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View Full Version : Haven & Serenia Are The Prison Ages ??



ZHorkmeister
08-04-2004, 08:37 PM
Been reading more GOOP on MYST IV .... so, I'm to believe the planets Haven & Serenia are in fact the two prison ages Sirrus & Achenar are residing in?? Given the fact MYST IV centers around Sirrus & Achenar ... the Time magazine article mentioned Haven & Serenia .... I'm now assuming those two places are in fact the prison ages.... BUT ......

HOW does one " imprison " if thou art a powerful D'Ni book writer like Atrus ?? How are " prison " ages written ?? What does one place in a prison age, exactly ?? If Atrus wrote the infamous " Red " & " Blue " books, then did he infact NAME the ages Haven & Serenia?? Did he " fill " the prison ages with all manner of life, beauty, and natural resources from which Sirrus & Achenar have lived peacefully within for the last 40 or so years ??

I wonder ..... and while I'm at it ... I got ANOTHER BUGGER of a question I've been wondering about..... but that's another topic ....

Any thoughts about " prison " ages ?? IS Haven & Serenia our prison ages ??

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ZH http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ZHorkmeister
08-04-2004, 08:37 PM
Been reading more GOOP on MYST IV .... so, I'm to believe the planets Haven & Serenia are in fact the two prison ages Sirrus & Achenar are residing in?? Given the fact MYST IV centers around Sirrus & Achenar ... the Time magazine article mentioned Haven & Serenia .... I'm now assuming those two places are in fact the prison ages.... BUT ......

HOW does one " imprison " if thou art a powerful D'Ni book writer like Atrus ?? How are " prison " ages written ?? What does one place in a prison age, exactly ?? If Atrus wrote the infamous " Red " & " Blue " books, then did he infact NAME the ages Haven & Serenia?? Did he " fill " the prison ages with all manner of life, beauty, and natural resources from which Sirrus & Achenar have lived peacefully within for the last 40 or so years ??

I wonder ..... and while I'm at it ... I got ANOTHER BUGGER of a question I've been wondering about..... but that's another topic ....

Any thoughts about " prison " ages ?? IS Haven & Serenia our prison ages ??

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ZH http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

matt myat
08-05-2004, 05:13 AM
Very true ZH.

I think the red and blue prison books Atrus wrote are just ages with no way out (no linking books) intended to trap unwary and greedy explorers (his own sons!).

Would he make them pleasant? barely hospitable perhaps http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif - i think looks may be decieving http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

If these are the prison ages, perhaps the pleasant names of Haven and Serenia (read serene) were chosen by Atrus to serve this aluring purpose?

JustBrett
08-05-2004, 07:00 AM
ZH, as Matt said, a prison Age is just an ordinary Age that doesn't have a linking Book that the prisoner can use to return. That's how the D'ni used to imprison people, as explained in the Book of Ti'ana. Of course, it is possible for someone to link to that Age with a return Book in his pocket and free the prisoner.

Haven is most certainly Achenar's prison Age. But, I doubt that Serenia is Sirrus's prison. I don't think that Atrus would knowingly use an inhabited Age as a prison, because he wouldn't want to inflict a possible criminal on innocent people. I think Ubi is keeping Sirrus's Age a secret for now, saving the surprise for us.

Either that, or we don't get to see Sirrus's prison at all. Maybe Sirrus escapes his prison at the start of the game, grabs Yeesha and a linking Book, and goes to Haven to join Achenar. That might explain the scene in the trailer where we see the brothers fighting each other in Haven.

Or, maybe BOTH the R&B Books link to Haven, but the locations are so far apart that Atrus didn't think two prisoners would ever meet.

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Hazhar2
08-05-2004, 08:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I doubt that Serenia is Sirrus's prison. I don't think that Atrus would knowingly use an inhabited Age as a prison, because he wouldn't want to inflict a possible criminal on innocent people. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're assuming that the buildings seen on Serenia are currently inhabited, which from the looks of them is unlikely - they're more like ruins. I think its more likely that although there were people living there at one time, by the time Atrus wrote the descriptive book they were long gone, meaning he could use the age to imprison anyone - although it is entirely possible that the ages were not originally intended as prisons, Atrus just realized they could be used for that after he had explored them.

