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View Full Version : Why the (War_Clouds) death kick has to go. Just a suggestion :-)



Col_Tibbetts
05-06-2004, 08:47 PM
To whoever runs the War Clouds server:

Let me begin by saying that your server is awesome. In fact it seems to be the only "mature" or near full switch server with anyone in it these days. The maps are great and the objectives are challenging. Thanks so much for putting forth the effort to host it for us.

However the death kick is very annoying. Not that the death kick is bad in theory. It actually is great since it makes you value your virtual life. Unfortunately there are certain short comings of this sim which unrealistically eat up yout precious three lives.

1) The spawn collison problem: People who firewall it as soon as they spawn often crash right into you if you are in front of them taking your life. Other ground follies such as cross fielders cause casualties as well.

2) The lag issue: Since so many people are coming in and out of the game lag pauses are very frequent. I have lost more than one life due to the ol' "lag into the ground".

3) The vulch issue: While I have no problem with vulching on a typical server, vulching in a death kick situation is very uncool. And I know some people will say that "war is hell" but in a real war situation your airbase would have a very talented CAP protecting it. Such teamwork is non-existent online outside of squads, etc.

Please consider removing the death kick for the above reasons. If your aim is to allow more people access to your always crowded server then maybe a connection time limit is in order. A kick after an hour on the server might be a way to give others a chance.

Thanks for listening.

Col_Tibbetts

Col_Tibbetts
05-06-2004, 08:47 PM
To whoever runs the War Clouds server:

Let me begin by saying that your server is awesome. In fact it seems to be the only "mature" or near full switch server with anyone in it these days. The maps are great and the objectives are challenging. Thanks so much for putting forth the effort to host it for us.

However the death kick is very annoying. Not that the death kick is bad in theory. It actually is great since it makes you value your virtual life. Unfortunately there are certain short comings of this sim which unrealistically eat up yout precious three lives.

1) The spawn collison problem: People who firewall it as soon as they spawn often crash right into you if you are in front of them taking your life. Other ground follies such as cross fielders cause casualties as well.

2) The lag issue: Since so many people are coming in and out of the game lag pauses are very frequent. I have lost more than one life due to the ol' "lag into the ground".

3) The vulch issue: While I have no problem with vulching on a typical server, vulching in a death kick situation is very uncool. And I know some people will say that "war is hell" but in a real war situation your airbase would have a very talented CAP protecting it. Such teamwork is non-existent online outside of squads, etc.

Please consider removing the death kick for the above reasons. If your aim is to allow more people access to your always crowded server then maybe a connection time limit is in order. A kick after an hour on the server might be a way to give others a chance.

Thanks for listening.

Col_Tibbetts

Fehler
05-06-2004, 08:56 PM
Vulching: Although I dont practice this myself, I think it is a very valid piece of historical air warefare. The USAAF destroyed many many more planes ont he ground then it did in the air. The LW the same early in WWII.

The trick here is to get air cover over the base like was needed in real life.

Think of all the Me-262's that were vulched. As a matter of fact, the LW had to utilize FW's and Bf109's for cover of the 262's at their air bases.

So vulching is cool, I dont do it because I would rather bounce the vulcher.. I survive a lot more that way..

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

lbhskier37
05-06-2004, 09:24 PM
Lovin it, I have stopped flying coops at night almost totally to fly this server! I even usually fly Jabo 190s, or a 110 so the deathkick is a real issue for me, but I love it anyways.

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"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be." Adolf Galland

VFS-22_SPaRX
05-06-2004, 09:26 PM
S~

This I am the person responsible for the War Clouds servers. Let me respond to your thoughts.

1) Spawn Collisions. This is something that will go away with time. People will learn not to firewall their plane at spawn. Every action has positive and negative effects. This is one of the negative effects of the deathkick. But the positives far out way the negatives in this case. As i said, this is one thing that will go away with time. Not only does the victim lose a pilot life, but so does the pilot who rammed him. So he will quickly learn that it benefits him to check before he starts to move his aircraft.

2. Lag issues. I just spoke with the 9 players in game at this very moment. They are all on teamspeak. My question was stated as follows: "Have any of you noticed an increase in lag from players joining and leaving the server?" All but one person said that are not experiencing lag. This tells me it is not a server issue. I have stated this many times. If the server is the cause of the lag, then every playin in the game will experience the same thing. If only 80% of the players are having issues, then it is a client side issue. Also, remember that we are running a full blown server and not using the dedicated server. More then 8 times the resources is needed to run a server in this manner. Once the dedicated server is released, most of the lag issues some people are seeign will most likely be gone.

