to do is lurk on the fringes of a furball and wait for the Spits/'Stangs (or whatever) to get low and slow, or wait for them to get focused on persuing another plane.. then come in and bounce them, then get the HELL out of there.

I also love manning the rear gunner.. Great to shoot someone down that way.. It's amazing how many pilots get overconfident in thinking "It's a 110, what an easy kill" then getting their canopy shot full of holes http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

My favorite arming setup is the 2xMK108 and the 2xMG/151 pod on the bottom.. 2 30mm and 4 20mm cannons take care of business. IMO the 110 is much like the Hurricane IIc.. Not a whole lot of bark, but a TON of bite.

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Indianer.
08-10-2004, 02:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IV_JG51_Prien:
My favorite tactic for dogfighting in the 110 is getting shot down... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

In all seriousness, like others have said you need to pick your battles very carefully.. My favorite thing to do is lurk on the fringes of a furball and wait for the Spits/'Stangs (or whatever) to get low and slow, or wait for them to get focused on persuing another plane.. then come in and bounce them, then get the HELL out of there.



<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol...yeah thats what ive found seems to work best. Its the getting out fsat that i have the problem with http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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"That crazy b'stards trying to dogfight in a 110......is that smoke I can smell?"

ericson
08-10-2004, 03:55 PM
during BOB 300940 Germans attempted a double blow against London and the Westland factory at Yeovil. The raid has a whole was a disaster but for once the Zestorergruppen bested the British. I don't know what tactics they used or what was different about the encounter. Total losses for the day were RAF 16 Luftwaffe 44. They missed Westlands and bombed Sherborne by mistake.

PBNA-Boosher
08-10-2004, 04:00 PM
As it was originally developed as a fighter, there is very little armor on the side of the pilot/gunner compartment. Therefore, do not give your enemies much chance to take deflection shots on your cockpit. It is very likely that they will kill you easily. Your armor is in the front and rear of the cockpit compartment, not on the side.

Boosher
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Enofinu
08-10-2004, 04:24 PM
start both engines, get in air, find enemy, run like hell, bail out or die.

[]_---_[] KITT
08-11-2004, 12:16 AM
Sorry for a rather dumb question but how the hell do you hit an enemy plane with the machine guns at the gunner position. There are two guns and two gunsights. So how...? use only one of them?

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KGr.HH-Sunburst
08-11-2004, 07:06 AM
oh you might add Head on's as well (try to force them)
you have two engines your opponent mostly only one
and with the mg151 pods + mk108s or Bk cannon
you have some bad a$$ firepower wich will blow any
enemy in to bits

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Zayets
08-11-2004, 07:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Roh_Kudus:
Sorry for a rather dumb question but how the hell do you hit an enemy plane with the machine guns at the gunner position. There are two guns and two gunsights. So how...? use only one of them?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/roh_kudus/Sig_Spit.gif
"He is St Peter"
"People with power can afford to show their ugly faces to ordinary people" -Empirically tested
"Do you know your mind is not private to your own? besides God, some people can read it too"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Use the force Luke!
Seriously,look through the rightmost one.That's yer aim,right.At least is in my 110.

Zayets out

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OldMan____
08-11-2004, 08:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
As it was originally developed as a fighter, there is very little armor on the side of the pilot/gunner compartment. Therefore, do not give your enemies much chance to take deflection shots on your cockpit. It is very likely that they will kill you easily. Your armor is in the front and rear of the cockpit compartment, not on the side.


-Gandalf<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeahh but you have 2 engines at your side that helps stop bullets a little bit. It would be not efficient put tons of side armor with twin engine

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!

LEXX_Luthor
08-11-2004, 09:50 AM
They say that if used properly in BoB it would have faired better. Not sure, Hurricanes made a mess of 110s in France.

Am thinking of 1940 Barbarossa Campaign, where Germany invades USSR 1940 when Germany still considered Bf~110 to be its best most advanced fighter, and see how it stacks against 1940 VVS planes if Bf~110 is used in its original fighter role.


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Gershy
08-11-2004, 10:14 AM
The 110s didn't do to bad in France and in the Balkan campaign after BoB, as well as in the beginning of Barbarossa.

It was outdated yes but often the German fighters were used in the wrong way in the BoB. The 110s suffered from the close escort just like the 109s did.

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gates123
08-11-2004, 02:36 PM
Goering was an idiot and needed to lay off the cognac

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dadada1
08-11-2004, 02:43 PM
Head on attack againstsingle engined fighters, if they get on your tail, you better bail before they PK you.

Captain_Avatar
08-11-2004, 03:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RK_HH-Sunburst:
oh you might add Head on's as well (try to force them)
you have two engines your opponent mostly only one
and with the mg151 pods + mk108s or Bk cannon
you have some bad a$$ firepower wich will blow any
enemy in to bits

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe a not so good idea. ON a head on pass you typically aim for the center of mass. On a Bf-110 That would be the fuselage, and guess what, no big engine block to prtoect you from bullets!

Indianer.
08-12-2004, 12:26 AM
Thanks for all the replys guys. The 110 is really not a dog-fighter, however I have had some really nice kills in it and have learned to be a lot more patient when hunting prey (makes them all the more satisfying http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif). One thing that I have noticed is that once youve spent some *ahem* "qualtity time" in this plane single engine fighters(my beloved P40) are so much easier to fly and some of the caution displayed when flying the 110 has paid dividends, with my kill rate almost doubling in the P40 even against '43/44 planes!

See, it does have its uses.

~S~ Indi

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"That crazy b'stards trying to dogfight in a 110......hold on, who put that ****-off hole in my wing?"

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