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Old_Canuck
01-18-2004, 06:45 AM
http://www.vbs-ddps.ch/internet/luftwaffe/en/home/about/history/krieg.Par.0005.Image.TextImage0001.0.gif/2welt05.gif http://www.vbs-ddps.ch/internet/luftwaffe/en/home/about/history/krieg.Par.0007.Image.TextImage0001.0.gif/2welt07.gif
How's this for an historical plane-set: Bf-109s and FW-190s Vs Me 110s, He-111s and Ju-88s?

It happened when the Luftwaffe had violated neutral airspace over Switzerland during WWII.

=============================================
From Martin Caidin's "Me 109"

"One of the stranger sides to the history of the Me-109 belongs to those fighters that were sent to Switzerland, for these aircraft were used on many occasions to attack both German and American fighters and bombers! The Swiss used everything from the Me-109C up through the G model, although the latter , suffering from poor workmanship plaguing the 109 production lines, were grounded so often they saw little service with the Swiss Air Force. The others, however, established a history of brisk fighting with machines that crossed the Swiss borders.

The first open combat took place on 10th May 1940, when a Swiss Me-109E on patrol intercepted a Ju-88 flying in the direction of Basie. Marked with brilliant red-and-white striping, the Swiss 109E fired a burst of tracers across the nose of the Junkers. Immediately the bomber gunners returned the fire. The Swiss pilot swung around in full attack and the Ju-88 shied off, its crew running for nearby clouds to make good their escape. Later that same day another Swiss 109E found itself exchanging deliberate fire with a German bomber. This time the Swiss pilot attacked a Heinkel He-111 near Altenrheim and shot out one engine; the Swiss pilot ceased his firing when the German bomber crossed the border. Other fighters one week later, near Lignieres, pursued another He-111 and when the bomber fired back vigorously, the Me-109Es closed in and shot down the airplane. What had begun as a war of nerves and brief exchanges of gunfire had become a campaign. Swiss 109s were taking off on emergency scrambles as the Germans ignored the legality of Swiss airspace. Under orders to press home their attacks the Swiss pilots, before the month was out, shot down two more He-111 bombers, near Ursins and Lutter.

When the Swiss ignored Goering's bellicose threats of retaliation, the Luftwaffe was ordered to teach the little country a sharp lesson. Starting during the first week of June 1940, formations of He-111 bombers appeared over Switzerland accompanied by strong forces of Me-110 twin-engined fighters. The stage was now set for fierce air battles between German aircraft on both sides - with Swiss 109s against Luftwaffe 110s. If there was any question that the Me-110 was a failure as a long-range fighter the Swiss ended the doubts. Two Me-110s and one He-111 went down before the guns of the out-numbered but fiercely fighting Swiss pilots, who lost only one of their own number, an Me-109C (Swiss - J-399). The pilot bailed out but with a parachute ripped by German fire the canopy failed to deploy and he was killed. Swiss reaction was, understandably, rather violent.

Within four days the enraged Germans were back, looking for anything in the air with Swiss markings. Six Me-110s swarmed against a biplane and blew it out of the air. That same day Swiss fighter-control received word that thirty-two Me-110 fighters were orbiting in a wide pattern and at different heights about the Jura Mountains, openly daring the Swiss to come up and fight. The first Swiss aircraft to reach the scene, mainly to confirm the reports of the enemy, found themselves attacked by a diving swarm of Me-110s. Immediately the Swiss pilots dove into nearby clouds, intending to break out on the other side of the clouds and hit the Germans unexpectedly from another quarter. It didn't work; the veteran Me-110 pilots simply turned and set up their trap and as the Swiss 109Es emerged from the clouds they stumbled into a storm of heavy cannon and machine gun fire.

One Swiss pilot, his Me-109E riddled from nose to tail, and himself wounded with bullets in his lungs and his legs, managed a crash landing, which he survived. The second 109E shot up the Me-110 that had delivered the damage to his wingman but had to break off combat when Me-110s began firing from all sides. The Swiss pilot dove at full throttle into a steep ravine hoping the Germans would follow. The latter wanted no part of flying down an unknown gorge and gave up pursuit.

What the Swiss pilot didn't know, but found out soon, was that his aim was better than he'd believed. Minutes after he landed he learned the Me-110 had been crippled by his fire and the twin-engined fighter had crash-landed successfully, the crew being taken prisoner. That, however, was only the first phase of the air battle still building up.

Twelve more Swiss 190Es, scrambled to the scene, hit the Me-110s in a fierce diving attack. The Swiss formation broke up and a wild dogfight over the mountains spread airplanes for miles in every direction. When the melee ended all the Swiss fighters were in the air, but three more Me-110s had gone down, crashing on Swiss soil" (pp 145-147).

===========================================

If you're still interested, here's a link to an air museum in Switzerland with some photos:

http://www.vbs-ddps.ch/internet/luftwaffe/en/home/about/history/krieg.html

OC

"You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing."

[This message was edited by Old_Canuck on Sun January 18 2004 at 05:54 AM.]

[This message was edited by Old_Canuck on Sun January 18 2004 at 05:59 AM.]

Old_Canuck
01-18-2004, 06:45 AM
http://www.vbs-ddps.ch/internet/luftwaffe/en/home/about/history/krieg.Par.0005.Image.TextImage0001.0.gif/2welt05.gif http://www.vbs-ddps.ch/internet/luftwaffe/en/home/about/history/krieg.Par.0007.Image.TextImage0001.0.gif/2welt07.gif
How's this for an historical plane-set: Bf-109s and FW-190s Vs Me 110s, He-111s and Ju-88s?

