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View Full Version : Do you want a new modern day protagonist?



Ziiimmie
11-28-2016, 03:32 AM
Modern day is an important part of Assassins Creed for me and i wanted to ask the community on whether or not they to would be happy to see modern day given the proper treatment it deserves (in the games) with a present protagonist and a strong narrative.

Desmond wasn't well received which i feel caused the downfall of Modern Day in the first place, however there are an abundance of awesome modern day assassins that can easily become the main protagonist in the games, and be more well received.

I understand Ubisoft would like to stretch the games out as far as possible which is awesome but that can easily be done whilst properly serving the modern day in my opinion especially given the fact we are on the new generation of consoles i feel developers are given more flexibility in making the modern day completely gone for those who don't care for it whilst simultaneously having it present for long-time fans such as myself.

a simple menu prompt where i as the player can leave the animus whenever i feel to explore the modern day story on my own terms (something like Brotherhood but a bit more involved with optional side missions like the ones in AC3)

i understand that this opinion has probably been expressed on these forums many times but i feel like i should also add my 2 cents to the mix although i adore and love the historical narratives of Assassins Creed Modern day has always captivated and interested me as a fan and i'd like to see it done justice as it truly is a wonderful story.

http://i.imgur.com/77NQNqk.png

results from assassins creed wikia

Galactus123
11-28-2016, 09:15 AM
Yes. I basically stopped playing the series after AC:III. I tried playing Black Flag and Unity but I got bored. I liked Desmond and the modern-day storyline. It was awesome in AC:III.

Sorrosyss
11-28-2016, 02:00 PM
Whilst I fully agree with you and love the Modern Day the same, these polls have been around and repeated several times in the past few years. They inevitably end up demanding the same as the AC wiki result.

There was a collective feedback thread after Syndicate and it came up a lot. The trouble is there are issues preventing it's full return (new players, haters, bloated lore), and even if they are worked around its going to be awhile before we see the next game. In the meantime, the Modern Day has been pushed to the tertiary media (comics, novels) and by all accounts is likely to stay there for awhile. Whilst the next game is supposed to be a reinvention, it may not necessarily lead to more Modern Day - and given their comments on making the narrative less scripted, it would sadly be an obvious casualty of any such cuts.

RinoTheBouncer
11-28-2016, 04:02 PM
In all seriousness, I'd do anything for a new playable modern day protagonist in 3rd person, and proper modern day missions and serious focus on the over arching narrative.

Lysette88
11-28-2016, 04:06 PM
I seem to be alone with my opinion so far - but I found the present day part of the game always as an unwanted distraction which pulled me out of the immersion. It is kind of the link between memories though and for stories, where one jumps back and forth in time it is somewhat required, but I think it should be kept to an absolute minimum. I never really liked this part of AC games.

In a way this "you have to access the memories in historical order" was more an excuse for the restrictions of the gaming platforms limitations at it's time. It was not really possible to have huge cities all at once in the game, this was performance heavy stuff and so this made sense in the older games, to segment it into certain strains of memory. This is now less of a problem and so we see a decline in this binding story content, because it is not really necessary anymore. so the AC world goes more into open world than the narrative driven linear storytelling. I guess this is why Ubisoft wants to change the narrative focus, to a more hyper-linked way to approach the game - I compare it to hypertext in comparison to a normal book. The old AC games are more like a novel in a book, whereas the new ones become more of a hypertext structure which tells the story in a different way.

This is not an unproblematic transition though, because it puts more hassle on the player to put together the bits and pieces and construct the story by himself. Hyper-linked events have a lot of freedom, when to approach which content, but it is more in the responsiblity of the player then, to put this all together into the actual story. We will see how successful this will be - it was done in other successful games before, so it could work, the question is just if the typical AC game fan will like it, because it is so different to how it was done before.

LoyalACFan
11-28-2016, 07:48 PM
Well... yes and no. I'd honestly be fine with them dropping MD entirely, since it's become such a tangled mess of canon that doesn't seem to be going anywhere, but if they do decide to continue on with it, I think we do desperately need a new protagonist to carry it. This whole "play as yourself" thing has never been compelling, and hanging the whole Juno plot on the backs of the comic relief characters from AC2 was a disaster waiting to happen.

Farhankhosravi
11-28-2016, 08:04 PM
Yes!!! Modern days are very very important!!! We need a play-able modern day on game... With a third party player (such as Desmond..:( ) and Mysterious and exciting and full content space... Look that Ac 1&2&3... But not black flag! Unity and syndicate was worst possible!!! They haven't any present days! Only movie!!?!!
Please create present day such as AC 1,2 and 3. With great missions and great player (such as Desmond, you can use Desmond's child or his father and etc)
I waiting for Best experience from next Assassins creed:rolleyes:
Sincerely

cawatrooper9
11-28-2016, 08:20 PM
Tricky question. I want revamped MD and a good protagonist, but not necessarily something "new" . We don't need to completely revamp the series every time something doesn't work out.

Give us Galina, or Sean. Even Rebecca, William, or Desmond's kid. We don't need to completely reinvent the wheel here.

Elder-Kalakta
11-29-2016, 07:03 AM
I'd love to see another Modern Day protagonist that you can play as in third person. So a big fat "yes" from me.

Galactus123
11-29-2016, 07:54 AM
They shouldn't have gotten rid of Desmond in the first place. I liked him and never understood the hate.

