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View Full Version : Battle Of Britain, Bf-108 possibilities...



ST__Pawnee
09-18-2004, 11:34 AM
Hello!

I don't know if anyone have had this idea or not, but I really like it.

In BoB, by Maddox games, which is to be out sometime during 2005, we've seen the Bf-108. A plane for practice purposes and instruction.

It would be extremely cool, if 2 people could fly the plane together in coop mode. The pilot on the captains side, would be the "student" and the pilot on the right side would be the instructor. The instructor can, with a button, deside when the student get the controls of the plane, and when not. With voice-programs like Ventrilo and Teamspeak, this would fit brilliantly together.

When I say instruction, I mean everything. Basics, tactics, formation flying, and aerobatics. The instructor could first show the student, then let him/her try, and all the way comment/instruct the flying.

It would be not only a great way to learn how to fly, but also very social. I could f.ex. bring a squadmate for an aerobatic ride, etc.

I don't see any direct problems with getting this possible (maybe there are), but in my view, it should be perfectly possible. And I really hope so, because this would make me wanna fly the game more often, it would make be brag about the game to others, which they in return, maybe would consider to buy the game themself.

I truly hope this will be possible, because I can only see positive things coming out of this. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

What do you all you others think?
http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/devupdate/110604/bf108_1.jpg

ST_Pawnee
www.silvertriggers.tk (http://www.silvertriggers.tk)

ST__Pawnee
09-18-2004, 11:34 AM
Hello!

I don't know if anyone have had this idea or not, but I really like it.

In BoB, by Maddox games, which is to be out sometime during 2005, we've seen the Bf-108. A plane for practice purposes and instruction.

It would be extremely cool, if 2 people could fly the plane together in coop mode. The pilot on the captains side, would be the "student" and the pilot on the right side would be the instructor. The instructor can, with a button, deside when the student get the controls of the plane, and when not. With voice-programs like Ventrilo and Teamspeak, this would fit brilliantly together.

When I say instruction, I mean everything. Basics, tactics, formation flying, and aerobatics. The instructor could first show the student, then let him/her try, and all the way comment/instruct the flying.

It would be not only a great way to learn how to fly, but also very social. I could f.ex. bring a squadmate for an aerobatic ride, etc.

I don't see any direct problems with getting this possible (maybe there are), but in my view, it should be perfectly possible. And I really hope so, because this would make me wanna fly the game more often, it would make be brag about the game to others, which they in return, maybe would consider to buy the game themself.

I truly hope this will be possible, because I can only see positive things coming out of this. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

What do you all you others think?
http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/devupdate/110604/bf108_1.jpg

ST_Pawnee
www.silvertriggers.tk (http://www.silvertriggers.tk)

JG7_Rall
09-18-2004, 11:56 AM
that would be awesome. I'm all for it

http://home.comcast.net/~nate.r5388/InGallantCompany.jpg
"Son, never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him."
Badges!? We don't needs no stinkin' badges!
Flying online as Hutch51

LEXX_Luthor
09-18-2004, 07:42 PM
Good idea, but dual controls not worth sacrificing AI programming and other stuff like battlefield environment.

Bf~108 is needed as Default flight sim Newbie trainer (and Brit equivalent).

Oleg should put small pic of 108 right on the main game menu, then the Newbie can click it and learn
to flight sim instead of jumping into Spit or He~100D (http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif).

Two Bf~108 clicks for the Newbie, one to start in air, the other to start on airfield. The air
start should be near one or two airfields. Its really fun when starting out to fly from one
field to another and landing safely. Real accomplishment when starting out...I remember well.

...even the crusty bitter Old Timer flight sim Noobs will click the Bf~108 pic just to fly around a bit.

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack ( AEP )

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

p1ngu666
09-18-2004, 07:55 PM
tiger moth for the british?

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
<123_GWood_JG123>NO SPAM!
<badsight>my name is tracy and pingu is the Antichrist of Combat Flight Simmers
<lexx_luthor>flowers across the land in BoB
<stiglr> Ctrl+F1.

LEXX_Luthor
09-18-2004, 08:53 PM
Should be Flyable Lysander across the land in BoB too. Would Lysander make good flight sim Newbie trainer?
As a grumpy old timer Noob, I will be simming it alot too.


__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack ( AEP )

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

p1ngu666
09-18-2004, 09:28 PM
maybe http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
check ur pt's if u havent already http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
<123_GWood_JG123>NO SPAM!
<badsight>my name is tracy and pingu is the Antichrist of Combat Flight Simmers
<lexx_luthor>flowers across the land in BoB
<stiglr> Ctrl+F1.

BfHeFwMe
09-19-2004, 02:20 AM
Better not sneeze in that thing, wings will crack and fall off.

