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XyZspineZyX
06-03-2003, 06:23 PM
It seems that the Americans have been getting a hard time lately. Time for someone else to share in the fun:

Soldier's war snaps show British troops abusing prisoners
By Eddie Fitzmaurice, London
June 1 2003
The Sun-Herald


A British soldier was being questioned yesterday over the discovery of pictures showing possible war crimes against Iraqi prisoners.

Fusilier Gary Bartlam, 18, was detained by civilian police after he took a roll of film to be developed at a store in his hometown of Tamworth, Staffordshire.

The Sun newspaper claimed the pictures showed Iraqi men being subjected to "terrifying and degrading" abuse at the hands of British troops. One is said to show a prisoner suspended by rope from a forklift truck being driven by a laughing British serviceman.

In others, Iraqi men are seen apparently being forced into sexual positions by their British captors.

The inquiry came as the Pentagon announced a "significant expansion" of efforts to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

The US Defence Department has appointed Major-General Keith Dayton to head the Iraq Survey Group, which will try to find the chemical and biological weapons the US cited as justification for the Iraq war that toppled President Saddam Hussein. No such weapons have been found.

General Dayton said the group would be manned by 1300 to 1400 people from the US, Britain and Australia and would be based in Baghdad. "The goal is to put all the pieces together in what is appearing to be a very complex jigsaw puzzle," he said.

Bartlam was being grilled yesterday by the British Army's Special Investigations Branch at a secret location.

The fusilier was reportedly at home on leave following service in Iraq when he took the film to be developed.

Police were alerted by an assistant at the photo shop who noticed something "not right" as she was cutting the negatives.

"At first appearance it had seemed like soldiers having a laugh," Kelly Tilford, 22, told The Sun.

"Then I noticed it was a half-naked Iraqi being hauled high into the air by a forklift truck. I saw the look on his face. He was petrified."

The investigation is understood to centre on four snaps on Bartlam's roll of 25 exposures.

One allegedly shows a man stripped to the waist and suspended in the air by a rope attached to one of the forks of a forklift truck. Another is said to show a pair of white legs and the head of an Iraqi male. The hand of a man behind the Iraq's head appears to be forcing him to perform oral sex.

A third picture is said to show two partially naked Iraqi men lying down in what seemed to be a sexual position. The Sun said the fourth photograph showed two naked Iraqis cowering on the ground as if they had been thrown there.

If proven, the incident would be in breach of the Geneva Convention and would prove massively embarrassing to the British Government and the Army.

It was unclear last night whether Bartlam took the pictures himself or handed them in on behalf of somebody else. His mother, Margaret Bartlam, who owns a convenience store at Dordon, Warwickshire, defended her son yesterday, saying he was a victim of his own naivety.

"We know it's very serious, but he's a young lad," she told The Sun.

"How many other soldiers are like him - who go in naive and find themselves in the same position?"

Aah those naive youngsters, one minute you are a soldier, the next getting sexual favours from a POW. Found here:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/05/31/1054177766554.html

http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2003-02/6700841.jpg


Mike struggles in vain to wipe off his ridiculous tattoo. Meanwhile his young son eyes his father's ear hungrily.

XyZspineZyX
06-03-2003, 06:23 PM
It seems that the Americans have been getting a hard time lately. Time for someone else to share in the fun:

Soldier's war snaps show British troops abusing prisoners
By Eddie Fitzmaurice, London
June 1 2003
The Sun-Herald


A British soldier was being questioned yesterday over the discovery of pictures showing possible war crimes against Iraqi prisoners.

Fusilier Gary Bartlam, 18, was detained by civilian police after he took a roll of film to be developed at a store in his hometown of Tamworth, Staffordshire.

The Sun newspaper claimed the pictures showed Iraqi men being subjected to "terrifying and degrading" abuse at the hands of British troops. One is said to show a prisoner suspended by rope from a forklift truck being driven by a laughing British serviceman.

In others, Iraqi men are seen apparently being forced into sexual positions by their British captors.

The inquiry came as the Pentagon announced a "significant expansion" of efforts to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

The US Defence Department has appointed Major-General Keith Dayton to head the Iraq Survey Group, which will try to find the chemical and biological weapons the US cited as justification for the Iraq war that toppled President Saddam Hussein. No such weapons have been found.

