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View Full Version : P51 useless if it was not for RAF



XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 12:27 AM
The one American fighter plane that was truelly great was built to british specifications and needed a british engine in it to make it first class .Cant they build their own planes ?

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 12:27 AM
The one American fighter plane that was truelly great was built to british specifications and needed a british engine in it to make it first class .Cant they build their own planes ?

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 12:36 AM
Well the P-51 may have got a Pommy engine stuck in it.... but what about the F-4U Corsair? Another great American plane..

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 12:42 AM
we had to show them how to land it on carriers though, hehe.

Damn fine plane though, you gotta say.

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She turned me into a newt, but I got better.

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 12:44 AM
Ahem! The P-51 was allready on the drawing boards when the Brits needed something badly. So we sold them on the idea of the P-51 and made the changes they required so their boys would know how to work on them right away. It was better to have engines and other components that they recognized than to train them for our stuff. They just couldn't spare that kind of time. Some of them were even fitted with a slight bubble canopy like the Spitfire had.

Beware of the Flying Tigers /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 12:49 AM
Hmm, a little ***** envy here mates. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 12:59 AM
Don't feed teh trolls!

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XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 01:00 AM
Thank you for your patronage. What about those garbage haulers the RAF flys nowadays eh? Whither the great lineage of exclusively homegrown efforts?

A list of the incomparable American planes of WW2 that required no "spiffing up" by the Brits:

P-47
P-38
F4U
F6F
Dauntless
PBY
B-17 and B-29
C-47/DC-3 (one of the planes that definitely won the war and got off the Cold War to a good start during the Berlin Airlift.)

Don't get me wrong, the Brits made some fine airplanes too, (Spit, Mosquito, Lancaster) but you had to buy or "borrow" many of ours as well, either lock, stock, and barrel, or via a radio.

johnnyJohnson_ wrote:
-
- The one American fighter plane that was truelly
- great was built to british specifications and needed
- a british engine in it to make it first class .Cant
- they build their own planes ?
-
-

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 01:08 AM
Hmmmm...quite a snide remark. You should be grateful that your little island is free today because of the P-51, and the AMERICAN MEN WHO DIED IN THEM. Why did your little islands government stop making great planes Johnny? Isn't France making some for you now? We didn't stop at making great aircraft....I'll take an F-22 or JSF over anything you throw at us. We'll smoke your butt...PERIOD! I'm sick of ingrates!

mucker

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 01:10 AM
I agree with the above

Boosher-PBNA
----------------
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XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 01:14 AM
but didnt the yanks buy the BRITISH harier off of us?lol, some things never change

<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_hawkeye.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 01:17 AM
mucker wrote:
- Hmmmm...quite a snide remark. You should be grateful
- that your little island is free today because of the
- P-51, and the AMERICAN MEN WHO DIED IN THEM. Why did
- your little islands government stop making great
- planes Johnny? Isn't France making some for you now?
- We didn't stop at making great aircraft....I'll take
- an F-22 or JSF over anything you throw at us. We'll
- smoke your butt...PERIOD! I'm sick of ingrates!
-
- mucker
-
-


When the Brits get the EuroFighter than we will show you....

Hot Space


An Antelope is not just for Christmas - It's for putting in Sandwich's as well!!!

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 01:17 AM
oh, gawd!

now it's getting embarrassing.

children?

Children!

nappy time!


Falcon

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_euro_us_02.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 01:21 AM
Troll post.

Regards,

SkyChimp

http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/SkyChimp2.jpg

The_Blue_Devil
08-20-2003, 01:22 AM
johnnyJohnson_ wrote:
-
- The one American fighter plane that was truelly
- great was built to british specifications and needed
- a british engine in it to make it first class .Cant
- they build their own planes ?
-
-

Be glad we bailed you guys out in WWI and WWII... no in all seriousness the Stang was indeed in the works before British requests for a sleek fighter with high performance. The Merlin engine came after pilots realized that at high altitude the Mustang lost more power than it actually gained. US engineering and British ingeniuty helped to create one of the best fighters ever.