Lysette88
11-29-2016, 08:54 AM
I guess we will have to wait for the AC movie and see, how they did the story there. It looks much like that there is a MD story to it, which is not just a side track. If Ubisoft wants to attract new people to the franchise, which did not play any AC game before, it will have to be not too far away from how it is portrait in the movie or people will be confused and eventually not stay with the franchise.

This movie will basically define the expectations new players will have and if those are not matched in the first game, they buy after the movie, the whole purpose of the movie might fall short.

RinoTheBouncer
11-29-2016, 12:03 PM
To be quite honest, the only thing that would make people take the franchise and its story seriously again, isn't some gameplay mechanics, co-op, online, multiple story outcomes and consequences, famous settings and figures, graphics, numbers of people on the streets, vehicles or the size of the world, but a brand new modern day protagonist in 3rd person. A character who becomes the spider that connects to various points of his web which is the plot as he progresses forward.

SixKeys
11-29-2016, 09:52 PM
To be quite honest, the only thing that would make people take the franchise and its story seriously again, isn't some gameplay mechanics, co-op, online, multiple story outcomes and consequences, famous settings and figures, graphics, numbers of people on the streets, vehicles or the size of the world, but a brand new modern day protagonist in 3rd person. A character who becomes the spider that connects to various points of his web which is the plot as he progresses forward.

Frankly, outside of the core fandom, the majority of players have always regarded AC's story as overly convoluted nonsense and Desmond being one of the worst things about it. I don't see why you think that same audience would suddenly become enamored with MD if they introduced yet another Desmond. Even comments about the movie tend to be "why did they take the worst part of the games and put it in the movie?". Personally I would love a new 3rd person protagonist, but I also understand why Ubi have shied away from it thus far.

cawatrooper9
11-29-2016, 10:22 PM
Frankly, outside of the core fandom, the majority of players have always regarded AC's story as overly convoluted nonsense and Desmond being one of the worst things about it. I don't see why you think that same audience would suddenly become enamored with MD if they introduced yet another Desmond. Even comments about the movie tend to be "why did they take the worst part of the games and put it in the movie?". Personally I would love a new 3rd person protagonist, but I also understand why Ubi have shied away from it thus far.

I totally understand that the MD stuff can scare away new fans, but man... it's what makes AC into AC. Ubisoft was smart in establishing an anchor point to allow them to travel through various timeframes and still allow for some familiar elements. How they handled it since then has been the problem.

RVSage
11-29-2016, 10:37 PM
Within the forum there will be a bias towards the answer "YES", because people who visit here are "Core" fans , like SixKeys mentioned. But outside the forum I guess people would not bother either way

joshoolhorst
11-29-2016, 10:58 PM
They shouldn't have gotten rid of Desmond in the first place. I liked him and never understood the hate.

This is from someone who doesn't mind to play as Desmond and was happy to get out of the Animus.

AC1: Desmond knows he has parents that are Assassin's and grew up with Assassin's and has all the rights to be pissed at Abstergo but here I dropped my mouth ''That was my only way out'' Seriously those people died because of you and you don't care at all what happens to them! you are such a ****! we also never got to see his past to expierence it so alot of players are ''what's the problem we never saw it''

AC2: Desmond gets beaten up in the opening, we go to Ezio and he is way better in the first 5 minutes in combat than Desmond was, everything else about him is oke but the characters completly ignore him after Desmond blacks out for a minute

Brotherhood was he alright

Revelations he was just a bore probably because the game was never planned.

AC3: The ending...

SixKeys
11-30-2016, 12:25 AM
I totally understand that the MD stuff can scare away new fans, but man... it's what makes AC into AC. Ubisoft was smart in establishing an anchor point to allow them to travel through various timeframes and still allow for some familiar elements. How they handled it since then has been the problem.

The key, I think, is to keep things simple and not rely too heavily on cliffhanger endings. The reason MD kept getting more and more convoluted towards the end of Desmond's story is because they kept having to one-up themselves. Once you introduce an alien hologram in the Vatican who speaks directly to the player, it's hard to go back to more grounded storytelling. I still feel that the First Civ should have been kept as a mystery, just the source of these mythical objects like the Apple but never really shown. But that genie is out of the bottle and they have to deal with it now. MD has always been at its best when it has walked the line between the slightly mysterious yet mostly plausible. In AC2 we had Desmond getting Bleeding Effect visions while training with Lucy, in ACB we walked around crumbling historical sites chasing ghosts, in AC3 we could wander the vast halls of the temple and marvel at the architecture. The mysteries are always more compelling than having a member of the Isu directly talk to the player character or feeding us every morsel of information about their society. I don't want to know how the Isu filed their taxes, I want them to remain forever out of reach, too complex for mere humans to understand.

Galactus123
11-30-2016, 10:14 AM
This is from someone who doesn't mind to play as Desmond and was happy to get out of the Animus.

AC1: Desmond knows he has parents that are Assassin's and grew up with Assassin's and has all the rights to be pissed at Abstergo but here I dropped my mouth ''That was my only way out'' Seriously those people died because of you and you don't care at all what happens to them! you are such a ****! we also never got to see his past to expierence it so alot of players are ''what's the problem we never saw it''

AC2: Desmond gets beaten up in the opening, we go to Ezio and he is way better in the first 5 minutes in combat than Desmond was, everything else about him is oke but the characters completly ignore him after Desmond blacks out for a minute

Brotherhood was he alright

Revelations he was just a bore probably because the game was never planned.

