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View Full Version : Let's talk trim....not you, RBJ



RichardI
09-28-2003, 12:43 AM
OK guys, let's talk trim. RBJ, everybody has already heard ad-nauseum from you on this subject.
I'm talking to the rest of the guys. Do you use trim? If so, how do you use it and when?
In RL, I know the pilots used trim because I've read many stories where it's mentioned. But they don't get into explaining how OR when they used it, other than for straight and level flight.
What I'm wondering is, if I use trim, how do I know where it's set? In the heat of battle, I'll lose track of which way it's set and there are no indicators in the game to tell me. How do I know when it's at full travel? Or when it's neutral? In RL there were detentes on some trim wheels (some didn't have wheels at all) or raised markings which could be clearly seen or felt by the pilot. I tried that in FB and the trim wheels don't actually function.
I know that before take-offs or landings, they would "trim for landing" or take-off. Does anybody here do that?
Anyway, I never use trim in this game. Does anybody?

Rich /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<Center>http://www.ghosts.com/images/postimages/THUNDERBOLT.jpg <Center>I've got 140 109's cornered over Berlin!

RichardI
09-28-2003, 12:43 AM
OK guys, let's talk trim. RBJ, everybody has already heard ad-nauseum from you on this subject.
I'm talking to the rest of the guys. Do you use trim? If so, how do you use it and when?
In RL, I know the pilots used trim because I've read many stories where it's mentioned. But they don't get into explaining how OR when they used it, other than for straight and level flight.
What I'm wondering is, if I use trim, how do I know where it's set? In the heat of battle, I'll lose track of which way it's set and there are no indicators in the game to tell me. How do I know when it's at full travel? Or when it's neutral? In RL there were detentes on some trim wheels (some didn't have wheels at all) or raised markings which could be clearly seen or felt by the pilot. I tried that in FB and the trim wheels don't actually function.
I know that before take-offs or landings, they would "trim for landing" or take-off. Does anybody here do that?
Anyway, I never use trim in this game. Does anybody?

Rich /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<Center>http://www.ghosts.com/images/postimages/THUNDERBOLT.jpg <Center>I've got 140 109's cornered over Berlin!

XyZspineZyX
09-28-2003, 12:53 AM
Most that use trim, have a rotary wheel or slider, that has a center stop. This allows for knowing where the middle is and the rest is just "feel" as you fly.

One thing that may help, SHIFT + any of the trims, drops the trim back to neutral position, no matter where it was. Like you use CTRL + any of them to trim (Up, down, left, right arrows and Z or X). The shift key + drops them back to neutral.

Also, you can assign a key to "Level Stabilizer" in the "Controls" section and instantly level your plane out by toggling this on and off. I do this now, right after achieving cruise and the plane is perfectly trimmed for going into the battle./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

_______________________________________
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XyZspineZyX
09-28-2003, 12:54 AM
I don't use trim to dog fight. I use it for level flight. Just feels better to me when I get involved in a dog fight, that my plane is neutral for level flight. Now I don't know if it is historically correct not to use trim in a dog fight, it just suits my flying not doing that. Now, if I had a decent joystick, (real soon I hope), I might assign it a control that is easily accessible and give it a try. There are views that go both ways on this forum. I know it was a topic of interest a few days ago and you might read through those threads for a lot of different opinions. Most of them, if not all of them were posted by raaaid. S! to you sir!

XyZspineZyX
09-28-2003, 12:59 AM
Oh and before RBJ DOES get here, anyone that dogfights in this game without using trim, is going to have an extremely tough time being successful against the Aces that do.

Just FYI./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Trim allows the hardest turns possible in this game and even though it is slowed down in FB, it is a must for those who wish to be at the pinnacle of success with this game.

Be Sure.

I'm not joking in any way, shape or form. Try it. Trim full nose-up and do the same loop you did with neutral trim. If you can't see the difference, then just keep flying the way you're flying now. Trimmers like neutral flyers as opponents./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-28-2003, 01:29 AM
I don't bother with trim. Too troublesome.