AlexDavies
09-19-2004, 09:29 AM
a tiger moth as a brit trainer and a bf108 as a german trainer. has possiblities.....OLEG!

http://www.lsfm.org/images/TBolt.jpg

Aaron_GT
09-19-2004, 12:04 PM
I'd rather see a Miles Magister as I like Miles aircraft. In theory at my mother's house I have a manual for it, but since I haven't seen it in 15 years it is definitely in theory...

AlexDavies
09-19-2004, 12:23 PM
magister...is that the tiger moth monoplane lookalike or is that summat else?

http://www.lsfm.org/images/TBolt.jpg

AlexDavies
09-19-2004, 12:24 PM
http://www.militaryairshows.net/shuttleworth/magister.jpg
IT IS!

http://www.lsfm.org/images/TBolt.jpg

Rola.
09-21-2004, 06:47 AM
I hope that BOB will be so realistc that the training campaign (featuring special missions and light, easy-to-fly aircraft) would be mandatory.

With this in mind we (i.e. the 9/39 team, have you heard of us? www.9-1939.pl (http://www.9-1939.pl) ) develop RWD-8, a twin-seat trainer from Polish Air Force.

http://www.9-1939.pl/Grafika/Projekty/miniaturki/RWD-8_02.jpg

Last time we visited Polish Aviation Museum (http://www.muz-lotnictwa.krakow.pl), we took photos of Bu-131 Jungmann, Tiger Moth... all two-seaters... rings the bell? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


So guys - keep asking Oleg for a good training feature in his new line of simulators!

"September 1939" for "BoB" --- coming to a PC near you
www.9-1939.pl (http://www.9-1939.pl)
http://www.9-1939.pl/Pliki/bannerGIFen.gif

ST__Pawnee
09-24-2004, 01:25 PM
Agree AlexDavies and Rola!

But LEXX_Luthor, I think programming dual controls is easy, and it won't sacrfifice the AI programming. I'm more into Multiplayer, and if I could fly a Bf-108 together with a friend, I would be almost in heaven lol. Would be totally awesome http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

WOLFMondo
09-26-2004, 04:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AlexDavies:
a tiger moth as a brit trainer and a bf108 as a german trainer. has possiblities.....OLEG!

http://www.lsfm.org/images/TBolt.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I'll second that! It would be nice if we could also get proper training aircraft.

LStarosta
09-26-2004, 06:47 PM
A little off topic, but I'd enjoy the prospect of manually opening up your own parachute, and steering it to some degree by yanking on the risers. That would come in handy, because RAF airmen were taught to not open the chute right away in case some German felt like accelerating his sea-ward dive.

avimimus
09-27-2004, 06:33 AM
While I find the BF-108 raises a lot of hope for expanded gameplay forms and training in BOB, I think I see something else as well.

Remember those lysander pics, if you look closely one of them had two 20mm cannon and another had bomblette racks.

Those are based on emergency conversions -for beach head defence...!

Sturmvogel66
09-29-2004, 02:11 PM
I think the idea of dual controls is an amazing idea. The way I invision BoB, there will obviously be different settings for difficulty so that new players didnt have to learn on the go, but I hope and dream that there will be a highest difficulty setting that in its best form tries to mimic real life difficulty. Obviously there are certain things like the feel of the plane and the actual control that cannot be mimicked, but in terms of all the engine and control and instrument management, those should all be options for the die hard RL simmer. Like having to turn on your gun site, or readjusting your heading indicator, stuff like that would make BoB well worth whater dollar amount is stacked onto it. The dual controls idea would make it easy for new players to learn how to fly on the full real by having someone who knows what they are doing teach them step by step what to do and when to do it. Im all for this idea.

LEXX_Luthor
09-29-2004, 05:22 PM
Sturm:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>...but in terms of all the engine and control and instrument management, those should all be options for the die hard RL simmer. Like having to turn on your gun site, or readjusting your heading indicator, stuff like that would make BoB well worth whater dollar amount is stacked onto it. The dual controls idea would make it easy for new players to learn how to fly on the full real by having someone who knows what they are doing teach them step by step what to do and when to do it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
All this you learn in Ground School...the flight sim Manual. If they don't read the Manual the dual controls won't help. lol I can see the old timer Noob getting ticked off at the Newbie for not reading the Manual...just like real life instructors won't let you fly after a given time if you don't complete ground school.

The one thing dual controls will help is showing the visual behavior and appearance of the runway during a proper landing approach.

The dual controls will not help 95% of Newbies at all (5% online ~oleg). The real life reason for dual controls is that the instructor can fly the plane when the Newbie cannot. We don't need to worry about crashing. We just Fly again.

The contradiction with dual controls in an air combat sim is that flight sim Newbies learning with dual controls with another simmer also will sign up at internet webboards to ask Questions of how to fly, and see that others had the same difficulties. They already have a learning tool.