AC3: The ending...
Yeah the ending was a mistake. I'm sad that there never was a game were Desmond was a proper assassin doing stuff. There was some in AC3 with but that was it. The built up was for nothing.

cawatrooper9
11-30-2016, 03:47 PM
The key, I think, is to keep things simple and not rely too heavily on cliffhanger endings. The reason MD kept getting more and more convoluted towards the end of Desmond's story is because they kept having to one-up themselves. Once you introduce an alien hologram in the Vatican who speaks directly to the player, it's hard to go back to more grounded storytelling. I still feel that the First Civ should have been kept as a mystery, just the source of these mythical objects like the Apple but never really shown. But that genie is out of the bottle and they have to deal with it now. MD has always been at its best when it has walked the line between the slightly mysterious yet mostly plausible. In AC2 we had Desmond getting Bleeding Effect visions while training with Lucy, in ACB we walked around crumbling historical sites chasing ghosts, in AC3 we could wander the vast halls of the temple and marvel at the architecture. The mysteries are always more compelling than having a member of the Isu directly talk to the player character or feeding us every morsel of information about their society. I don't want to know how the Isu filed their taxes, I want them to remain forever out of reach, too complex for mere humans to understand.

Yeah, the "genie" is definitely out of the bottle. They have a very difficult task ahead now.

They have to treat their story gently, but still advance the plot to be interesting. It would be great if we could go back to a time when the First Civ was just a mystery, but that's not likely to happen- too many people on both sides are far too familiar with it now, especially with the Project Phoenix thing and how open Abstergo seems about it. And if Ubisoft was to just drop that plot entirely, they'd be ignoring almost all MD plot development since 2007- not a wise idea at all.

So, basically, we need to get a story that is interesting to old fans, accessible to new fans, moves the story forward, and lays the groundwork for sequels to build off of. Good luck, Ubisoft- you truly have my best wishes, because I want this to be as good as possible.

joelsantos24
11-30-2016, 05:24 PM
After the appearance of the Shroud of Eden in Syndicate, and knowing of the possibility that it can actually re-create people from scratch, so to speak, some people believe it can (and will) be used to bring Desmond back. I think it'd be perfect, as a second round in the fight against Juno and to prevent whatever she's planning to do.

cawatrooper9
11-30-2016, 05:56 PM
After the appearance of the Shroud of Eden in Syndicate, and knowing of the possibility that it can actually re-create people from scratch, so to speak, some people believe it can (and will) be used to bring Desmond back. I think it'd be perfect, as a second round in the fight against Juno and to prevent whatever she's planning to do.

As a longtime fan, I'd love that. But remember, it's pretty clear that Ubisoft is looking to draw in new fans, and a lot of them would simply think "Desmond who?"


Although, perhaps the Ezio remaster was a little more strategic than we may have thought...

crusader_prophet
11-30-2016, 06:04 PM
I don't think the idea is to just have another protagonist. The series' appeal to me at the beginning was the enigma surrounding the bigger truth that was at play - the truth video, existence of an ancient extinct hyperspatial race beyond mankind's imagination, the secrets of creation that pervades our existence and escapes our comprehension, that human beings are only a blip in the graph of universe, that there is something bigger more ancient and everlasting chain of events than the ancient conflict between Assassins and Templars - and in all that Desmond was merely a tool which showed how powerless we are and that men like Ezio and Altair, respected legends were only pawns of someone else's plan.

If UbiSoft can bring all that back, the franchise might live again. But at this point considering the enigma is gone and boiled down to a floating spirit AI/Isu hybrid stuck inside the internet, it's an enormous task to create that level of mystery again regardless of how mysterious we consider pyramids and ruins are. But I want it to be successful again, I want the lore to be that elusive again. Something that challenges us to dare comprehend it if we can. Because I'll always love Assassin's Creed.

joshoolhorst
11-30-2016, 08:15 PM
Yeah the ending was a mistake. I'm sad that there never was a game were Desmond was a proper assassin doing stuff. There was some in AC3 with but that was it. The built up was for nothing.

If they had something like 5 MAIN story missions and 20 side missions and all well designed the Modern Day would be here I am sure of it

GunnerGalactico
11-30-2016, 09:03 PM
It's good to see people still keeping the hope of 3rd person MD alive.

SixKeys
11-30-2016, 09:16 PM
Yeah, the "genie" is definitely out of the bottle. They have a very difficult task ahead now.

They have to treat their story gently, but still advance the plot to be interesting. It would be great if we could go back to a time when the First Civ was just a mystery, but that's not likely to happen- too many people on both sides are far too familiar with it now, especially with the Project Phoenix thing and how open Abstergo seems about it. And if Ubisoft was to just drop that plot entirely, they'd be ignoring almost all MD plot development since 2007- not a wise idea at all.

So, basically, we need to get a story that is interesting to old fans, accessible to new fans, moves the story forward, and lays the groundwork for sequels to build off of. Good luck, Ubisoft- you truly have my best wishes, because I want this to be as good as possible.

Here's my idea:

They need to force the Isu into the shadows again. Minerva is already PO'd at humans because Desmond refused to do as he was told so she took off in a huff. Juno hanging around "the Grey" for four years afterwards doing bugger-all was a mistake, I think we can all agree on that. They need her to either die or disappear like Minerva, that would have echoes of the classic "the gods are angry and have abandoned us". That would allow the devs to hop forward in time a few years, similar to how AC1 was set in 2012. We have a new protagonist, the assassins have spent most of their time worrying about the immediate threat of the Templars (who have been led on the offensive by Otso Berg) instead of chasing ghosts. Basically, they know Minerva and Juno are off somewhere brooding and not directly meddling in human affairs. This wouldn't have to stop us from searching for ancient artifacts and temples, though. It wouldn't stop us from uncovering more secrets about our DNA (maybe unlocking new abilities alongside Eagle Vision). We could even have a new Subject 16-ish mystery character who keeps leaving us breadcrumbs to follow to uncover Abstergo plans, something concrete and immediate.