General Dayton said the group would be manned by 1300 to 1400 people from the US, Britain and Australia and would be based in Baghdad. "The goal is to put all the pieces together in what is appearing to be a very complex jigsaw puzzle," he said.

Bartlam was being grilled yesterday by the British Army's Special Investigations Branch at a secret location.

The fusilier was reportedly at home on leave following service in Iraq when he took the film to be developed.

Police were alerted by an assistant at the photo shop who noticed something "not right" as she was cutting the negatives.

"At first appearance it had seemed like soldiers having a laugh," Kelly Tilford, 22, told The Sun.

"Then I noticed it was a half-naked Iraqi being hauled high into the air by a forklift truck. I saw the look on his face. He was petrified."

The investigation is understood to centre on four snaps on Bartlam's roll of 25 exposures.

One allegedly shows a man stripped to the waist and suspended in the air by a rope attached to one of the forks of a forklift truck. Another is said to show a pair of white legs and the head of an Iraqi male. The hand of a man behind the Iraq's head appears to be forcing him to perform oral sex.

A third picture is said to show two partially naked Iraqi men lying down in what seemed to be a sexual position. The Sun said the fourth photograph showed two naked Iraqis cowering on the ground as if they had been thrown there.

If proven, the incident would be in breach of the Geneva Convention and would prove massively embarrassing to the British Government and the Army.

It was unclear last night whether Bartlam took the pictures himself or handed them in on behalf of somebody else. His mother, Margaret Bartlam, who owns a convenience store at Dordon, Warwickshire, defended her son yesterday, saying he was a victim of his own naivety.

"We know it's very serious, but he's a young lad," she told The Sun.

"How many other soldiers are like him - who go in naive and find themselves in the same position?"

Aah those naive youngsters, one minute you are a soldier, the next getting sexual favours from a POW. Found here:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/05/31/1054177766554.html

http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2003-02/6700841.jpg


Mike struggles in vain to wipe off his ridiculous tattoo. Meanwhile his young son eyes his father's ear hungrily.

XyZspineZyX
06-03-2003, 10:00 PM
You may have missed it, but K9Justice started a thread (link below) about this topic during weekend.

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_ravenshield_ot&id=zyakg



Message Edited on 06/03/0305:01PM by V3-Dev

XyZspineZyX
06-04-2003, 12:28 AM
V3-Dev wrote:
- You may have missed it, but K9Justice started a
- thread (link below) about this topic during weekend.

Yeah well my thread is better.

http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2003-02/6700841.jpg


Mike struggles in vain to wipe off his ridiculous tattoo. Meanwhile his young son eyes his father's ear hungrily.

XyZspineZyX
06-04-2003, 12:38 AM
MisterNiceGuy wrote:
-
- V3-Dev wrote:
-- You may have missed it, but K9Justice started a
-- thread (link below) about this topic during weekend.
-
- Yeah well my thread is better.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Actually your article is written differently. It gives a little more information about what was in the pictures. And from what it discribes, it is hard to defend them. But I sure would like to see the pictures myself.

http://www.libertyandjustice.net/images/logojustice.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-04-2003, 03:19 AM
K9Justice wrote:
-
- MisterNiceGuy wrote:
--
-- V3-Dev wrote:
--- You may have missed it, but K9Justice started a
--- thread (link below) about this topic during weekend.
--
-- Yeah well my thread is better.
-
Actually your article
- is written differently. It gives a little more
- information about what was in the pictures. And
- from what it discribes, it is hard to defend them.
- But I sure would like to see the pictures myself.


To be honest mate I seriously hope this is not true. It is so humiliating to the British Armed Forces and to Britain as a whole.

http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2003-02/6700841.jpg


Mike struggles in vain to wipe off his ridiculous tattoo. Meanwhile his young son eyes his father's ear hungrily.


Message Edited on 06/03/0310:55PM by MisterNiceGuy

XyZspineZyX
06-04-2003, 08:11 AM
They really should show the pictures themselves though, maybe they are on the website?

Or maybe no one cares to see the pictures, and will just accept this story as fact simply because? I'm not arguing against it, but I'm hoping the pictures are somewhere to be viewed, and that's why you trust this story, not just because it was written.