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Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-28-2003, 01:29 AM
I use a throttle quadrant, which has also 2 axes that look like 2 volume levelers. I set them for X and Y axis, but don't use them in the fight, I always forget to put them back and bat turing around consumes WAY more energy than turning normally. I use it only for cruising, or getting out of a hard dive. Combat flaps are a good trade for trim, when tunring.

Listen m8, I dont wanna change the subject, but focus more on combat tactics than game tweaks.

Using trim for tunring will only help you in a tight knit, long-lasting turn fight, with same or similar tunring planes.


good luck



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XyZspineZyX
09-28-2003, 02:48 AM
I use trim. Elevator trim is set on my hat switch.

I use it all the time. (even in combat.)

All in all, Trim is essential.

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XyZspineZyX
09-28-2003, 02:56 AM
I dont use trim as much as i should, but sometimes for that extra 'boost' in a turn i use combat flaps...they actually work now.

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XyZspineZyX
09-28-2003, 03:16 AM
hm, should trim really affect the max travel of the control surface?
i could get the he111 rudder to go past 90degrees with trim
to 180 actully /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-28-2003, 03:25 AM
i have NEVER used trim to dogfight. only to trim my plane for level or to level out a dive. do people really roll the trim when in turn fights? call me new if you want but i havent heard of that here. only in IL2 with trim on a slider whatever that was. thought it wasnt done in FB

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Buzz_25th
09-28-2003, 03:35 AM
Sounds like Slick uses the trim cheat. It's ok though, because everybody uses it../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-28-2003, 03:55 AM
if we are talking about the game i think you just need to remember 1 position of your joystick trim(since you cant spect to be able to level the plane with this trim), fly leveled with flaps,myself i remember a marking on the joystick wheel.the other position to use, sadly is fully trimmed
and as for the simulator they made the trim wrong in il2 and absolutly ridiculous in fb
a trim doesnt take that long to operate in a fighter
a trim doesnt make the plane pitch or bank that much hands off,since the force of the wind,fully trimmed,at some point will beat the force that causes the stick to be centered.
a trim should help in turns since a trimmed rudder causes less turbulence than a simple one, turbulence is what causes stall.
doesnt exist at all a force model for the trim
the change to avoid the use of the trim in combat has been made with these other changes to please who:
ridiculous stalls
sissy setting of the elevator in most planes,i keep the joystick pulled fully most of the time,this shouldnt happen even for a second
autoleveling key
weapons with wich you dont even have to bother to align your enemy for some time
etc

they turned a great sim into something that is more fun to talk about than to play

XyZspineZyX
09-28-2003, 04:11 AM
In the real world trim serves only one purpose: to relieve control pressures. To maintain level flight at various speeds you must re-trim the aircraft. Suppose you are flying level and hands free at 300 kmh, if you add in power, you will initially start to accelerate, but this lasts for only a few seconds before the aircraft begins to climb. Over time the aircraft will stabilize in a climb at 300 kmh, your trimmed airspeed. In short, you trim your aircraft to tell it what speed you wish to fly. lots of nose up trim = lower level flight speed.

In certain aircraft, when approaching transonic flight where compressibility factors in stick forces can get very high. An example would be the P-51D in a dive. At mach .75 the P-51 will begin to enter a porpoise and the controls will require far higher stick force to make a recovery (and if you keep accelerating your life may be near its end) In situations where a very steep dive is planned, a pilot may trim nose up (requiring the pilot to put forward pressure on the stick to fly level, but providing him a little help with the pull out.

As far as trim in a dogfight, there would be not reason for it in a real aircraft. You may still trim here and there, but it is the same as general flying, you trim to relieve high stick forces. As far as in the sim, there are people who trim their aircraft in such a way as to exploit some flaws in the way in which the control surface/aerodynamics are done, but I am not sure how common this is as I generally try to avoid relying on yank and bank techniques, and those that employ them run out of energy so soon that it is not relevant to me how many G's they just pulled as it gives them no advantage against a foe who holds a superior energy state.


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XyZspineZyX
09-28-2003, 04:17 AM
Buzz_25th wrote:
- Sounds like Slick uses the trim cheat. It's ok
- though, because everybody uses it../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I use the trim that is readily available for all to use. I might categorize this as an exploit, but certainly not a cheat.