3. Vulching. You have already stated the answer to this problem. Teamwork. CAP. One of the reasons for starting the deathkick setting was to promote this, Require Teamwork to be successful. Each team has all the tools needed to help in increasing teamwork. There is a public Teamspeak server for all to use and the cost of a mic is not much at all.


S~
SPaRX

luftw4ffles
05-06-2004, 09:33 PM
so you allow vulching but you dont allow 'chute-shooting'. hmmmmmm. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

"If I had a penny for every online victory, I'd have a lot of pennies."

VFS-22_SPaRX
05-06-2004, 09:45 PM
Its like this. Vulching can be defended against. Teamwork and CAP can keep vulchers at bay. SO it will not adversly effect gameplay. There is now defense against Chute Shootin. This effects gameplay in a bad way. That is the main reason for not allowing it.

Sorry you dont agree with it. But overall gameplay is first and foremost reason for all decisions with the server.

S~ SPaRX

BaldieJr
05-06-2004, 09:51 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I think chute-shooting should be valid. Most guys have figured out how to game the game in regards to death kick... so the turn around isn't that high.

What sucks is how red is always the same group of guys in large numbers, while blue is a rag-tag group of squads using thier own comms and the left-overs who couldn't go red because of the imbalance.

I thought I'd like it, but the server took a slant towards red. They have more players and all of those guys are playing together every night. It makes playing on blue about as fun as a drink of warm water.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
Specs:
More expensive than the dining set.
Less expensive than the couch.
Smaller than the dishwasher.
Just as noisy as the refridgerator.
Faster than the cars' computer.
Less practical than the car.
Face it, people who put thier computer specs in thier signature are pretty ****ing wierd.

</pre>

WUAF_Boxer
05-06-2004, 10:02 PM
I play mostly blue and have had no problems. Many missions blue has worked together to destroy ground targets and kill vulchers.

Vulching does become tiresome though when there are constant swarms arriving at base. Like tonight on the Normady map we never had the chance to breathe. I dont know if you have increased base AA but they could use some more guns.

WUAF_MS_Boxer

VFS-22_SPaRX
05-06-2004, 10:05 PM
Boxer,

I did increase AAA, is it still not enough to hinder Base attacks? At present, i am sure i have 6 20/25mms and 4 80/88s at each base. Is it possible that they sent some pilots in to knock out the AAA first? Just trying to see what needs to be done is all http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

S~

SPaRX

BaldieJr
05-06-2004, 10:08 PM
I was in there during that. I'm probably the reason for all the chute-whining.

Red was keeping us down pretty well. I got airborne my second try but was banged up pretty bad thanks to the vulching. The guy in the chute was behind enemy lines and would have scored a death anyways, so I blasted him.

I didn't think it was an issue, otherwise I wouldn't have done it, but I figured he didn't have much of a chance being that far behind enemy lines.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
Specs:
More expensive than the dining set.
Less expensive than the couch.
Smaller than the dishwasher.
Just as noisy as the refridgerator.
Faster than the cars' computer.
Less practical than the car.
Face it, people who put thier computer specs in thier signature are pretty ****ing wierd.

</pre>

luftw4ffles
05-06-2004, 10:08 PM
I have a question. Are we allowed to 'strafe' a pilot after we vulch a plane? Technically its NOT chute shooting because there is no chute, he is just running away from his burning plane. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

"If I had a penny for every online victory, I'd have a lot of pennies."

LeadSpitter_
05-06-2004, 10:20 PM
2) The lag issue: Since so many people are coming in and out of the game lag pauses are very frequent. I have lost more than one life due to the ol' "lag into the ground".

I havent crashed from lag/1 second pauses but missed many kills the constant joiners bring.

Any time hl is busy and warclouds has spaces theres 3-4 people joining at all times and to me I rather have a smooth server how it was before when it always stayed full and not many joiners maybe 1-2 at a time. the death kick I like it, and it makes you fight harder always looking over your shoulder.I just dont think its worth the trade off of smoother play, same reason why skin dls are off in ever single server online.

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/newsig.jpg

TheGozr
05-06-2004, 10:34 PM
Sparx during the competition Germany vs France in Prowar i reduce the 88 flak to the smallest flak to ovoid high altitude killing and it work very well..
What do you think? and the 20/25 mms number of 7 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-GOZR
http://www.french.themotorhead.com/forgotten-battles/images/IOCompetition.jpg &lt;--Competition Level IL2fb here (http://www.french.themotorhead.com/forgotten-battles/)

Col_Tibbetts
05-06-2004, 11:33 PM
Actually I have discovered the worst problem with the server tonight. Due to the unbelievable inadequacy of Oleg's .50s the Germans have a HUGE advantage. Since no VVS planes can be selected it leaves a woefully underarmed Allied team against the one shot, one kill wonder weapons of the big cannon Luftwaffe.

