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View Full Version : Aces of Pacific fan confused over Sturmovik



eobet
06-05-2004, 08:42 AM
Hello!

Well, actually, I own the original IL-2 Sturmovik as well, but I didn't buy Forgotten Battles, because I think it was unfair to charge full price for it.

I see now that there's a bunch of expansions out, which makes the game even more expensive (if you want a complete set), but I guess people here think that it is worth it.

Anyway, since I am an old Aces of the Pacific fan, this new title got me attracted to the game again, but I main question is: Is it a stand-alone game, or a mission disk? And if it is a mission disk, what do I need to play it?

And now you have to excuse me, because these questions might be answered here on the forums, but I don't have time to look for them, so I'm going to be lazy and ask them here, in case some friendly soul answers:

Will you earn medals and have a continously involving campaign like in the original Aces of the Pacific?

I did notice people here complaining about poor netcode in other mission disks. Will this be improved?

I recently watched a very interesting documentary on the Hellcat, and most interviewed old aces said two things which I never knew about:

You had to land the plane "sideways", and rely totally on the guy who flagged you down (forgot the English word for him, sorry). Is this in the game?

Apparently, the Zero couldn't turn right (or was it left? It was only good at turning in one direction anyway). Is this in the game?

eobet
06-05-2004, 08:42 AM
Hello!

Well, actually, I own the original IL-2 Sturmovik as well, but I didn't buy Forgotten Battles, because I think it was unfair to charge full price for it.

I see now that there's a bunch of expansions out, which makes the game even more expensive (if you want a complete set), but I guess people here think that it is worth it.

Anyway, since I am an old Aces of the Pacific fan, this new title got me attracted to the game again, but I main question is: Is it a stand-alone game, or a mission disk? And if it is a mission disk, what do I need to play it?

And now you have to excuse me, because these questions might be answered here on the forums, but I don't have time to look for them, so I'm going to be lazy and ask them here, in case some friendly soul answers:

Will you earn medals and have a continously involving campaign like in the original Aces of the Pacific?

I did notice people here complaining about poor netcode in other mission disks. Will this be improved?

I recently watched a very interesting documentary on the Hellcat, and most interviewed old aces said two things which I never knew about:

You had to land the plane "sideways", and rely totally on the guy who flagged you down (forgot the English word for him, sorry). Is this in the game?

Apparently, the Zero couldn't turn right (or was it left? It was only good at turning in one direction anyway). Is this in the game?

eobet
06-05-2004, 08:51 AM
Eeek! Ok, I had a few minutes reading the forum now, and I saw a response from Oleg Maddox in which he said the following:

"Of course it isn't the full modelling of overstressing or continues in time oversress for airframe. But something very important was done in AEP.... More will come in BoB in that area its why we now model so precise the internal construction of aircraft using manufacture blueprints and list of used materials..."

So, this means that If you don't own all mission disks, you won't have a complete flight model?

I'm sorry, but how greedy can you get? I think this seals it. If Pacific Fighters isn't stand-alone, I won't buy it.

(For people who are about to flame me, of course I'm upset by this! Core flight-model changes should be in the main game patch, and not some mission disk specific patch. This just spreads confusion and incompability!)

Tater-SW-
06-05-2004, 09:05 AM
It's my understanding that it will be playable alone out of the box, the only question is if the old stuff (Il-2/FB/AEP) will be available to PF owners or not.

tater

ElAurens
06-05-2004, 09:29 AM
eobet,

The flight and damage models for the IL2/FB/AEP world have evolved over time. They have become far more accurate. Your decision not to follow the development of this series is your folly. No oher WW2 air combat simulation even comes close to the IL2 universe.

That said, when Pacific Fighters is released this fall you will be able to buy it as a stand alone, and have the benefit of over two years of development of this series, most of which, by the way, came in the form of free patches.

The big debate here is wether or not the earlier content from IL2/FB/AEP will be included, or be compatible with, Pacific Fighters.

Hope to see you in the Pacific skys in the fall.

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

BlitzPig_EL

eobet
06-05-2004, 09:45 AM
Hello!

Thank you for the answers. I will definetly buy Pacific Fighters. I can only hope that there is a good campaign in it, with lots of medals. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

As for the amount of work gone into the game, I can't afford neither the money investment, nor the time investment that these different mission disks warrant. I just think that core flight engine improvements should be in a core game patch, if nothing else, simply to avoid confusion (what happens when you have a newer mission disk, but not the older one, for example?).

Anyway, if someone could please answer the supplementary questions as well, I'd appreciate it very much (especially the two questions learned from the Discovery Channel documentary).

Yellonet
06-05-2004, 09:52 AM
Ahh... those good old days with AotP =) Have it installed on my computer but can't get it to work =(

Pf is probably going to be stand-alone, at least from what I've been hearing. But then there are many that like it to be an addon for FB so that you can have all the planes and maps in the same game...


