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Siwarrior
09-14-2004, 01:13 AM
i am only 13 and in the Australian Air force Cadets. I went flying the other day in a piper tomahawk, it was great fun and the pilot said i was a natural. Since then i have had seemed to be a better pilot in FB,
has anyone eles had this experience?

Siwarrior
09-14-2004, 01:13 AM
i am only 13 and in the Australian Air force Cadets. I went flying the other day in a piper tomahawk, it was great fun and the pilot said i was a natural. Since then i have had seemed to be a better pilot in FB,
has anyone eles had this experience?

El Turo
09-14-2004, 01:42 AM
To a limited extent, sure.

Actually, I had a funny experience once when I was learning for my VFR ticket and my instructor asked me to try and fly the needles down the IFR glidescope with the hood on (which, miraculously I nailed on my first ever "live" attempt). He seemed kind of shocked that I had done so, so i jokingly ribbed him with "Hey, if I can land a damaged Phantom on a carrier in fog, I can pilot a stupid Cessna down the slope!"

(LOL)

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

ELEM
09-14-2004, 01:46 AM
I learnt to fly on Piper Tomahawks too. A very good little trainer. I hope you get the chance to qualify when you are old enough, whether it's just for pleasure or as a career. In the meantime, keep practicing with Il-2/FB.

I wouldn't join any club that would have ME as a member!

http://img35.photobucket.com/albums/v107/Elem_Klimov/I-16_desktop.jpg http://img35.photobucket.com/albums/v107/Elem_Klimov/dhm_787_small.jpg

WTE_Galway
09-14-2004, 01:55 AM
from what i have heard civilian flight sim users tend to be a lot better on instruments than other students but often have the bad habit of looking inside the cockpit a bit too much !!! be interesting to know if FB users learning to fly have a better SA then FS2004 users

LuckyBoy1
09-14-2004, 01:56 AM
I once crashed a Piper Cherokee that is very close to what you fly. I hit several snow geese while flying over the Sabine river in Texas / Louisiana area. Yes, there is nothing quite like the real thing to actually make you appreciate the effort that Oleg has put into making this game feel real in spite of all the whining that goes on by those who have never bothered to spend $25.00 U.S. for a Saturday morning introductory special flying lesson. I have a little over 1,800 hours and my instrument rating, and in spite of three crashes (all no billed against me in any way) I think you'd find my advice to be usefull from a fundemental safety standpoint. In fact, safety was such a cherrished idea when I flew, that my precher once feared it was a religion for me. He expected me to aurgue. I just smiled and said, "yes".

Now with an actual index & more fiber! It is newer & and even more improved! It's Luckyboy's Guide For Complete Users!...

http://www.airwarfare.com/tech/tech_lbguide.htm#001%20Security%20Issues

Luckyboy = Senior hydraulic landing gear designer for the P-11 & Contributing Editor to Complete Users magazine.

jurinko
09-14-2004, 02:00 AM
i flew as copilot on cessna 172 recently and after so many questions at pilot showing my deep knowledge http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif he allowed me to take the stick for some 15min. He also stated I can do quite well!
but now when i do these crazy loops and low level turns in FB I realize it is not so easy in real aircraft http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

---------------------
Letka_13/Liptow @ HL

lindyman
09-14-2004, 02:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
from what i have heard civilian flight sim users tend to be a lot better on instruments than other students but often have the bad habit of looking inside the cockpit a bit too much !!! be interesting to know if FB users learning to fly have a better SA then FS2004 users
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I too have heard that this is true, and I believe it too, and with an added confusion over how fuzzy the instruments are IRL compared to the very distinct needles in sims.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jurinko:
&gt; He also stated I can do quite well!
but now when i do these crazy loops and low level turns in FB I realize it is not so easy in real aircraft http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

---------------------
Letka_13/Liptow @ HL
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

During my aerobatic training, I was told I had an unusually good sense for my orientation. Unlike sims, you of course get disoriented by physical forces, but having practiced a furball and know which way to run for home, you seem to develop a good sense for where you are and where your nose is pointing. Most people, or so I'm told, need some time to develop the sense of where they are and what direction their nose is pointing.
_
/Bjorn.

Siwarrior
09-14-2004, 03:08 AM
Yeah, takeoff was great fun.
But i also have completed and Aviation Theory Corse. Which is everything you need to know to fly a light plane(pipers, cessnas etc).
I am also going gliding too soon and am lokking forward to it.

LEXX_Luthor
09-14-2004, 03:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I am only 13 and in the Australian Air force Cadets.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I didn't know RAAF cadets grew up into such crazy pilots.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=186007817



RAAF Meteorological Flight--Aussie Air Commodore Heffernan...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Page 248
The inauguration of the meteorological flights coincided with the arrival in Australia of eight Bristol Bulldog single-seater fighter aircraftâ"”purchased surplus from Britainâ"”in 1929.

Page 249
"Sometimes during a flight one would encounter huge towering cumulus clouds, and it was a sheer delight to play chasings around themâ"”-through the valleys and then a dive into a mass of cloud, a couple of minutes of clammy wetness and out into brilliant sunshine.

