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Thunderhorse28
05-13-2004, 12:06 PM
As I understand it, when you leave your base, you will automatically get underway to your assigned patrol zone, have no control of your u-boat and cannot enter the bridge while going to your zone unless you have a random encounter with a unit(s). Are you allowed to have control of your u-boat when you reach your patrol zone? I hope that they do away with those silly and unrealistic primary tonnage objectives for the missions. We shouldn't be made to play a mission over again just because we didn't "sink 10,000 tons of enemy shipping". Play the same mission, with random elements or not, because we sunk 9,000 tons instead of 10,000 tons? It's silly. Let us progress in the campaign even if we arrive back at base with no sinkings but alive and safe. If the AI is up to snuff, then just surviving an attack and getting back to base will be accomplishment enough to continue. Tonnage requirements should be secondary and apply to promotions, medals, etc., which is why we all play, and historically accurate. If Silent Hunter 3 is being billed as a "simulation", then let's "simulate" how an actual war patrol would be conducted.

-Thunderhorse28-

Thunderhorse28
05-13-2004, 12:06 PM
As I understand it, when you leave your base, you will automatically get underway to your assigned patrol zone, have no control of your u-boat and cannot enter the bridge while going to your zone unless you have a random encounter with a unit(s). Are you allowed to have control of your u-boat when you reach your patrol zone? I hope that they do away with those silly and unrealistic primary tonnage objectives for the missions. We shouldn't be made to play a mission over again just because we didn't "sink 10,000 tons of enemy shipping". Play the same mission, with random elements or not, because we sunk 9,000 tons instead of 10,000 tons? It's silly. Let us progress in the campaign even if we arrive back at base with no sinkings but alive and safe. If the AI is up to snuff, then just surviving an attack and getting back to base will be accomplishment enough to continue. Tonnage requirements should be secondary and apply to promotions, medals, etc., which is why we all play, and historically accurate. If Silent Hunter 3 is being billed as a "simulation", then let's "simulate" how an actual war patrol would be conducted.

-Thunderhorse28-

Parsec
05-13-2004, 03:36 PM
good posting!!!

oesten
05-13-2004, 05:36 PM
I agree completely. Failure happens in war.

Suppose I'm in a Type II in 1939, and I fire off all 5 torpedoes - two of them miss, and the other three are all duds. (Realistic torpedoes selected.) I'm out of torpedoes, and can only return to base. Now as a U-boat commander, it's not my fault the torpedoes are unreliable - why should I be punished for it by having to replay the same mission again just because I didn't sink anything?

Even if I'm sunk, I should be either killed, captured or rescued by friendly craft (if near enough to home) and return to duty. But the latter case, the date should still advance, and I should be allowed to play the next mission.

In the game I'd rather get a reprimand than be forced to replay the mission. If I get too many reprimands I can be relieved of command, career over. That's fine.

But I should only have to replay the mission if I quit without saving or start a new career.

SailorSteve
05-13-2004, 09:21 PM
You three have already said it well enough, so there's nothing I can add but my agreement. I will say this though-the other thing I loved about AOD and SHI that got left out of SHII was the ability to start the new career later in the war, instead of always at the beginning. In the earlier two sims I started several careers at the beginning and ran them side-by-side. If one captain died or retired, I would start a new one to take his place. That's also part of a dynamic campaign.

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HeibgesU999
05-13-2004, 11:26 PM
in sh1 i would always start careers 6 months apart. and then play 5 patrols with each career. i liked to watch my list of commanders and their medals grow.

and I named them all after Dallas Cowboys.

in sh1 there was never enough time between missions. you usually left port a week or so after you arrived.

i never played aod, but someone said sometimes its 6 months between missions.

tradish
05-14-2004, 01:13 AM
Patrols in AOD weren't six months apart, more over like 3-4 weeks maximum. But you are right about SH1 the patrols were a bit close together.

Blood_Claw
05-14-2004, 04:16 AM
Very good posts and I just can say I fully support it. I dont want to play another "Simulation" where I can progress in the CG only if I fullfill some set requirements other than returning alive, thats utterly stupid. Regardless of the Graphics, I will stand aways from such a game.
Not to be able to jump onto the bridge anytime is also very annoying, for me at last. I red in offical statement, "the player would nothing see than open sea anyway", well for me that would be enough. If I have other things to do I love to watch this useless shiping through open seas...
The graphics of this game are always put on the front (and rightfully so cause they are really exceptionally) and the emphasis a lot the realistic weather, even in the FAQ it says "expect to meet Icebergs" - what good are these effects for if I cant watch them? Or does that mean i will engage a convoy bypassing an Iceberg? I hope not.

