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Willey
08-17-2004, 03:59 PM
I just tried it in the QMB. I often moad about the total uberness of the AA guns, and I fly online most of the time. I noticed that they get more accurate the more laggy I am. That means with 800 ping or packet loss, I get hit easier than with a clean 150ms connection. That's because I'm flying straight for a short time until the host gets a new info package. Probably that's long enough for the AAA to score deadly hits http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif.
Now I expected them to be not that uber offline. But I was wrong (http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif). I tried it five times. QMB Krim, me against an airfield with Flak, Axis side, 2000m. It's protected by 2 85mms close to 6 trucks and 2 BA-64 and 3x 3 25mms, one site at the south parking area, one at the north parking area and one at the taxiway in the east that connects the south parking area with the runway.

1. Try: Me-262A-1a + R4M. I try killing as much as possible with them, so I go for the 6 trucks, 2 BA-64 and 2 85mms. I see the first Flak cloud, stick shakes, but I continue my attack. 5 targets got killed. After pulling up, I checked the damage. A hole in one of the wings, just above the R4M rack. I got that with the first shells they shot at me. Now before turning around I get 3 more hits, left engine starts burning. As I turned around, it doused, but before I could attack anything I got a PK by Flak.
2. Try: Same plane, same approach. Nothing in the first attack run. But in the turn for the second one, I get an engine hit, but it's still running, though at lower revs. I was gunning some trucks with all 4 MK 108s. Not a single one got killed http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif. Just as I passed the air field, sheesh, right wing gone... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif
3. Try: Now FW-190F-8 + AB-250. I can drop it at the same targets that I engaged with R4M in the other tries. 7 targets killed. No damage, nice. I zoom up at 30‚? not to loose too much energy. I turned around behind the 3km radius of the 25mms. But then, before I could reach anything with my guns, I get a cockpit hit. Instuments dead, some holes in the windscreen. I can still aim, ReVi's no hit. I could kill one Flak gun. But before I could get out of the 3km radius, my elevators got shot off. That's it.
4. Try: Again FW. I see 3 Flak clouds... then I got a PK 2km in front of the AF, at ca 800m altitude http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
5. Try: Again F-8. I can drop the bomb once more, but in the zoomclimb that followed the attack I got my engine killed, burning. Couldn't even eject. BOOM.

Now that's really strange http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif
In the FW I never had less than 600IAS in all attack runs and in the jet I had 700IAS at least in each run. Why do they hit so often and so precisely? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif
I still remember Il-2. Any airfield in DF maps had 2 85mm and 8 25mm guns. I could do 10+ attack runs with the BI-1 at below 500-700 IAS and 5+ with any other plane before getting hit. They're really better now. I might add that 80% of the times I get killed, it was the Flak... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif 15% Spitfire http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif and 5% the rest http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.

Looks like a "get killed by Flak" simulation to me right now... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

PS: I remember I whined about Flak already in Il-2 times, but now I'd wish we "just" had the Flak of back then http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif.

Willey
08-17-2004, 03:59 PM
I just tried it in the QMB. I often moad about the total uberness of the AA guns, and I fly online most of the time. I noticed that they get more accurate the more laggy I am. That means with 800 ping or packet loss, I get hit easier than with a clean 150ms connection. That's because I'm flying straight for a short time until the host gets a new info package. Probably that's long enough for the AAA to score deadly hits http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif.
Now I expected them to be not that uber offline. But I was wrong (http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif). I tried it five times. QMB Krim, me against an airfield with Flak, Axis side, 2000m. It's protected by 2 85mms close to 6 trucks and 2 BA-64 and 3x 3 25mms, one site at the south parking area, one at the north parking area and one at the taxiway in the east that connects the south parking area with the runway.