In fact we were not supposed to do anything other than climbing and gliding, as there was some theory that violent manoeuvres upset the thermometers; but it was hard to resist the temptation of this type of sport; Bow and as I said earlier, because of the limited number of aircraft around the sky in those times, there was virtually no risk of collision. One morning however, I was frolicking around a big cumulus cloud and was actually about to loop the machine through a hole in it when, as I came over the top of the loop, I saw to my horror another Bulldog looping in the opposite direction. Both of us were upside down and pointing straight at each other! I've forgotten what type of avoiding action we took, but I know that I fell back into the cloud and prayed that the other chap had gone the other way. On returning to the tarmac I was greeted by my friend, and we both made the same remark: 'Were you the bloody fool that was mucking around that cloud?'. Thereafter, we treated cumulus clouds with a bit more respect." [31]

31. O.G. Heffernan in Stand Toâ"”January-March 1966.

Page 249~~&gt; http://www.austehc.unimelb.edu.au/fam/0249.html <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
http://www.toandfrom.org/lightaircraft/TCu.JPG

Flying conditions: Usually bumpy below, and within, but smooth to the sides and above. In larger cumulus clouds light showers occur. Visibility between clouds is excellent.

~ http://www.toandfrom.org/lightaircraft/clouds.html

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack ( AEP )

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Macel
09-14-2004, 05:09 AM
Haven't flown yet myself, but I am planning on taking private pilot lessons when I head back home in Nov. (Partly inspired by this game, partly by flying in passenger jets earlier this year for the first time)..

I just have to make sure to tell the instructor to remind me not to bank 90 and pull back on the stick when he wants me to come about.

christopher65
09-14-2004, 05:27 AM
Have flown in several light aircraft and gliders etc but in my opinion the greatest sensation of flight was on a dual paraglide jump in Turkey.It was off a 2500m mountian and took 1.5 hours to get down!!! The feeling of clouds on your face is just....well there are no words for it really!!! Awesome!!! Advise everyone to have a go at that.A spiraling dive from 3000 feet is quite differant from anything in FB.You feel very alive!!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v282/christopher65/rare%20planes/PortraitofaQueen.jpg

BinaryFalcon
09-14-2004, 06:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Since then i have had seemed to be a better pilot in FB,
has anyone eles had this experience?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Overall, I'd say yes. While doing one won't necessarily teach you how to do the other, I have found that they do tend to reinforce each other.

I think I saw the biggest improvement in my IL-2/FB flying after I'd gotten my commercial rating and was working on my multi. By then I'd had most of the aerodynamics, navigation and performance classes I was going to take, and during the commercial and multi courses I was really able to put a lot of the aerodynamic theory to real use in real time.

The classroom stuff coupled with the actual experience of coordinating the aircraft through more complex maneuvers actually carried over to IL-2 fairly well. Because of it, and my prior experience with IL-2, I was able to attempt things I hadn't tried before in the sim and get the results that I expected because the overall flight physics in the sim are pretty close to what they should be.

Where it really comes in handy in the sim is when you've lost controls or have other performance hindering damage. A good understanding of the aerodynamics at work helps you continue to fly the plane much more effectively. It takes a lot of the trial and error and guesswork out of things.

All of that said, if I had to assign an actual value of improvement, I'd rate it at somewhat less than about 10% going either way. You won't really learn to fly a plane by flying a sim, and you won't really learn to fly a sim by flying a plane. They're different beasts. But, if you've got a good grounding in both, practicing with one can help with the other.

TgD Thunderbolt56
09-14-2004, 07:04 AM
I can't say I've become a better pilot (I've flown light aircraft and gliders for years), but one thing I notice is how most people greatly belittle the use of rudder in-game.

In RL, I crab all the time.


Our FB server info: http://www.greatergreen.com/il2

The_Pharoah
09-14-2004, 07:34 AM
yep, I've done 3/4 of my PPL but then ran outta $$$ and stopped http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif However, there is NOTHING like flying a real airplane (flew 152's and a 172) - you can actually feel everything like driving a car (ie. u can almost feel the road through the tyres). Its the most awesome experience ever. And yes, you're encouraged to look out the windows at where you're going more than inside at the instruments (only on IFR or night VFR training).

They offer $50/half hour flights from most airfields - try it, it'll be the best money you ever spent! (apart from buying IL2/PF and HL2).

mortoma
09-14-2004, 07:51 AM
I got my license in 2000 at the ripe medium age of 42. Wanted to get it when I was about 22 but could not afford it, but better late than never. Yes, experience flying flight sims helped me in a lot of ways. But I'd have to say that my experience in civilian sims, like X-plane and MSFS, helped me a lot more than military ones like FB. After all, with those you are flying similar types of aircraft and flying them mostly level, like you do real civilian GA aircraft. I breezed through my training and soloed after only 11 hours. My instructor had over 25,000 hours, about 13,000 of which was instructing and examining. And I was the only student he ever trained on more than 2 different aircraft. He signed me off on 3 different ones. I had him convinced of the value of PC flight sims, after all I had thousands of hours in sims before I ever took a lesson from him.