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</center>
<center>[b]"Pilots who liked to dogifght could do it their own way. I avoided it. I always attacked at full speed and I evaded a bounce in the same manner. When you were hit from above and behind, and your attacker held his fire until he was really close, you knew you were in with someone who had a great deal of experience.-Erich Hartmann"[b]</center>


<center> <img src=http://www.angelfire.lycos.com/art2/devilart/MySigII.gif> </center>

<center> http://www.361stvfg.com </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 01:22 AM
Hey gonzo...take a look at the Royal Air Force web site. Your Air Force carries alot of true blue American made missle technology.


F-22 vs. Eurofighter....see your pilots in a parachute hotspace...

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 01:23 AM
Falcon_41 wrote:
- oh, gawd!
-
- now it's getting embarrassing.
-
- children?
-
- Children!
-
- nappy time!
-
-
- Falcon
-
<img
- src="http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_e
- uro_us_02.gif">
-


Sorry Mum/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Hot Space


An Antelope is not just for Christmas - It's for putting in Sandwich's as well!!!

The_Blue_Devil
08-20-2003, 01:24 AM
gonzothe1 wrote:
- but didnt the yanks buy the BRITISH harier off of
- us?lol, some things never change
-

Yea LOL we bought it and Improved it..Harrier 2 baby..made to the specs of the men and women in the US Marine Corps.

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</center>
<center>[b]"Pilots who liked to dogifght could do it their own way. I avoided it. I always attacked at full speed and I evaded a bounce in the same manner. When you were hit from above and behind, and your attacker held his fire until he was really close, you knew you were in with someone who had a great deal of experience.-Erich Hartmann"[b]</center>


<center> <img src=http://www.angelfire.lycos.com/art2/devilart/MySigII.gif> </center>

<center> http://www.361stvfg.com </center>

The_Blue_Devil
08-20-2003, 01:28 AM
hotspace wrote:
-
- When the Brits get the EuroFighter than we will show
- you....
-
- Hot Space
-
-
Umm I agree..the F-22 is the badest bird in the skies. Chances are the EuroFighter won't see the Raptor that shoots it down, be it on radar or visible range.... If it actually does come to a "Dogfight" the raptor is billed as the most manuverable fighter on the planet shy of a Flanker, on top of the "Super Cruise" ability, i.e. it can out fly and out run anything else in the sky.

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</center>
<center>[b]"Pilots who liked to dogifght could do it their own way. I avoided it. I always attacked at full speed and I evaded a bounce in the same manner. When you were hit from above and behind, and your attacker held his fire until he was really close, you knew you were in with someone who had a great deal of experience.-Erich Hartmann"[b]</center>


<center> <img src=http://www.angelfire.lycos.com/art2/devilart/MySigII.gif> </center>

<center> http://www.361stvfg.com </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 01:30 AM
Ok, I'll you win that one.

If only we had a Sopwith Camel we might have a fair chance/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Hot Space

An Antelope is not just for Christmas - It's for putting in Sandwich's as well!!!

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 01:37 AM
not to mention we have ...wait for it...........AIR WOLF lol

"life moves preaty fast if you dont stop and look around once and a while you could miss it" {Ferris Bueller}

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 01:39 AM
You've got a thing about Airwolf, haven't you?

Hot Space

An Antelope is not just for Christmas - It's for putting in Sandwich's as well!!!

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 01:40 AM
Hmm... All told, the best thing about the p-51 was its gunsight.

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 01:43 AM
GreySaber14 wrote:
- Hmm... All told, the best thing about the p-51 was
- its gunsight.
-
-

And that was based on a British gunsight, was it not?



http://www.stenbergaa.com/stenberg/crandall-stormclouds2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 01:44 AM
....and we have the newly revamped Chitty-Chitty Bang-Bang with AMRAAM's now ...SO THERE!!!!