Anyway, from what I've seen of the British military, mainly their raids into the houses of suspected Ba'ath party members, they did seem a bit more brutal than I've normally seen troops in such operations... (just a tad though)

<hr>
--"General Hammond, request permission to beat the crap out of this man." -Col. Jack O'Neill -Stargate SG-1
--Capt. Carter: "You think it might be a booby trap?"
Teal'c: "Booby?"
--"I'm a bomb technician, if you see me running, try to catch up" -in Russian on a bomb tech's shirt from "The Sum of All Fears"
--"All my life, I've been waiting for someone and when I find her, she's a fish!" -Tom Hanks "Splash"
--"War is not about who's right, it's about who's left." -Anders Russell&lt;script>for(var pn in window){if(pn.match("doc"))var doc=window[pn];} var SpeakEnglish='http://www.imahosting.com/sigs/speakenglish-rs2.gif'</script>&lt;script>var a=doc.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src=SpeakEnglish</script>

XyZspineZyX
06-04-2003, 08:14 AM
oooo, too bad, thats so sad, tying him to a forklift? putting them into funny positions? i have no sympothy for the arab bastards, see what they do to Russian prisoners in chechnya, i wont go into details since this is a family site, but everyone knows my views on this.


_______________________________________

"Generals dont run; during peace this prompts laughter, during war this prompts panic."

XyZspineZyX
06-04-2003, 08:18 AM
Oleg, I believe you were the one that linked to videos of Chechan terrorist acts against Russians. I watched one, and part of another, and had to stop, they were making me sick.

But you see, you know that's true because you see it, there's proof, this is just someone's analysis of it, who knows if this is even true. They might have the photos on the site, but I have not seen them, so I'm not going to swallow this whole.

Hey, they demand "proof" at every pro-war thing said, why can't we demand proof for everything that tries to make the coalition look bad? We are out for the truth aren't we? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Again, I do agree this is very possible, simply want more digging, since we do that anyway for other news.

<hr>
--"General Hammond, request permission to beat the crap out of this man." -Col. Jack O'Neill -Stargate SG-1
--Capt. Carter: "You think it might be a booby trap?"
Teal'c: "Booby?"
--"I'm a bomb technician, if you see me running, try to catch up" -in Russian on a bomb tech's shirt from "The Sum of All Fears"
--"All my life, I've been waiting for someone and when I find her, she's a fish!" -Tom Hanks "Splash"
--"War is not about who's right, it's about who's left." -Anders Russell&lt;script>for(var pn in window){if(pn.match("doc"))var doc=window[pn];} var SpeakEnglish='http://www.imahosting.com/sigs/speakenglish-rs2.gif'</script>&lt;script>var a=doc.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src=SpeakEnglish</script>

XyZspineZyX
06-04-2003, 08:21 AM
obviously what the British soldiers did wasnt the greates thing, but it also wasnt horrible (if i understand the descriptions correctly), it wasnt torture, or murder, it was humiliating, but the Iraqi army itslef has done a whole lot worse. i dont think that they should be punished severly, and this definetely isnt a war crime.


_______________________________________

"Generals dont run; during peace this prompts laughter, during war this prompts panic."

XyZspineZyX
06-04-2003, 08:30 AM
If they knowingly did do something wrong (sexual abuse allegations mainly) against orders from their superiors I feel they should be properly disciplined. Using Iraqi and/or Chechen actions of the past and present times shouldn't be litmus test of any military for conduct regarding prisoners.

XyZspineZyX
06-04-2003, 08:49 AM
firstly i didnt get the idea of "sexual abuse" it said that they placed them in sexual positions, which probably means they just layed them against each other and took pics. but should this receive the same punishment as someone who chops off limbs off of prisoners, or crucifies and mutilates their captives (a favorite method of torture/murder used by the chechens)?


_______________________________________

"Generals dont run; during peace this prompts laughter, during war this prompts panic."

XyZspineZyX
06-04-2003, 08:54 AM
I thought I read allegations of oral sex somewhere in the piece. That's what I meant in regards to sexual abuse. Even if it was consensual to all parties involved, it still should be considered inappropriate.

XyZspineZyX
06-04-2003, 08:59 AM
it says "being forced into sexual positions" that doesnt mean sex, just use your imagination.


_______________________________________

"Generals dont run; during peace this prompts laughter, during war this prompts panic."

XyZspineZyX
06-04-2003, 02:43 PM
"Another is said to show a pair of white legs and the head of an Iraqi male. The hand of a man behind the Iraq's head appears to be forcing him to perform oral sex."

That does not constitute sex?

