PDA

View Full Version : Guns jamming?



HeinzBar
07-16-2004, 10:41 AM
S!,
This topic was brought up last night while on comms w/some of my mates. From my reading, I recall that if a pilot held the trigger down too long, the possibility of guns jamming became an issue. This doesn't occur in FB. An example of this in RL was the B model of the p51. It was a known fact that the B model's .50s would jam when fired during hi-G moves. This isn't represented in FB. Can we expect some modification in the future to model gun jamming? The only instance that I can remember the guns jamming is when my plane has taken some hits.

HB

http://www.jagdverband44.com/JV44Banner400x75.jpg

HeinzBar
07-16-2004, 10:41 AM
S!,
This topic was brought up last night while on comms w/some of my mates. From my reading, I recall that if a pilot held the trigger down too long, the possibility of guns jamming became an issue. This doesn't occur in FB. An example of this in RL was the B model of the p51. It was a known fact that the B model's .50s would jam when fired during hi-G moves. This isn't represented in FB. Can we expect some modification in the future to model gun jamming? The only instance that I can remember the guns jamming is when my plane has taken some hits.

HB

http://www.jagdverband44.com/JV44Banner400x75.jpg

WB_Outlaw
07-16-2004, 11:49 AM
In addition to gun overheating and belt breakages, I'd also like to see wing/engine fires cook off the round in the chamber and cause the weapon to fire uncontrollably ala "Hell In The Heavens" (A good read BTW). That would be cool.

-Outlaw.

xTHRUDx
07-16-2004, 11:54 AM
a difficulty setting of how often a random failure occurs might be cool

Choctaw111
07-16-2004, 01:01 PM
Having one round cook of in the chamber would not cause a runnanway gun unless the firing linkage was damaged and kept in the firing position...or if some components were damaged on the gun itself. I have seen runnaway guns before and it is usually caused by worn gun components such as the sear that links the trigger to the bolt. But in the American 50 Cal all of these parts were adjustable to compensate for the parts wearing out. It seems that there is nothing that Browning didn't think about when he designed this gun. Absolutetly amazing. For an example there is a little nub that you have to line up with a hole in the side of the reciever to unscrew the barrel. once you do this you can then remove the bolt(and what a big bolt it is, big and rectangular just like the outside of the reciever) by depressing two lever at the same time to remove the back that the spade hadle grips are atatched to when not mounted in aircraft. Once this is done you have to remove the spring. You have to be very careful that the bolt is in the foward position because you can take the back plate off while that bolt is locked to the rear and then the spring is exposed in the compressed postion. That spring has enogh force to put the spring and spring guide right into a concrete wall. The problem with this is that you cannot get the back plate on without a lot of effort try to puch the bolt back forward about a half an inch while trying to keep out the way if the spring lets loose wich is only secured to the inside of a reviever by a small pin. After that is done you are free to adjust the timing and trigger sear positions using a little wheel for each that travels up and down on a threaded bolt. And there you have it folks. I did not mean to get this in depth with you. I wish I had some pictures of me taking a 50 apart. But As i said earlier a round cooking off in the chamber will not cause a runnaway gun.

VW-IceFire
07-16-2004, 03:07 PM
They don't model the guns jamming except for battle damage.

More realistic stuff relating to the guns on the aircraft would include:

- prolonged firing would cause the barrels to melt (it could happen) and the gun to jam
- high G manuvers in some aircraft (the P-51B/C with the guns on the slant) would cause guns to jam
- ammo belts could explode inside of the wing if hit in certain areas

Could be interesting http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

Bearcat99
07-16-2004, 04:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
They don't model the guns jamming except for battle damage.

More realistic stuff relating to the guns on the aircraft would include:

- prolonged firing would cause the barrels to melt (it could happen) and the gun to jam
- high G manuvers in some aircraft (the P-51B/C with the guns on the slant) would cause guns to jam
- ammo belts could explode inside of the wing if hit in certain areas
Could be interesting http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was just reading about the melting barrels last night. I guess the randomness of the guns jamming would be interesting to model. It didnt happen all the time bt enough for pilots to think twice before firing in high g maneuvers.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://tuskegeeairmen.org/airmen/who.html)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
UDQMG (http://www.uberdemon.com/index2.html) | HYPERLOBBY (http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz/) | Sturmovik Essentials (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=51910959) | MUDMOVERS (http://magnum-pc.netfirms.com/mudmovers/index.htm)

IMMERSION BABY!!

WB_Outlaw
07-17-2004, 01:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Choctaw111:
Having one round cook of in the chamber would not cause a runnanway gun unless the firing linkage was damaged and kept in the firing position...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the info Choctaw. That guy's F4U was shot to hell and burning like mad so there was plenty of damage to cause runaway guns. Of course, once all 3 fell out of the wing he didn't have to worry about them anymore.

-Outlaw.

VVS-Manuc
07-17-2004, 01:50 AM
Do you really expect, that these fine details will be simulated in FB while the so called "complex engine management" is far from beeing "complex" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

LeadSpitter_
07-17-2004, 06:24 PM
108 cannon was known for jamming, so were .50 cal.

It would be very interesting the .303 could not fire in bursts over 15 seconds or the barrels would melt.

I hope BOB adds this into the game with an option to turn it off so everyones happy.

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif

ImpStarDuece
07-17-2004, 06:55 PM
Personally i'd like to see guns jamming if fired in negative or very high positive G manouvers.

Historically jams were quite frequent in aircraft like the early P-51s (b/c). They would often come back with one, two or even three guns jammed because of the poor gun alignment.

Flying Bullet Magnet... Catching Lead Since 2002

"There's no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks!"

"War is just an extension of politics carried out by other means" von Clauswitz.

Lateralus_17SS
07-17-2004, 08:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
108 cannon was known for jamming, so were .50 cal.

It would be very interesting the .303 could not fire in bursts over 15 seconds or the barrels would melt.

I hope BOB adds this into the game with an option to turn it off so everyones happy.

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If the Spitfire MkIb makes it into the game, I surely hope this is modelled else no one will want to fly the Mk1a.

The b model had four early model Hispano 20mm cannon instead of the eight Browning .303s, but the pilots hated them because they jammed so often. It was rare when a pilot got a kill with all four guns, because at least one would always jam, if not all four (!).

ImpStarDuece
07-17-2004, 09:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lateralus_17SS:

If the Spitfire MkIb makes it into the game, I surely hope this is modelled else no one will want to fly the Mk1a.

The b model had four early model Hispano 20mm cannon instead of the eight Browning .303s, but the pilots hated them because they jammed so often. It was rare when a pilot got a kill with all four guns, because at least one would always jam, if not all four (!).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually the Spit 1b only ever had 2 Hispanos mounted on it, there was initially some question if the wing could take the force of the recoil (which was obiviously resovled later as the one mock up of the Spit IV had 3 Hispanos mounted on each wing!!).

The initial 1b's had just 2 20mm but later 1b's had the definitive 2 20mms and 4 .303s. Only 30 1bs were produced.

Later on the Spit IIb revised the feed and ejection mechanism on the Hispano as well as mounting the cannon on its side, resulting in the typical teardrop shaped bulge seen on all following Spitfires.

Flying Bullet Magnet... Catching Lead Since 2002

"There's no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks!"

"War is just an extension of politics carried out by other means" von Clauswitz.