All they do is dive from above and in one pass cripple your plane with three or four mk108 hits. They just spray and pray since they only need a few hits. While the USAAF with thier Maddox fantasy fifties must get on their tail and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick until a fuel leak is scored or something. By then they have called their buddies on Teamspeak for help.

Ohh I have a few choice words for Oleg right about now...

Col_Tibbetts

zetareticulan
05-07-2004, 12:00 AM
Dear VSF-22_SPaRX

I've looked everywhere for a link to your server, but I'll be damned if i can find it.

Please could you post a link it in a reply.

Cheers

SP

lbhskier37
05-07-2004, 01:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Col_Tibbetts:
Actually I have discovered the worst problem with the server tonight. Due to the unbelievable inadequacy of Oleg's .50s the Germans have a HUGE advantage. Since no VVS planes can be selected it leaves a woefully underarmed Allied team against the one shot, one kill wonder weapons of the big cannon Luftwaffe.

All they do is dive from above and in one pass cripple your plane with three or four mk108 hits. They just spray and pray since they only need a few hits. While the USAAF with thier Maddox fantasy fifties must get on their tail and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick until a fuel leak is scored or something. By then they have called their buddies on Teamspeak for help.

Ohh I have a few choice words for Oleg right about now...

Col_Tibbetts<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well when its 14 red to 8 blue, I guess there must be a few people who dont quite agree with you. And about my 190s "wonder weapons" I gave a P38 a 3 second burst with all my guns in one engine from less 100m when he tried to hang on his prop. Engine proceeded to flame up then flame died and plane flew on smoking but otherwise fine.

Now back on the topic, server seems fine to me, its not like people are leaving in droves. Someone must like the settings since its always full or near to it.

http://lbhskier37.freeservers.com/pics/Killasig6.jpg (http://www.il2skins.com/?action=list&whereauthorid=lbhkilla&comefrom=display&ts=1049772896)
Official "uber190n00b"
"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be." Adolf Galland

VulgarOne
05-07-2004, 01:28 AM
SPaRX,

Keep it up, you are right on. Due to the nature of air combat swarming the enemy's base is one of the best methods to achieve air supremacy . The primary thesis of combat is to catch ones opponent at a disadvantage so that victory can be assured, defense is the practice of ensuring that you never get caught at a disadvantage. (for you vulch whiner's whether you are sneaked up on in the air or the ground, you are just as dead) Simply give teams options, multiple bases, option of winning in the air or ground, preferably both. Having to win by ground attack and air victories will force teamwork.

Some you guys should go do a free trial at aces high or one of the other mmog that incorporates real-estate acquisition. IL2 players tend to have little experience with combined tactics involving large scale operations (most il2 just furball). The dynamics are far beyond what IL2 is capable of doing at this time. Now that scripting has been finally applied to IL2, people who have only flown IL2 are only now encountering the dynamics of combined warfare.

I agree the spawn idiots will learn to look both ways first. Do you cross the street with out looking both ways? Obviously you spawn idiots do look, because there are to many of you, so you know how, then do it in game idiots.

Lag I have encountered very little. As for you LeadSpitter I have seen you with a 50ms ping crying like a baby about lag. I had the same ping and smooth as a baby's bottom. Your problem is with your computer. You may not have enough memory or your OS is clogged up with to much ****.

Vulching let it breed. It is the nature of war. Ask anyone who has been in combat if they ever let the other
guy get the first shot, guarantee you they never did intentionally, or they would not be around to talk to you.
Chute shooting, well it was done by all nations. I think it should be allowed. If the enemy has enough time to
make a run at a chute, then your team is not doing its job. Does not matter when in enemy territory, could be
annoying when in own territory. Would cause you to fight better or be more careful cause even though you
may be able to bail, you might not make it.

4. Keep the death penalty. Gives reason to stay alive, or to see how good you can do with 3 lives. Being
banned for 5 mins is not that big a deal, if you cannot wait 5 mins, you got a problem. Cause I am going to
use that time to pee, get a bite to eat , some more drink and kick the dog or dog the old lady.

Overall I think it is a move in the right direction. The ability to manufacture maps and scenarios provides for much needed variety, and the maturity level has increased. Funny how so many have no stomach for a challenge.

Let the whining begin!!

Vulgar

Erbriac
05-07-2004, 01:36 AM
Sure a lot of people likes it, because there's no other server with such setting and rotating maps. VirtualPilots are a good server too, but boring after time, you'r always flying above water, pretty large map, always stays the same... I would like to have some VVS planes too on appropriate maps on the Warclouds. Yaks, LaGGs, La5 series...