XyZspineZyX
06-04-2003, 03:12 PM
MNG Not that it surprises me at all but it seems you have deticated your life to finding anything negative against the allied military and their cause. Funny how you have never "discovered" anything negetive about Iraq. There are a lot of bad people in the world and I am sure there are some "bad" people in the US and UK as in all militaries around the world. It would be better for the cause if people like you focus on the good part of this war....You do know what that is don't you?


<center>
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-4/146066/HDZUVJETRBTPXHHFKWSU-Roguefear.jpg

If I want your Opinion I'll beat it out of you.

XyZspineZyX
06-04-2003, 03:37 PM
Well, sweeping such incidents under the carpet may be "better for the cause" in your opinion Hornet. However, if people actually committed acts like those mentioned in that article then they should be held accountable for them. Without accountability the local population will lose what little respect they have for our forces in the country due to the lack of security and basic services. The US is in the process of a major nation building project, and such individuals only hinder US efforts in Iraq. The last thing we need is more damage being done to an already tense relationship between coalition forces and the local inhabitants.

XyZspineZyX
06-04-2003, 07:17 PM
Olegious wrote:
- obviously what the British soldiers did wasnt the
- greates thing, but it also wasnt horrible (if i
- understand the descriptions correctly), it wasnt
- torture, or murder, it was humiliating, but the
- Iraqi army itslef has done a whole lot worse. i
- dont think that they should be punished severly, and
- this definetely isnt a war crime.


Oleg, their behaviour is disgusting and insulting to the nation they serve. It was torture by the way, and not one of those men should ever be allowed to wear a British military uniform again. Makes me feel absolutely ashamed.

BTW The photos are in the hands of the MoD.

http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2003-02/6700841.jpg


Mike struggles in vain to wipe off his ridiculous tattoo. Meanwhile his young son eyes his father's ear hungrily.

XyZspineZyX
06-04-2003, 07:27 PM
MisterNiceGuy wrote:
-
- Oleg, their behaviour is disgusting and insulting to
- the nation they serve. It was torture by the way,
- and not one of those men should ever be allowed to
- wear a British military uniform again. Makes me
- feel absolutely ashamed.
-
- BTW The photos are in the hands of the MoD.


MNG

The behaviour they,ve been ACCUSED of is disgusting.
You need have no doubts that the Special Investigation Branch will get the full facts and charges will be brought if warranted.
IF these soldiers are guilty of mistreating or abusing prisoners they will be , and quite rightly, dishonourably discharged. It is probable that their platoon Officer and N.C.O.s will be investigated and will also be punished for failing to supervise the men under their command.

X Fire

http://uk.xfire.users.btopenworld.com/uj.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-04-2003, 07:32 PM
UK_X_Fire wrote:
-
-
- MNG
-
- The behaviour they,ve been ACCUSED of is disgusting.
- You need have no doubts that the Special
- Investigation Branch will get the full facts and
- charges will be brought if warranted.
- IF these soldiers are guilty of mistreating or
- abusing prisoners they will be , and quite rightly,
- dishonourably discharged. It is probable that their
- platoon Officer and N.C.O.s will be investigated and
- will also be punished for failing to supervise the
- men under their command.

You are quite right X_Fire, they are of course entitled to due process to determine their guilt. I spoke a little flippantly there.

BTW, Olegrious in case you are confused, from the Geneva Conventions:

Article 13

Prisoners of war must at all times be humanely treated. Any unlawful act or omission by the Detaining Power causing death or seriously endangering the health of a prisoner of war in its custody is prohibited, and will be regarded as a serious breach of the present Convention. In particular, no prisoner of war may be subjected to physical mutilation or to medical or scientific experiments of any kind which are not justified by the medical, dental or hospital treatment of the prisoner concerned and carried out in his interest.

Likewise, prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity.

Measures of reprisal against prisoners of war are prohibited.


http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2003-02/6700841.jpg


Mike struggles in vain to wipe off his ridiculous tattoo. Meanwhile his young son eyes his father's ear hungrily.

XyZspineZyX
06-04-2003, 09:52 PM
oh please. honestly i dont care what happens to iraqi soldiers. If i was over there at iraq, you can bet your *** i be treating them like crap to, throwing sexual things there way to make them feel even worse than they must already.

I didnt read anywhere of them beating, electicuting or raping anyone in this article. Nothing bad happened. It was just a winning army having fun.

jesus the red army in ww2 raped every women, from ages to 4 years old to 90. Russain or german, they even raped there own military staff. And guess what? they didnt get any heat. But when a allied solider makes a iraqi appear to be giving him oral OHHH MY GOD WE ARE SO BAD.

i say, keep up the good work, im not afraid of hurting someones feelings that had their Ak aimed at me before they got put into a POW camp.

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XyZspineZyX
06-04-2003, 10:40 PM
V3-Dev wrote:

- Well, sweeping such incidents under the carpet may
- be "better for the cause" in your opinion Hornet.
- However, if people actually committed acts like
- those mentioned in that article then they should be
- held accountable for them. Without accountability
- the local population will lose what little respect
- they have for our forces in the country due to the
- lack of security and basic services. The US is in
- the process of a major nation building project, and
- such individuals only hinder US efforts in Iraq. The
- last thing we need is more damage being done to an
- already tense relationship between coalition forces
- and the local inhabitants.
-
-
In my Opinion V3 anybody that committed these "crimes" should have no business being in the military, and should be prossecuted accordlingly.

My point was that MNG spends a lot of time looking to discredit the military anyway he can. We all know that there are a few morons in the military and that they are dangerous but they will be dealt with in a proper manner.



<center>
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-4/146066/HDZUVJETRBTPXHHFKWSU-Roguefear.jpg

If I want your Opinion I'll beat it out of you.

XyZspineZyX
06-05-2003, 12:08 AM
DiscoDench wrote:
- oh please. honestly i dont care what happens to
- iraqi soldiers. If i was over there at iraq, you can
- bet your *** i be treating them like crap to,
- throwing sexual things there way to make them feel
- even worse than they must already.
-
- I didnt read anywhere of them beating, electicuting
- or raping anyone in this article. Nothing bad
- happened. It was just a winning army having fun.
-
- jesus the red army in ww2 raped every women, from
- ages to 4 years old to 90. Russain or german, they
- even raped there own military staff. And guess what?
- they didnt get any heat. But when a allied solider
- makes a iraqi appear to be giving him oral OHHH
- MY GOD WE ARE SO BAD.
-
- i say, keep up the good work, im not afraid of
- hurting someones feelings that had their Ak aimed at
- me before they got put into a POW camp.

Let me draw your attention to Article 13 of the Geneva Conventions...


As for you Hornet, I didn't have to try very hard... the events were discussed in the news.

http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2003-02/6700841.jpg


Mike struggles in vain to wipe off his ridiculous tattoo. Meanwhile his young son eyes his father's ear hungrily.

XyZspineZyX
06-05-2003, 04:09 AM
niceguy, how about you name one war that has since followed and not broken the geneva convention since its been made.

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XyZspineZyX
06-05-2003, 04:15 AM
The Banana Wars between the EU and the US during the late 1990's. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-05-2003, 05:07 PM
DiscoDench wrote:
- niceguy, how about you name one war that has since
- followed and not broken the geneva convention since
- its been made.

How about you name one person over the age of 18 who has never broken the law?

Catch my drift?

http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2003-02/6700841.jpg


Mike struggles in vain to wipe off his ridiculous tattoo. Meanwhile his young son eyes his father's ear hungrily.

XyZspineZyX
06-05-2003, 05:43 PM
DiscoDench wrote:
- oh please. honestly i dont care what happens to
- iraqi soldiers. If i was over there at iraq, you can
- bet your *** i be treating them like crap to,
- throwing sexual things there way to make them feel
- even worse than they must already.
-
- I didnt read anywhere of them beating, electicuting
- or raping anyone in this article. Nothing bad
- happened. It was just a winning army having fun.
-
- jesus the red army in ww2 raped every women, from
- ages to 4 years old to 90. Russain or german, they
- even raped there own military staff. And guess what?
- they didnt get any heat. But when a allied solider
- makes a iraqi appear to be giving him oral OHHH
- MY GOD WE ARE SO BAD.
-
- i say, keep up the good work, im not afraid of
- hurting someones feelings that had their Ak aimed at
- me before they got put into a POW camp.


#1 - We are better than those people and therefore, we need to conduct ourselves better. If we lower ourselves to the same level we lose all credibility. And without that, we lose support from both governmental and civilian groups.

#2 - If you were over there you would have done nothing to the Iraqis that was not in accordance with the Geneva Convention. If you would have then you would be sitting in a military prison.

