PDA

View Full Version : Soviet Electronics



HangerQueen
03-24-2004, 07:54 PM
Does anyone know why the Soviet Union lagged so far behind the West in electronics? IIRC, Soviet planes were still using valve radars long after everone else had switched to solid state. Just curious.

"You can try, but it is a difficult and thankless task to compare the combat qualities of aircraft using reference book data. There are simply too many nuances to consider." N. G. Golodnikov

HangerQueen
03-24-2004, 07:54 PM
Does anyone know why the Soviet Union lagged so far behind the West in electronics? IIRC, Soviet planes were still using valve radars long after everone else had switched to solid state. Just curious.

"You can try, but it is a difficult and thankless task to compare the combat qualities of aircraft using reference book data. There are simply too many nuances to consider." N. G. Golodnikov

horseback
03-24-2004, 08:22 PM
Production solid-state electronics demands a lot of discipline and attention to detail from the skilled and semiskilled workers involved in the bulk of the work; this is something that the old Soviet workforce had a great deal of trouble with.

While the Soviets had the theoretical expertise, the average worker lacked the motivation to produce the product. After all, they got paid the same whether they were productive or not.

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

HangerQueen
03-24-2004, 09:09 PM
I think you're right, there. I've been reading a biography of Mikhail Gorbachov recently. Life in Soviet Russia sounds simply appaling.

"You can try, but it is a difficult and thankless task to compare the combat qualities of aircraft using reference book data. There are simply too many nuances to consider." N. G. Golodnikov

Agamemnon22
03-24-2004, 09:18 PM
Wasn't that bad http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Didn't have fancy electronics like the West, but on the other hand everyone was well cared for. At least in the cities. Rural life was very much pre-industrial.

HellToupee
03-24-2004, 11:29 PM
one advantage of valves is they wont be destroyed by emp when nukes go off, the blast is another issue not so easly avoided.

http://lamppost.mine.nu/ahclan/files/sigs/spitwhiners1.jpg

Menthol_moose
03-25-2004, 12:08 AM
Ive heard that Mig25 story about it being fitted with valves for the EMP thing. Not sure if it was real though.

http://images.somethingawful.com/mjolnir/images/cg09162003/Solvalou.jpg

Lunix
03-25-2004, 02:37 AM
Interesting theory of everyone being well cared for. You would think in a society like that jewels of culture, art and religion would be produced.

http://members.shaw.ca/corn/il2sig2.jpg

03-25-2004, 03:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HangerQueen:
IIRC, Soviet planes were still using valve radars long after everone else had switched to solid state. Just curious.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Electronics with valves/tubes is much more resistant to electromagnetic pulse (EMP). The Soviets didn't f- around. They were ready for WWIII and meant to fight it.

BaldieJr
03-25-2004, 10:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HellToupee:
one advantage of valves is they wont be destroyed by emp when nukes go off, the blast is another issue not so easly avoided.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No offense, but this is untrue. Tubes are only slightly more resistant.

Because Russia did no trade with other nations, it had to develope all its technology on its own, which took them a lot longer to do than the rest of the world.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

ISU-152
03-25-2004, 10:38 AM
Helltoupee is correct.

"Unofficial" Soviet doctrine was to EMP pulse the enemy (ie nuke) just before commencing the major offensive. It would render the newer-electronic allied vehicles crippled, yet allow for a pre-emptive strike by Soviet bombers even if the allies retaliated with their own EMP burst afterward. Soviet ground vehicles would also still be operational in support of advancing infantry operations.

BaldieJr
03-25-2004, 10:42 AM
No, he is wrong. Be sure.

Tubes are only slightly more resistant, and only in a lab. In the real world, tube-type equipment will fail right next to its semiconductor counterparts when a high-level EMP happens.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

ISU-152
03-25-2004, 11:30 AM
Well, then that depends on your source of data. The physicists for the US Army say that Helltoupee is correct.

About 3x10^-5 of the bomb's total energy is channeled into the EMP burst. You are correct in saying that a high altitude burst is much worse than one that is ground based. However, solid state transmitters can be up to 10 million times more susceptible to NEMP (nuclear EMP) than are vaccuum tubes that do not use semiconductor rectifiers.

In addition, if an EMP burst did fry the electronics on both sides, the Soviet first stage resister tubes were much easier to replace than the allied first stage transistors, putting the soviet machinery back in operation in far less time.

BaldieJr
03-25-2004, 12:19 PM
I'm sorry, but you are still wrong.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

ISU-152
03-25-2004, 01:08 PM
Don't tell me, tell the nuclear physicists!