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PapaFly
03-20-2004, 05:07 AM
Hi everybody!

I think adding 1 or 2 aerobatic planes to this sim would be simply awesome!!!
I mean you can so some aerobatics in FS2k2/FS2k4, but the view sistem there doesnt allow you to freely move your head (except you have TrackIR).
So here are my reasons:

1.The IL2 view system would absolutely support aerobatics.
2.The engine is also suited.
3.We already have contrails (thanks for them http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)
4.Many people will love it
5.Many already do aerobatics (see haut voltige team aso) http://www.haute-voltige.com/virtualHVteam/
6.The problem is you cant fly all maneuvers in a fighter, they're not very well suited for world-class-style aerobatics.
7.It'll look and sound and feel AWESOME!!!
8.It'll make this sim even more popular

Sooooo....what we need is an aerobatic pure-breed machine, like the Extra300L or the Su29/31.
Pleeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaassseeeeeeee!

http://www.aerobatic-lady.com/gallery/gallery_Su-29_2/g15_Su-29_airborne_side.jpg

http://www.aerobatic-lady.com/gallery/index.htm

For those of you who think you can already do good aerobatics with the available planeset, check out the vids on this site (Its Jurgis Kairys riding his Su31 like a bat outta hel):
http://www.jkairys.com/english/index.htm

Happy flying all!

PapaFly
03-20-2004, 05:07 AM
Hi everybody!

I think adding 1 or 2 aerobatic planes to this sim would be simply awesome!!!
I mean you can so some aerobatics in FS2k2/FS2k4, but the view sistem there doesnt allow you to freely move your head (except you have TrackIR).
So here are my reasons:

1.The IL2 view system would absolutely support aerobatics.
2.The engine is also suited.
3.We already have contrails (thanks for them http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)
4.Many people will love it
5.Many already do aerobatics (see haut voltige team aso) http://www.haute-voltige.com/virtualHVteam/
6.The problem is you cant fly all maneuvers in a fighter, they're not very well suited for world-class-style aerobatics.
7.It'll look and sound and feel AWESOME!!!
8.It'll make this sim even more popular

Sooooo....what we need is an aerobatic pure-breed machine, like the Extra300L or the Su29/31.
Pleeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaassseeeeeeee!

http://www.aerobatic-lady.com/gallery/gallery_Su-29_2/g15_Su-29_airborne_side.jpg

http://www.aerobatic-lady.com/gallery/index.htm

For those of you who think you can already do good aerobatics with the available planeset, check out the vids on this site (Its Jurgis Kairys riding his Su31 like a bat outta hel):
http://www.jkairys.com/english/index.htm

Happy flying all!

TX-EcoDragon
03-20-2004, 09:00 AM
Hehehehe. . .

What can I say. . lol . .I guess I agree!

The best would be a separate sim though. . . for the purity of the IL-2 line.

Oleg is the right person for the job though, as this sim has no competition in regard to aerobatics physics. I wonder if he has some extra time? ;-)

We could have all the same players though. . the red army would be flying US Edge 540s and Pitts, Yak 55s and Su 26/31s, the blue would be a threat in the Extra 300. . . of course we would have the older Pitts (perhaps without inverted fuel and oil?) man that would be cool!

How about a little Edge flying: http://www.chamblissaerobatics.com/media/kirby1.wmv

S!
TX-EcoDragon
Black 1
TX Squadron XO
http://www.txsquadron.com

Member-Team Raven
http://www.waynehandley.com

First Slot Pilot Aircraft #4 of the Virtual Haute-Voltige Team
http://www.vhvt.com/

http://www.attitudeaviation.com/

http://www.calaggieflyers.com

http://www.txsquadron.com/uploaded/TX-EcoDragon/ravenvert.jpg

[This message was edited by TX-EcoDragon on Sat March 20 2004 at 08:21 AM.]

ICeSpirit.lt
03-20-2004, 11:54 AM
1. This is a world war II simulator. (simulator is arcade anthonym)
2 You have them! It's La7 and Yak3 (and few more). They have excelent characterystics comparing the extra 300 nevertheless they are made more then half of a century ago!
3. You should fly M$ flight simuliator. It has a lot of "avesome" stuff

lindyman
03-20-2004, 12:31 PM
Not for this sim, it's for a different purpose. It'd take a team like Oleg et.al. to do it, though. I don't think any other sim is anywhere near the fidelity of the physics simulation required for aerobatics. Perhaps a special title with miniature maps, the IL-2 engine, and planes...

Ahhh, the many planes... Extra, Pitts, Steen Skybolt, Zlin, Bellanca, Citabria, Yak, Sukhoi...

I think the Brewster is pretty nice for practicing aerobatics, though. Mass is well centered, and it has huge control surfaces.
_
/Bjorn.