All you have to do to bring back the mysteries is force the omnipotent gods, the most outrageous part of MD, back into the shadows. They can still be part of the lore, we can still learn things about their civilization, maybe decipher messages left behind warning us about a new threat. Just drop the personal encounters that are too on-the-nose and obviously too difficult to handle in gameplay. If they weren't too difficult, we would already have had an epic boss fight against Juno years ago. It's clear they don't know what to do with these characters. They're gods (essentially), too powerful, too knowledgeable. How do you create a boss fight against an omnipotent, omniscient being with the current AC gameplay mechanics without making it totally unsatisfying? AC has never been good at boss fights and we've only fought against mere mortals so far.

Whatever they're doing with Juno, they need to drop her like a ton of bricks, stat. I don't care if it's in the games or transmedia, I just want her gone. She's the one dragging MD down with her mere existence. As soon as she's gone, the devs can start with a clean slate. Have the "gods" abandon mankind, leave us to our fate. Then we can bring back the fun stuff like secrets, conspiracies and mysteries.

cawatrooper9
11-30-2016, 09:38 PM
Whatever they're doing with Juno, they need to drop her like a ton of bricks, stat. I don't care if it's in the games or transmedia, I just want her gone. She's the one dragging MD down with her mere existence. As soon as she's gone, the devs can start with a clean slate. Have the "gods" abandon mankind, leave us to our fate. Then we can bring back the fun stuff like secrets, conspiracies and mysteries.

Yeah, sadly it doesn't seem like they're going anywhere with her- and honestly, she's had potential as a decent character, but I don't think she's really earned her title as "Big Bad" of the series. I agree that she should be either shunted back off to the shadows, or maybe even just force a confrontation with her in the next game so we can finally move forward. I really like the idea of a "gods have abandoned us" kind of thing, though. Especially since there'd be some element of mystery still- because we've seen them, have they truly abandoned us?

GunnerGalactico
11-30-2016, 09:40 PM
Whatever they're doing with Juno, they need to drop her like a ton of bricks, stat. I don't care if it's in the games or transmedia, I just want her gone. She's the one dragging MD down with her mere existence. As soon as she's gone, the devs can start with a clean slate. Have the "gods" abandon mankind, leave us to our fate. Then we can bring back the fun stuff like secrets, conspiracies and mysteries.

^ This!

The moment Juno was reduced to a mere holographic projection, that was the time I actually stopped caring about the saga concerning the Isu. I just hope that we can do more things during the modern day segments, other than wandering about room to room hacking computers and accessing e-mail.

cawatrooper9
11-30-2016, 10:22 PM
Honestly, it would have been okay if we had some vague allusion to Juno in Black Flag, then she just went dark for several years. That would've been actually pretty cool- a confirmation that she'd return, but allowing the franchise to focus on other things for a while, silently moving her story along in the background. I can't help but wonder if that's what Unity tried to do, but faced backlash for.

Elder-Kalakta
12-01-2016, 12:35 AM
I don't want to know how the Isu filed their taxes.

*Curiosity intensifies*

Now I want to know how they filed their Taxes of Eden. :p

I can understand your concerns. While I am one of those who would gladly learn 100% everything about the Isu. I do accept the fact that with mystery it leaves us a lot of room for fun speculating among each other about the Precursors. Something that full knowledge about them might deprive us from.

Because, to be frank, the more we learn about them, the more human-like they are and it genuinely makes me question Juno's arrogant "a hundred years I might speak and still you would not know us" quote or Minerva's sentences about our minds never being ready to comprehend their existence when the answer's quite simple - look in the mirror and revel at the Isu staring back at you.

But despite their humanization, there's still very unique and different things about them that separates them from us. If Ubisoft plans to reveal more, they should tread carefully to keep them unique but grounded and familiar in some aspects, to carefully balance them rather than just simply make them advanced Homo sapiens from 75,000 BCE watching holographic human slave memes on IsuTube.

legendvinu
12-01-2016, 02:52 AM
IMO the game in present day story rokz it gives the game the nice advantage what's going on in the present world as well as in the game.I loved Assassin's creed 2 brotherhood and 3 as Desmond escapes from the Abstergo Industries train up and fight the templars was a good ideas but killing in the 3 to save the world was the worst part though till part 3 it was really awsome, but the thing here after this guy dies there is no story in the modern day and I really don't want to talk about this unknown person called The Initiate guy or s girl. This is where the story goes but the story writer wants us to forget Desmond and save Him for the future game I am purely and surely know that he will be back after that what happend to Assassin's after Desmond die and there is sudden lot of characters like Gelina, Becs,Bishap etc what exactly are they going to convey to us?!! .Send one Assasin's to kill a Sigma team leader is worst mistakes are Assassin's running out of Assassin's?(Syndicate) what exactly are they planning I don't want to play as this 2nd person known as the Initiate Guy or Girl.Ubisoft wanted to focus on the game and not the modern day? But Modern day is the best to play and can be talked by each Assassin's on daily basis each and every day. I also want to say I din't get the story right after Desmond died.But I always love the Assassin's creed Modern day gameplay as well as the game the linking is so nice in gameplay.The one and only problem is I can't understand what's going on with Assassin's and Templars now?? As today also both exist.I think that forgetting about MOdern day will help the future games as the battle between templars and Juno is not over.