****************************
312_Wraith
312. (Czechoslovak) Fighter Sq. RAF
****************************

CaptainGelo
05-07-2004, 01:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Col_Tibbetts:
To whoever runs the War Clouds server:


1) The spawn collison problem: People who firewall it as soon as they spawn often crash right into you if you are in front of them taking your life. Other ground follies such as cross fielders cause casualties as well.

2Col_Tibbetts<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

there was many acidents in the war, and many lost lives on takeoff and landing...

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''
http://www.danasoft.com/sig/oleg86.jpg
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''


plane is 2slow, guns are 2weak and DM suck?...Then click here (http://www.hmp16.com/hotstuff/downloads/Justin%20Timberlake%20-%20Cry%20Me%20A%20River.mp3) | Fear british army. (http://216.144.230.195/Videos/Medium_WMP8/British_Attack.wmv)

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05-07-2004, 05:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Its like this. Vulching can be defended against. Teamwork and CAP can keep vulchers at bay. SO it will not adversly effect gameplay. There is now defense against Chute Shootin. This effects gameplay in a bad way. That is the main reason for not allowing it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Logically, chute shooting can be easily avoided by not getting shot down in the first place.

If in such a game regime where death equals a severe penalty, but no waivers are granted for accidental happenings, and people fall under the risk of being kicked off the server for something which is not their own fault - then verily, the same should be applied to chute shooting, because there is no logical reason why not.

Frankly, if I'm in that position I'll happily destroy a chute - especially if its a good pilot who had fought me. I want to enjoy the game, and I certainly don't intend to be kicked out. Nor do I want my fellow pilots to be kicked out. So, why risk a chance by letting a skilled enemy pilot live, when the chances of him shooting you, or your fellows down is so high?

I'm not implying anything on right or wrong, but logically, vulching and chute shooting is on the same category. If vulching is allowed, then so should be chute shooting.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Sorry you dont agree with it. But overall gameplay is first and foremost reason for all decisions with the server.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Deathkick is obviously is a gameplay improvement only for people who can afford to stay alive in the server. Obviously those who are kicked out, don't have a 'game' at all.

This is not directed at the Warclouds, nor to the people who enjoy the accomodations the Warclouds has to offer.

Purely stating in terms of gameplay, "deathkick" is one of the cases where the obsession towards "realism" is so great that people forget that ultimately, no matter what they want to believe, this is only a game.

I'd understand the deathkick applied to a formal contest or a FFA tournament, but for a server which aims for many different people to enjoy and play in it, its a very bad idea.

(Not to mention people obsessed with survival are usually as dweebey as those who are suicidal.)

But that's my 2 cents anyway. I hope the Warclouds will have much better success with the deathkick option, than some of the other games which chose to employ a simular system and then regretted doing so direly.

Diablo310th
05-07-2004, 06:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Col_Tibbetts:
To whoever runs the War Clouds server:

Let me begin by saying that your server is awesome. In fact it seems to be the only "mature" or near full switch server with anyone in it these days. The maps are great and the objectives are challenging. Thanks so much for putting forth the effort to host it for us.

However the death kick is very annoying. Not that the death kick is bad in theory. It actually is great since it makes you value your virtual life. Unfortunately there are certain short comings of this sim which unrealistically eat up yout precious three lives.

1) The spawn collison problem: People who firewall it as soon as they spawn often crash right into you if you are in front of them taking your life. Other ground follies such as cross fielders cause casualties as well.

2) The lag issue: Since so many people are coming in and out of the game lag pauses are very frequent. I have lost more than one life due to the ol' "lag into the ground".

3) The vulch issue: While I have no problem with vulching on a typical server, vulching in a death kick situation is very uncool. And I know some people will say that "war is hell" but in a real war situation your airbase would have a very talented CAP protecting it. Such teamwork is non-existent online outside of squads, etc.

Please consider removing the death kick for the above reasons. If your aim is to allow more people access to your always crowded server then maybe a connection time limit is in order. A kick after an hour on the server might be a way to give others a chance.

Thanks for listening.