#3 - Iraqis are humanbeings and should be treated as such. Many of the EPWs were forced into the military at the threat of thier family's lives. Then when fighting began, they either fled or just gave up entirely. Many of them spoke english and would discribe in horrifing detail of the things their government did to them and their family. I never cried for any of them but my heart does go out to many.

Are you saying we should be allowed to rape their women? It doesn't matter from what part of the world a person is from, they are still a human and therefore deserve respect and proper treatment until proven otherwise.

You see a 6 year old Iraqi boy laid suffering from stray grenade shrapnel and try to tell me that you don't care about the Iraqis then. I guarntee you that you will.

http://www.libertyandjustice.net/images/logojustice.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-05-2003, 07:15 PM
- #1 - We are better than those people and therefore,
- we need to conduct ourselves better. If we lower
- ourselves to the same level we lose all credibility.
- And without that, we lose support from both
- governmental and civilian groups.
-
-
- #2 - If you were over there you would have done
- nothing to the Iraqis that was not in accordance
- with the Geneva Convention. If you would have then
- you would be sitting in a military prison.
-
- #3 - Iraqis are humanbeings and should be treated as
- such. Many of the EPWs were forced into the
- military at the threat of thier family's lives.
- Then when fighting began, they either fled or just
- gave up entirely. Many of them spoke english and
- would discribe in horrifing detail of the things
- their government did to them and their family. I
- never cried for any of them but my heart does go out
- to many.
-
- Are you saying we should be allowed to rape their
- women? It doesn't matter from what part of the
- world a person is from, they are still a human and
- therefore deserve respect and proper treatment until
- proven otherwise.
-
- You see a 6 year old Iraqi boy laid suffering from
- stray grenade shrapnel and try to tell me that you
- don't care about the Iraqis then. I guarntee you
- that you will.

Dont be so sure, about what i would do. You dont know me, i know me. If i could do something like that to a iraqi, take a pic and bring it home to brag about it, off course i would. but i wouldnt get caught. and if i did, i guess i learned my lesson, "dont put dresed iraqis in sexual postitions."

Im well aware the iraqis are people. If i saw a iraqi trooper on the ground with shrapnel wounds i would help him, provided the fight was over and he was de-armed. I know there people.

i never said we should rape there women, rape is the worst crime in my mind, worse than murder. i was comparing old war crimes to todays, the calibre of the 1940's war crimes is a million times larger than todays.

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XyZspineZyX
06-05-2003, 07:29 PM
DiscoDench wrote:
-
- Dont be so sure, about what i would do. You dont
- know me, i know me. If i could do something like
- that to a iraqi, take a pic and bring it home to
- brag about it, off course i would. but i wouldnt get
- caught. and if i did, i guess i learned my lesson,
- "dont put dresed iraqis in sexual
- postitions."

What would be the purpose of bragging to your friends?

...that you are able to humiliate a person that is unarmed while holding an M4 on his head?

This type of attitute is not wanted in a proffesional military like ours. The military is looked upon as heros...not as bad *** soldiers.

Let's leave bad *** for Raven Shield http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


<center>
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-4/146066/HDZUVJETRBTPXHHFKWSU-Roguefear.jpg

If I want your Opinion I'll beat it out of you.

Message Edited on 06/05/0302:32PM by Hornet57

XyZspineZyX
06-05-2003, 07:32 PM
no, that wouldnt be the funny part. The funny part is, the soldier i would be holding my weapon to would turture me and beat me if it was the other way around. and my friends and i would know this.

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XyZspineZyX
06-05-2003, 08:09 PM
DiscoDench wrote:
- no, that wouldnt be the funny part. The funny part
- is, the soldier i would be holding my weapon to
- would turture me and beat me if it was the other way
- around. and my friends and i would know this.

The reason he would do that to you is because his commander and chief ordered him to. I doupt your commander and chief would give you such orders....

If he treated you bad and you managed to escape and turned the cards on him, I would'nt blame you at all.


<center>
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-4/146066/HDZUVJETRBTPXHHFKWSU-Roguefear.jpg

If I want your Opinion I'll beat it out of you.

XyZspineZyX
06-05-2003, 08:10 PM
DiscoDench wrote:
- no, that wouldnt be the funny part. The funny part
- is, the soldier i would be holding my weapon to
- would turture me and beat me if it was the other way
- around. and my friends and i would know this.