- Yellonet

eobet
06-05-2004, 10:42 AM
Have you tried DosBox?

http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/

Thank you for all your quick answers! I have made a new thread about the Discovery Channel documentary, so no need to answer those question here.

XyZspineZyX
06-05-2004, 05:57 PM
In appearing that PF will be stand alone....
Will Hyperlobby come to the party and set up a room for it ?????

Chuck_Older
06-05-2004, 06:26 PM
Mission disks? For Il*2:Forgotten battles? Never heard of them. The only disk I have bought aside from Il*2:FB was the Ace expansion pack, which is a little misnamed, it does not add aces. It's just a name. Two members here were kind enough to mail me "patches" (A term I hate, they are really updates), but they mailed me those because I have a crummy download speed. But those 'patches' were free from the game maker.

Eobet, your finances are your business, but about the time investment...I can't see your point. You can't invest the time, you say...but then why are you wasting your time with Pacific Fighters? I don't get it...it's not as if you must relearn everything each time a 'patch' comes out- and certainly, PF will follow suit with downloads as time goes on. Some things change, but it's not as if you must spend months forgetting all you've learned just to start learning the 'new' flight models. if you mean the time to install or download...well, do it just before you go to bed if you must, or, if you are fortunate like me, ask if someone can help you out. This community is the second best I have found online. The first is my car club's website, we swap parts for free. (Join the Buick Performance Group!) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

*****************************
The hillsides ring with, "Free the People",
Or can I hear the echoes from the days of '39?
~ Clash

VW-IceFire
06-05-2004, 07:17 PM
Il2:Forgotten Battles is a full sequel to IL2 Sturmovik with a far greater range of play. Add to that the completely FREE 1.22 patch that came out a few months ago and you get two western front maps and a pacific map along with flyable P-51D, A6M5, and Ki-84a. Add to that Ace Expansion pack which brings you upto a total of around 120 flyable aircraft then addd the once again completely FREE 2.01 addon and you have almost 130 flyable aircraft.

Now, you can go out to the store and get Forgotten Battles AND Ace Expansion pack in the Forgotten Battles Gold Pack by paying maybe $25 and you get litterally hundreds if not thousands of hours of potential gameplay. Thats HARDLY a money grab...and yes AEP expands the flight modeling and complexity of a number of things and the latest FM/DM's are QUITE good. They must have spent considerable hours of development time doing some of those things...and many of them are present even in the FB 1.22 patch.

Now, Aces of the Pacific was (and is) my favorite flight sim from back in the days of the 386 and I think Pacific Fighters will be one of the few games that will do this theater justice like that game did. I can't wait!

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

eobet
06-06-2004, 03:17 AM
Well, if you look at this page:

http://www.webhallen.com/sok.php?sokord=sturmovik&avd=&konsol=&genre=&x=0&y=0

...you will see that four Sturmovik titles exist, and that doesn't even include the original game and the Aces expansion.

Now, add that to the fact that some expansions have different flight models from the others, and that I only have the original game, I think you'll understand why I am confused.

But I already said that I would buy Pacific Fighters because it is stand-alone, so hopefully, I don't have to bother will all the other stuff. I just want to re-live Aces of the Pacific, which I also remember, as several people here have mentioned, to be the best old flight sim (F117A Nighhawk coming at a close second place).

Now could you all please stop defending this game, and go and look at my other Discovery channel thread? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

IV_JG51_Razor
06-06-2004, 07:42 AM
Out of the four boxes you have referred to, only one, "Forgotten Battles" is the game. All the rest are third party addons, mostly for offline play. They are mission packs, and skins. There are no additional aircraft, or any changes to the code whatsoever. And they are not published by UBiSoft.

Razor
IV/JG51 Intelligence Officer
www.jg51.net (http://www.jg51.net)

"Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from poor judgement"

s.bush
06-06-2004, 11:10 AM
SUB:COSTS.
----------

if enthusiasts wont spend 25 usd on a sim then what are they going to do when soon they will have a major expense in upgrading their GRAPHIC CARDS(500usd) ETC in the next 18 months?
then PF and the upcoming BOB wont be sold here in Europe under 50usd you can take my word.
s.Bush

http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v76/aminx/cors_land_car.jpg

Zeus-cat
06-06-2004, 12:30 PM
Comabt Over Europe and Operation Barborossa are third party add-ons that have nothing to do with the makers or distributors of IL-2 or IL-2FB/Aces. I don't have eithe of these products.

Battle Over Europe was developed by some of the people who made third party aircraft for IL-2FB/Aces. It is an unofficial add-on that was developed with some assistance from Oleg's team, but is not distributed by Oleg or UbiSoft. I did buy this one and I like it. I recommend it if you like campaigns as it has both on-line or off-line campaigns.