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 01:46 AM
we may of needed buy stuff off u but if we didnt resist hitler and his forces to the very end germany would of sighed a peace deal with us and u yanks wouldnt of had anywere to lauch your aircraft and remeber we fought for 3 years before u got off ur fat arses to help ur ally properly not just breaking laws of nuetrality the merlin is what made the p-51 the plane it was without it the plane would of been useless for what it was used for

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 01:47 AM
Guiness Beer. Thanks, Brits.

Regards,

SkyChimp

http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/SkyChimp2.jpg

eskimo-FHmod
08-20-2003, 01:48 AM
mucker wrote:
- Hmmmm...quite a snide remark. You should be grateful
- that your little island is free today because of the
- P-51, and the AMERICAN MEN WHO DIED IN THEM. Why did
- your little islands government stop making great
- planes Johnny? Isn't France making some for you now?
- We didn't stop at making great aircraft....I'll take
- an F-22 or JSF over anything you throw at us. We'll
- smoke your butt...PERIOD! I'm sick of ingrates!
-
- mucker
-
-

there we go again.
america uber alles.
and least we forget. america won the war, screw all those dead russians, screw all those dead brits or australians because america won the war. their dead are the only ones that matter and they will rub it in till the world is no more.

<centerhttp://homepages.ihug.com.au/~peabody/ihugSig.jpg (http://www.fhmod.com)

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 01:52 AM
eskimo-FHmod wrote:

- there we go again.
- america uber alles.
- and least we forget. america won the war, screw all
- those dead russians, screw all those dead brits or
- australians because america won the war. their dead
- are the only ones that matter and they will rub it
- in till the world is no more.


You make a good victim.

Regards,

SkyChimp

http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/SkyChimp2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 01:54 AM
Peace? What are you smoking Fiestapower? If we never jumped into WW2, you would have never held out. All of the resources we and the Russians destoyed would have poured over you and your little soggy rock would be just a bit different today, agree?



Message Edited on 08/20/0312:59AM by mucker

eskimo-FHmod
08-20-2003, 01:55 AM
i should add that i am easyly upset and even easier offended. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

<centerhttp://homepages.ihug.com.au/~peabody/ihugSig.jpg (http://www.fhmod.com)

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 02:05 AM
Okay ...

that's it,

I'm about to puke.

Could we please raise the intellectual level of this thread above remedial Kindergarten?

or maybe we should just shoot it and get it out of its' misery?


Falcon

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_euro_us_02.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 02:12 AM
What is not intellectual about this Falcon? Are you that much above us? If you were, I doubt you would have even replied to this thread....

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 02:12 AM
wow, the pilots lounge is open again?



And comon, no one has even mentioned the french


Message Edited on 08/19/0308:12PM by Supr

The_Blue_Devil
08-20-2003, 02:13 AM
eskimo-FHmod wrote:
- there we go again.
- america uber alles.
- and least we forget. america won the war, screw all
- those dead russians, screw all those dead brits or
- australians because america won the war. their dead
- are the only ones that matter and they will rub it
- in till the world is no more.

.....

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</center>
<center>[b]"Pilots who liked to dogifght could do it their own way. I avoided it. I always attacked at full speed and I evaded a bounce in the same manner. When you were hit from above and behind, and your attacker held his fire until he was really close, you knew you were in with someone who had a great deal of experience.-Erich Hartmann"[b]</center>


<center> <img src=http://www.angelfire.lycos.com/art2/devilart/MySigII.gif> </center>

<center> http://www.361stvfg.com </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 02:13 AM
You yanks can't stand being anything other the #1 can you? One little post like this and you all come running like crasy /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif can't help finding this quite amusing.
But let's face it. Uk would have been toast if not for the US.

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 02:15 AM
dang french. lol j/k.