However, it does sound like you've reached a small milestone, Buzz. You must be enjoying online flying now and have started to use trim?


MUHAHAHAHAHA! Welcome to the Dark Side./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-28-2003, 05:16 AM
besides, at high speed dives it will always be easier to move the small surface of the trim tab rather than the big surface of the elevator,but they just killed this feature by slowing it down instead of solving the force model of the trim

Buzz_25th
09-28-2003, 05:40 AM
Sorry Slick. I don't use trim to increase my turns. Exploits are not my style.

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XyZspineZyX
09-28-2003, 07:19 AM
I see.

Some of us just have that competition blood in us and know that every other pilot in competition is going to use whatever means, within the boundaries of the game, they can find.

I just like to keep up with the Jones'. Sometimes, I even pass them./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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çk?¯kT 2003**

T_O_A_D
09-28-2003, 08:12 AM
I use it for the fastest level flight I can attain. Its a bit too fussy anymore to be used as an exploit as far as I'm concerend. I wish they would make it so it was more like IL2 originaly but if you ran it full scale to quickly it would break, till your next take off. That way we that use it for slight adjustments would have to be so tedious about it.

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XyZspineZyX
09-28-2003, 10:06 AM
One of my squadmates posted this in our forums a while back. It's from Bud Anderson, a triple P51 ace:

This is an excerpt from Bud Anderson's book:

BEGIN EXCERPT

A lot of this is just instinct now. Things are happening too fast to think everything out. You steer with your right hand and feet. The right hand also triggers the guns. With your left, you work the throttle, and keep the airplane in trim, which is easier to do than describe.

Any airplane with a single propeller produces torque. The more horsepower you have, the more the prop will pull you off to one side. The Mustangs I flew used a 12-cylinder Packard Merlin engine that displaced 1,649 cubic inches. That is 10 times the size of the engine that powers an Indy car. It developed power enough that you never applied full power sitting still on the ground because it would pull the plane's tail up off the runway and the propeller would chew up the concrete. With so much power, you were continually making minor adjustments on the controls to keep the Mustang and its wing-mounted guns pointed straight.

There were three little palm-sized wheels you had to keep fiddling with. They trimmed you up for hands-off level flight. One was for the little trim tab on the tail's rudder, the vertical slab which moves the plane left or right. Another adjusted the tab on the tail's horizontal elevators that raise or lower the nose and help reduce the force you had to apply for hard turning. The third was for aileron trim, to keep your wings level, although you didn't have to fuss much with that one. Your left hand was down there a lot if you were changing speeds, as in combat . . . while at the same time you were making minor adjustments with your feet on the rudder pedals and your hand on the stick. At first it was awkward. But, with experience, it was something you did without thinking, like driving a car and twirling the radio dial.

It's a little unnerving to think about how many things you have to deal with all at once to fly combat.

END EXCERPT

Although I would agree with TX-EcoDragon that it was used to reduce control forces, I would disagree that there is no place for trim in a dogfight--there most certainly is. Just read Chuck Yeager's book, "Yeager". Yeager talks about flying in combat with one hand on the trim wheel. I also read an interview of a Luftwaffe pilot (who was in the Battle of Britain) who said that he would use elevator trim to tighten a turn ...to get his gunsight to bear on the enemy.

Note most of this info comes from _54th_Target, who is quite the aviation buff/historian and a very good combat sim pilot.

As far as implementing trim so you don't lose track of the positioning, you can either re-map your throttle axis to trim and use other keys to handle the engine power (distant third choice), get an additional controller that is just used for trimming (e.g., another USB joystick--a second choice), or get a stick that has rotaries (like an X45)--this is by far the best choice, IMHO.

You should make your own call on whether or not you think it helps or not. It is a very personal choice...as you can see (some think its a cheat, others realistic, others have no clue).

To answer your questions, I don't use trim YET in this game--the reaction to the inputs even at full deflection is minimal and slow to react. I don't know if this is realistic or not, having never flown a real airplane let alone a WW2 bird. But there are times in a looping fight (like against ace AI) where I bet it would come in handy.