JustBrett
08-06-2004, 06:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hazhar2:
You're assuming that the buildings seen on Serenia are currently inhabited,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, I am, because the E3 trailer shows us one of the inhabitants -- Anya, one of the six Sisters of the Temple. Also, on the new Revelation site, take a look at the character profile for Yeesha. There's a sound clip where she tells us that Atrus took her there for a visit (and I DOUBT they went to visit Sirrus http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif). Serenia is probably where Yeesha got her necklace, since Anya is wearing a similar one. Thus, Serenia is most likely NOT a prison Age.

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Srikandi
08-06-2004, 04:22 PM
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that Sirrus's age hasn't been shown to us AT ALL yet (though there's a very fleeting image in the little Sirrus video on the website that MIGHT be in his Age...) They want to keep some surprises, which is a good thing. Sort of a pity that they've shown us as much of Serenia as they now have, though seeing how pretty it is it's not surprising that they want to show it off!

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Eat_My_Shortz
08-06-2004, 09:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Sort of a pity that they've shown us as much of Serenia as they now have<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
How do you know thats much of serenia? I'd say its much larger!

EDIT: Ooh look at the Serenia wallpaper. It says "Serenia: Main Age". Maybe it will be like Myst Island and J'nanin - you link from Serenia and that contains the other ages??? (But why are the red and blue books on Tomahna then?)
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[This message was edited by Eat_My_Shortz on Fri August 06 2004 at 08:13 PM.]

Mysthints
08-07-2004, 06:34 AM
Not to sound negative about M4 at all, but I really don't get the "Prison Age" thing. True, a prison Age was just an Age the D'ni used to trap someone there, with no linking book out. But remember the brothers trapped Atrus on K'veer before they started plundering and used the two books. They could've easily taken a linking book back to Myst with them--Atrus didn't force them into the books. And if you "lose" Myst, you see the books worked just as the prison book in Riven. You link in, you're stuck. Somebody else links in, you're free. The only thing I can figure out is they were they just somehow set free from another set of prison books, and possibly accessed the two Ages we see featured in Myst IV. Any thoughts?

Eat_My_Shortz
08-07-2004, 07:00 AM
The official explanation for this is that Sirrus and Achenar were very complacent, and the only ages they had ever gone to had a Myst book. So they didn't really think about it.
But if you were going to a wierd age your father had told you not to go to, you might want to be a little wary! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I agree.

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JustBrett
08-07-2004, 08:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mysthints:
But remember the brothers _trapped Atrus on K'veer _before__ they started plundering and used the two books. They could've easily taken a linking book back to Myst with them--Atrus didn't force them into the books.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think you've jumped to a conclusion. The brothers plundered the other Ages and burned the library before Atrus was trapped. They had been exploiting the other Ages for some years before the events of Myst, and Atrus's hologram message in the forechamber makes it clear that he knew about the burning before he went to K'veer.

But, when did they enter the Red & Blue Books? The Myst game doesn't say. My theory is that they entered those Ages before Atrus fell into their trap. Again, the hologram message says Atrus was going to go looking for the boys to find out which of them was responsible. Where were they? I think they decided to use the R&B Books as hideouts while waiting for Atrus to get trapped. They assumed those Ages had links back to Myst, just like every other Age they had ever visited, so they weren't in the habit of carrying a Myst Linking Book with them.

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brilers
08-07-2004, 09:01 AM
I agree with EMS, Atrus was a very careful fellow, and the brothers were probably used to either traveling with their Dad who had a linking book or visiting ages that had linking books back to Myst. So when they see these two books on pedastals in the library, they probably figured there were linking books back to Myst...

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Eat_My_Shortz
08-07-2004, 08:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Atrus was a very careful fellow<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
A lesson learnt the hard way. I re-read the Book of Atrus last night. Do you recall the scene when Atrus wrote his first age. He linked there with Gehn.