Col_Tibbetts<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Tibbets....I'm a regular flyer on WarClouds. I didn't notice any more lag last night than at any other time on the server. Yes that is a problem with teh collisions taking off.....that is something that needs to be addressed by the players in game. As far as vulching....for teh first tiem last night I actually vulched on purpose. I led a flight of 5 on a strafing run across teh blue base. We circled overhead looking for fighter cover and saw none so we braved the AAA and made a high speed pass. We paid for it tho with 2 ac being damaged by AAA. If you tried that over the Red base you would find fighter cover to have to deal with. The Red teams usually has up to 10 players on TS comms and we are all working together. This is waht teh Blue team needs to do. I didn't see more than 2 players on comms for Blue last night. I personally like the deathkick. It makes u think about alot of things u normally would not worry about. One such thing is that while circling over Blue base taking AAA fire we moved outside teh zone of fire to avoid being picked off by the AAA while serching for fighter cover. It's little things like this that have made this that much more enjoyable now. ~S~ to my fellow Red pilots Mort(aka Alvin), Gypsy my squaddie, Pepper, and all the others on comms.

http://img54.photobucket.com/albums/v166/310thDiablo/Diablos20Sig.jpg

Diablo310th
05-07-2004, 06:46 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BaldieJr:
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I think chute-shooting should be valid. Most guys have figured out how to game the game in regards to death kick... so the turn around isn't that high.

What sucks is how red is always the same group of guys in large numbers, while blue is a rag-tag group of squads using thier own comms and the left-overs who couldn't go red because of the imbalance.

I thought I'd like it, but the server took a slant towards red. They have more players and all of those guys are playing together every night. It makes playing on blue about as fun as a drink of warm water.
_____________________________________________


http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif heyy Baldie...I noticed u changed sides last night. You are right about Red being teh same group of guys each night on comms. that is true. It's one reason that Red has been doing so well lately. I enjoyed u flying Red with us before..come back from the Dark Side. LOL Getting more people on comms for Blue is waht is needed. I see alot of regulars on blue...tehy need to get together. As far as chute shooting...I don't liek it much....yeah it was part of war....but like Sparx said..there is no defence for it other than hit refly as soon as u can. You have some good points tho.....they just need to be worked out.

http://img54.photobucket.com/albums/v166/310thDiablo/Diablos20Sig.jpg

TgD Thunderbolt56
05-07-2004, 07:06 AM
The addy for the warclouds server is here : http://www.war-clouds.net



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

BaldieJr
05-07-2004, 07:33 AM
Believe me Diablo, I would have been on red if it wasn't 15 vs 8!

I always have a blast with you guys, and I even score a few kills in a wimply P40 thanks to all the free situational awareness from you fellows.

The best was the mass-P47 ground pounding the other night. Besides dropping our bombs on the wrong target, we were doing pretty good as a group.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
Specs:
More expensive than the dining set.
Less expensive than the couch.
Smaller than the dishwasher.
Just as noisy as the refridgerator.
Faster than the cars' computer.
Less practical than the car.
Face it, people who put thier computer specs in thier signature are pretty ****ing wierd.

</pre>

NorrisMcWhirter
05-07-2004, 08:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Col_Tibbetts:

"Due to the unbelievable inadequacy of Oleg's .50s the Germans have a HUGE advantage."


"All they do is dive from above and in one pass cripple your plane with three or four mk108 hits."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL!

That has to be the funniest post I have seen for some time...What a class act!

Only 4 Mk108 hits to take down a red plane?

Just the 4? LOL.

I'd expect a plane to be severely damaged after 1 hit...damaged enough to be unflyable in combat, at least.

If you had seen that pic of a [metal skinned] Spit after 1 Mk108 hit, posted recently, you'd know what I was talking about. Let's be serious - the LW cannons are porked at the moment - end of story. If they weren't, they would be being fixed.

Thanks, again, for making my day!

Much amused,
Norris

PS: LOL. Sorry, had to laugh again.

================================================== ==========

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WOLFMondo
05-07-2004, 08:15 AM
Last night It was jumping all over the place. it was better once in the air though.

As for vulchers. I took of in a G6/AS and just as I raised my undercarrage a P38 opened fire, did some damage to my ailerons and engine and then slammed into the back of me instead of overshooting. I got the kill for some reason but if death kick is on then ist people like that who need to be kicked due to careless flying rather than someone like me who died when they were not in a position to defend them selves. Had he broke off I could of at least climbed a little and bailed.

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yarbles67
05-07-2004, 08:15 AM
I actually think they should do a single kill ban. Most lag kills are due to pilot error in that they observe some warp but still chooose to get in tight for a kill instead of maybe just pulling off and regrouping. Eveytime I've been lag killed it's been my fault to a certain degree. Lag and warp is a fact of online flying. As it stands, the three kill ban is a good compromise. I hope it stays.

Osirisx9
05-07-2004, 08:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VFS-22_SPaRX:
Boxer,

I did increase AAA, is it still not enough to hinder Base attacks? At present, i am sure i have 6 20/25mms and 4 80/88s at each base. Is it possible that they sent some pilots in to knock out the AAA first? Just trying to see what needs to be done is all http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

S~

SPaRX<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Shhhhhhhhhhh. Dont give away our tactics.