I have used trim in the M$ CFS2 and CFS3 games, though--it does help tighten your turns just a little extra bit which can easily be the difference between a viable firing solution (or escaping) and getting (virtually) killed later on by the guy who got away.

Hope this helps.

* SithSpeeder / _54th_Speeder *

XyZspineZyX
09-28-2003, 10:17 AM
Griffon_25th wrote:
- I dont use trim as much as i should, but sometimes
- for that extra 'boost' in a turn i use combat
- flaps...they actually work now.

Unfortunately flaps give most aircraft in this game a nose UP moment. It is wrong. The bug has been submitted umpty-gazillion times and Oleg didn't give a crap. Be sure.

XyZspineZyX
09-28-2003, 12:45 PM
I love it when I can get my joystick alittle trim. What with the force feedback and centering tension from a long night of flyin there is nothing like some trim to take you away.

XyZspineZyX
09-28-2003, 01:44 PM
as we are on the topic trim right now...
i own a Saitek X45, which has these two rotarybuttons on the throttle. In Il2 trimming with them was just perfect, i could rotate them a bit in the one direction, and the nose pitched a little up, than in the other direction, and the plane was leveled again, and if i turn a bit further, it pitches down. Now, in FB, the trim is absolute crappy. I move the rotarywheel a bit - nothing happens, i move it again, still nothing does happen. then i twist it arround like crazy and - bang the plane is trimmed into a random direction, and i cant trim it back anymore. this is really driving me mad. its much easier to aim when your plane is trimmed properly.
So has anyone a solution for this problem?



Message Edited on 09/28/0312:49PM by DeBaer.534

XyZspineZyX
09-28-2003, 02:27 PM
SlickStick wrote:
- Oh and before RBJ DOES get here, anyone that
- dogfights in this game without using trim, is going
- to have an extremely tough time being successful
- against the Aces that do.
-
- Just FYI./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-
- Trim allows the hardest turns possible in this game
- and even though it is slowed down in FB, it is a
- must for those who wish to be at the pinnacle of
- success with this game.
-
- Be Sure.
-
- I'm not joking in any way, shape or form. Try it.
- Trim full nose-up and do the same loop you did with
- neutral trim. If you can't see the difference, then
- just keep flying the way you're flying now.
- Trimmers like neutral flyers as opponents

- çk?¯kT 2003**


LMAO



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T_O_A_D
09-28-2003, 11:02 PM
DeBaer.534 wrote:
- as we are on the topic trim right now...
- i own a Saitek X45, which has these two
- rotarybuttons on the throttle. In Il2 trimming with
- them was just perfect, i could rotate them a bit in
- the one direction, and the nose pitched a little up,
- than in the other direction, and the plane was
- leveled again, and if i turn a bit further, it
- pitches down. Now, in FB, the trim is absolute
- crappy. I move the rotarywheel a bit - nothing
- happens, i move it again, still nothing does happen.
- then i twist it arround like crazy and - bang the
- plane is trimmed into a random direction, and i cant
- trim it back anymore. this is really driving me mad.
- its much easier to aim when your plane is trimmed
- properly.
- So has anyone a solution for this problem?


Search the texh forum there are some guys fiddling with the cinfig file for this. I have the 45 aswell and feel the same but have yet to find a config that works for me anywhere asclose to origanal Il2. I only got to enjoy it for about a month after 45 perchase then FB came out.

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XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 01:27 PM
I use trim to give a little nose-up attitude when flying the 190 and climbing. When I enter combat it usually at high speeds in the 109 and VERY high speeds in the 190.

On engagement I usually set trim to be in agreement with my chosen combat speed. If I am engaging at around 550Kph I will add a little nose down trim to stabilise gunnery - I don't think this is cheating.

If I am diving I will add a little nose-up trim to aid my pull-out (NOT dial it around until I black-out like some Dogfight Server Asshat! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif ) and overcome some of the compression effects.

I have no problem with trim in FB and I feel it is modelled within realistic limits. Primarily as an energy fighter I have no real need for Bat Turns or stupid looping contests /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Be Sure - trim exploits are for arcade gamers in Wonderwoman no cockpit servers who haven't bothered to learn about the "Possibility" of using their brains to fight.