Then Gehn asked if he brought his linking book! Atrus had forgotten, but fortunately Gehn did not. Gehn being Gehn, he ripped into Atrus http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

I agree with JB's theorem. Atrus MUST have known they were trapped before he went to K'veer because he tells you so.

I think the boys were trapped - then Atrus found them, then went to K'veer to "find answers" (although I don't know how many answers he could find there) - only to find that the Myst page was torn.
(Why would S&A hide the page in the vault? Why not just tear it into little pieces and burn it?)

Also theres Catherine in the picture - ahh now it makes sense!
1. S&A tricked Catherine into going to Riven because she thought Atrus was there.
2. Sirrus leaves message to Achenar in Channelwood. "Take only one page"
3. Achenar takes the page from Myst book and hides it (how did Achenar get back to Myst island without leaving a working link behind???)
4. S&A burn the library books.
5. Sirrus and Achenar link into the Red and Blue books (why would they, realistically, not take a Myst book? And why would they each go into separate ages? Were they competing at this stage?)
6. Atrus returns to find his library destroyed and his sons in the R&B books. He leaves message to Catherine in the imager, and note on the grass.
7. Atrus links to K'veer, expecting to find Catherine on Riven or in K'veer ("They used their own mother to lure me here to D'ni!") (But why would he leave Catherine a message if he expected to find her on Riven?)
8. And the rest as they say is history...

_______________________________________________
...Untěl Uru can slowly grow again. (http://plasma.cyanworlds.com)

Exziler
08-09-2004, 04:31 AM
In the message he also told Catherine to delete the message? Why? He knew S&A was trapped.

Eat_My_Shortz
08-09-2004, 05:29 AM
Good point.

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...Untěl I get a CD Key...? (http://plasma.cyanworlds.com)

JustBrett
08-09-2004, 06:59 AM
It works a little better with a slight revision to the timeline of events.

1. Atrus finds the library burned and suspects one of his sons.

2. He doesn't know where the boys are at that moment, and he doesn't yet know Catherine went to K'veer/Riven. Apparently he thinks she was somewhere else -- maybe Rime -- and will be back shortly. So, he leaves her a note and a holographic message in case she returns before he does.

3. He goes to look for the boys, as he said in the hologram, and finds out that they trapped themselves in the R&B Books. He decides to leave them both there temporarily, until he finds out which one is guilty of burning the library. Then he can release the innocent one.

4. While investigating the crime, he discovers that Catherine went to K'veer/Riven. (The boys must have left evidence of this to lure Atrus to K'veer while they were in hiding.) He rushes after her and becomes trapped himself because of the damage the boys did to his Myst Linking Book.

That pretty much fixes up the loose ends, I think. But, I do wonder where Atrus was at the time the library was burned, and where he thought Catherine was.

I'm also beginning to think I know why they burned the library. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that they hid any Linking or Descriptive Books there and just burned the journals. They knew that a pile of ashes would drive Atrus into a panic and make him less cautious than usual, so he would fall into their trap more easily.

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jetuserX
08-11-2004, 10:23 PM
as a reference.. the 2nd age is supposedly spire so im guessing thats the prison age that atrus was talking about in the blue book in the demo.. im guessing thats the ship age.. i could be wrong

TheThunder55
08-12-2004, 05:14 AM
i agree, i believe that our missing prison age is spire.

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TheThunder55
08-13-2004, 08:08 PM
so far, with only the ship shot that weve seen, it looks breathtaking.

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matt myat
08-13-2004, 08:45 PM
The ship? what ship? - i thought that was on Haven??? are there two? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

TheThunder55
08-13-2004, 09:13 PM
wait, now im totally confused, someone said there was a ship on spire???!!!

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PGC_jopp
08-14-2004, 05:57 AM
If you read the journal in the demo you know Atrus was exploring Haven to check if it could support a human. He also mentioned how the 3 kids from the Myst stoneship age would love to play around the ship there. Atrus left Haven by swimming to the center of a lake and linked out, destroying the link book wich sank to the bottom of the lake.