1. Try: Me-262A-1a + R4M. I try killing as much as possible with them, so I go for the 6 trucks, 2 BA-64 and 2 85mms. I see the first Flak cloud, stick shakes, but I continue my attack. 5 targets got killed. After pulling up, I checked the damage. A hole in one of the wings, just above the R4M rack. I got that with the first shells they shot at me. Now before turning around I get 3 more hits, left engine starts burning. As I turned around, it doused, but before I could attack anything I got a PK by Flak.
2. Try: Same plane, same approach. Nothing in the first attack run. But in the turn for the second one, I get an engine hit, but it's still running, though at lower revs. I was gunning some trucks with all 4 MK 108s. Not a single one got killed http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif. Just as I passed the air field, sheesh, right wing gone... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif
3. Try: Now FW-190F-8 + AB-250. I can drop it at the same targets that I engaged with R4M in the other tries. 7 targets killed. No damage, nice. I zoom up at 30‚? not to loose too much energy. I turned around behind the 3km radius of the 25mms. But then, before I could reach anything with my guns, I get a cockpit hit. Instuments dead, some holes in the windscreen. I can still aim, ReVi's no hit. I could kill one Flak gun. But before I could get out of the 3km radius, my elevators got shot off. That's it.
4. Try: Again FW. I see 3 Flak clouds... then I got a PK 2km in front of the AF, at ca 800m altitude http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
5. Try: Again F-8. I can drop the bomb once more, but in the zoomclimb that followed the attack I got my engine killed, burning. Couldn't even eject. BOOM.

Now that's really strange http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif
In the FW I never had less than 600IAS in all attack runs and in the jet I had 700IAS at least in each run. Why do they hit so often and so precisely? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif
I still remember Il-2. Any airfield in DF maps had 2 85mm and 8 25mm guns. I could do 10+ attack runs with the BI-1 at below 500-700 IAS and 5+ with any other plane before getting hit. They're really better now. I might add that 80% of the times I get killed, it was the Flak... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif 15% Spitfire http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif and 5% the rest http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.

Looks like a "get killed by Flak" simulation to me right now... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

PS: I remember I whined about Flak already in Il-2 times, but now I'd wish we "just" had the Flak of back then http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif.

LEXX_Luthor
08-17-2004, 04:26 PM
Real Life AA required squadron teamwork to defeat. We enjoy simming the One Ace Air Force. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

Creating realistic teamwork with AI planes forces FMB Ace Mission Sculptors to bend over forwards.


__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Xnomad
08-17-2004, 05:05 PM
I think the AAA is fine now, it used to be really really really accurate, if you read Pierre Clostermann's "Big Show" you will see that FLAK is mentioned a lot, and that he often got a few hits from the AAA when attacking ground targets etc he also lost several of his colleagues to FLAK.

http://www.xnomad.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sig.jpg

_VR_ScorpionWorm
08-17-2004, 05:43 PM
Doesnt matter how fast you are going, when entering a heavy FLAK zone, you should NOT stay level, fly at the same heading or altitude for an long time(translated as a few seconds really). If your diving on a target, whether game or not, and keep the same heading FLAK gunners will put a round right next to you because you are not moving. You have to remember, FLAK is a round that burst throwing metal fragments all over the place. It could burst at 50 meters and you could still hit something that will damage your aircraft.

http://img55.photobucket.com/albums/v169/Scorpion08/Hurri-1.jpg

www.vultures-row.com (http://www.vultures-row.com)

Obi_Kwiet
08-17-2004, 07:19 PM
Yup. Flack needs to be way less accurate. And make the tanks and Ships stop shooting at you with thier main guns! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2004, 07:21 PM
Well, flak was an issue. That's why lone planes seldom overflew enemy bases. They all shoot at just YOU. With multiple targets presenting themselves, the risk gets spread around (and thus, smaller).

The only thing I hate is how they nail you when you're in or behind a cloud, and the benefit of blocked line of sight is overridden by an infallible AI routine. Plus, it is NOT a good idea to jink at random in a cloud, especially if you have one of the older slip bank indicators. You could come out the other side in a terminal dive...!

However, I don't complain much about ack anymore. In the last few campaign books I read, the gunners took their toll, no doubt about it. It is, with the possible exception of over-accurate ship borne ack, fairly realistic.

