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View Full Version : Carrier Landings!!!!!



RAAF-IL2_Shark
04-01-2004, 06:29 PM
This is the big thing that is missing in The IL-2 Series. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif
I cant wait to try it as implimented by Oleg. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
It should be a real challenge after an action packed mission to do a visual trap ,NO ILS , battle damage and just the paddle guy for help!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

You cant have a Pacific sim without it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

RAAF-IL2_Shark
04-01-2004, 06:29 PM
This is the big thing that is missing in The IL-2 Series. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif
I cant wait to try it as implimented by Oleg. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
It should be a real challenge after an action packed mission to do a visual trap ,NO ILS , battle damage and just the paddle guy for help!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

You cant have a Pacific sim without it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

Cage50
04-01-2004, 07:17 PM
...but oh...what about the possibility of accidently miscalculating time back to your carrier...navigation to and landing on a lights out deck at night..

Mitlov47
04-01-2004, 08:05 PM
I'm pretty thrilled about this.

I'm a cr*p dogfighter, but pretty good at landing damaged aircraft. And I enjoy landings as much as I enjoy fighting. I'm PSYCHED doing carrier landings. The last time I landed an airplane on a carrier (in a sim, of course), a new band called "Pearl Jam" had just shocked the world with their first album...

---------------------------

P-63C -- "Jackie's Strength"
P-47D-27 -- "The Happy Phantom"

Eagerly awaiting the SBD Dauntless and F6F Hellcat.

heywooood
04-01-2004, 09:24 PM
Foul weather.. a pitching flight deck.. an empty fueltank..sputtering engine... a damaged rudder.. and you -trying to get your TBF Avenger down on the deck in the pitch darkness without killing anyone else today..

RAC_Pips
04-02-2004, 05:29 PM
bear in mnd that only the USN used LSO's. Both the IJNAf and the RN used a landing light system. Hopefully they too will be included in the game.

mike_espo
04-02-2004, 05:40 PM
With maps large enough, it could be a problem even finding carriers. In the Coral Sea battle, a large Japanese strike force lost a large number of planes as they could not find the Carriers as it was getting dark...

Can't wait!!!!

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

FZG_Immel
04-02-2004, 06:22 PM
espo, Furlan ?

http://merlin555.free.fr/f15/tgsign3.gif

mike_espo
04-02-2004, 08:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FZG_Immel:
espo, Furlan ?

http://merlin555.free.fr/f15/tgsign3.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

?????

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

BSS_Vidar
04-03-2004, 01:17 AM
S! all,
The Blacksheep are all looking forward to this in great anticipation. I'm a retired Navy flyer that has taught the majority of the BSS and some VF-2 gents how to fly around the ship properly and to recover a formation of planes correctly. Anyone or any Squadrons wanting to learn how to do this like it's suppose to be done, don't hesitate to ask any of the Blacksheep.
Here's our Carrier Ops and formation guide...

http://www.blacksheep214.com/cq/cq.htm

It is based off US Navy carrier operations (ref:CV NATOPS Manuel)as far as getting aboard the ship in the most effective manner.

S!

BSS_Vidar
Blscksheep CO

robbiminator
04-03-2004, 11:32 AM
It most certainly will be a challenge-I can't remember how often I've overshot the landing strip! Hopefully, a decent tutorial will be included.

heywooood
04-03-2004, 11:39 AM
It has to be one of the most difficult undertakings that a man & machine together have ever had to do.. especially in that era.

Yes - in any era.. as jets were introduced and the gross weight increased and the thrust to weight ratios were slighter.. in the Korean conflict era.. but this was the first generation of carrier operations and a lot of the methods were born in WWII.

huggy87
04-03-2004, 12:17 PM
Hi Vidar,
What did you fly in the fleet and when?

cheers, Huggy

XyZspineZyX
04-03-2004, 01:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by robbiminator:
It most certainly will be a challenge-I can't remember how often I've overshot the landing strip! Hopefully, a decent tutorial will be included.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm hoping that there will be either training missions or QMB mission specificaly for carrier ops. When I got CFS2 I spent a week learning how to land on the carrier correctly. It was without a doubt the toughest part of the game (for me). I do hope that they will model at least to some degree poor weather landing conditions. (Pitching deck etc.)
Also considering the difficulty in ID'ing a/c in FB, how would they handle the LSO? Like they did in CFS2? a small box in the corner of the screen? The paddles are bright, maybe they could model them a little 'larger' than actual size? I play at 1290 x 960 and things are small that way!



http://www.il2airracing.com/images/IL2AirRacing.gif
http://www.il2airracing.com/

mike_espo
04-03-2004, 01:26 PM
It is interesting that the Imperial Navy did not use LSOs Instead, they used a system of lights near the stern of the carrier that allowed the pilots to guide themselves down. There were two seperate rows of lights that were at different heights, one red the other blue. The object was to keep these rows of lights aligned that allowed the pilots to have the correct glide angle for touchdown; about 5 or 6 degrees.