Zenith, feeling bad for not understanding the DRC...

JustBrett
08-14-2004, 09:34 AM
After reading that journal, I hope there's a longer version in the full game. It sounds like Atrus Wrote that ship into the Age on purpose, as he did with Stoneship. But, the journal doesn't explain why! In the Myst Stoneship journal he concluded that trying to Write man-made objects into an Age is a mistake -- one of the many things his father didn't teach him about the rules of the Art. What made him change his mind when Writing Haven? What was his reason for attempting it? I hope we get an explanation for this interesting choice.

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TheThunder55
08-14-2004, 12:00 PM
he probably wanted a better envirnment to support his son.

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kidcorporeal
08-14-2004, 01:18 PM
He is a father after all. I mean, yeah, his kids did bad things. But I think he just wanted to contain them, not kill them.

TheThunder55
08-14-2004, 01:43 PM
yeah.

You know, maybe we'll see ghen's prison age one day?

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ZHorkmeister
08-14-2004, 08:53 PM
Yeah .... been giving the prison ages some thought ... seems to me Atrus himself is supporting his imprisoned sons ... writing things into those ages and giving Sirrus and Achenar all the comforts of home --- in return, Sirrus and Achenar posed nicely for Atrus' updated photographs he has of them in Tomahna http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

JustBrett
08-15-2004, 06:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheThunder55:
he probably wanted a better envirnment to support his son.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
But, he didn't know one of his sons would end up in that Age. Remember, the Haven journal says that he was going to warn the boys to stay away from those Books. So he didn't add the ship specifically for Achenar. Perhaps he did it just out of a general sense of kindness, to provide shelter and building materials for anyone who ended up imprisoned there.

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TheThunder55
08-15-2004, 11:36 AM
he told them to stay away from the books SO they would link there, its reverse psycology.

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LazerFX
08-16-2004, 04:18 PM
Maybe he intended them for someone else?

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brilers
08-16-2004, 04:26 PM
Don't the linking books have moving flyby's? What if it was there to entice the greedy, unknowing explorer who might happen upon Myst to link to there instead of messing around in the Library...

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ArienMalfoy
08-16-2004, 05:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LazerFX:
Maybe he intended them for someone else?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Like who? Gehn was already trapped, and there's never been any mention of any other troublemakers.

Two books, two problem children? I think it's obvious that he 'warned' them to stay away from the books knowing that's exactly what would pique their curiosity the most.


What I want to know about these prison ages is this: How could Sirrus and Achenar see you looking into the book at them? For that matter, when you link into Gehn's prison book in Riven, all you see is black with a window through which you can see Gehn in the outside world. So how exactly does this happen if the prison is an age? I can accept that Gehn's prison book was different, as I got the impression that Atrus had to write it very quickly. But if Sirrus and Achenar have been in these big ages all this time, how did we see them, and how did they see and speak to us, while we looked in the books?

JustBrett
08-16-2004, 09:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ArienMalfoy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LazerFX:
Maybe he intended them for someone else?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Like who? Gehn was already trapped, and there's never been any mention of any other troublemakers.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Atrus was worried about what kind of person might find the Myst Book that he dropped into the fissure. So, he wanted to create a trap for any greedy explorer who might come snooping around Myst Island. I think it's clear that he did NOT Write those prisons for his sons. He didn't even suspect his sons of any crime until after they burned the library.

Edit: Here are Atrus's exact words from the Haven journal, explaining why he wrote the prison Ages: "Having convinced myself of the need to protect my Myst library should some overly greedy explorer stumble onto it, I felt it necessary to link home very quickly."

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>What I want to know about these prison ages is this: How could Sirrus and Achenar see you looking into the book at them?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
They couldn't. That was part of the "artistic license" that Cyan used for the games, just like the concept of "trap Books". This is explained by RAWA in an email that you can read at the bottom of this page (http://www.dnidesk.com/rawalink98.html).

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[This message was edited by JustBrett on Mon August 16 2004 at 10:35 PM.]