Let them have their trim - and eat it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

JG5_UnKle

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XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 01:59 PM
Any comments RBJ?

XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 05:52 PM
I trim like a bat out of hell.

Whether turning and burning, or energy fighting, the maximum allowable trim is a must.

I feel sorry for people like JG5_UnKle who energy fight but don't use trim. He will never be half the boom and zoom pilot he could really be, because he will only be able to land 50% of the shots that a true trimmer could on high speed flybys. It's amazing the # of people who don't have a clue about the finer aspects of dogfighting. Then again, it takes alot of research and comprehensive knowledge of the flight controls to be an ace (like me).



JG5_UnKle wrote:
- If I am engaging at
- around 550Kph I will add a little nose down trim to
- stabilise gunnery - I don't think this is cheating.

You use trim??? You must be a cheat!! How dare you use trim for anything other than level flight. You are probably one of those Quake or Counterstike type players. Anything it takes in order to win huh?

W H A T E V E R

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XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 06:18 PM
ROFLMAO - No really, I needed it stiched back on /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I knew it was only a matter of time before he came out and gave us another memorable post. Thankyou RBJ for making a relatively dull monday a little brighter /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

As for the way I use trim....Hmmm - IIRC this way how it was used in combat; to releive the stress of working against the controls at speed, and to aid in pulling out of a dive where stick forces would be higher.

But you know that, I am sure your exhaustive study and online aceness has lead to this and you are just toying with me like the inept n00b I am /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

JG5_UnKle

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XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 06:51 PM
OK, here's some RL trim tips that also work in IL2FB (with those aircraft with WORKABLE balance balls below the turn needle).

Keep the balance ball centered with your rudder trim tab. You don't need a "centering notch" on your trim knob...just include the balance ball in your scan and keep it centered. (Oh! BTW...your bullets will fly true with a "balanced" aircraft! Ever wonder why you're not hitting whats in your crosshairs??? Check your rudder trim.)

You can "feel" the elevator trim when it's out of trim. You will "feel" forces "pulling" you up or forcing you down. Simply trim this force out.

I hardly ever use aileron trim.

I have my IL2FB trim on a hat switch and it works quite well. You must be more patient in IL2FB because trim works 10 times more slowly than real life. So trim the rudder, wait, check the balance ball and adjust as needed!

Balanced is better!!

Gold

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XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 07:00 PM
RGR that goldenwing......

For those of us WITH rudder trim /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

JG5_UnKle

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XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 08:12 PM
I love the denial that some have about trim in this game, like they don't use it like everyone else does. No, not U Buzz./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

It still does what it does at high-speed deflection and with the proper stick setup and riding the edge of that first blackout, it will still give you a decided advantage in that first break after a pass, over someone who doesn't use it.

Just because a pilot knows when to use full trim and when not to, doesn't mean he doesn't know how to fly high, too. Actually, it's the other way around I find./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Wow, soooo much fun wandering around at 3,500m, waiting to pounce on an engaged pilot or two, then scampering off to base and quick-land dem pernts. Anybody can do that in this game. B and Z is a piece of cake when a 109 or 190 will easily out dive an LA. I call them the CTFAF. The "Can't Turn Fight Avoidance Flyers"./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

@UnKle...so many hours spent flying against you over at UBI. You were a trim-turnin' fool in that IL2 and you can fly high and energy fight as well. I think I still hold the edge in victories on the dedicated server, though./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Oh, and the La7 3 x B20 I was waiting for, has been everything I'd hoped./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Only use it for B and Z mostly because the LA5FN and LA7 turn much better and have more ammo for Yak Smackin'./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I'll have to check you nowadays on HL and see what you've been learning./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

_______________________________________
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XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 08:18 PM
He he he - I rarely flew at Ubi and only for a laugh. Nothing serious there and the IL-2 FM was a bad joke in those days /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Dogfight servers are not really my thing.

You will only see me on HL with my squad, and we don't fly the IL-2 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Nor do we participate in DF servers very often.