I wonder if Luthier will model this...

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

RxMan
04-03-2004, 04:12 PM
In IL-2 I usually come in so hot I kill my engine on final, that'll make me think 2 or 20 times before doing it.!!!

BSS_Vidar
04-03-2004, 04:15 PM
I flew in S-3B Vikings, I retired July 2002 with over 2,000 hrs and 526 arrested landings on seven different carriers.

http://www.blacksheep214.com/profiles2.html

That's me in front on the jet with my name on it just before my very last cat shot off Big E.
Flying carrier ops with guys wanting to learn how its really done keeps those memories close. The guys absolutly eat it up and love the challenge.

Vidar

huggy87
04-03-2004, 04:56 PM
@Vidar. Congrats on the retirement. 1200 hours and 300 traps myself. I think when this sim comes out I will have to pass on the carrier landings. It will feel to much like work. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif V/r Huggy

BSS_Vidar
04-03-2004, 06:39 PM
LOL Rgr dat Huggy! LOL

Just for old times sake, you'll have to join us for CQ http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif I think you'll be impressed with the bunch of civies in BSS and their knowlege on CV NATOPS lol

S!

Vidar

btw, I use Vidar as a callsign because that was the radio callsign of my squadron, the VS-22 Checkmates.

RedDeth
04-03-2004, 07:56 PM
RETIRED? heck your only a year older than me lol!!! retired my backside. what you doing now vidar? flying planes of some sort still?

all i get to do is fly cessna 152s http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of 12 time Champions AFJ http://www.alloutwar.com/IL2FS/round9.cfm http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_120_1065509034.jpg

BSS_Vidar
04-03-2004, 10:41 PM
Actually yes I am. I'm working on my Commercial/ATP ticket and doing it all in the twin-engine Piper Senica . Also going to school which is all part of an aviation sciences degree. The VA is paying for everthing due to bad enjuries I sustained during an ejection in Oct'89. They won't send me to commercial training unless some college is involved, so back to school for me at 39 years old. lol.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

Vidar

huggy87
04-04-2004, 10:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BSS_Vidar:
LOL Rgr dat Huggy! LOL

Just for old times sake, you'll have to join us for CQ http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif I think you'll be impressed with the bunch of civies in BSS and their knowlege on CV NATOPS lol

S!

Vidar

btw, I use Vidar as a callsign because that was the radio callsign of my squadron, the VS-22 Checkmates.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks, but no thanks. I think those civies would embarass me. I'm a little rusty being on an instructor tour, and my jacket was always strangely barren of top ten patches anyway.

Fliger747
04-04-2004, 11:15 AM
Vidar:

Good luck with the Comercial/ATP. I did that in a Seneca about 20 years ago, at almost the same age (36) and have added about 15,000 more hours to my log since in everything from supercubs to 747's. A good friend who retired from the USMC as an O6 threw his back out raking leaves one day and ended up needing surgery. His back had just too many years of high G manuvers and one leaf too many!

I look forward to the carrier ops in this sim. The current CFSII carrier ops with the 1% planes are realy a gas. With the improvements that are possible on that sim, this could be really spectacular.

BSS_Vidar
04-04-2004, 04:08 PM
Thnx for the words of encouragement 747. I hope my civilian career is as fruitful as yours!

Huggy, you got plenty of time to change your mind lol. If you have CFS2, bag a few in there to get "Back in the Grove". We have a 16 and a 19 year old (our only 2 under-aged members) that fly CV Case-1 Recovery like real pro's.

S!

Vidar

Fliger747
04-04-2004, 07:42 PM
I once heard:

"A man should have two goals in life; to make as much money as your neighbor (or ex-wife) thinks you do; to be the man your DOG thinks you are!"

I have flown with a lot of Navy Pilots and they are very professional aviators. Though some will fly a perfect approach right down to catching the "third wire" (ouch!).

T_O_A_D
04-04-2004, 08:49 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif Carrier Landings WOOO HOO!!! I can't wait to get back into that!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Have you checked your Private Topics recently? (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=ugtpc&s=400102)
131st_Toad's Squad link (http://www.geocities.com/vfw_131st/)
My TrackIR fix, Read the whole thread (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=49310655&m=15310285&p=1)
2.11 drivers (http://home.mchsi.com/~131st-vfw/NaturalPoint_trackIR_2_11.exe)
http://home.mchsi.com/~131st_vfw/T_O_A_D.jpg

tigerroach
04-06-2004, 08:20 AM
Has there been any word from the devs on whether functioning LSO's / landing lights will be modeled? Sure would be tough without them, or with a goofed-up LSO like CFS2.