I sincerly hope the rethink somethings I would love to add this game to those I own.

Cheers all
Blood_Claw

[This message was edited by Blood_Claw on Fri May 14 2004 at 04:45 AM.]

Bruno_Lotse
05-14-2004, 05:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I will say this though-the other thing I loved about AOD and SHI that got left out of SHII was the ability to start the new career later in the war, instead of always at the beginning. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Steve,
It's actually very easy in SH2 with Fletcher's mode.
Just use Ctrl-Alt-~ if you want skip a mission and start campaign sometime in the middle of the war.
Should you want specifics, meet you on Subsim.com, mate.

Bruno Lotse
U45

Bruno_Lotse
05-14-2004, 05:37 AM
Sorry,
double post

SailorSteve
05-14-2004, 09:37 AM
Bruno: I know you can do that with Fletcher's mod, and I really do appreciate it, and will use it when I progress that far. But it is still just skipping missions.

Heibges: When I started SHI I had one skipper based at Pearl and another out of Manila. I only ran those two, replacing them if something happened. When the third command opened up at Fremantle I started a third boat. That's my method anyway. As to AOD, usual time in port varied from 20-30 days, always different...unless you had damage. I once came back with a severely damaged boat. Time in port-98 days!

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CB..
05-14-2004, 09:57 AM
here's hoping that there's enough thought gone into the crew managment and animation etc (i mean the interior detail looks like it can certainly hold the attention ..tho as we all know appearances can be deceptive) the game should still be worth playing and in it's own right a fantastic game..if i dont need to re mortgage the house to buy the up-grades for my PC then i shall buy it...

but if it's even slightly buggy and unreliable...then it's probably a lost cause..
and yu know how some games are ..they look right they sound right..but some thing undefinable renders them as dull as ditch water..looking at all the features mentioned so far leave me thinking that it could so easily be fantastic ,but it could allso be so easily unplayable..and the line between the two extremes is ,i reckon a very thin one...

but the fear is due to the mentioned campaign mode limitation (and it has to be said the complete lack of any further information...talk about stringing us along, i bet theyre reading all the posts in the forum and having a right old laugh )

it makes me feel the comparison between buying yur favourite musical artist's greatest hits album instead of his /hers latest full blown concept album.. ie a scripted campaign against a dynamic/open one..

it seems to me the game is on a knife edge...could fall either way....good game for playing after going down the pub with "yur mates" or a decent tactical involving simulation that has the potentail to become a hobby and catalyst for historical interest as much as simply being a lesiure pastime

im not holding my breath...i've allready turned several shades of purple..time for them to stop playing silly marketing head games and give us the info..im getting to old for this messing about lol!!!

evry time i go thru this the local wargaming society looks a more attractive alternative to PC gaming...board games start looking emmensly interesting..good old dice ,rule books and a solid dose of good old fashioned imagination..

get out the hard board and old arfix kits and buzz down the local toy shop for some train set scenery add ons..and laugh all the way to sanatorium.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

never need worry about ram graphics cards, buffer over run or dum *** gameplay ever again...

SailorSteve
05-14-2004, 10:08 PM
CB, every Tuesday night I get together with friends and play the same 3-D airwar game we've been playing since 1974...using 1/72 scale models! We also play tabletop miniatures. I'm still working on my own WWI naval game...using 1/2400 scale ship models, some of which I've converted myself (pre-Dreadnought battleships are hard to come by). GNB, AOD, SHI and even SHII let me do it by myself, but they're still only a small part of my gaming life. On top of that, painting figs and models is fun, but the FX are still only as good as your imagination.

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CB..
05-15-2004, 05:26 AM
sounds great! i know there are similar games made for the PC using the same rules etc that can be played by email etc...im slowly getting more intrigued by them every time i stumble a cross a site.......the thing about simulation games for the PC is that they allow another dimension...what can a 3d world simulation do that (apart from the graphics) an board game can't ..at first thought it would be things like real time navigation...

Redwine
05-15-2004, 08:41 AM
It is very unreal to be enforced to acomplish some objectives or "goals" to have "mission accomplished" and permision to go to the next one..........

I am sure most will be coincident on is better to do the mission, and be able to back with or without goals accomplished and be able to go to a new mission...... it is more real........I am sure this behavior of SH2 will be changed in SH3.

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pzrshrek
05-15-2004, 01:58 PM
BAH..

So its scripted missions to missions linear campaign. Not a campaign to me, we have this action game syndrome again *sigh*

Well i wont buy it, sorry...