I am pretty well sure Desmond is gonna resurrect using The Ankh in the Empire(or an new name as Victory has been coaded as Syndicate) or it may Resurrect Juno. Love the story line Thanks to the team.

legendvinu
12-01-2016, 03:06 AM
I guess we will have to wait for the AC movie and see, how they did the story there. It looks much like that there is a MD story to it, which is not just a side track. If Ubisoft wants to attract new people to the franchise, which did not play any AC game before, it will have to be not too far away from how it is portrait in the movie or people will be confused and eventually not stay with the franchise.

This movie will basically define the expectations new players will have and if those are not matched in the first game, they buy after the movie, the whole purpose of the movie might fall short.

Will there be Easter egg in the movie about the game empire about modern day??:confused::rolleyes:

cawatrooper9
12-01-2016, 03:25 PM
Will there be Easter egg in the movie about the game empire about modern day??:confused::rolleyes:

Maybe, but I wouldn't necessarily count on it. If anything, we'll probably get Easter Eggs from previous games, to appease fans.

Some people are thinking we'll get a trailer for Empire before the AC Movie. I seriously doubt that, but I won't deny that it'd be cool.

crusader_prophet
12-01-2016, 03:49 PM
Maybe, but I wouldn't necessarily count on it. If anything, we'll probably get Easter Eggs from previous games, to appease fans.

Some people are thinking we'll get a trailer for Empire before the AC Movie. I seriously doubt that, but I won't deny that it'd be cool.

I agree, it might be too early for them to tease assets from the next game. Although it could be effective in siphoning some non-gamers become interested in the franchise.

cawatrooper9
12-01-2016, 04:20 PM
I agree, it might be too early for them to tease assets from the next game. Although it could be effective in siphoning some non-gamers become interested in the franchise.

True- and in the case of an actual gameplay trailer, it's be a really bold move. I'm totally not rooting against this, I'd love to see some Empire news- you might even say I have an Empire State of Mind (oh my god, that was lame :p), but I'm just feeling pessimistic in this case. Still, can't fault the dreamers, as I usually am one.

crusader_prophet
12-01-2016, 05:16 PM
I'm totally not rooting against this, I'd love to see some Empire news- you might even say I have an Empire State of Mind (oh my god, that was lame :p), but I'm just feeling pessimistic in this case. Still, can't fault the dreamers, as I usually am one.

e-high-five. I'd love to see some official stuff from the next game. But like you I'm also doubtful we'll. For now we'll have to relish our dreams and keep the feedback and ideas flowing in the forum and hope the developers notice few.

crusader_prophet
12-01-2016, 06:47 PM
Have the "gods" abandon mankind, leave us to our fate. Then we can bring back the fun stuff like secrets, conspiracies and mysteries.

So I've a theory, just a theory. We know for a while now that UbiSoft likes to play footsies with religious themes and theories. Although the adoption of the Mayan prediction wasn't religious, the elements surrounding it - Desmond saving the world and turning into a prophet etc - are inspired from religious mythology.

What if they are trying to develop Juno and her eventual arrival in the physical world from the digital realm as the arrival of anti-christ of the unholy trinity in 2020 (predicted by Jeanne Dixon a self proclaimed psychic). And to resemble resurrection of Jesus, they can either develop Desmond's son who already contains high concentration of Isu genetic material as well as established as a Sage. This can also lead to a great moral and emotional conflict narrative in the games considering Sages are known to be loyal to Juno and her having weakness for Aita. It can also depict a feasible pathway towards defeating Juno and end her lingering burden on the AC lore. AC Empire is also rumored to be a trilogy and supposed to explore different geographical and political eras of the Roman Empire. It can perfectly sync with Jesus/Isā resurrection aka Desmond's son and tether it back to when he fled to Egypt with his mother from King Herod.

Lysette88
12-01-2016, 06:56 PM
Hm, I would rather know more about pagan religious background than any of abrahamic religions, which means no Judaism, Islam or Christianity. Ancient egypt should be about egypt's gods as far as religion is concerned and there is more than enough mythology to those, which can make the game interesting to play and give the egyptian vibe. But there could be a connection to the story in the bible about the time of the hebrews in egypt - this falls into the new kingdom of egypt, where egypt invaded this territory and enslaved the hebrews.

crusader_prophet
12-01-2016, 10:03 PM
Hm, I would rather know more about pagan religious background than any of abrahamic religions, which means no Judaism, Islam or Christianity. Ancient egypt should be about egypt's gods as far as religion is concerned and there is more than enough mythology to those, which can make the game interesting to play and give the egyptian vibe. But there could be a connection to the story in the bible about the time of the hebrews in egypt - this falls into the new kingdom of egypt, where egypt invaded this territory and enslaved the hebrews.

Oh absolutely there has to be polytheistic themes because that was the predominant belief in the Roman Empire. Without it there wouldn't be Roman Empire & ancient Egyptian vibe. My theory was about an approach to get rid of Juno while remaining consistent with the current lore.

legendvinu
12-02-2016, 02:27 PM
Maybe, but I wouldn't necessarily count on it. If anything, we'll probably get Easter Eggs from previous games, to appease fans.

Some people are thinking we'll get a trailer for Empire before the AC Movie. I seriously doubt that, but I won't deny that it'd be cool.

Really the Trailer?? But if they put We Assassin's will be Happy but I think it is too early for us IMO we will get it in E3 2017.