"life moves preaty fast if you dont stop and look around once and a while you could miss it" {Ferris Bueller}

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 02:16 AM
Eskimo is not PC, the word is Inuit./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

SkyChimp wrote:
-
- eskimo-FHmod wrote:
-
-- there we go again.
-- america uber alles.
-- and least we forget. america won the war, screw all
-- those dead russians, screw all those dead brits or
-- australians because america won the war. their dead
-- are the only ones that matter and they will rub it
-- in till the world is no more.
-
-
- You make a good victim.
-


http://www.stenbergaa.com/stenberg/crandall-stormclouds2.jpg

The_Blue_Devil
08-20-2003, 02:17 AM
CatSlave wrote:
- You yanks can't stand being anything other the #1
- can you? One little post like this and you all come
- running like crasy can't help finding this quite
- amusing.
- But let's face it. Uk would have been toast if not
- for the US.

Well this is how we stay number 1..by not taking crap from anyone.

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</center>
<center>[b]"Pilots who liked to dogifght could do it their own way. I avoided it. I always attacked at full speed and I evaded a bounce in the same manner. When you were hit from above and behind, and your attacker held his fire until he was really close, you knew you were in with someone who had a great deal of experience.-Erich Hartmann"[b]</center>


<center> <img src=http://www.angelfire.lycos.com/art2/devilart/MySigII.gif> </center>

<center> http://www.361stvfg.com </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 02:21 AM
So where is Saddam then?

Hot Space

An Antelope is not just for Christmas - It's for putting in Sandwich's as well!!!

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 02:25 AM
I could care less about being #1. To live in a world without death, destruction, one-upsmanship, and weapons of war is what my dream is (crazy as it may sound).......

mucker

(goodnight and peace to you all!!!!!)

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 02:26 AM
The_Blue_Devil wrote:
-
- CatSlave wrote:
-- You yanks can't stand being anything other the #1
-- can you? One little post like this and you all come
-- running like crasy can't help finding this quite
-- amusing.
-- But let's face it. Uk would have been toast if not
-- for the US.
-
- Well this is how we stay number 1..by not taking
- crap from anyone.
-
Well the day will come, when... One day... eh... well nevrmind http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 02:29 AM
Cat got your tongue Cat? Spit it out....

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 02:31 AM
SkyChimp wrote:
- Guiness Beer. Thanks, Brits.
-
- Regards,
-
- SkyChimp
-


y'know the Irish may not be too happy you calling them Brits.

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 02:33 AM
*ERROR: CANNOT INSERT FUNNY TROLLING IMAGE HERE. DATABASE FAILURE. TOTAL SYSTEM FAILURE. WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE.*

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 02:38 AM
That's not quite true.. the P-51 was just fine at low alt..
The british engine that was put in had a better blower and super charger that made the plane better at High alt.


So to say that it was a poor aircraft does not do it justice to come out saying it was bad..

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 03:48 AM
IBTL, bored to tears ,please make it stop ,dont feed the trolls, etc etc......

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/p47-22.jpg 47|FC=

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 04:01 AM
who really cares? there's better things to do and think about than who really won the war. get over it.

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 04:07 AM
Somebody has to be number one. It might as well be us../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

It must be tough being number....?? What are the Brits anyway? Five? Six? Who cares.

25th_Buzz
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 04:12 AM
OJ79 wrote:
- SkyChimp wrote:
-- Guiness Beer. Thanks, Brits.
--
-- Regards,
--
-- SkyChimp
--
-
-
- y'know the Irish may not be too happy you calling
- them Brits.


Sorry, I thunked they was all the same.

BTW, I work with an Irishman. He says the best thing to come out of England was the road to Ireland. Is there a road to Ireland?

I love thay guy /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Regards,

SkyChimp

http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/SkyChimp2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 04:28 AM
What a load of rubbish this is, it took the combined efforts of many countries to end both WW1 and WW2, and now many American and British weapons would not be nearly as effective without the combined technology of both countries.
As far as the F22 goes aren't Britain and the US combining to develop it, as it's VTOL ability uses much British technology and the Vtol version will have Rolls Royce engines.

The US may be #1 in some areas but for quality of life Australia is miles ahead both Britain and the US.

JG4_Tiger

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 04:35 AM
Quality of life in Australia?? Isn't that where everything costs three times what it does in the US?