However, tank gunners should almost NEVER hit you with a main gun, unless you come directly straight down their gun barrel on a very flat trajectory. It was a 1-in-10,000 shot for a tank gunner to even see an opportunity for a main gun shot on an aircraft, let alone scoring with it.

VW-IceFire
08-17-2004, 09:03 PM
Read The Big Show....Closterman hated flak. He said Germany was covered with the bloody stuff. More allied planes were likely lost, at least from his perspective, to flak at airfields and along major transportation routes, than from enemy fighters.

Tempests, Spitfire XIV's, and maybe Mosquitos were the ones considered best suited to attacking targets because of their speed. Here's a story that will make your flak experience seem like nothing at all:

We were at 14,000 feet and kept straight on over to the left, as if we had no intention of attacking. I took a close look at the field: the small crosses parked just where we expected them showed up on the bright green grass of early spring. I particularly noticed one, two, four, seven flak towers. Their shadows clearly projected on the perimeter track by the sun

'Look out Filmstar Leader, flak at 6 o'clock!'

Sure enough, 200 yards behind us five big black puffs from 88 mm. shells had appeared. OK, five more seconds and then I would attack. The objective was behind us and we were facing the sun. Fear caught me by the throat and stopped me breathing. Aerial combat always found me calm - after the early stages - but flak was quite different.

'Drop your tanks, Filmstar'.

My stomach contracted and a wave of nausea swept over me - the advantage of a single-seater is that you can pass out with fear without anybody noticing.

'Quick. 180 port, go.'

This would bring us back facing the airfield, with the sun at our backs.

'Diving--full out, Filmstar!'

My nine Tempests were beautifully echeloned on my left although we were diving almost vertically.

'Smell of flowers,' came Bay Adams voice mockingly in the earphones. Flak! Christ, what flak! The entire surface of the airfield seemed to light up with the flashes from 20mm and 37mm guns. There must have been at least 40 of them. A carpet of white puffs spread out below us and the black puffs of the 37's stood out in regular string of eight.

What flak! Physical fear is the most terrible thing a man can suffer - my heart leaped into my mouth, I was covered with sweat, with sticky, clammy sweat. My clenched toes swam in my boots.

We dived desperately into the smoke‚...explosions and tracer to left and right crossing over and under us‚....bangs around our wings and sinister dazzling flashes.

We were a mile from the perimeter, 150 feet from the ground. Men were running hither and thither.

'Lower for Christ's sake,' I yelled hysterically. The broad expanse of grass, carved by the gray runways, tilted up before my eyes and rushed towards me. We were doing over 450 mph. First a hangar ‚... a bowser ‚... then the Messerschmitts, perched clumsily on their narrow gear, about thirty of them, with men crouching under their wings. Too far to the left, unfortunately, outside my line of fire.

A group of a dozen Arados loomed up in my sight. I fired, I fired frantically, my thumb jammed on the button. My shells formed a ribbon of explosion worming its way between the Arados, climbing up the fuselage, hitting theengines ‚... smoke ‚...one of the planes exploded just as I was over it, and my Tempest was tossed up by the burning gust. A Tempest touched the ground and the fuselage bounded up in a shower of fragments of smashed wings and tailplanes. More hangars in front of me. I fired a second burst-it exploded on the galvanized iron doors and the steel stanchions.

'Look out , Red 2' My No. 2 was coming straight for me, out of control, at a terrific speed. His hood had gone. At 470 mph 20 yards to my right, he went smack into a flak tower, cutting it in two beneath the platform.

The wooden frame flew into the air. A cluster of men hanging on to a gun collapsed into space. The Tempest crashed on the edge of the field, furrowing through a group of little houses, with a terrific flash of light; the engine had come adrift in a whirlwind of flames and fragments scattered in the sky.