JamesFaith007
12-02-2016, 03:03 PM
Hm, I would rather know more about pagan religious background than any of abrahamic religions, which means no Judaism, Islam or Christianity. Ancient egypt should be about egypt's gods as far as religion is concerned and there is more than enough mythology to those, which can make the game interesting to play and give the egyptian vibe. But there could be a connection to the story in the bible about the time of the hebrews in egypt - this falls into the new kingdom of egypt, where egypt invaded this territory and enslaved the hebrews.

Agreed, Egyptian mythology is too colorful to be use as secondary.

For that reason I would prefer setting during Akhenaten reign when pharaoh Amenhotep IV abandoned old gods and forced Egypt to worship new monotheistic god Aten. This religious conflict should be great background theme in AC game and sudden appearance of new god would open interesting possibilities for First Civilization.

RinoTheBouncer
12-03-2016, 04:02 PM
Here's my idea:

They need to force the Isu into the shadows again. Minerva is already PO'd at humans because Desmond refused to do as he was told so she took off in a huff. Juno hanging around "the Grey" for four years afterwards doing bugger-all was a mistake, I think we can all agree on that. They need her to either die or disappear like Minerva, that would have echoes of the classic "the gods are angry and have abandoned us". That would allow the devs to hop forward in time a few years, similar to how AC1 was set in 2012. We have a new protagonist, the assassins have spent most of their time worrying about the immediate threat of the Templars (who have been led on the offensive by Otso Berg) instead of chasing ghosts. Basically, they know Minerva and Juno are off somewhere brooding and not directly meddling in human affairs. This wouldn't have to stop us from searching for ancient artifacts and temples, though. It wouldn't stop us from uncovering more secrets about our DNA (maybe unlocking new abilities alongside Eagle Vision). We could even have a new Subject 16-ish mystery character who keeps leaving us breadcrumbs to follow to uncover Abstergo plans, something concrete and immediate.

All you have to do to bring back the mysteries is force the omnipotent gods, the most outrageous part of MD, back into the shadows. They can still be part of the lore, we can still learn things about their civilization, maybe decipher messages left behind warning us about a new threat. Just drop the personal encounters that are too on-the-nose and obviously too difficult to handle in gameplay. If they weren't too difficult, we would already have had an epic boss fight against Juno years ago. It's clear they don't know what to do with these characters. They're gods (essentially), too powerful, too knowledgeable. How do you create a boss fight against an omnipotent, omniscient being with the current AC gameplay mechanics without making it totally unsatisfying? AC has never been good at boss fights and we've only fought against mere mortals so far.

Whatever they're doing with Juno, they need to drop her like a ton of bricks, stat. I don't care if it's in the games or transmedia, I just want her gone. She's the one dragging MD down with her mere existence. As soon as she's gone, the devs can start with a clean slate. Have the "gods" abandon mankind, leave us to our fate. Then we can bring back the fun stuff like secrets, conspiracies and mysteries.

But isn't that what's been happening since ACIV? after ACIII, I expected the modern day of the next game to feel a bit more apocalyptic and the story to get much more serious regarding Juno running on the loose. But they kept her as this hologram or computer software that makes few statements every once in a while with nothing tangible really happening.

The games from ACI to ACIII were bringing the gods to the forefront and suddenly they were pushed to the back like nothing ever happened. I swear I wish Desmond chose to let the world burn. At least the modern day would've been more interesting as a post-apocalyptic world with endless possibilities as to what could possibly happen. That alone could be a huge reason for them to use the Animus to both escape that reality and to find ways to start up civilization again, and avoiding the mistakes of the past. But now, they put Juno as some sort of impending danger and I'm sure they haven't even figured out how dangerous she can be or how can even face or end her. Like you said, they can't make a boss fight out of and at the same time, keeping her in The Grey isn't satisfying to fans because nothing significant has happened for 3 games so far.

I guess finding a new threat is cool and all, but Juno shouldn't just be ended in a comic book or to be totally forgotten about with no explanation, because a lot of people have actually invested time trying to make theories about how this could end, so they deserve some justice with a proper conclusion. It could be in one game or a CGI movie and then start over with something different.

I totally dig the idea of pushing the modern day into the future so as to avoid having to keep up with present affairs and focus on a new danger in a new world, where there's more freedom to develop Assassins and Templars and their conflicts and power without being limited to what's realistic in present day.

SixKeys
12-03-2016, 08:02 PM
But isn't that what's been happening since ACIV? after ACIII, I expected the modern day of the next game to feel a bit more apocalyptic and the story to get much more serious regarding Juno running on the loose. But they kept her as this hologram or computer software that makes few statements every once in a while with nothing tangible really happening.

What has been happening is that they've kept Juno hanging on like a dirty sock, as a way to pretend that "oh yeah, she's totally still a threat, she's just biding her time, is all" when in truth they don't know what to do with her and have no interest in her. AC4's modern day would have been better without that dumb segment where we go down into the basement and she talks to us and then nothing happens. Without that scene, AC4's MD was fairly grounded and had this AC1 feel where we're an outsider slowly uncovering the plans of this sinister company. Just reading the e-mails and mysterious notes left by the people who worship Juno would have been enough. But then they go and reveal the big, rubber monster and the whole thing gets deflated. "Oh. That was....weird. Okay, I'll just get back to my desk now, shall I?"



The games from ACI to ACIII were bringing the gods to the forefront and suddenly they were pushed to the back like nothing ever happened. I swear I wish Desmond chose to let the world burn. At least the modern day would've been more interesting as a post-apocalyptic world with endless possibilities as to what could possibly happen. That alone could be a huge reason for them to use the Animus to both escape that reality and to find ways to start up civilization again, and avoiding the mistakes of the past. But now, they put Juno as some sort of impending danger and I'm sure they haven't even figured out how dangerous she can be or how can even face or end her. Like you said, they can't make a boss fight out of and at the same time, keeping her in The Grey isn't satisfying to fans because nothing significant has happened for 3 games so far.