RAF238thOsiris

Diablo310th
05-07-2004, 08:57 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BaldieJr:
Believe me Diablo, I would have been on red if it wasn't 15 vs 8!

I always have a blast with you guys, and I even score a few kills in a wimply P40 thanks to all the free situational awareness from you fellows.

The best was the mass-P47 ground pounding the other night. Besides dropping our bombs on the wrong target, we were doing pretty good as a group.

__________________________________________

Yeah we had a blast that night. 5 Jugs loaded down and hunting for bear. LOL

http://img54.photobucket.com/albums/v166/310thDiablo/Diablos20Sig.jpg

gates123
05-07-2004, 10:28 AM
I havent flown the jug much but last night on WC I did. I took her up to 5k and bounced a 109 at 4500k. Opened up at 100m saw MANY hits and he jinked and I let him turn to bleed E. After a 10 min. dogfight he got the advantage and hit me around 1k. Until the 50cals are fixed I'm not flying this plane!

http://www.flightjournal.com/images/index_photos/gunslinging.jpg
Did anyone see that or was it just me?

LuftLuver
05-07-2004, 11:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:
Let's be serious - the LW cannons are porked at the moment - end of story. If they weren't, they would be being fixed.

Thanks, again, for making my day!

Much amused,
Norris

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gee Norrwhirter, nice job. I've watched you cry endlessly on Warclouds about your luftie guns. I've even seen you claim the .50s are overmodeled clown guns. Your grip on reality is non-existent.

And "the LW cannons are porked at the moment - end of story. If they weren't, they would be being fixed"

That's the stupidest thing I've seen posted up here in a long time. Following this logic, if they announce an increase on the Yak3 hitting power, then he11 it must be the right way to go because they "being fixed". They are being fixed for one simple reason: Endless LW crying. Some of you guys would be suicidal if you had to try and compete with the lame US guns since day one of AEP.

Currently the LW cannons are absolutely devastating. I only fly allied but one evening out of curiousity I took up a G/AS and easily scored 3 kills. One of which was a P38 and it simply crumbled under the mk108 fire. And all you can think to do is ask for more hitting power? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

Instead of crying, you should have been enjoying the LW happy times of 2.0, because it's about to end. Even if they falsely increase the lw guns from "devastating" to "clown" it won't matter. The first burst of .50's will no longer be a warning "door knocker" shot.

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
"All your bases are belong to us."

NorrisMcWhirter
05-07-2004, 11:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuftLuver:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:
Let's be serious - the LW cannons are porked at the moment - end of story. If they weren't, they would be being fixed.

Thanks, again, for making my day!

Much amused,
Norris

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gee Norrwhirter, nice job. I've watched you cry endlessly on Warclouds about your luftie guns. I've even seen you claim the .50s are overmodeled clown guns. Your grip on reality is non-existent.

And "the LW cannons are porked at the moment - end of story. If they weren't, they would be being fixed"

That's the stupidest thing I've seen posted up here in a long time. Following this logic, if they announce an increase on the Yak3 hitting power, then he11 it must be the right way to go because they "being fixed". They are being fixed for one simple reason: Endless LW crying. Some of you guys would be suicidal if you had to try and compete with the lame US guns since day one of AEP.

Currently the LW cannons are absolutely devastating. I only fly allied but one evening out of curiousity I took up a G/AS and easily scored 3 kills. One of which was a P38 and it simply crumbled under the mk108 fire. And all you can think to do is ask for more hitting power? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

Instead of crying, you should have been enjoying the LW happy times of 2.0, because it's about to end. Even if they falsely increase the lw guns from "devastating" to "clown" it won't matter. The first burst of .50's will no longer be a warning "door knocker" shot.

????????????????????????????????????????????
"All your bases are belong to us."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi,

Nice to see that someone can keep it on the level (cough).

Indeed, I have said that the Barnes Wallis .50s are clown guns in Warclouds.

And they are.

Just because a plane does not disintegrate within a femtosecond of opening up your .50s doesn't mean that they are 'lame'. Anyone one the receiving end knows that the time between hearing a burst of .50s and the 109/190 cockpit being a right off/plane damaged is very short. Rarely do I hear a burst of fire over 0.5 seconds before the plane I am in resembles a teabag...with a tear in the **** end of it.

Interestingly, I similarly tested out the 'other side of the coin' as documented in another post of mine. In that, I outlined a case study of taking out a P51, resulting in much higher kill/survival rates. As I stated, I'm no ace but I was consistently shooting down LW planes and, even after being hit, being able to make it back to base OK. Whereas, earlier in the evening, I have seen a 30mm hits on P51s, on one occasion in both wings, only causing a fuel leak - the hit plane then succeeded in outturning me (woooo - good DM) before escaping.