The offline Newbie will not benefit from dual controls. Thus, online cool factor aside, dual controls are a waste of programming except for a small minority that already has flight sim webboards to talk him/her through piloting. Better Oleg make sure the Bf~108 is placed in front of the Newbie's face on the basic game menu so he/she flies that aircraft first and not dump straight into the BoB P~51D or Fw~190 that the Newbie sees every night on teh USA Dogfighter Channel. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Oleg better make sure the AI sees the sun before thinking about dual controls. Never do you see any Requests for AI seeing the sun. Bizzare, given a air combat flight sim.

AusDerReihe
10-04-2004, 07:18 AM
i'd really like to see dual controls, great idea.
i'd also like to see separate controls for pilot/bombardier.

in the He-111 the bombardier had instruments for altitude, speed and heading (from what i can see from inside the plane) so he could make corrections to the bombsight inputs, not correct the plane itself for the bombsight presets.

p1ngu666
10-04-2004, 08:47 AM
i think they could movee the trim tabs

KSS_Shrike_UK
10-06-2004, 06:01 AM
what a fab idea, of course, 1 two seater trainer for each 'side'.
hopefully this will help the sales of il2 aswell, as some people are sceptical as to how complicated it is to fly an a/c and hopefully the prospect of being trained would tempt them to by il2. if marketed right.

LEXX_Luthor
10-06-2004, 02:58 PM
Only help if the Newbie flies onwhine or LAN). Then the Feature is Forgotten as they become Aces.

For the 95% of purchasers, the better idea is put single control Flyable trainer aircraft in big picture "quick training mission" click boxes on the main game interface, so the brand new flight sim Newbie will fly them first instead of trying to find and fly Fw~190 Dora /P~51 Dora right out of the BoB box (newbie just watched teh USA Dogfighter Channel), then newbie give up and never flight sim again.

And the Quick Trainer Missions with sweet planes the old timer Noobs will fly often too. Be Assured.

p1ngu666
10-06-2004, 03:34 PM
twoseater aircraft can be flown by a single pilot luthor http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

u could do a scripted thing, where instructor takes off , then u take over.

could be interestin for ultra full real campaigners, if ur not upto scratch, it ends, or u are shoved to bombers or sumin http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

LEXX_Luthor
10-06-2004, 04:21 PM
Yes, so two seat controls never needed in flight sim.

What they need is easy to fly trainer aircraft like Bf~108 and put it in main game menu where the flight sim Newbie sees that first instead of the more popular late WAR planes and jets. The purpose behind dual trainer controls is not so much the instructor "showing" but to take over instead of letting the Newbie crash. I know this is a Pink Elephant here--we are never supposed to talk about this among the 5% simmers. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif We can crash with complete personal and property safety and continue our training.

LEXX_Luthor
10-06-2004, 04:24 PM
Yes, I agree dual controls would be "fun" for a little while, for the 5%, then Forgotten.

All flight sims need Newbie emphasis on single control Flyable trainer aircraft.

avimimus
10-06-2004, 08:32 PM
Ahem.. I just insinuated that Oleg could be planning to model operation sea-lion (which would be a first). This is of course unlikely (the beachead deffense lysanders could just be for playability). Still, knowing Oleg I have learned to expect the unexpected!

Dual controls would become very important for the bombers though, with multiplayer co-pilot positions and campaigns. It would also have a role in any 1930's era transport sim that develops off of Bob.

LEXX_Luthor
10-06-2004, 10:47 PM
Yes, sometimes you needed two pilots to pull up the wheel of the big bombers (TB~3 included). Only for onwhine play will that work though. Basically, an onwhine only sim.

KSS_Shrike_UK
10-08-2004, 10:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Only help if the Newbie flies onwhine or LAN). Then the Feature is Forgotten as they become Aces.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can see your point Lexx. Think also for squads, would be great to sit in plane with a potential new recruit to see how they fly firsthand, also, i would be nice to jump in other squad members plane for advanced training manouvers. Or discipline a squad member by making them sit passenger in a very bad furball as you fly, and they scream over comms http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif . has lots of uses.

LEXX_Luthor
10-08-2004, 06:03 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif We won't have very bad dogfight "furballs" in two seat trainers anyways. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

What you are describing is internet "fun factor" or LAN "fun factor." This won't help train 95% of flight sim purchasers, and it won't help train the remaining 5% if they don't get Ground School and read the Manual--so where is all the talk about training "realism?"


The primary purpose dual controls serve in trainers is to let the old timer Noob take over from the Newbie to prevent fatal crash. We don't Fear fatal crash. I know we can't talk about this without getting BANNED, but alas, I alone take that Risk, here, at teh ubi.com. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif