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BS87
01-15-2004, 01:43 PM
Ok, so online all i hear about is how hte LA is overmodelled, etc, so i figured i'd create this thread ot see what some of the problems with the Las are, as far as the community is concerned. The only I personally have against it, is that sometimes it seems insanely stable. I've seen them pull incredible manuvers that would make any other plane stall, but they do it with ease. But i cant really say that is wrong, because i have no idea how the plane was in real life.

BS87
01-15-2004, 01:43 PM
Ok, so online all i hear about is how hte LA is overmodelled, etc, so i figured i'd create this thread ot see what some of the problems with the Las are, as far as the community is concerned. The only I personally have against it, is that sometimes it seems insanely stable. I've seen them pull incredible manuvers that would make any other plane stall, but they do it with ease. But i cant really say that is wrong, because i have no idea how the plane was in real life.

gates123
01-15-2004, 02:01 PM
It absorbs to much damage, its almost as bad as a p.11. Anything short of a 108 hitting it. Its easier to bring down a FW with 303's.

lbhskier37
01-15-2004, 02:02 PM
Its russian. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Osirisx9
01-15-2004, 02:14 PM
I don't have any problem with the La series but I did get tired of being shot down by them whenever I fly the 109 but thats because I have not figured out where the sweet spot is on the series. However, the La series are becomming very popular again online. I myself dont like to fly them because they are too easy and don't pressent much of a challenge to fly like the 109 series, P-51,P-39 and slow ars zero. Every aircraft has its weekness in the game. I think that the weekness of the La series is the pilot because the plane is so easy to fly and excells in every performance parameter. The pilot stops thinking tactical and gets suckered into bad situations because they depend on the aircraft more than their abilities. I've since gave up on the 109 series, because i just dont understand how to fly the darn things and been focusing on learning to fly the zero. I kill plenty of co-cky La pilots because they think that they can out-think me while i'm flying the zero. They will start trying to turn with me and approach me with too little airspeed and attempt their wild maneuvers. I've put in close to 100hrs flying the zero within the last two weeks and learned allot of its secrets and learned to fly it fast and hard. So if the La Pilot is within my gun range, is going below 450 kph, and doing the little stunt flying thing he is mine. So...In a nutshell I wont say that the La series are overmodelled, they are just good aircraft to fly online. If you out-smart its pilot and know what your bird and his bird can do you will beat the La.

Osiris_X9

SlickStick
01-15-2004, 04:47 PM
I've been flying the LA series since the start of IL2. As in all planes, it has gone through numerous tweaks in subsequent patches, but in V1.21, the LA7 is the most dominant fighter in the game.

It's not the fastest, especially in a dive, it doesn't have the best climb or the best turning circle, but it does all those things in a perfect balance, at a level near all of the best planes in each of those performance categories.

I've run a 1 vs 1 series off and on over the past two years and after facing a few hundred pilots of varying skills, planes and tactics, I've found that in V1.21 and in the case of relatively equal pilot skills, the LA7 has nothing to fear, but only the very best flown K4s in the vertical or another LA7.

Osirisx9 wrote about using a Zero to overcome LA7 pilots that stop thinking. The hard part is using a Zero to beat an LA7 pilot that never stops thinking.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The Yak3 used to dominate the T and B game up to an early version of FB, always able to keep enough energy and use it's great rolling to Split S the LA7 to death. Now, the LA7 and Yak3 have been properly adjusted and the Yak bleeds a bit more E than the LA7. Now, the Yak can be maneuvered down the same way it used to reign. Oh, the irony.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The one thing that I've come to love the most about the LA7, is that any plane in this game that it can't out turn, it can out run. And any plane that it can't out run, it can out turn.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Stop by the Lavochkin Performance Series on HyperLobby or UBI sometime, Osirisx9. We can have a little fun seeing if the Zero can keep up with the LA7 in the vertical. My server now comes with "Guest's Choice" for the difficulty settings. I'll fly any settings, but totally locked inside of the plane. Either no pit + pad with no externals or icons...or pit with externals, no icons or some variety thereof. My GF2 can't keep up, but mainly, because I'm not interested in the Full Real crowd yet.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The medium to semi-FR flyers are a big cross-section of the community that I feel presents the best training in how to learn the different planes, theirs and my plane's performance limitations and develop tactics, while watching my bogey.

Most Full Real pilots get squashed on those types of servers and many used to and went to Full Real to be able to breathehttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif, but it's far easier to make the transistion to FR, once you've mastered the game's settings, than starting FR and going to medium-semiFR servers.

FR takes a little more patience, but once you already know how to throw the planes in this game around on the edge of blackout, the rest just becomes finding the bogey. I used to fly the dedicated UBI FR server quite a bit.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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crazyivan1970
01-15-2004, 05:06 PM
Hmmm, i find Yak3 is whole alot more dangerous. As far as any La`s go, i`d take 109 over it without a blink http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Most Full Real pilots get squashed on those types of servers and many used to and went to Full Real to be able to breathe, but it's far easier to make the transistion to FR, once you've mastered the game's settings, than starting FR and going to medium-semiFR servers.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Umm, let`s not go that far. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

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Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

SlickStick
01-15-2004, 05:47 PM
crazyivan1970 wrote: "Umm, let`s not go that far.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif"

Shhh, Ivan. I'm getting new FR blood to flow on my server.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

As for 109s, the only one to worry about is the K4 against an LA7. BP_Lixma turned a G2 probably the best I've ever seen on my server, but the G2 couldn't keep up with the LA7.

Not sure which you fly, but I still have yet to meet a 109 pilot that can out turn an LA7 and I've got lots of experience in the vertical with the 3xB20 for those high-flying 109s.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Stop by sometime, Ivan. It's been awhile since I've flown you. Probably back as far as late IL2, when Mutt was flying around, too. it will be fun.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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p1ngu666
01-15-2004, 05:54 PM
yer, the la is on balence probs the best fighter
i dont do too well with it mind :\

Bull_dog_
01-15-2004, 05:59 PM
When I started flying on-line I got toasted by La's regularly so I started to fly them and returned the favor. It didn't take too long and I started to fly less able planes for the challenge and some of my favorites are the P-39, P-47, P-51 and Mig.

Flying a P-47 is really a challenge and recently I got the idea that if I could fly the La like I fly a P-47...what would happen? Invincability happened and I ran up 3-5 kills on a sortie. It is easy to get dumb in the aircraft and forget to turn around when outnumbered...recently I've been getting great enjoyment in wading into a hostile group of bandits to see how many I can get before they get me! They always get me, but often I can take a few out first.

The plane has few faults...maybe its dive speed is about it cause it accelerates fast but really starts shaking at 650km / hr. That is in stark contrast to one of my favorites, the P-47 that has few superior qualities other than a tough damage model. The La is fast, nimble, rolls well, climbs like a squirrel, has great firepower in the 20mmx3 configuration....but it is easy to stop thinking in. It seems to have all the qualities of a light nimble plane as well as a heavily armored brute. It is fun to fly and I have killed many but not in one on one situations...only the Yak 3 seems to be a good La killer...I dont fear La's when I fly a Yak 3. I'm terrible at flying most of the German aircraft so I don't fly them much anymore.

It seems to be the best all around plane for on line fighting I've flown. Some turn tighter, some are better at altitude, a few have more firepower but it is good or great at everything except high speed dives.

I personally don't have an issue with this if this is how the plane really is...I have more issues with a very small list of planes that I don't think are accurately modeled as well as the energy modeling in general.

The La is great for base defense when you're getting swarmed and its really good at challenging those dratted B&Z guys that love to see you struggle for altitude while they bear down on you...you can turn the tables often in an La like you can with a 109K or Dora.

Late in the war, the Luftwaffe pilots were warned against engaging Yak's at low altitude and I'm sure La's were on the scene as well. The same could be said in FB's...at least when the La pilot is using his brain lol

SlickStick
01-15-2004, 06:57 PM
Good points, bulldog. Especially about the LA7's instability at high speed. At about 710km/h, the regular LA7 starts self-destructing. The 3xB20 can go about 20-30km/h faster before the same destruction.

No LA7 can out climb or out dive a K4. The regular LA7 turns a bit better than the 3xB20 and has more trigger time in secs, but the 3xB20 zoom climbs better and those 3-20mms at convergence pack quite a punch.

I fly the LA7 because it most reminds me of my trusty Spitfire MK IX mount from Jane's WWII Fighters. Great turns, good climb and good gun platform. I also regularly fly the P39-Q1, the FW-A9 and the P51. I love to fly on such a variety of servers, planesets and settings that I've been able to spend time in all of the popular birds.

I'm just starting to learn the K4, because I feel that I will be needing it for some future high-flying matches I plan on flying. I've never really cared for the 109 series, except for the F4 or G2, but the K4 is the Climb King. Maybe because I'm a turner first, B and Zer second.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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SlickStick
01-15-2004, 07:03 PM
And please bring your non-LA fearing Yak3 to my server sometime, Bulldog. I'm waiting for the one pilot that can beat my LA7 in the current Yak3. You might be the one who gets a little star next to his name in my Lavochkin Series notebook.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

17 have tried and counting.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

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BBB_Hyperion
01-15-2004, 08:04 PM
What La7 you use SlickStick i guess its the one without 3xb20 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif . Will depend on what alt you try to df with yak3 then and in what speed margin. Several other slight differences also exist but all in all i think this planes are pretty close. Only disadvantage is when the la7 trys to get into slow speed things the Yak can only counter with nice half vertical rolling move. As i am not much of yak3 flyer cant test it out at best performance values but a B&Z like
tactic for the Yak3 should help to stay out of slow speed.

Regards,
Hyperion

SlickStick
01-15-2004, 08:19 PM
Yes, I totally agree, Hyperion. The Yak's roll rate helps allot, and used to be it's best advantage when the Yak3 didn't really lose E.

However, I've found that in sustained turns and zoom loops, the current Yak3 can be run out of energy and the LA handles very well at slow speeds with flaps. And the LA7 rolls better at mid to slower speeds than high speed.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I should have prefaced my previous statement above with if both planes enter with equal energy. But, you're right. The Yak3 can get the better of an LA7 pilot that doesn't use the LA's superior speed and better E retention, to first whittle the Yak down to flopping over with the roll axis only, because they have no speed left to pull the nose around.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

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SlickStick
01-15-2004, 08:22 PM
Oh and yes, I mainly use the LA7, 2 SHVAK version for dogfighting and the 3xB20 for the vertical game and bombers...well, for bombers until I get pissed off at my 20mm peashooters and jump in a 109K4 with MK108 pods and go postal on them.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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kyrule2
01-15-2004, 08:23 PM
La-5 standard ('42) is way too fast at sea-level. It performs as well, and in some cases better than the La-5F ('43). No way did this plane reach 550km/h at sea level, I have never seen any source stating anything even close to this. I posted about this before with quotes from some resources but never got a response from anyone refuting the evidence.

La-5 series takes too much punishment, La-7 has a good DM.

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LeadSpitter_
01-15-2004, 08:24 PM
They take way to much damage, for a wooden aircraft and the fuel gauges do not work at all, theres a reason the yak9u is an all aluminum airframe no wooden parts at all, stress limits, damage.

Thats also the reason why so many russians loved the p40 p39 and p63 stress limits and amount damage, russian aircraft for thier cold weather endurance, low maintainence and manueverability.


the f2 f4 and g2 should not be running circles around the la's under 5000m or mig3s, 1c needs to give them more elevator stick pressure like the las and mig has.

Same with many other aircraft like the 262 yaks p51 p40 lagg and 190A and D"which had the most effective high speed elevator movement but poor low speed effectiveness"

http://www.geocities.com/leadspittersig/LSIG.txt
VIEW MY PAINTSCHEMES HERE (http://www.il2skins.com/?planeidfilter=all&planefamilyfilter=all&screenshotfilter=allskins&countryidfilter=all&authoridfilter=%3ALeadspitter%3A&historicalidfilter=all&Submit=+++Apply+filters++&action=list&ts=1072257400)

[This message was edited by LeadSpitter_ on Thu January 15 2004 at 07:35 PM.]

LW_Cobra
01-15-2004, 09:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BS87:
Ok, so online all i hear about is how hte LA is overmodelled, etc, so i figured i'd create this thread ot see what some of the problems with the Las are, as far as the community is concerned. The only I personally have against it, is that sometimes it seems insanely stable. I've seen them pull incredible manuvers that would make any other plane stall, but they do it with ease. But i cant really say that is wrong, because i have no idea how the plane was in real life.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I try to fly everything in FB. I loved the LA5FN in IL2 and it was my aircraft of choice for that game. I could hardly wait for FB and the addition of the LA7, now I don't fly it at all as it does seem to be the easiest airplane to manuever and I want to be a little challenged.

My one concern for the LA7 is it's ability to not bleed energy whereas most other a/c in the sim bleed energy twice as fast. I guess I would have to look at the specific's between the LA7 and lets say the P51 taking into account horsepower, weight, wing surface and see if what the LA7 does makes sense. Something just seems a little wrong about it. I dunno.

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BBB_Hyperion
01-16-2004, 03:55 AM
The last patch correct at least some turning irregularities .

Here some real Data for Turntimes
http://www.btinternet.com/~fulltilt/Perform.html

Regards,
Hyperion

HansKnappstick
01-16-2004, 04:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Osirisx9:
I've put in close to 100hrs flying the zero within the last two weeks and learned allot of its secrets and learned to fly it fast and hard.
Osiris_X9<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

oh... that's over 7 hours every day.

Man I wish I had no job and no family and could concentrate on my favorite plane in my favorite flight sim as much...

Correction. I do not wish that. I am happy after just an hour or so on the average, and happy to know there are other things in life to do.

SlickStick
01-16-2004, 07:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BBB_Hyperion:
The last patch correct at least some turning irregularities .

Here some real Data for Turntimes
http://www.btinternet.com/~fulltilt/Perform.html

Regards,
Hyperion<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cool link, Hyperion. I'll have to check that site out a little closer at home later.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

I haven't spent much time in anything older than the LA5FN, so I'll have to take the others for a spin, but the LA5FN still performs very close to an LA7.

I feel that the damage model in the LA7 is quite balanced and realistic. From my experience in the FB LA7, about 65-75% of the hits to the tail result in lost elevator or rudder controls; the engine can be damaged in a couple of ways and it doesn't take a whole lot to damage an LA7's engine; the fue****e can take some damage from behind the pilot to the tail, but too close forward and the tank goes boom or too close to the tail and controls go boom; since the fuel tank is in the fuselage, the wings can take quite a bit of punishment as you see lots of holes going all the way through.

She'll fly with wing damage, but like most planes in FB, if a wing gets peppered, that wing starts stalling at a much higher speed than the other. The pit protection is pretty good, because if I've been PK'd in the LA7 more than a dozen times over the last 10 months or so, I would be surprised.

As for the challenging part, I feel it's a challenge to be able to fly the LA7 in all situations, on all servers, high, low, turning, gunnery, it does it all. I just like to see how good it really is, which is why I've run the LPS for the past two years. Beating all of the best LA7 pilots in the game is also fun as hell trying to do.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The last three times in a game, where I read someone writing in the chat that the LA7 was an overmodelled, noob plane that takes no skill to fly, one was in an I-153, the other was in a K4 cruising around at 3-5km, swooping engaged pilots and the last one was in the A9 before the damage model was fixed.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The challenge is in how you look at the plane. If everybody thinks it's the best, the challenge for me is finding the pilots who can bring it down with the other planes.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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KGr.HH-Sunburst
01-16-2004, 07:56 AM
im flying 109's most of the time(G14,G6/AS)and i have no problem downing La7s,yak3 but when u loose your E and alt ur in trouble big time
in FB the la7 outturns outclimbs and has better acceleration than the 109 but it al depends on the pilot.

yesterday i was flying online on TX server and i was flying my G14 at 2k (bit to low) and on my 11clock at 1500m there was a Yak9U i had a bit of alt advantage so i engaged we did a few head ons
but no go so he was trying to force me in a turn fight down low,but i did follow him (on his 6 from 800m ) for some time and he tried to outturn me but i didnt follow him and climbed a bit up to hold my advantage and he was still turning so i went down with a big E adv. and turned inside him cus he was already in a low speed turn so that gave me that high angle 1 sec deflection shot wich was all i needed (credit for my good aim) so it doesnt matter what plane u fly there r always ways to down ur opponent (cant outturn them outsmart them) same goes for the La7s

just my 2cents

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SlickStick
01-16-2004, 09:29 AM
This is true, but in a situation where the LA7 dictates the parameters of the fight, it's just a matter of time with any plane in this game. Of course, that's my direct experience, your mileage may vary.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

In the case, where the higher flying K4 dictates the fight, patience and perseverance is needed by the LA7 pilot to avoid the dive attacks and eventually get him to overcommit on one, by slowly maneuvering and luring him into going just a bit lower than he wanted to.

That's when the smart LA7 pilot fakes the dodge of the B and Z attack, does a quick split S and catches the 109 at the bottom or beginning of their zoom climb and gets some damage or a kill in before they climb away.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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Osirisx9
01-16-2004, 10:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HansKnappstick:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Osirisx9:
I've put in close to 100hrs flying the zero within the last two weeks and learned allot of its secrets and learned to fly it fast and hard.
Osiris_X9<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

oh... that's over 7 hours every day.

Man I wish I had no job and no family and could concentrate on my favorite plane in my favorite flight sim as much...

Correction. I do not wish that. I am happy after just an hour or so on the average, and happy to know there are other things in life to do.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hanskappstick
You assume that I dont have a Job. I have two daughters and a sexy caribean wife who is my best friend and gets on my nervs from time to time. But the good thing about my Job is that I get thrirty vacation days, 8 personal and 30 sick days per year. I have a real good job thats pays me enough to save and start a business flying real airplanes in the very near future. Oh and Yes La-7s are real easy to take down with a zero, especially if the pilot is not using his/her head. If the pilot is smart it takes about five minutes longer to kill them if his buddies are not around to help him.

Osiris_X9

robban75
01-16-2004, 11:23 AM
The La-7 is only 26 seconds faster than the Zero to 5000m. 4:11 vs 4:37. I find it hard to believe that the Zero was such a stellar climber. But I could be wrong!http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

JG26Red
01-16-2004, 11:49 AM
LA7s are still my biggest problem while flying A9s and D9s... the Yak 3 is tuff too, but not as much a problem as LA, its a good plane, with good pilot will succed easily...

ot - zero lol, i had somebody the other night chase my D9 all the way up to 6k lol, he didnt lose much on me, i had 100per at 240kph the entire time...

ucanfly
01-16-2004, 12:15 PM
The most incredulous features of the LA7 for me is how little energy it loses in a turn and yet can sustaion significant damage. COupled with its phenomenal acceleration and climb, and good speed it makes it a very deadly opponent for any TnBer and even a BnZer that is not travelling close to Warp speed.

SlickStick
01-16-2004, 02:10 PM
Osiris, the Zero's climb will never come into play. The Zero is too slow flat out and in a dive for the LA7 and I will surely power loop you out of energy in no time.

But, don't take my word for it, stop on by.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I'll be online tonight from 8PM EST until the cows come home.

Friday's my main night to fly. Wife and kids go out and I can smoke and curse and drink beer until I fall asleep.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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SlickStick
01-16-2004, 02:11 PM
Oh, crap. I just quit smoking. Oh well, extra beer then.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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JG26Red
01-16-2004, 02:25 PM
slick, you seem to really like the LA7, how do you think it will fair against Spits, TA152 and even the DO335?

LilHorse
01-16-2004, 02:57 PM
First, I have no complaints against the La's. I do my damnedest to shoot 'em down and I get shot down by plenty of 'em.

What I don't get is how this thread has turned into another self-congratulatory SlickStick/ La masturbation-athon. How tedious. Feck all that gamer "Bring it on! I've got tootally mad skills, dyude!" nonsense. Who wouldn't be good in a La-5/7? "Oh, but dyude I'm tootally the best!" Yah, right.

And none of that "why don't you come on my 1v1 server and I'll show you!". 1v1 is jive. Besides I'm sure you'd hack me out of the sky. Really I'm sure you would. Why doncha come on VEF and see how fast you get lost? LOL! Or persue that bandit "near to blackout" and see how quickly his wingy blasts you out of the sky. Nothing like an egomaniac with target fixation. LOL!

So are you angling for RBJ's spot around here? You might have a shot. I hear he's playing the Catskills circuit these days.

Yockbo
01-16-2004, 03:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LilHorse:
First, I have no complaints against the La's. I do my damnedest to shoot 'em down and I get shot down by plenty of 'em.

What I don't get is how this thread has turned into another self-congratulatory SlickStick/ La masturbation-athon. How tedious. Feck all that gamer "Bring it on! I've got tootally mad skills, dyude!" nonsense. Who wouldn't be good in a La-5/7? "Oh, but dyude I'm tootally the best!" Yah, right.

And none of that "why don't you come on my 1v1 server and I'll show you!". 1v1 is jive. Besides I'm sure you'd hack me out of the sky. Really I'm sure you would. Why doncha come on VEF and see how fast you get lost? LOL! Or persue that bandit "near to blackout" and see how quickly his wingy blasts you out of the sky. Nothing like an egomaniac with target fixation. LOL!

So are you angling for RBJ's spot around here? You might have a shot. I hear he's playing the Catskills circuit these days.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bravo, Dyude! LOL...

SlickStick
01-16-2004, 04:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG26Red:
slick, you seem to really like the LA7, how do you think it will fair against Spits, TA152 and even the DO335?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't focus on the real life attributes, I'm more concerned about in-game performance and the balance of the available planes.

I'll have to see how those planes do once they've been brought in.

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JG26Red
01-16-2004, 04:25 PM
see what u mean, figure both will be faster than LA, but not sure of the turning aspects... too bad DO didnt get any real combat flights to see what it had, all the stuff i have read says it was fastest prop fighter in WW2, and pilot reports are that it wasnt a bad turner other... nor was it a hard target, thing is a monster.. lol

SlickStick
01-16-2004, 04:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LilHorse:
First, I have no complaints against the La's. I do my damnedest to shoot 'em down and I get shot down by plenty of 'em.

What I don't get is how this thread has turned into another self-congratulatory SlickStick/ La masturbation-athon. How tedious. Feck all that gamer "Bring it on! I've got tootally mad skills, dyude!" nonsense. Who wouldn't be good in a La-5/7? "Oh, but dyude I'm tootally the best!" Yah, right.

And none of that "why don't you come on my 1v1 server and I'll show you!". 1v1 is jive. Besides I'm sure you'd hack me out of the sky. Really I'm sure you would. Why doncha come on VEF and see how fast you get lost? LOL! Or persue that bandit "near to blackout" and see how quickly his wingy blasts you out of the sky. Nothing like an egomaniac with target fixation. LOL!

So are you angling for RBJ's spot around here? You might have a shot. I hear he's playing the Catskills circuit these days.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whatsamatter LilHorse? Don't like a little friendly trash-talk to incite some competition? Wah, Momma. You're like the Squad whiners I wax everyday at UBI as Pilot_XT.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Second, my views on the LA7 are the counter to any whiners in the thread who think it over-modelled. Any player on this forum who reads what I write about the LA7 needs to take into account a few things:

1. I've been flying the LA Series since day 1.

2. I speak from personal experience and from the results of hundreds of 1 vs 1 flights on HyperLobby and UBI, attempting to seek out the best pilots in any other plane or the LA7.

3. Out of those hundreds, I've faced pretty much the best in each plane....K4, FW-A9, Yak3, P39, G2 and the easily-destroyed Japanese birds.

4. I've only lost to 1 pilot in those matches.

5. I speak of the LA7's performance against the planes in the game, not real life, and how they measure against each other.

6. This is my schtick. Attempting to prove that I'm the best LA7 pilot to fly this game.

If it sounds like bragging, oh well. I play one game and 95% of my online time is spent playing it. I love the game and will do anything to defend it's honor.

As for my technical qualifications, I've been an Electronics Engineer in the Defense Industry for 18 years. The bulk of my experience has been component-level troubleshooting of software, hardware and firmware of Telemetry, Guidance and Control Electronic Systems for cruise missles, satellites, tactical communication systems, targetting systems and a variety of other analog/digital electronics and power supplies. Mostly proofing new designs and performing failure analysis on field returns.

I know how to get to the root cause of a failure and I know how to analyze this game and any anomalies and troubleshoot it down to the variable that's causing it.

I am sorry that you mistake my attempts to share that knowledge and my want to fly against the best this game has to offer as anything other than that.

"Fight Hard, Win With Honor, Die With Dignity."

I'm a gracious host that enjoys a high-level of competition. Nothing more. I will endeavor in the future to word things a little less egocentrically.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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TX-Zen
01-16-2004, 04:34 PM
My main gripe about the LA7 is the same gripe I had with the Yak3, the LA5 and the Yak9k back in the old days.

People get in the best plane in the game, rack up high scores and think they're god's gift to flight sims lol. When I get in one I score 3-5 times as many kills in it as I do in the D9...the nature of the game itself favors TnB and it should be obvious to anyone that planes like the LA7 and Yak3 are going to do better than the BnZ planes. No big deal though, such is life.

Other than that, I think the LA7 tends to retain it's E slightly well, but it's nothing to complain about. I think it's high altitude performance is overmodelled...at 8-10k the thing seems to turn too well. By turning I mean those shallow E fighting turns used to gain advantage, the LA7 probably performs too well in that area. Again nothing to complain about, you just have to work that much harder.

I think it's well presented in the game. Definately a plane that you don't want to end up being in it's zone if you flying against it and one that you must take care to fight against. It could be tweaked but it's far from uber fortunately and is on par with most planes in the game...avoid it's strong areas, keep him in his weak areas and you'll be alright.

As for being a noob plane, by default it is ofcourse. It's easy to fly, easy to score in and is a good plane to learn the game with. Nothing wrong with that and no discredit to the professional LA7 jocks out there either because in their hands, the plane is just downright nasty, as it should be.

S~

TX-Zen
Black 6
TX-Squadron CO
http://www.txsquadron.com
clyndes@hotmail.com (IM Only)
TX-OC3 Server 209.163.147.69:21000
http://www.txsquadron.com/library/20031218144359_Zensig2.jpg (http://www.txsquadron.com)

SlickStick
01-16-2004, 04:45 PM
Good post, Zen. Tis' possible it retains a bit more E than it should, but I agree as well, it's well represented in the game and is not an unbeatable UFO. OK, it does some wicked stuff, but how far off are ALL the planes from real life?

We could never do in real life what we make these planes do online. I think the overall balance in the game is quite good now, too. Of course, there may be some specific year match-ups that have issues with overmodelling, but as compared to it's class, the LA7 seems pretty close to it's historical ranking in real life against the same planes.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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FuryFighter
01-16-2004, 06:05 PM
hehe no offense to La-7 drivers.. but I gave that plane up after it took off without me even pulling up lol. But yeah, I agree it seems to be able to turn at really high speed and keep flying consistently. I would hate to be in one in real life... the way they turn would liquify the pilot hehe hehe. I found the P-47 is fairly good against them... I had one outclimbing an La in one server... and outpacing, the La broke off so I pulled in behind and got a good burst into him.... or at him... dunno if I hit lol.. I can't hit the broadsides of a battle ship hehe.

My main problem with the La7 mainly the 3xB20 is the fact that theres always so many of them.... But... if I find a server with the 262 enabled, I do my best to damage 1 or 2 La's as payback for the times they've roasted me everywhere else hehehehe....

Good pilots in La's are bad news... but then... good pilots in any plane are bad news.

http://www.angelfire.com/space2/messerschmitt262/sig_test.jpg

VW-IceFire
01-16-2004, 06:43 PM
Only gripe I have with the plane is that it doesn't seem to loose energy much. At least not compaired to the other aircraft I fly...I really like the La's but I don't really feel inclined to fly them because there are times when the manuvers they can pull and keep pulling just seem so out of place.

In one engagement on the TX server two of us (a Bf 109G-10 I think) and my FW190D-9 engaged a single La-7 for several minutes. No matter what we did (I did several zoom attacks and then we spiraled down from 4000 meters to less that 500 meters) we couldn't try and follow the La-7 in any manuver. By the time I was in a zoom position and about to open fire he'd roll and bank as hard as he could...which is a fantastically small turn circle. Meanwhile my 500kph attack run was for nought. We never did get the guy since four more Red's showed up and we pulled back. The only thing you can do in a Dora 9 effectively is escape...no La-7 can follow you in a shallow dive with full throttle.

I admit the guy was good...but even with two other experience pilots in their prefered mounts (at least for the Luftwaffe anyways) it was still REALLY tough for us to even try and think about placing the La-7 in our crosshairs.

- IceFire
http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/spit-sig.jpg

BfHeFwMe
01-16-2004, 07:09 PM
I fly them every once in a while and they seem OK, there's nothing super about them. They're a good overall plane as they should be and were. I see the energy retention as a handicap thats easily exploited. They also have a weak roll at higher speeds and also while pulling a G loading at low speeds. One on one I consider my odds equal to better in any 109.

I'll beat it with altitude or take it on the deck and slow the fight down to around 240, no La can turn inside or out roll a 109 that slow. He's got to break out or overshoot, and it's shoot'n time for me. I like to sucker him down into a turn circle and chop throttle, no time flat I'm inside the circle and behind. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

BS87
01-16-2004, 07:40 PM
Like i said. the only thing i might suspect wrong with it is when they see you coming, and pull on the stick so hard any plane owuld stall out instantly, but they are fine and pull an incredibly tight turn without flaps.

As for Slickstick... I want to see how you fly in other planes (109, 190, p51, p47,etc) I know your good in the La7, but no offense, that plane is ALOT easier to fly than 90% of the planes in FB. Focusing on one plane isnt good. Everytime i think i have it hard in my 190, I fly a P47 for a few days. Hats off to you jug pilots.

SlickStick
01-16-2004, 08:36 PM
BS87 wrote: "As for Slickstick... I want to see how you fly in other planes (109, 190, p51, p47,etc)"

I always give my guests the option of me flying the plane my adversary is having trouble downing my LA7 in afterwards. Some insist on it, hehe. Of course, I don't count it towards the statistics, but if they're one of the Aces, I know what they'll be able to do in that LA7 and I then switch to attempting to exploit the LA7's weaknesses, depending on the strengths of the plane I'm flying.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I've certainly been able to give them a run for their money or best most of them in their own planes as well. At least, that's been the series so far, but I have a good amount of time in other planes.

I love the P39Q1, FW-A5, A9 and the good turning 109s like the F4 and G2. Speaking of the G2, I've got like 50 skins from IL2 net cache, when I first fell in love with that bird. Nicest looking 109 for me.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I like to provide the server because that way, I not only get the controlling variables of my host, max lag settings, cable connection, PC performance and map, it provides a good platform to measure mine and the LA7's performance level.

I also don't publish results because my whole Lavochkin thing is not about anything but my fun in flying this game and digging an experience that I wish my Dad, who was a real pilot and used to be heavily into the Ham Radio scene, was still alive to be a part of.

He was a machinist, A & P Mechanic, as well as an Instructor at an aircraft mechanic's school. He would've so dug talking on RW while flying WWII fighter planes.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

He was an also an avid modeler and to this day, he died in 1993, you can find his models at the eateries, airports and local bars surrounding just about every small airport in NJ. WWII planes being the specialty.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I find the P47D sluggish, but at speed all the P47s and P51s do the job nicely, but they cannot slow down for an instant with an LA anywhere within 1KM of them or the LA7's acceleration will overtake them. I strictly fly in the vertical with all American and LW planes.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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ucanfly
01-16-2004, 09:41 PM
I forgot my other gripe about LA7 is that it makes the introduction of the LA9 a moot point and unnecessary, since it already takes more damage than a lot of all metal planes and seems to take hi gs as well. Why would Russia bother with a LA9 if the LA7 performed like that in reality?

robban75
01-16-2004, 09:52 PM
Their energy retention is amazing and should perhaps fit better on a real energy fighter such as the D-9 or P-51. And its 180 deg/sec rollrate is really annoying. Although the La-7 uses the same shape and size of airfoils as the La-5FN its highspeed agility is more than twice as good. Doesn't seem realistic to me. On the rollrate issue I thought the 190 was the only prop that could roll that fast. Apart from the 30m/sec climbrate the La-7 was probably more realistic prepatch.

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

SlickStick
01-16-2004, 10:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by robban75:
Their energy retention is amazing and should perhaps fit better on a real energy fighter such as the D-9 or P-51. And its 180 deg/sec rollrate is really annoying. Although the La-7 uses the same shape and size of airfoils as the La-5FN its highspeed agility is more than twice as good. Doesn't seem realistic to me. On the rollrate issue I thought the 190 was the only prop that could roll that fast. Apart from the 30m/sec climbrate the La-7 was probably more realistic prepatch.

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, robban, now you're catching on.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif If it isn't what it should be, it should be fixed, but the LA series has always been near the pinnacle of the game's best and has only really suffered in one patch in IL2 I remember and one in FB.

Even taking into account the things that may be a bit better than they should be, we can certainly agree that it's not so far ahead of the pack that it's unmanageable. However, a veteran IL2/FB pilot could always make that plane do some wonderous maneuvers.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I wonder about a few parameters of other planes like the K4's climb or the new and improved P39 or even just before last patch what the heck was up with the A9? LOL, u don't see many of those online these days, Yak3s either really, but I don't go to the trouble of getting numbers and climb times and all, because that stuff is only good for studying, but the real education comes from flying online.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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BfHeFwMe
01-17-2004, 09:11 PM
Rock, paper, scissors as the game sit's now. There's isn't one that something else can't kill quickly.

Stalker58
01-18-2004, 04:53 AM
In real life the La7 were only slightly better then La5FN (refined airlow and little lighter) but in FB it's like much better and differnet bird.

Altitude, speed, manoeuvre and.... CRASH!

Lazy_312
01-18-2004, 05:15 AM
"Although the La-7 uses the same shape and size of airfoils as the La-5FN.."

Not true.

From national test of improved La-5FN (actually La-7 prototype):

"Control of the ailerons and elevator is much easier and is in need of no further modifications."

So there should be a difference.

robban75
01-18-2004, 09:37 AM
Granted there was a small difference in the controls. But compare the La-5FN to the La-7 in-game and you'll see that the La-7 is ALOT easier to manouver, especially at high speeds, not to mention the 180 deg/sec rollrate.

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

SlickStick
01-18-2004, 10:07 AM
Yes, but that roll quickly diminishes at higher speeds. The LA7 is only good in the roll at slow to medium speeds. 180? a second seems awfully fast? What does the FW roll at? I've always felt the roll of the LA was modeled well, but never actually made measurements.

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johann_thor
01-18-2004, 10:17 AM
LA's suck .... no need to be afraid of them

BS87
01-18-2004, 10:44 AM
I persoanaly woudlnt take any tests by russia or any of the major powers seriously, unless they were done a few years after the war. There is always the great chance that they will be biased. I mean, what is the VVS going to say? "We spent money building this new increible La7!.... but it is only slighty better then the plane we already had.." I would think they say it was a major improvement. Anyway, i guess my point was, i dont think the La7 is UBER, its just that they piss me off sometimes. Its just that i'll dive on one in my A5, and they will turn so incredibly tight, and get right on my 6 within seconds and try to follow me. Usually they cant, but on rare occasions when i'm going less than 550 IAS, they have caught up, which should not happen if they just pulled such a tight turn. Usually when i get shot down by them, its my own stupidity, thats all. Anwyay, goo to hear you fly other plans stick, i was getting the impression that you fly only the La7.

tttiger
01-18-2004, 11:45 AM
"main grip"?????

What the heck is a "main grip"???

I assume you mean "gripe." Most of your posts aren't any better.

There ought to be a literacy test for people who start threads.

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

GoodKn1ght
01-18-2004, 11:56 AM
you spelled "tiger" wrong. there should be only one "t" instead of three.

"Friends don't let friends fly arcade"

Bamatt
01-18-2004, 12:00 PM
I would have to say the way it maintains speeds in a horizontal turn. Even when I am in a G2 turning with an La, I can almost get the guns on him at the start of the turn, then his raw power just brings him up on my butt, and of course, I cant out run the darn thing.

Jaws2002
01-18-2004, 12:33 PM
This is just ridiculous. The bloody Lame 7 makes 360 degrees. in 14 seconds and if you add flap and a bit of trim you can turn in 12 sec.
I know it was a good fighter, but don't you think this is too much?
This is one of those treads that is here just to pi$$ off everyone. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

[This message was edited by Jaws2002 on Sun January 18 2004 at 01:17 PM.]