Bringing the gods to the forefront in the first place was the mistake, that's what I'm trying to say. It worked back when the series was meant to be a trilogy, but now we know they intend to keep it going as long as humanly possible, we begin to see why it doesn't work long-term. It was fine when you thought Minerva's appearance at the Vault was basically the middle act in a three-act story, but then they kept introducing more and more crazy plot elements in the mid-quels to artificially stretch the story, and in the end we had no resolution for half of those things.

I don't blame the devs for things done in the past. The decision to make AC an annual thing came from the top and they just had to make the best of it. They probably could have done a lot better with more time to plan ahead. What I'm saying is that now they're standing at the same crossroads again. AC1 taking a year or two off now means they have a little breathing space. They have the chance to do things differently. A chance to take the long view, figure out a way to keep the mysteries going for years without having to resort to increasingly outrageous deus ex machinas.

Juno is the last remnant of those outrageous plot devices. We've been telling ourselves for years "maybe this time she'll finally do something", but **** it, I'm tired of waiting. It's just not happening. The next AC may not come until 2017 or even 2018. AC3 was in 2012. That means we might have Juno waiting SIX YEARS to do anything in this damn universe. That's not a credible threat. That's not what we were promised at the end of AC3. "Now it's my turn to play my part." Oh? Is that the part where you sit on your *** for six years while your beloved husband does more than you do? The Sage is more interesting than Juno at this point. Her cult-like followers are more interesting. Desmond's son is more interesting. Juno is a god and she's shockingly boring. That's just not right.

Would it be disappointing at this point to have her quietly dropped before starting over with a new threat? Yes, it would. But it's better than endlessly waiting for the devs to come up with some use for her. They clearly have other, much more intriguing ideas that they could freely explore without this one crusty leftover hanging on. I can just picture the storyboard meetings:

"OMG I just came up with this great idea. What if Desmond's son did this and this?
-Oh, hell yeah, that'd be so cool!!
-Um, hate to bring this up but where do we fit Juno in all of this?
*everybody deflates*
-Ugh, forgot about her. I guess we'll have to deal with her first somehow. Any ideas?
*crickets*
-Well, I can't think of anything either. Let's just drop the Desmond's son idea for now and think of some more cryptic lines for Juno to spout, figure out what to do with her closer to the release date."


So yeah, that's why I say - as someone who used to be really excited about TWCB and First Civ stuff - drop Juno already and start over. This time with more foreplanning and less relying on crazy plot twists. With that strategy, you can keep MD going for years while being able to explore new ideas, new threats, new characters and new mysteries.

adrianbelew
12-03-2016, 09:40 PM
I would like to see a new one, as a outsider assassin investigating the abstergo corp at various locations around the world. I would actually really like to see one where the main game took place in the modern world, with massive massive massive locations where you have to take down abstergo corp (again, across the globe) and allowing the player to retrieve new memories from Abstergo. so it's kind of like Ezio retrieving Altair memories on a much larger scale.

a possible watchdogs tie in could work. maybe even call it watch dogs: abstergo or some bs like that. like the idea of the assassins rescuing desmond from the perpetual coma and dillusions of grandeur he's been suffering since AC1

Farlander1991
12-03-2016, 10:53 PM
I don't blame the devs for things done in the past. The decision to make AC an annual thing came from the top and they just had to make the best of it. They probably could have done a lot better with more time to plan ahead.

Here's the thing, though, and I have a feeling that my post is going to be controversial among the AC community here, but this is what I think of the whole modern day situation. While annualization didn't help, it's not because of it the Modern Day storyline in AC is a mess. It's because of AC2. AC2 ****ed over modern day BAD, to the point that after it it wouldn't matter if the game stayed a trilogy - it still would've been a mess. The irony is, of course, that the most vocal supporters of modern day also consider AC2 to be the best of the franchise. While anybody who values modern day in AC should criticize the hell out of it, but that didn't and still doesn't happen. Fans can be weird.

AC1 has set up a story that could've been perfectly told over the course of 3 games. It was centered around the Assassins versus Templar conflict (so direct relation with historical parts also centered on AvT conflict), with the main danger being the Satellite Launch - the date of which coincided with the date on the calendar and which Subject 16 described in his ramblings as the end of the world and beginning of new world order (everybody conveniently forgets about the fact that AC1 has set up the end of the world as being metaphorical). And the Templars would do so thanks to the MacGuffins that we chase both in Modern and Historical parts, which are artifacts of TWCB. TWCB exist more for world-building reasons than anything.

If AC2 would've just continued what was set up, we'd have a great modern day story. But AC2 **** all over it instead. Not only did AC2 not do ANYTHING with the main Satellite plotline in the game... it introduced a SECOND main plotline right at the very end, as a twist. With two important subplots still hanging - the Bleeding Effect and Subject 16. The only way AC3 would manage to somehow handle all that is if it were a full modern day game only (and I would like to note that there's absolutely no confirmation in any of the interviews that full modern AC3 was ever in plans - there's no information beyond that some developers wanted it to be that way), which wouldn't happen. Whatever plan there was before, AC2 would change it completely.