TD_Klondike
09-14-2004, 10:40 AM
Hey BF, did you think that lazy eights helped you with your high/low yo-yos? I found that performing exaggerated (albeit sloppy) lazy 8s actually helped my understanding and SA, and allowed me to more effectively stay behind targets. Learning barrel rolls helped a lot, too.

Siwarrior
09-15-2004, 01:13 AM
i learnt something cool,
cumulonimbus =bad
glider ops=bad
Texan/harvard t6 planes buzzing around on your first flight =bad

WTE_Galway
09-15-2004, 01:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
I didn't know RAAF cadets grew up into such crazy pilots.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I rememeber reading an anecdote about someone who went flying just after the war with RAAF WWII spitfire ace Arthur Caldwell on a freight flight in a Dakota in the late 40's and wondered why the cargo was all strapped down with nets and ropes on a routine supply plane. The story goes the 2 hour flight was spent mainly either upside down or collecting gum leaves with the rear stabiliser.

T_O_A_D
09-15-2004, 07:03 PM
I am 39 and plan to try and get my license before 40 maybe 41 I hope! You don't know how many times I've contemplated selling stuff to go do it.

Have you checked your Private Topics recently? (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=ugtpc&s=400102)
My TrackIR fix, Read the whole thread (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=49310655&m=15310285&p=1)
Commanding Officer of the 131st_VFW (http://www.geocities.com/vfw_131st/)
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Bearcat99
09-16-2004, 06:16 AM
I went up for my demo flight a few weeks ago... it was $65 though LB not the $25 you spent... LOL. It did open my eyes to a few things though and gave mea better appreciation for the immersion that goes into FB.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://www.tuskegeeairmen.org)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
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IMMERSION BABY!!

BinaryFalcon
09-16-2004, 07:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Hey BF, did you think that lazy eights helped you with your high/low yo-yos?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did. Those and the chandelles in particular.

Although where it was most unexpectedly evident was in my ground attack runs. I found that I was turning a lot better and was a lot more accurate than I had been before, with a much better sense of energy efficiency in the sim.

Not so much because I could feel it any better, since you can't feel it in the sim, but because I'd gotten a very good feel for it in a real plane, so I knew how to make the most of what I had. Sort of like e-management based on memory.

That more than anything is where I think I got the most help. When you only fly the sim, you don't get to feel how the plane reacts to things. You can see it, and in some cases hear it, but that's still only maybe 20-30% of what a real plane will "tell" you when you're actually flying.

Once you build experience really managing energy down to the margins in a real aircraft, and really training yourself to the point that a perfect chandelle or lazy eight becomes second nature, you start to fly like that from then on without having to think about it.

That carries over well to the sim because even though you still can't feel the energy state of the simulated aircraft, you've trained and learned to manage it in a situation where you could feel it. Basically, you've learned the right way to handle the controls (how far to push, how fast you can move them, how much rudder your need at a given point, etc).

If the sim's flight model is reasonably accurate, this will pay off well, because you'll be flying the plane more efficiently than someone who has never had the benefit of feeling how a real plane handles at different energy states.

It's hard to explain, but I think it comes down to the fact that it's hard to really, truly fly the plane efficiently if you've only ever flown in a sim. I'm not saying it's impossible, but when you are missing out on one of the most critical bits of feedback from the aircraft, it's very difficult to find that fine line between "just right" and "not quite there".

Related to that, I think that also explains why I rarely unintentionally spin aircraft in IL-2 (even the P39), have never ripped the wings off of a P51, and was blissfully unaware of the 262's engine burning problems when throttled too quickly until people started complaining about it and I tried to force it myself to see what it was like. Even then it took a few tries because it never occurred to me to just jam the throttle forward from idle. Everything about that just felt wrong.

During my training in real aircraft I learned about control input rates, especially the throttle, and when I started flying IL-2, all of that just carried over. I handled the sim controls just like I would those of a real plane and didn't have any problems. If I hadn't had the real world experience beforehand, I'd have probably been spinning in, breaking P51s and burning up 262s at an alarming rate before I got the hang of it.

Old_Canuck
09-16-2004, 11:02 AM
Early this century I almost barrel-rolled a Cessna 172 on floats off the coast of Vancouver Island. It wasn't intentional -- a violent gust of wind almost flipped the plane. My Grandparents were on the beach waving. They must have thought I was doing a stunt for them.

Real flying experience does reduce the learning curve in FB but it doesn't make you a better shot.

OC

"You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing."

darkhorizon11
09-16-2004, 11:24 AM
True story. One time I was on a long cross country to Williston and I got the urge to switch to an outside and flyby view of my Piper Warrior while I was flying it!

Breeze147
09-16-2004, 11:31 AM
I would be flying along IRL and I would get a message: "Your flight has encountered a problem and must shut down. If you were in the middle of something you may lose all unsaved material. Do you wish to send an error message?"

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap16.jpg