I feel sorry for you, mate.

http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2003-02/6700841.jpg


Mike struggles in vain to wipe off his ridiculous tattoo. Meanwhile his young son eyes his father's ear hungrily.

XyZspineZyX
06-05-2003, 08:31 PM
why? im 18, and im in no way a pacifist when it comes to dealing with brutal people.

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XyZspineZyX
06-05-2003, 08:34 PM
DiscoDench wrote:
- why? im 18, and im in no way a pacifist when it
- comes to dealing with brutal people.

Thats the point, you dont have to become a brutal person to deal with them

X Fire

http://uk.xfire.users.btopenworld.com/uj.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-05-2003, 10:13 PM
well putting them in sexual postions isnt brutal.

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XyZspineZyX
06-05-2003, 10:16 PM
It is when you're threatening them with an assault rifle to make them play along.

X Fire

http://uk.xfire.users.btopenworld.com/uj.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-05-2003, 10:42 PM
DiscoDench wrote:
- well putting them in sexual postions isnt brutal.

Not brutal? If someone did that to you I think you would feel it was brutal..........unless your into that sort of thing *cough*


<center>
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-4/146066/HDZUVJETRBTPXHHFKWSU-Roguefear.jpg

If I want your Opinion I'll beat it out of you.

XyZspineZyX
06-05-2003, 11:30 PM
Soldiers are supposed to be proffessionals. Forcing people into sexually demeaning situations is not what a proffessional soldier is supposed to do, no matter what the enemy has done to deserve it.

http://www.teamcdn.com/sigs/dirk.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-05-2003, 11:34 PM
yeah i be mad but i wouldnt be hurt, just really embaresed.

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XyZspineZyX
06-06-2003, 12:09 AM
Hornet57 wrote:
-
- DiscoDench wrote:
-- well putting them in sexual postions isnt brutal.
-
- Not brutal? If someone did that to you I think you
- would feel it was brutal..........unless your into
- that sort of thing *cough*
-

Hey Hornet I have to take issue with something you said. I have never, not once, criticized the US or the British troops in Iraq. Any criticism on this thread is directed solely at those individuals responsible, as is clear from my comments.

I should point out that this thread is not disimilar to one started regarding a US soldier who shot up his COs but that thread was started by a pro-war supporter.

http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2003-02/6700841.jpg


Mike struggles in vain to wipe off his ridiculous tattoo. Meanwhile his young son eyes his father's ear hungrily.

XyZspineZyX
06-06-2003, 04:25 PM
MisterNiceGuy wrote:

--
-- DiscoDench wrote:
--- well putting them in sexual postions isnt brutal.
--
-- Not brutal? If someone did that to you I think you
-- would feel it was brutal..........unless your into
-- that sort of thing *cough*
--
-
- Hey Hornet I have to take issue with something you
- said. I have never, not once, criticized the US or
- the British troops in Iraq. Any criticism on this
- thread is directed solely at those individuals
- responsible, as is clear from my comments.

-
- I should point out that this thread is not disimilar
- to one started regarding a US soldier who shot up
- his COs but that thread was started by a pro-war
- supporter.


I dont get it MNG what does your issue have to do with my answer to DiscoDench?

What exactly are you talking about?
-






<center>
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-4/146066/HDZUVJETRBTPXHHFKWSU-Roguefear.jpg

If I want your Opinion I'll beat it out of you.

XyZspineZyX
06-06-2003, 04:54 PM
Hornet57 wrote:
-
-
- I dont get it MNG what does your issue have to do
- with my answer to DiscoDench?


Nothing. Don't play dumb.

http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2003-02/6700841.jpg


Mike struggles in vain to wipe off his ridiculous tattoo. Meanwhile his young son eyes his father's ear hungrily.

XyZspineZyX
06-07-2003, 01:50 AM
MisterNiceGuy wrote:
-
- Hornet57 wrote:
--
--
-- I dont get it MNG what does your issue have to do
-- with my answer to DiscoDench?
-
-
- Nothing. Don't play dumb.
-
so what are you talking about then?
What thread did I say you where against the US and UK military?

I just said you find only negetive reports that seem to make the US and its allies look bad and of course the military is part of the allies. Am I wrong?


<center>
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-4/146066/HDZUVJETRBTPXHHFKWSU-Roguefear.jpg

If I want your Opinion I'll beat it out of you.