Because if the game had stayed a trilogy, AC3 would have to deal in its modern day segments with two main plotlines and two big subplots, and it would've been very underwhelming and messy in the end. In fact, it would hardly be any different than the AC3 we have, which also deals with two main plotlines and two big subplots, with the difference being that it was different subplots (instead of Bleeding Effect and Subject 16 we have Father/Son relationship and Daniel Cross). We all know how well that turned out.

Annualization was actually the only way the modern day plot could've been saved and smoothed out, by providing more games and more time to deal with the **** that AC2 pulled out. But everybody loved all the mystery and big twists that AC2 has introduced... that the next games followed suit instead of just dealing with what was there. Yes, it's clearly seen that there wasn't any real plan in how the modern day storyline would advance in annualized titles. But the starting point of that wasn't ACB and annualization. It was AC2 that pushed away everything AC1 has set up, did jack **** with modern day, introduced more **** for future game(s) to deal with... and everybody loved it for that. Good job, guys. And I'm serious, if fans weren't so happy with how AC2 handled modern day, the negative feedback would force to reevaluate the modern day strategy and the direction that AC2 has pushed it to, making it much less convoluted in the process, and then games after AC3 wouldn't need to try to do damage control of all the mess as well as establish a new plotline.

Though all of this doesn't justify the weird strategies with transmedia that AC had over the years and some of the convoluted things that it brought into the mix. But if main series wouldn't have tried to overcomplicate things itself, it would be much easier to deal with the transmedia issues.

Anyway, I just hope that this year off is really gonna put things on the right track.

SixKeys
12-04-2016, 04:37 AM
I agree with you, Farlander. Though I will say that ACB and ACR didn't exactly help AC3 come to a satisfying conclusion. AC2 did set up several plot threads that might have been difficult to tie up in the next game, but the two mid-quels introduced even more instead of using that extra time to tie up some of the smaller ones. Subject 16 is the only one that got properly tied up, I think, and they had to completely change his personality in order to do that. So it was hardly satisfying in any case.

Anyway, AC2 had some problems that we can now see in hindsight. We know from Nolan North that the writers literally had no plan after AC1, just a lot of potential ideas, and I guess it shows in the sequel. Back then it was a small IP and a small team, now it's a billion-dollar franchise with seven or eight studios working together. They have the chance - nay, the necessity - to do better now. The devs have said for years that they do more pre-planning nowadays, but if they do, it hasn't shown in the overarching plot. The MD plot is still all over the place and more fractured than ever. We still see new ideas introduced and unceremoniously dropped (Initiates). It's more vital now than ever to make a proper road map for the series' future. Everyone is looking to Empire as a make-it-or-break-it revamp. If they do it right, they can keep the franchise going for years. If they keep sticking to the old ways, it will fail.

joelsantos24
12-04-2016, 02:45 PM
As a longtime fan, I'd love that. But remember, it's pretty clear that Ubisoft is looking to draw in new fans, and a lot of them would simply think "Desmond who?"

Although, perhaps the Ezio remaster was a little more strategic than we may have thought...
Well, I don't really care about drawing new fans. Furthermore, the series always did well, commercially speaking, so they should just focus on keeping us engaged.


Yeah, sadly it doesn't seem like they're going anywhere with her- and honestly, she's had potential as a decent character, but I don't think she's really earned her title as "Big Bad" of the series. I agree that she should be either shunted back off to the shadows, or maybe even just force a confrontation with her in the next game so we can finally move forward. I really like the idea of a "gods have abandoned us" kind of thing, though. Especially since there'd be some element of mystery still- because we've seen them, have they truly abandoned us?
I don't think the "revival" of the meta-story is prevalent on Juno's demise. She's adopted the role of main villain in the series, but she's just bidding her time. She hasn't done anything but make sporadical appearances. They need to finally get on with whatever plan they have for the meta-story, rather than keeping us on some unappealing and boring loop of anonymous, first-person tasks.

Farlander1991
12-04-2016, 03:41 PM
I agree with you, Farlander. Though I will say that ACB and ACR didn't exactly help AC3 come to a satisfying conclusion. AC2 did set up several plot threads that might have been difficult to tie up in the next game, but the two mid-quels introduced even more instead of using that extra time to tie up some of the smaller ones.

Yeah, absolutely agree. As I said, the following games followed the suit of introducing more twists and surprises like AC2 instead of dealing with what was introduced already.

SixKeys
12-05-2016, 04:28 AM
Well, I don't really care about drawing new fans. Furthermore, the series always did well, commercially speaking, so they should just focus on keeping us engaged.

AC1 didn't do that well at the beginning, it didn't do badly either but the reception was lukewarm at best. It wasn't until the series tried to appeal to new gamers with AC2 that the series blew up. The devs obviously shouldn't completely ignore the old fans, but this attitude of "they shouldn't care about new players, just cater to the dwindling existing fanbase until the series is dead" is a terrible business strategy.

Elder-Kalakta
12-05-2016, 04:56 AM
AC1 didn't do that well at the beginning, it didn't do badly either but the reception was lukewarm at best. It wasn't until the series tried to appeal to new gamers with AC2 that the series blew up. The devs obviously shouldn't completely ignore the old fans, but this attitude of "they shouldn't care about new players, just cater to the dwindling existing fanbase until the series is dead" is a terrible business strategy.

That's absolutely true. Ubisoft should try and bring in new fans and I hope the upcoming movie gets more people interested in the games. Obviously there are pros and cons to trying out new things as has been witnessed with the franchise already. Some new things have been well received and drew in more people, while others have been less well received and so on. I hope Empire blows people's minds and gets more new fans hooked.

Like you said, it'd be good for business which will bring Ubisoft profit which will keep the franchise alive and relevant.