Zeus-cat

zoomar2
06-07-2004, 11:55 AM
Eobot:

Since you haven't played anything other than the original Il2, I don't see what your points are. Here's the way I wee the IL2 franchise working so far.

IL2 was the original ($40 a pop) for the best, most realistic WW2 flight sim, ever, with a great mission builder. Then, several FREE online updates which gradually added some flyable and AI planes and tweaked the FM.

Then $30-40 for FB, a new game which incorporated all the prior changes and added tons of new aircraft and new theatres, as well as some improved graphics (there some problems with sound and FM requiring patching, but these were FREE - and almost with each patch you also got something else new.

Now AEP or the Gold Edition ($30 or 40), which give you the potion of either uptaing FB or going with a clean new install.

PF will be a new and standalone game based on the current IL2 engine as updated to support aircaft carriers and other new things)

BoB is, as I gather, something completely different.

I do not feel in the least bit
"cheated"

VW-IceFire
06-07-2004, 01:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by eobet:
Well, if you look at this page:

http://www.webhallen.com/sok.php?sokord=sturmovik&avd=&konsol=&genre=&x=0&y=0

...you will see that four Sturmovik titles exist, and that doesn't even include the original game and the Aces expansion.

Now, add that to the fact that some expansions have different flight models from the others, and that I only have the original game, I think you'll understand why I am confused.

But I already said that I would buy Pacific Fighters because it is stand-alone, so hopefully, I don't have to bother will all the other stuff. I just want to re-live Aces of the Pacific, which I also remember, as several people here have mentioned, to be the best old flight sim (F117A Nighhawk coming at a close second place).

Now could you all please stop defending this game, and go and look at my other Discovery channel thread? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Only one of those four are actually the real product. Battle Over Europe has a dynamic campaign generator for western europe maps and is not required, does not add any FM or aircraft changes (despite the sales pitch, it builds off patch 1.21). Combat Over Europe is a single player addon pack with new missions and campaigns to play. Not required, nothing new in FM or plane department. Operation Barbarrosa is exactly the same thing too.

So you've been perhaps a bit fooled by the marketers and by that page is awefully hard to tell. There are only THREE products currently released.

1) IL-2 Sturmovik (you already have it)
2) IL-2 Forgotten Battles (massive expansion of IL-2 with dynamic campaign gen, new aircraft, maps, graphics and FM updates plus a whole set of patches including one that adds Western Europe mapes)
3) Forgotten Battles Ace Expansion (AEP) which adds new aircraft, FM models, updates, and a variety of extras plus the 2.01 patch with even more aircraft.

So You need to buy a total of two products...not four as you had suggested. Even more to the point is that items 2 and 3 on the list can be bought for $25 in a single package called the Forgotten Battles Gold Pack.

So I heartily recommend you get the Gold Package and completely ignore what that website lists as being any sort of expansion because only FB and AEP offer any new aircraft, graphics, or FM changes. Those are the official products...all others are third party authorized and not required to play online for instance.

PF is seemingly going to be a stand alone pack as well...but if you like WWII sims, especially if you like Aces of the Pacific like I do...then buy the FB Gold Pack (and ignore the rest!). Its the best WWII pack since AOTP and you'll be all ready to take on Pacific Fighters when it arrives. And at $25 in some places...as I said before...its entirely worth it!

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

Klatuu
06-08-2004, 05:38 AM
I'm sorry, but how greedy can you get? I think this seals it. If Pacific Fighters isn't stand-alone, I won't buy it.

Well, stuff costs money. You might see if they'll take a goat in trade, but I find cash fits so much better in my wallet, and I clean up a whole lot less goat **** that way.

At the rate the games and expansions are released, you'd spend at MOST $80 a year, more like an avg of &lt;$60. In my part of the world, that's less than 1 day work at unskilled labor rates, or less than one day pushing a broom around. I would suggest that if that's too much to pay for 6 months or a year's worth of work from dozens of people who are making the best example of a product that exists, you've got bigger problems than video game costs.

That's less than dinner and a movie with a pretty girl, not a bad deal. I realize the ugly ones come cheaper, and will even pay for the date if they're particularly homely, but damn dude. Just damn.

IV_JG51_Razor
06-08-2004, 07:58 AM
LOL! That's about what it's costing me to fill up my SUV any more. It's not much more than a carton of cigaretts in most states, and I think $60 is just about right for a night at the bar with the boys! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

I think IL-2, and all it's itterations, are really quite cheap forms of intertainment, and very good value.

Razor
IV/JG51 Intelligence Officer
www.jg51.net (http://www.jg51.net)

"Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from poor judgement"