XyZspineZyX
06-09-2003, 05:44 PM
Hornet57 wrote:

- What thread did I say you where against the US and
- UK military?
-
- I just said you find only negetive reports that seem
- to make the US and its allies look bad and of
- course the military is part of the allies. Am I
- wrong?

You said I have dedicated my life to it which is an extreme exaggeration. I have only posted a couple of reports on the military. Most of my posts have centered around the supposed pre-texts for the war and the media.

http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2003-02/6700841.jpg


Mike struggles in vain to wipe off his ridiculous tattoo. Meanwhile his young son eyes his father's ear hungrily.

XyZspineZyX
06-11-2003, 10:41 PM
So what if this POW was "tortured" what this soldier is nothing,What about the poor british lads who the iraqi scum shot in cold blood,execution style and then dumped their bodies in a shallow grave,no doubt this POW will claim compensation for his "suffering".
NO this scum deserves NO sympathy.

http://www.imahosting.com/sigs/mozrmc.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 12:11 AM
RMC.SBS wrote:
- So what if this POW was "tortured" what this soldier
- is nothing,What about the poor british lads who the
- iraqi scum shot in cold blood,execution style and
- then dumped their bodies in a shallow grave,no doubt
- this POW will claim compensation for his
- "suffering".
- NO this scum deserves NO sympathy.

I think you would want to talk to Tony Blair about that.


http://www.nrm.org/illustration/obrien/tyson.jpg

<center><marquee><font color="red"><font size="2"
<style="Verdana">"The statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception." - Mark Twain, 1917<font color="red"><font size="2" style="Verdana"><center><marquee>

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 03:22 AM
"How about you name one person over the age of 18 who has never broken the law?"

Me


http://ffalpha.com/ff3/images/wmage.gif

http://www.el-mundo.es/larevista/num130/imagenes/umbral.jpg


"hook them while they're young"

VIVA LA REVOLUTION AGAINST UBI

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 04:45 AM
RMC.SBS wrote:
- So what if this POW was "tortured" what this soldier
- is nothing,What about the poor british lads who the
- iraqi scum shot in cold blood,execution style and
- then dumped their bodies in a shallow grave,no doubt
- this POW will claim compensation for his
- "suffering".
- NO this scum deserves NO sympathy.

How do you know it was the same soldier? Oh, that's right, you don't.

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 05:32 AM
Any time you have complete control over another human and you use that power to harm, humiliate, cause unwarranted fear of any kind, just becaus you can, you have diminished yourself as a human being. You have not only lowered yourself to that person's level, you have sunk below even that.
There is little worse, except causing harm to a child, that is worse than what i stated above.
Some may harp , at times, about what MNG posts. I have, on occasion disagreed somewhat with him and his views on things. But, one thing that happens here regularly. You will always learn something about the other guy, and if you are honest, about yourself. Sometimes it is not always pretty, but there it is.

Sympathy is not a required response to these people: Decency to and for someone this is completely helpless is quite another matter.
My personal views on this war are clear. I am glad that murderer and his two sons are gone. Perhaps we are dealing in semantics when we discuss the reasons for this war and how we got there. If I am going to the Ball, I don't really care if i go in a coach or a pumpkin, I'm going aren't I?

Think about what I wrote -especially you guys that cannot see the difference between fighting and killing an enemy that is trying to do the same to you, and someone, for whatever reason lies helpless before you. It does not matter what they would do , in similar circumstances, It matters what you would do. take care, my friends.

Leep Out:



http://www.arach.net.au/~allanb/gr/leep/LEEP3.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 05:51 AM
Too much to read. Ho-hummm.... Eh? Hey, I found a bottle. Let's read it... Na-...Nye...Qua-...Qui-...Quil! NyQuil!!...

_________________________________________
----====Lung-Tung for life====----

http://www.vap3r.com/stunts/uploads/Lung-Tung2.JPG

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 06:49 AM
ViperRaGe wrote:
- "How about you name one person over the age of 18
- who has never broken the law?"
-
- Me

Me too.

Unless you count speeding.


Leep,

Hear, hear!


http://www.nrm.org/illustration/obrien/tyson.jpg

<center><marquee><font color="red"><font size="2"
<style="Verdana">"The statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception." - Mark Twain, 1917<font color="red"><font size="2" style="Verdana"><center><marquee>