It was all over ‚... almost. One, two, three ‚... the tracer bullets were pursuing me. I lowered my head and hunched myself behind my rear plating ‚... twelve, thirteen, fourteen ‚... I was going to cheat ‚...a salvo of 37 burst so close that I got only the flash of the explosions without seeing the smoke‚...splinters rained down on my fuselage‚...nineteen, twenty! I pulled the stick back and climbed straight up into the sky. The flak kept on.

I glanced back towards Schwerin, just visible under my tailplane. A thousand feet below a Tempest was climbing in zig-zags, the tracer stubbornly pursuing him. Fires near the hangars, columns of greasy smoke, a fireworks display of exploding magnesium bombs. The lone Tempest caught me up, waggled his wings and formed up line abreast.

'Hallo, Filmstar aircraft, reform south of target, angels 10.'

'Hallo, Pierre, Red 3 here, You know, I think the rest have had it.'

Surely Bay couldn't be right! I scanned the 360 degrees of the horizon, and the terrific pyramid of flak bursts above Schwerin right up to the clouds, hanging in the still air. No one.

1304 hours. We had attacked at 1303 hours. The nightmare had lasted perhaps 35 seconds from the beginning of our dive, and we had lost eight aircraft out of ten‚....
(excerpt from The Big Show and available on the Hawker Tempest page: http://user.tninet.se/~ytm843e/stories.htm)

Consider that aside from the in-line engine, the Tempest was a tougher plane like the FW190 or the P-47 and not a lighterweight plane.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RAF No 92 Squadron
"Either fight or die"

LEXX_Luthor
08-17-2004, 09:53 PM
Awsum link now forgotten with long story by P~47 pilot who attacked airfield loaded with flak towers along with 3 other P~47s. He was the only one who survived to talk.

3/4 P~47s down.

Well done Oleg http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

crazyivan's IL~2 pilot translation told of being more afraid of German flak than German fighters. Where is that translation anyway?


__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

nearmiss
08-17-2004, 10:40 PM
As I recall reading the German flak became more deadly as the war progressed. In fact, they attribute most of the accuracy of the Flak to the experience gained on the Eastern Front.

Descending while passing through flak makes a lot of sense. It works pretty well with the AI. I'm not an online player, but offline I find it helps while in the flak to vary speed, jink and descend. Ascending slows you down even with WEP engaged, but I'd say ascending is still better than zero altitude changes.

It would be cool if having the sun behind your back meant something, but it doesn't in the sim. So, nothing means much but being a humam pilot you create as much erractic movement as possible in as many ways possible to throw of the mathmatical/programmed tracing of your flight path http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif

Funny part is you're not fighting an enemy, but the all seeing eye of your computer. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

http://avsims.com/portal/modules/liens/images/banner.gif (http://avsims.com/portal/)

[This message was edited by nearmiss on Tue August 17 2004 at 09:50 PM.]

WUAF_Badsight
08-17-2004, 10:51 PM
the Flak is fine

the AAA is better

it used to be real bad , AI Gunners are now dunces

why the complaints still ?

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

NN_EnigmuS
08-18-2004, 03:18 AM
the AAA seems fine to me(as dealy as it must be)

but i really don't like getting killed by a tank firing by his main gun(if he shoot me with a mounted 12.7 or Mg42 will be correct but this way it made the game arcadish to me same as muzzle flash etc...)

http://www.nnavirex.com/public/enigmus.gif

SeaFireLIV
08-18-2004, 03:39 AM
Flak SHOULD be feared.

There are ways to avoid it using various techniques. Complaining about it is just laziness.

I have NEVER been killed by a tank and have made several attacks in my I16 (a relatively slow plane). They fire at me, and it looks close, but they NEVER hit.

BBB_Hyperion
08-18-2004, 04:10 AM
Well flak doesnt overheat , its crew is never running for cover and ammo is never out. And they always guess the range and angle right even on high deflection very good for groundspoters .)

High Ground is not only more agreeable and salubrious, but more convenient from a military point of view; low ground is not only damp and unhealthy, but also disadvantageous for fighting.