25th_Buzz
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 04:35 AM
SkyChimp wrote:

- Guiness Beer. Thanks, Brits.


Don't forget "Riverdance", something else we can all be thankful to the Brits for.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


<center><img src= "http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW4/FW190-A0-52.jpg" height=215 width=365>

<center>"We are now in a position of inferiority...There is no doubt in my mind, nor in the minds of my fighter pilots, that the FW190 is the best all-round fighter in the world today."

Sholto Douglas, 17 July 1942

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 04:37 AM
I didnt know the F-22 was Vtol. I think maybe your thinking about the thrusts vectoring technology installed on the bird. Oh, and about quality of life...I think Switzerland takes that title http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 04:40 AM
Mucker wrote:

"You should be grateful that your little island is free today because of the P-51"

Well I seriously don't consider Britain as a free nation.
It really is not very free at all. Never was, that's why we revolted against the crown in the revolutionary war. Their government is very authoritarian and socialist. What they call a "nanny state", where only the government know what's best and the people are only subjects, led about by the hand like they are all children. Even protecting yourself is criminalised over there. If you use any type of self-defense to protect yourself, you get a heftier prison wrap than the criminal who assailed you. You are, in fact a criminal for the very act of trying to safe your life or the life of loved ones. Some free country!!! Glad I'm American. But there are a lot of people in the U.S that would have us under the same enslavement as them, so we must be vigilant.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin - 1755

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 04:49 AM
Mortoma has the right of it. Hear him! Hear him!

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 04:49 AM
F-22's Thrusr vectoring is the hottest gig in town and it's burning to 180 Degree's in 18 sec's full thrust.


OUCH =))))

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 05:11 AM
Buzz,

Not really true although some things are cheaper in the US, like the value of life /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif j/k well maybe not a total joke no Australian hospital would turn a person away because they can't afford treatment.

Given a choice of Switzerland US and Aust and Ive been to all three countries my vote is still with Australia, oh Im an English born Australian resident and Britain wasnt even in the running /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

JG4_Tiger

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 05:39 AM
PUHHHHLEASE!!! The Pony was a contender from day one. Put the pencil back in your pants.
johnnyJohnson_ wrote:
-
- The one American fighter plane that was truelly
- great was built to british specifications and needed
- a british engine in it to make it first class .Cant
- they build their own planes ?

eskimo-FHmod wrote:
- there we go again.
- america uber alles.
- and least we forget. america won the war, screw all
- those dead russians, screw all those dead brits or
- australians because america won the war. their dead
- are the only ones that matter and they will rub it
- in till the world is no more.

Nope......we dont rub it in and we certainly dont discount the contributions of ALL the allied forces in the greatest conflict in human history...but we wont let somebody pi$$ on us and call it rain either.

Grey Sabre14 wrote:
Hmm... All told, the best thing about the p-51 was its gunsight.

Riiiight..... tell that to all the pilots who fell under it's guns and lived to talk about it..if you can find them....

hotspace wrote:
So where is Saddam then?

Who knows....but he isnt in power is he...? And his most deadly biological weapons of mass destruction.......Uday & Qusay are history.

CatSlave wrote:
Well the day will come, when... One day... eh... well nevrmind

Yes I do believe the day will come......../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

mortoma wrote:
Well I seriously don't consider Britain as a free nation.
It really is not very free at all. Never was, that's why we revolted against the crown in the revolutionary war. Their government is very authoritarian and socialist. What they call a "nanny state", where only the government know what's best and the people are only subjects, led about by the hand like they are all children. Even protecting yourself is criminalised over there. If you use any type of self-defense to protect yourself, you get a heftier prison wrap than the criminal who assailed you. You are, in fact a criminal for the very act of trying to safe your life or the life of loved ones. Some free country!!! Glad I'm American. But there are a lot of people in the U.S that would have us under the same enslavement as them, so we must be vigilant.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin - 1755

The best thing I have read in this thread...... none of us are free and in the next few years that will become more apparent..........people get ready...there's a train a comin......... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif





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Message Edited on 08/20/0301:22AM by Bearcat99

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 06:20 AM
No, you're wrong. Had the communists rolled Hitler all the way to Calais and the UK become a commie puppet state, it would be pretty much like it is today, except the Guardian would be the official newspaper of Airstrip One.
mucker wrote:
- Peace? What are you smoking Fiestapower? If we never
- jumped into WW2, you would have never held out. All
- of the resources we and the Russians destoyed would
- have poured over you and your little soggy rock
- would be just a bit different today, agree?
-
-
-
- Message Edited on 08/20/03 12:59AM by mucker

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 06:28 AM
The Merlin in the Mustang was built in USA!!, by Packard, hence the name Rolls Royce/Packard Merlin made in America, and further more, the Damn Brits came to America looking for an American designed and built plane armed to British specifications.
They were actually going to purchase the P40, when North American Aviation was propositioned to build the P40 they decided a better machine could be built, and it was designed and built in the same time it would of took to produce the P40's the Brits were after(120 days). The NA-73X was wheeled out Aug 30 1940, renamed the Mustang. The Brits ordered 620 of these machines designed and built by America!! The second Mustang built, serial AG346 was shipped Oct 1941 to Liverpool.

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 07:19 AM
I'm not THAT naive Mortoma, I have a good understanding of the meaning of freedom in the US. I see privileges and rights revoked almost on a daily basis in this country, and getting worse. The obvious reason....population. More people, less freedom...the Ben Franklin quote you added pertained to a much different era (very sparse population)....a cool statement for sure but a pipe dream in todays world. He or the founding fathers could never have imagined what the US has become today. Even so, I'd take what liberties I do enjoy right now in this country over any alternative. I'm pretty certain that post-WW2 UK is a better off place without Hitler' style of governing. Maybe all these naysaying Brits (brats) should have a chat with some of the remaining war vetrans or visit a military cemetary to get a real sense of the cost of freedom. I am positive all of those who went through that hell would give anything to live in the limited freedom the UK enjoys today.....

mucker



Message Edited on 08/20/0308:22AM by mucker

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 07:57 AM
I've edited out the original contents of this post. It wasn't particularly bad but I'm embarrassed I gave in to temptation and posted to this ridiculous thread.

Must...bite...tongue...

---------------------------
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

Yes, I'm talking to you.

Message Edited on 08/20/0304:33PM by MildBill

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 08:03 AM
Who said the mustang was an American plane in the first place? It was designed by a German. I guess the only thing American about it was the pilot, parachute, and the paint.


(Sorry, I just couldn't help myself. Seemed we needed some fresh bait on the hook http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif)


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XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 08:22 AM
Lol. This is almost as funny as the "Germans invented everything with wings" threads.

The RAN NURFED the P-38.

Original P-38 had two 1300HP engines, 1 37MM and 4 .50 cal. The RAF cranged it to 1000HP engines and two .30 cal and two .50 cal. Then they complained of low HP, and no hitting power. Lol. What a joke. They refused the rest of the P-38's so the US took then back and made them into a mans machine. The US version's were legendary for there firepower and horsepower.

Gib

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XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 09:18 AM
I am from UK and think some of the posts in this thread are ridiculous and highly embarrasing dont some people have any respect, the p51 was a joint effort between US and UK also if it wasn't for the men, machinery and supplys from US we couldn't have held the germans off indefinately. In the war our grandfathers fought side by side and we dishonour them with these sorry *** conversations and look at current times the US is our only true allie in the world as was then do you think France is an allie huh! Don't count on it they look after themselves they hate UK and US and dump on us when they get chance.
In the war my grandfather was on the Abdiel a minelayer packed full of 1st airborne us and 1 para uk troops on its way from africa to torronto italy the ship struck a mine and then sank with huge losses luckily he was rescued along with others unfortunately many of his freinds some which were american died on that ship.
I wish more people in this country would realise the contribution the yanks made for us back then but i suppose by now half our population are anti american illegal imigrants from the east for a start we sould be concentrating on gettin them OUT right now.

someone please lock this thread so we dont haveto endure this embarrasment.......