You see, if I was the only one who ever whined about the cannons, I could be said to have lost my grip on reality. However, I am not - there are plenty of others who have noticed either (since v1.22):

a. A decrease in 20mm/30mm effectiveness.
b. An increase in plane resilience (modified DM)

And, let's face it, when you take away the effectiveness of the LW to kill something within a couple of passes, you may as well take the planes out of the game. Or maybe that is the plan?

Of course, I wouldn't expected you to be biased at all (I seem to have developed a cough) against LW, as you have stated that you only fly allied.

As I have always maintained, if the .50s are too weak at the moment, make them historically accurate. But, in doing so, all other guns in the game should also be modelled correctly - in this case, the LW peashooters. I don't mind historical accuracy at all...there's nothing to whine about if that is the case.

I'm have a theory, though, that the marketing boys, with their statistical charts of how many .50 whines per microsecond are posted on these forums, will soon have 1C modifying the gun models to maximise profits from certain (cough, cough) markets.

Cheers,
Norris

================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam :
http://cabinessence.cream.org/

: More irreverence :
http://www.tvgohome.com/

: You've seen them... :
www.chavscum.co.uk (http://www.chavscum.co.uk)

IV|JG51Flatspin
05-07-2004, 12:10 PM
Nah, deathkick is good IMO, and it should stay. I'm not entirely against amending it to allow a certain number of deaths per certain timeframe which should allow for the occasional spawn collision or lag death, but overall the plusses outweigh the negs for me.

S!
http://onfinite.three10.com/libraries/display.php?lid=7263&d=b1008b8d43897858d12fc0bee42f7679
=Flatspin=
=Elite=XO=Bomber Commander
The Wings of Freedom (http://www.elitepx.com)

Capt_Pepper
05-07-2004, 12:50 PM
Howdy All.

Fortunately, I've been able to play for several hours each day this week and at different times, mostly in the afternoon into the late evening (it's my last week before going back to workhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) Anyway, outlined below are some observations from this timeframe and put forth only as a personal opinion.

Team equality:
The overwhelming majority of time, the teams have been very even. In fact, the missions have mostly come down to the wire....usually only a difference of 1 to 3 planes remaining for each side. Additionally, almost everyone has shared in the spirit of good sportsmanship and fair play. Yes, there's seemingly descrepancies in the plane sets from time to time, but they're not totally out of line and a lot of it is the pilot as well.

Chute Shoooting:
It's not been a rampant problem, but has occurred at noticeable times, which has seemingly brought it to the forefront for discussion. Overall, with a few exceptions, I think everyone has been pretty respectful of it and it's not abused.

Vultching:
It's certainly been a bigger part of the game than before and has been more interesting. In fact, it's been evident that both sides are thinking more carefully about it, with very few individual random attacks. Both sides seem to be doing better job of coordinating their attacks and working more as a team.....not always, but very often, depending upon who's on and when.

Three Kill, 5 minute ban:
Personally, I wasn't too sure about it at first, but have found it to be a good thing. Pilots are definitely thinking more and are far less careless overall. It's also requiring far more team communication to occur if the team goal is to win the mission. Also, when I have been knocked out of the game, it's been a good time to grab a bite, hit the head, etc. As importantly, I've waited far less time to get back into the game than before....much less.

With respect to lag, I haven't noticed it to be any worse because of more players entering and exiting the game.

Also on the subject of team play, yes it's true that Red has done a much better job communicating...from covering home base to coordinated attacks. The results have been more victories.

I can tell you that the comms on Red have been unbelievable.....team spirit to equal any squad.....no concern for individual points; sharing of flying knowledge: gunnery tips, maneuvering, attack patterns, procedures, etc. As importantly, it's been incredibly FUNNY!! I've met more great people, learned more, had more fun and laughed harder this week than at any previous time on line! I believe this is what it's all about, and to all those with whom I've flown, THANKS!!! IT'S BEEN JUST OUTSTANDING!!!!

There is no apparent reason why Blue hasn't done this as well...it's been mostly the same players each day. (Actually, they have communicated quite often, but not as consistently as Red.) The majority of time, very few Blue players were ever on comms (at least the War Clouds T/S) all week. I have no explanation for this.

Bottom line, IMHO, the server at this point is designed for team play on comms for the more experienced pilot. If you enjoy this kind of play, you'll like flying here. Additionally, you will consistently find many of the same players each day, as well as meet a lot of new ones. The majority are all very respectful of one another. You will probably learn new things about the game as well as those with whom you are flying. There are some rules, which all are reasonable and helpful, and serve to make the game fun and interesting. If these are the kinds of things you like in a server, then War Clouds is it.