Sun Tzu : The Art of War

Regards,
Hyperion

Rab03
08-18-2004, 04:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Read The Big Show....Closterman hated flak. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Done it some time ago. There was another story, when they attacked sea plane base. Just in single attack dive, he lost all three of his flight.

See my skins at
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/JohnnyRab-SIG.jpg (http://www.il2skins.com/?action=list&authoridfilter=Rab&ts=1069857387&comefrom=credits)

jurinko
08-18-2004, 04:13 AM
i think 20mm flak is shooting at too big distances

---------------------
Letka_13/Liptow @ HL

JaBo_HH--Gotcha
08-18-2004, 05:03 AM
here's just my two cents.

being a dedicated JaBo pilot means that I mix it up with AAA very often.

the only thing I found so far is that the 85mm AAA is capable of shooting ballistic on planes...funny...

I usually build missions where airbases are protected by 3-4 AAA-batteries per Spawnpoint (which is 2 on average).

Upon approaching the target I follow these rules.

Either get in very fast or low but ALWAYS get out fast and low.

The "casual-vulch" approach:
Go in at 3+k Altitude.
At 5 km distance do a short dive on your target, close rads (funny you get less damage that way...). Hit target get out LOW. I mean low. Low is the deck or just at trees height.
Keep speed high. Do small zig-zags (not more than 20 degrees).
Light AAA will stop first. But stay low. The Big hotters will follow you up to 6 km. By this time your speed will have dropped to 500-480 anyway. Now I am doing shallow climbs.
Avverage success rate 85%. It's very often the lucky hit of the high calibre AAA which spoils the fun.

The other approach is coming in low directly. The advantage is that the light aaa wont shoot until you're virtually over the target.
The downside is that you can't see your target until you're actually there. (this method is bad for FW190 since we have such a wonderful cockpit but good if you know the target. *irony)

I found the 2nd method extremely useful in p38s. You have wonderful FOV to the front and you're fast (480 completeley loaded).
Me and my wingmen usually tear the complete aaa cover (8+ AAA) in one run.

the only thing I would like to say is that RED AAA is much heavier than blue.

I made a test and placed blue aaa over a red(designating ot for the red team of course..) airbase and I was hardly thinking about dodging to a degree where you get sloppy...
Dunno why... maybe blue gunners are just more stupid..

If you're going to circle over the base in just 3k distance you'Re asking for trouble and honestly deserve your share... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

!S!

http://www.g-c-p.de/sigbib/hh/gotcha.jpg

Willey
08-18-2004, 07:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
I have NEVER been killed by a tank and have made several attacks in my I16 (a relatively slow plane). They fire at me, and it looks close, but they NEVER hit.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They killed me 3 times in a row once, low flying Heinkel http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Willey
08-18-2004, 07:49 AM
A sidenote concerning the Flak. I've both Silent Hunter II and Destryoer command. And I may telly you, it's freaking hard to down a "Stuka" or a Sunderland even with 6 20mm barrels and one 37mm gun, either AI or myself manning one of these. And the same in the destroyers, unless I use AA shells in the main guns... and they have 20mm and 40mm Flak guns, and LOTS of them. But they're by far not as deadly as in FB.

And for real Flak: I bet there were more than &lt;~10 guns. A normal battery had 6+ guns already, placed close to each other.

It really concerns me that they have some really smart shots in FB. Something like PK with the first shot with an 88mm gun and such. And their aim. It's just too good. Flak code must be quite simple in FB. Just watch them. They always have a decent aim and make no mistakes. There's just one factor that prevents them from 100% hit rate which is a random deviation which is caused by the gun "wobbling". Kind of spray and pray with a sawed-off gun, but perfect aim. Speed doesn't matter, turns don't matter, altitude doesn't matter. Just range and target size. The closer it is, the more of the "aim cone" it fills. They don't need to get some ammo, they don't have any problems with aiming, they're not lagging in aim by much (they were turned and pitched by cranks!) and they can even see through things. It's basically exactly the same problem like with the AI gunners in AI piloted planes.