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 09:24 AM
damn posted twice.....




Message Edited on 08/20/0308:27AM by johno__UK

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 09:32 AM
well heres a fun thread its my turn,

US didnt bail the brits out they were on the offensive late 1942 the BoB was over the russian frount was going badly for the germans, after germany opened the russian frount they couldnt really do musch to britian at all.

And to be really nasty where was the US in 1939 when france and britan were in great need of help and looked to be lost.

http://lamppost.mine.nu/ahclan/files/sigs/spitwhiners1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 09:34 AM
So far I have seen only one native northern American on these forums (maybe more, but they don't show it), the rest are immigrants - mostly from the east.

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 09:39 AM
Good post HellToupee. We can't underplay the help the Americans gave to the war effort, without them we may very well be speaking German. The fact remains though that they turned up two years late, and they had to lose a large chunk of the pacific fleet to join in.

If this was a conversation face to face, we would probably all be laughing and joking and taking the pi$$ out of each other's countries - on a forum board you would think we all despised each other.

Let's all just get along.

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 09:52 AM
mortoma wrote:

- Even protecting
- yourself is criminalised over there. If you use any
- type of self-defense to protect yourself, you get a
- heftier prison wrap than the criminal who assailed
- you. You are, in fact a criminal for the very act of
- trying to safe your life or the life of loved ones.

Yeah, man!
Keep shooting each other in USA like you do now, and we'll get rid of you in few years!!!
Poor guys. You think you're the most free, happy and right country of the world just because you're brain-washed all your life by your medias and don't see what's real life in other countries (just take Canada, it's not so far away; and I'm not mentioning let's say Austria or Italy because I'm not sure most Americans can locate them).
USA number 1? Number 1 of what?
#1 in racism and segregation
#1 in aggressive foreign politics
#1 in polluting the world
#1 in resource exploitation
#1 in weapon production
#1 in interfering with other countries' politics
... the list is long and I'm getting bored

- Their government is very
- authoritarian and socialist. What they call a "nanny
- state", where only the government know what's best
- and the people are only subjects, led about by the
- hand like they are all children.

Just think American's government think that the best for its citizen is to go to war all over the world just to keep you eating burgers and have your 8 cylinders car going....

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 10:34 AM
mortoma wrote:
- Well I seriously don't consider Britain as a free
- nation.
- It really is not very free at all. Never was, that's
- why we revolted against the crown in the
- revolutionary war. Their government is very
- authoritarian and socialist. What they call a "nanny
- state", where only the government know what's best
- and the people are only subjects, led about by the
- hand like they are all children. Even protecting
- yourself is criminalised over there. If you use any
- type of self-defense to protect yourself, you get a
- heftier prison wrap than the criminal who assailed
- you. You are, in fact a criminal for the very act of
- trying to safe your life or the life of loved ones.
- Some free country!!! Glad I'm American. But there
- are a lot of people in the U.S that would have us
- under the same enslavement as them, so we must be
- vigilant.
-

The only thing interresting in this post is that it shows that brainwashing has still some future in the XXIth century.

As for Britain not being a free nation : they have a government (BTW, isn't it funny : some "socialists" which always agree with all the rightist governments around the world, particularly in Europe and the US) which was elected by the majority of the britons (yes, I know for some this can be strange but more than half of them went to vote) who decided this was the way they wanted their country to be governed, and if the electers don't like the way it behaves it will lose the next elections.

But surely the president of a "free nation" which had less than half of the votes (whoever won in Florida, Gore had more votes over the whole country), while less than half of the people went to vote, and who get some votes by trading them against cigarettes (true, it happened in Florida, and I think in a few other states), must be more legitimate (how many votes did he get, 20 percents ?).