(Geez, I'm rambling beyond belief.....This has NOT been a paid political endorsement, but I'll accept donationshttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Anyway, as I started out saying in my first paragraph, all of this is just my opinion from my experiences this past week.

Hope you all have a great dayhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

triggerhappyfin
05-07-2004, 01:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Col_Tibbetts:
To whoever runs the War Clouds server:

Let me begin by saying that your server is awesome. In fact it seems to be the only "mature" or near full switch server with anyone in it these days. The maps are great and the objectives are challenging. Thanks so much for putting forth the effort to host it for us.

However the death kick is very annoying. Not that the death kick is bad in theory. It actually is great since it makes you value your virtual life. Unfortunately there are certain short comings of this sim which unrealistically eat up yout precious three lives.

1) The spawn collison problem: People who firewall it as soon as they spawn often crash right into you if you are in front of them taking your life. Other ground follies such as cross fielders cause casualties as well.

2) The lag issue: Since so many people are coming in and out of the game lag pauses are very frequent. I have lost more than one life due to the ol' "lag into the ground".

3) The vulch issue: While I have no problem with vulching on a typical server, vulching in a death kick situation is very uncool. And I know some people will say that "war is hell" but in a real war situation your airbase would have a very talented CAP protecting it. Such teamwork is non-existent online outside of squads, etc.

Please consider removing the death kick for the above reasons. If your aim is to allow more people access to your always crowded server then maybe a connection time limit is in order. A kick after an hour on the server might be a way to give others a chance.

Thanks for listening.

Col_Tibbetts<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


As for #1 - I´ve never before on a dogfight server seen ppl taxi to runway...as with present settings. They seem to really make sure of noone is in their way before accelerating.

As for #2 - These lag issues been there all along.

As for #3 - War IS hell...vulching is not free of risks. To create such teamwork in df servers someone has to take command. Telling ppl what to do http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Keep the deathkick, get rid of those icons as well http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I will continue enjoyin ur server in future http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif.

Gettin my but kicked http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

BS87
05-07-2004, 02:51 PM
Norris, the .50s are not clown guns, an neither at the LW guns. The 20mms are porked, and need fixing, and MAYBE the mk108/3. But you have to remember, not every single shell in a mk108 load out was MG, so you cannot realistically expect every shot to be a one-hit-wonder. I have no trouble downing anything with mk108, infact i think they are too easy, but i suppose they were in real life. But one thing i just cannont take is your ENDLESS WHINING about the .50s. Yeah, maybe they are spray and pray. THATS HOW THEY WERE USED! the US liked them because it was easier for our relativly "rookie" pilots to hit something with spray and pray, and not have to be crack-shots like LF aces. Just because its easier to hit with .50cal does not make them a clown gun. Its not like 1.2 or earlier where a few .50cal would saw off a wing, i rarely see that happening now, unless someone is dumb enough to sit and stay in a 10 second long burst. The point is, 90% of the guns got porked in AEP, so just deal with it like everyone else. Sure, sometimes i get pissed because i bounce someone good, spray them nice with the .50s and only get a few hits due to the horrible dispersion, but i deal with it. Supposedly, guns will be fixed in the next patch, and i hope this will include both the .50s dispersion, the LW 20mm, and the MG17(which is worse than .303 as this point)


Wow, looking over that post, i type like i'm drunk

NorrisMcWhirter
05-08-2004, 10:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BS87:
ENDLESS WHINING about the .50s. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some points:

Whining is what Luftwhiners do.

Also, I'm glad that you agree about the LW guns being porked.

Like I said, the crux of the problem for me is that it takes relatively little fire from .50s to down a LW plane RELATIVE to how many hits are required to down a US/other plane with the LW guns. In other words, the frustration arises out of the fact that you can see planes escape after taking many 20/30mm hits that simply should no longer be in the air (and a threat) - that's the point.

i.e. If all things were equal and the LW guns took down threats as they were supposed to, then I wouldn't be complaining about the .50s because the enemy wouldn't be in the air to use them.

And the argument is directed at .50s simply because servers mostly adopt a USAF/RAF vs LW slant these days. As if it could be worse...

Norris

================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam :
http://cabinessence.cream.org/

: More irreverence :
http://www.tvgohome.com/

: You've seen them... :
www.chavscum.co.uk (http://www.chavscum.co.uk)

BS87
05-08-2004, 04:09 PM
Very true. Most of the time i play LW and use mk108, 1-2 hits is usually enough. But i agree, it IS frustrating to se a P38 or P51 take 5+mk108 hits (explosions and all) and fly away with just a little loss in manueverability.