With some spare time, I might try some approachs with older versions of Il-2 and FB for comparison; I'm sure there are differences. And that's my point. It got better with FB (remember 1.0 Flak?? Ships killing you at 10-20km?).

Willey
08-18-2004, 07:52 AM
I forgot the joke about it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

pic removed due to size http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Do you see them?? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

That just increases their uberness http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

[This message was edited by Willey on Thu August 19 2004 at 07:52 AM.]

LEXX_Luthor
08-18-2004, 02:15 PM
Why do they pork threads by putting oversize pics in? They must be running 1600x1200



__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

CHDT
08-18-2004, 02:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>i think 20mm flak is shooting at too big distances<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're right. General effectivness of 20mm AA guns is between 800 and 1200 meters.

BfHeFwMe
08-19-2004, 12:54 AM
Fire control is amazing, wonderful how those five and sixteen inch naval guns can spot and shell you half a map away sitting deep inland behind hills on a parking ramp. Suppose that's realism also. A whole lot of useless CPU cycles being wasted when every gun on the map is actively tracking you. Place a hundred flak guns in a far corner of a map and watch your CPU cringe under the load without even a shot being fired flying the opposite.

One really has to wonder about Pacific fighters and fleets full of flak infested ships. How can you ever miss finding the enemy fleet when they open up on you from 40 to 60 Kms out. LoL

Obi_Kwiet
08-19-2004, 08:32 AM
There is a big diffrence bettween 40 flak guns hitting you by shear volume, and 2 flak guns hitting you 2 mi. out from the approach at 5000ft. on the 3 shot.

Willey
08-19-2004, 09:11 AM
I also do what Gotcha described here. Come in low, keep low and fast and bank a bit. Yeah, that's better, but just for two reasons. They start shooting very late and they're partially obscured by landscape and/or objects.

They still have to much lucky shots due to their simplified behaviour. I can understand that, because the engine is as old as 8 years now. I doubt they updated everything, there are still parts of code that are that old, or even older. But they might need an update, if it's possible http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif.

I just recognized that gunners, AAA, ship guns, tank main guns and artillery have the same aiming code. There's no difference. They always know where the target is, where it will be, even if it's obscured by anything and they will shoot - there's just some kind of a "random cone" in which the shells travel, a random angle &lt;=x and a random direction that generate artificial deviation.

5 years ago, Warbirds had a quite much scalable "Otto" gunner already.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The .otto parameter command applies only to the otto on your FE. When you are online, the
host's "otto_overrides" setting determines which parameters you control, and which are set by
the host.

To display current settings:
".otto params"

To set accuracy level:
".otto accuracy [level]" OR
".otto ac [level]"
Where [level] is from 1 - 10. Example ".otto ac 10" sets accuracy to highest level.

To set the range:
".otto range D[range]" OR
".otto rg D[range]"
Where [range] is from 1-12 ... don't forget to put the "D". Example: ".otto rg D10" sets range at which
otto will commence firing to D10.

To set the target refresh time:
".otto retarget_time [time]" OR
".otto rt [time]"
Where [time] is from 0-10 seconds. Example: ".otto rt 3.5" has otto look for new targets every 3.5 seconds.

To set the base burst period:
".otto burston_base [period]" OR
".otto b+ [period]"
Where [period] is from 0.5 - 4.0 seconds. Example: ".otto b+ 2.2" has otto burst for at most 2.2 seconds before pausing.

To set the "max" burst period:
".otto burston_max [period]" OR
".otto b++ [period]"
Where [period] is from 0.5 - 4.0 seconds. Example: ".otto b++ 3.0" has otto burst for at most an additional 3.0 seconds when it is hitting the target.

To set the pause in between bursts:
".otto burstoff_base [period]" OR
".otto b- [period]"
Where [period] is from 0.5 - 4.0 seconds. Example: ".otto b- 1.0" has otto pause for at most 1 second in
between bursts.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some kind of difficulty settings for them would be nice, but such complex settings would be great.