It happened when the Luftwaffe had violated neutral airspace over Switzerland during WWII.

=============================================
From Martin Caidin's "Me 109"

"One of the stranger sides to the history of the Me-109 belongs to those fighters that were sent to Switzerland, for these aircraft were used on many occasions to attack both German and American fighters and bombers! The Swiss used everything from the Me-109C up through the G model, although the latter , suffering from poor workmanship plaguing the 109 production lines, were grounded so often they saw little service with the Swiss Air Force. The others, however, established a history of brisk fighting with machines that crossed the Swiss borders.

The first open combat took place on 10th May 1940, when a Swiss Me-109E on patrol intercepted a Ju-88 flying in the direction of Basie. Marked with brilliant red-and-white striping, the Swiss 109E fired a burst of tracers across the nose of the Junkers. Immediately the bomber gunners returned the fire. The Swiss pilot swung around in full attack and the Ju-88 shied off, its crew running for nearby clouds to make good their escape. Later that same day another Swiss 109E found itself exchanging deliberate fire with a German bomber. This time the Swiss pilot attacked a Heinkel He-111 near Altenrheim and shot out one engine; the Swiss pilot ceased his firing when the German bomber crossed the border. Other fighters one week later, near Lignieres, pursued another He-111 and when the bomber fired back vigorously, the Me-109Es closed in and shot down the airplane. What had begun as a war of nerves and brief exchanges of gunfire had become a campaign. Swiss 109s were taking off on emergency scrambles as the Germans ignored the legality of Swiss airspace. Under orders to press home their attacks the Swiss pilots, before the month was out, shot down two more He-111 bombers, near Ursins and Lutter.

When the Swiss ignored Goering's bellicose threats of retaliation, the Luftwaffe was ordered to teach the little country a sharp lesson. Starting during the first week of June 1940, formations of He-111 bombers appeared over Switzerland accompanied by strong forces of Me-110 twin-engined fighters. The stage was now set for fierce air battles between German aircraft on both sides - with Swiss 109s against Luftwaffe 110s. If there was any question that the Me-110 was a failure as a long-range fighter the Swiss ended the doubts. Two Me-110s and one He-111 went down before the guns of the out-numbered but fiercely fighting Swiss pilots, who lost only one of their own number, an Me-109C (Swiss - J-399). The pilot bailed out but with a parachute ripped by German fire the canopy failed to deploy and he was killed. Swiss reaction was, understandably, rather violent.

Within four days the enraged Germans were back, looking for anything in the air with Swiss markings. Six Me-110s swarmed against a biplane and blew it out of the air. That same day Swiss fighter-control received word that thirty-two Me-110 fighters were orbiting in a wide pattern and at different heights about the Jura Mountains, openly daring the Swiss to come up and fight. The first Swiss aircraft to reach the scene, mainly to confirm the reports of the enemy, found themselves attacked by a diving swarm of Me-110s. Immediately the Swiss pilots dove into nearby clouds, intending to break out on the other side of the clouds and hit the Germans unexpectedly from another quarter. It didn't work; the veteran Me-110 pilots simply turned and set up their trap and as the Swiss 109Es emerged from the clouds they stumbled into a storm of heavy cannon and machine gun fire.

One Swiss pilot, his Me-109E riddled from nose to tail, and himself wounded with bullets in his lungs and his legs, managed a crash landing, which he survived. The second 109E shot up the Me-110 that had delivered the damage to his wingman but had to break off combat when Me-110s began firing from all sides. The Swiss pilot dove at full throttle into a steep ravine hoping the Germans would follow. The latter wanted no part of flying down an unknown gorge and gave up pursuit.

What the Swiss pilot didn't know, but found out soon, was that his aim was better than he'd believed. Minutes after he landed he learned the Me-110 had been crippled by his fire and the twin-engined fighter had crash-landed successfully, the crew being taken prisoner. That, however, was only the first phase of the air battle still building up.

Twelve more Swiss 190Es, scrambled to the scene, hit the Me-110s in a fierce diving attack. The Swiss formation broke up and a wild dogfight over the mountains spread airplanes for miles in every direction. When the melee ended all the Swiss fighters were in the air, but three more Me-110s had gone down, crashing on Swiss soil" (pp 145-147).

===========================================

If you're still interested, here's a link to an air museum in Switzerland with some photos:

http://www.vbs-ddps.ch/internet/luftwaffe/en/home/about/history/krieg.html

OC

"You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing."

[This message was edited by Old_Canuck on Sun January 18 2004 at 05:54 AM.]

[This message was edited by Old_Canuck on Sun January 18 2004 at 05:59 AM.]

Cloyd
01-18-2004, 07:00 AM
OC,

There is a mini-campaign based on these events, complete with Swiss skins for the 109's. IIRC, it was made by Gaston. It's probably available at the check-six site.

Cloyd

Old_Canuck
01-18-2004, 07:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cloyd:
OC,

There is a mini-campaign based on these events, complete with Swiss skins for the 109's. IIRC, it was made by Gaston. It's probably available at the check-six site.

Cloyd<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

TY ... on my way http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

OC

"You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing."

StihlCanuk
01-18-2004, 12:05 PM
Great stuff,OC.I enjoy reading your historical posts. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Rodger,go with throttle up...

Old_Canuck
01-18-2004, 03:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by StihlCanuk:
Great stuff,OC.I enjoy reading your historical posts. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Rodger,go with throttle up...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My pleasure http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

OC

"You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing."

p1ngu666
01-18-2004, 03:16 PM
do the swiss speak french? soz, i dunno hence asking http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
grab the french voice pack while u there