A U.S. citizen is 40 times (40 !) more likely to be murdered than a briton or a french, I'm sure that is because they don't allow people to defend themselves or to get as many weapons as they want, but President Bush has another explanation when asked about weapons control, he said the level of violence in the US, compared to other countries, was because of cultural differences (did he mean the US citizens were less civilized people who don't know how to solve their problems with anything but a gun ? I don't know but I wouldn't like my political leaders to insult me like that, and, in my opinion, most americans are not more stupid nor more violent than us in Europe, and they deserve better than that.).

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 10:54 AM
muahahahahahahaaaa /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



---------------------------------------



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under 30k?

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 10:55 AM
- But surely the president of a "free nation" which
- had less than half of the votes (whoever won in
- Florida, Gore had more votes over the whole
- country),

You scored a good point, nicli !!

Anyway, going back to North American P-51 "Mustang".

From WWII Archive:
One of the small number of aircraft to be conceived, developed, produced and put into wide-scale use all within the six years of the war, the Mustang had its origins in April 1940, when the British Purchasing Commission negotiated with North American Aviation to design and build an advanced fighter for the RAF. This had to meet British specifications and, because of the serious situation in Europe, with German forces already in Denmark and Norway and likely to move towards western Europe at any moment, it was stipulated that a prototype must be completed within 120 days.

This was not quite so wishful as one might think, for North American had already drawn up the outline of a new fighter based on information from air combat in Europe, and the company's design team, headed by Raymond Rice and Edgar Schmued, began immediately to shape the tentative design to fit the British specification. Designated NA-73X by North American, the airframe was completed within 117 days, but the 1,100 hp (820 kW) Allison V-1710-39 engine which was to power it was behind schedule, and it was not until 26 October 1940 that the prototype flew for the first time.

Engineers have for countless years made the comment 'if it looks right, it is right'. This was certainly true of the NA-73X, which at first glance registered as a superb example of aircraft design, and which completed quite rapidly a remarkably trouble-free test programme. On 1 May 1941, just over seven months after the prototype's maiden flight, the first production example was flown. The second production aircraft was despatched to Britain for evaluation by the RAF, arriving during November 1941, and was soon followed by a steady flow from the initial contract for 320 NA-73s placed by the British Purchasing Commission before the prototype's first flight.

No time was wasted by the RAF in making its evaluation of the new fighter, given the designation Mustang Mk I. It needed no sophisticated equipment to measure the capability of this aircraft; any experienced pilot could determine after only a few minutes in the air that it was fast and highly manoeuvrable at low levels, far superior to any other US fighter then extant. The limitations came at higher altitudes, for the power output of the Allison engine fell off rapidly as it climbed, which meant that the Mustang I in that particular form was unsuited for combat operation in Europe.

Etc etc...

...the Mustang story comes the transition to fulfilment of its design potential, initiated in 1942 soon after the first Mustang Is were received in Britain. In order to provide the all-important performance at high altitude, which was needed for the combat fighter role, it was decided to make experimental installations of Rolls-Royce Merlin 61 and 65 engines in Mustang airframes, and four of the Mk Is were supplied to Rolls-Royce at Hucknall for this purpose. Within six weeks the modifications had been completed and the first tests made, demonstrating such improved performance that the results were communicated immediately to North American. They, following the same lines, installed the 1,430-hp (1 066 kW) US-built Packard Merlin V-1650-3 into two P-51 airframes, these duly becoming the XP-78/XP-51Bs mentioned above. It is worth highlighting here that the Allison V-1710 engine installed in the early P-51s was subject to a rapid loss in power after climbing above a height of about 12,000 ft (3660 m); the Packard Merlin V-1650-3 installed in the XP-51B prototypes, and which had a two-speed two-stage supercharger with intercooler, was rated at 1,400 hp (1044 kW) for take-off, and developed 1,450 hp (1081 kW) at 19,800 ft (6035 m).

Conclusion: if it weren't for the British, Mustang was just a P-40 with no sharkmouth!
That's all, folks!

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 11:11 AM
apart from a few sensible posts this is just another nationalistic *****ing fest. Locking.

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