PapaFly
03-21-2004, 03:22 AM
Wow Dragon, looks like i totally underestimated the potential of those EDGE planes....thanks for that vid link.

To IceSpirit.... man you better go check out the vids i linked in.....you can definately NOT fly many of those maneuvers with a La or a Yak, and believe me....I'm a simflyer-crack fore more than 10yrs now....So stop bull****ting me about La's and Yak's. You sound like some noob flying his fancy La or Yak for the first time and getting a hard hard erection. They're good fighters but that's about it, no reason to get excited about their aerobatic potential.
You can do nice maneuvers in them, but just enough for say...sportsman or intermediate category. They look really bad when it comes to flying in the unlimited category.....
You talk about awesome and the MSFS series....the FS2k2 Extra300L was even unable to spin...now you know what that means -> totally useless crap plane.

I'll break it down for you: first of all you need a plane with a totally symmetric airfoil profile. All normal aircraft have an asymmetric profile, which means they are not good at doing inverted maneuvers...inverted loops e.g. have a huuuge radius compared to normal loops.
Suppose you fly an Extra300 straight an level with an AoA of 5degs...then you go inverted, level out and hold your alt...you need the same 5degs AoA. Do the same in a La or Yak...you need much higher AoAs while inverted.
Then these crates must be able to to snap rolls, i.e. when you hit full ruder and do a quick pull OR push on the stick your crate must immediately start rolling - much faster than any aileron roll. Again,symmetry is key, i.e. a pushed snaproll is just the same as a pulled one, its just that the negative g's'll make the crap come up your mouth, lol.

A small extra-sim would be just fine, i'm thinking of something really tiny, like the IL2demo we once had. Small planeset, few maps, same game engine....... Primitive damage model tearing your wings of when you overgeee. This would be really cool cause then we could improve on framerates, and you definately need lotsa frames to roll with 400+ degs/sec.

Has anyone more links to some nice aerobatic vids?

rbstr44
03-21-2004, 07:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TX-EcoDragon:

How about a little Edge flying: http://www.chamblissaerobatics.com/media/kirby1.wmv

S!
TX-EcoDragon
Black 1
TX Squadron XO
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Eco-Dee! That's some incredible footage! How does he do that???!

Hopefully, the di-hedral effects modeling is still better than in original IL-2, roger? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Some day, you will have to explain to us how your aerobatic squad is able to set-up such precision manuevers, and deal with network lag in comms at the same time. I guess your timing has to be even better than in RL.

S!

robster

Displacement through a Slab of Glass
http://sol.sci.uop.edu/~jfalward/refraction/displacementcolorthreebeams.jpg
Entering and exiting rays are displaced
from each other, but parallel.
Refraction of Light (http://sol.sci.uop.edu/~jfalward/refraction/refraction.html)

PapaFly
03-22-2004, 02:31 AM
Has anyone seen "IMAX The magic of flight"?
Some nice footage of the blue angels flying REALLY TIGHT formations....wowowowowow

Future-
03-22-2004, 04:32 AM
I agree mostly with IceSpirit... this is still a WAR simulation. 'nough said.

Besides, there are several planes that are capable of performing well in the hands of a good pilot, especially when you take away the guns and the focus on battle.
Gladiator, Mustang, 190, and more are great racers and good aerobatic planes.

But first and foremost, this is a WAR sim, if one considers how many WAR planes are still on the "yet to come"-list and the community's wish-list of planes, you will notice that there are far more planes waiting to get included that are a lot more important than giving you a "toy-plane" (pure aerobatic/race plane) to do stunts only.

And I doubt that a pure aerobatics/air race game would be a hot seller, unless it's something the size and quality of FB, covering not only WW2 planes, but all racers/ stunt planes from the very beginning up until today.

S!

P.S.: I like your idea somehow, but I think you can understand what I want to say, right?

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://members.tripod.com/tophatssquadron , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

marcus763
03-22-2004, 04:59 AM
Il2 is Awesome! But I must say I too would LOVE to see Oleg do an Aerobatic sim, with Extra's Su-31's etc!!

Dmitri9mm
03-22-2004, 05:40 AM
We've allreeady got THE aerobatics plane: the Gloster Gladiator. It handles exactly like an aerobatics plane, it's allmost spin-proof and can do three or four full loops in a row.
I think it has something to do with the powerplant being somewhat weak combined with low wing loading and huge control surfaces.

p1ngu666
03-22-2004, 07:45 AM
my dad just got msfs2002 2nd hand, and it is abit crap
il2 has WAY more feel. i way prefer il2 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg

WUAF_MJ_Prop
03-22-2004, 08:52 AM
tell you what.........after seeing THAT vid, all the "this plane is uber" threads got blown straight out of the water lol