JG5_UnKle

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XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 08:30 PM
If you are in the area look out for JaRa, MetalG, Emil and myself - we are around most of the time. Full real though I'm afraid - and no, not even the map /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

JG5_UnKle

"Know and use all the capabilities of your airplane. If you don't sooner or later, somebody who does, will kick your ***"


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XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 09:00 PM
You trim for combat and of course it is very true in RL as well. Period. Read all the Mustang stories. In fact as some1 pointed out if the FM in FB is good enough you ought to have the ball centred in order to make a shot worth calling 'full realism killer'.

Dogfight comes first BnZ 2nd. In combat you always fly BnZ if you can. Dogfighting is stupoid but fun. BnZers who learnt only that are not necessarily dogfighters. Dogfighters can certainly be great BnZers OTOH provided they are patient enough!

Btw I'm only an observer at this game as I am awaiting some serious kit to start properly. Otherwise I'm an airattacker (no trim there but we do use landing flaps and gear most often in combat!!).

I pity the guys that fly untrimmed (even for level flight). If you are experienced you may get away with it 98% of the time provided you don't come across an ace. Even the slight initial or otherwise advantage afforded by trimming fwd can be enough to make a high G deflection shot or just the advantage. So it can make a difference...

I you don't trim I'll come in and punish you all.Well I'll punish you anyway but hopefully my kit ll be sorted in time for a good Spit 9 or 14 to available for me...

XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 09:08 PM
Ah, someone should burn this thread. We need an exorcist priest! This is full of heretic members of the Trimming Sect. They have a 30 ft. statue of RBJ made of gold and face hair... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Brrrrr. Linda Blair TrackIR view, combat trimming on sliders... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif This frozes the heart! It's pretty full of demons. The Spanish Inquisitor inside me fights to take control! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

How stupid the aeronautics engineers during WW2. Making this and that, when all they had to do is put two joysticks in the cockpit, so mediocre pilots could make hard trimming combat turns to be RBJ-like aces!

Why bothering about airframe stressing, G-forces or physical limits! Just a little trimming, or even better, a 270 degree rotating elevator, and voil , you're turning within a TIE Fighter!

Believe me, guys, you're mistaken. X-Wing is your game. There you can be pilots with "the strength" within. But, hey, if you just want to have fun -a legitime reason- I think trimming is OK.

As for them that want a simulator, just read the real aircraft manuals or ask real pilots what was the use of trimming and why they couldn't use it the way you do. Physical limits, guys: an elevator and a trim stab put to the limit are in so a steep angle that they just break the air flow through the tail section, losing lift forces in the tail section, and putting you in uncontrolled, serious trouble. THAT'S REALLY THE PORKED PART OF FB FMs. No simulated air flow, just a limited range of very well simulated effects.

Please, I need a torture chamber right now! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

- Dux Corvan -



http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612322300

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XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 09:18 PM
If you want a real simulator play FS2004!

Watch out, though. Trim will make you turn harder there too.

"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 09:25 PM
It's too bad trim can be used to increase turn performance. In real life, it's used to make straight and level flight easier, NOT to increase turn performance. Actually, if you think about the way trim tabs actually work, trimming the nose up will actually ~slightly decrease~ the maximum effect the elevator can have in a turn.

In real life, when you trim the nose up, the trim tabs turn downward. The elevator automatically compensates by rising slightly, and--presto--the nose raises.* So, if you leave the tabs in this position, the entire surface area of the elevator will not be devoted to pitching the nose up when you pull the stick back. The trimmed tabs will exert a slight amount of "negative" lift, and increase parasite drag, which will theoretically decrease turn performance.

So, if turn performance is being significantly improved through the use of trim, then this is a serious flaw with the game. So, since this is a video game, trim away! I guess it will help. It's not realistic, but...whatever.


*Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge, FAA. Section 1-14.

XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 09:46 PM
i set the trim in my joystick wheel i dont need a second joystick
that explanation about the functioning of the trim tabs was really interesting, it means you dont need any force to pull up at high speeds since is the wind that does all the work.definitly the most important functioning of trimming in combat must have been pulling out of high speed dives with the trim,but you cant use the trim anymore in fb.
you can see the elevator trim in the p40 and yak3 and has numbers or a mark on it which means is designed for just one revolution
then can someone explain me why the trim takes 21 second to spin one revolution
and everybody calling it a exploit when is just physics