Tully__
04-06-2004, 09:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tigerroach:
Has there been any word from the devs on whether functioning LSO's / landing lights will be modeled? Sure would be tough without them, or with a goofed-up LSO like CFS2.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do a search on LSO, it's come up in a couple of threads...

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Salut
Tully

ckur
04-07-2004, 02:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mike_espo:
With maps large enough, it could be a problem even finding carriers.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The US Navy used "hayrake" to find the ship, I wonder if this could be modelled somehow in the game. It was a radio beacon that sent different morse code letter in each main compass direction to let the pilot know where the ship was.

RAAF-IL2_Shark
04-07-2004, 07:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ckur:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mike_espo:
With maps large enough, it could be a problem even finding carriers.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The US Navy used "hayrake" to find the ship, I wonder if this could be modelled somehow in the game. It was a radio beacon that sent different morse code letter in each main compass direction to let the pilot know where the ship was.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you have any more details on this system, the date the USN started using it etc?
Sounds interesting.

Fliger747
04-07-2004, 12:37 PM
I always heard this refered to as the "YF" beacon. My recollection was that it was used from at least the start of the war in the Pacific. However enough aviators failed to find the ship and ran out of gas to make me suspect that it was not always turned on (for low radio observibility), or that the equipment was tempermental. If I find and reference I'll pass it on.

heywooood
04-07-2004, 02:35 PM
Thats it - YF beacon... I didnt recocnize "hayrake".. navy pilot nicknames..

I do remember reading a pilot account about the YF signal being unreliable.. better than nothing but not by much.

RAAF-IL2_Shark
04-07-2004, 09:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fliger747:
I always heard this refered to as the "YF" beacon. My recollection was that it was used from at least the start of the war in the Pacific. However enough aviators failed to find the ship and ran out of gas to make me suspect that it was not always turned on (for low radio observibility), or that the equipment was tempermental. If I find and reference I'll pass it on.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks.
I always thought that when under operational conditions USN CV Task Forces were on a strict EMCON, only optical signals used.

Fliger747
04-07-2004, 11:41 PM
I have read numerous accounts of aircraft returning from a strike, trying to home in on the YF beacon. Sort of a primitive TACAN. That said, am not sure what te protocols were for it's use, though I expect it was only tuned on when needed.

In the era of tube radio equipment, poor servicibility could be expected in a harsh environment such as a combat aircraft. Additionally I believe these were probably HF units and were greatly affected by "atmospherics" as to range and reception. Today we still use HF for much communication flying the Pacific, despite the usefull inroads being made with sat com etc.

Fliger747
04-08-2004, 08:52 PM
I tried posting this earlier, but it evaporated somewhere.

The YE beacon used 15 degree pie segments, each with a coded letter pair to denote the segment from the ship. For example 0-15 degrees might be AA, 15-30 FF etc. The codes were change daily. The device was often used despite maitaining regular radio silence.

Range varied with altitude, about 40 miles at 4000', 60 miles at 6000' and 80 miles at 8000'.

BSS_Vidar
04-08-2004, 09:54 PM
That is the same system the airlines used before the government regulated airspace and the development of the VOR/DME. They had them set up every 40 miles or so on designated routes. I just leared that last semester in my Air Traffic Control Environment class.
It would be kewel to have to look for the ship by actually navigating without the "magic map". That would be a great option for a full realizm setting.

Now, If the flight models match the real planes, It'll be complete.

P-51 Max spd @ sea level 306 mph
Max spd @ 30K 440 mph
Max climb 2,800 ft/min
Max ceiling 42K...

Me-109 Max spd @ sealevel 261 mph
max spd @30K 405 mph
max rate of climb 2,400 ft/min
Max ceiling 34.5K

It doesn't reflect those numbers in IL-2FB AEP.. a real disappointment to me. I've been left holding my joystick as I watch these German and Russian planes warp off, climb them boom-n-zoom right back at me.

Let's hope PT will be un-tainted and a stand-alone sim.

Vidar

RAAF-IL2_Shark
04-08-2004, 09:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fliger747:
I tried posting this earlier, but it evaporated somewhere.

The YE beacon used 15 degree pie segments, each with a coded letter pair to denote the segment from the ship. For example 0-15 degrees might be AA, 15-30 FF etc. The codes were change daily. The device was often used despite maitaining regular radio silence.

Range varied with altitude, about 40 miles at 4000', 60 miles at 6000' and 80 miles at 8000'.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks M8.
That makes it reasonable to use the "request a bearing to the carrier", like it is now in FB, Provided you are in range http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif, and of course US http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif,and most of all if its working! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif.

Fliger747
04-08-2004, 10:30 PM
The "radio Range" used for airways prior to VOR's, and for primitive "approaches" operated on a different principal. A course was defined and one would hear an "A" on one side and an "N" on the other. When on course a steady tone was heard. I believe the last of these were decomissioned in the early 60's. I have never flown one.

BSS_Vidar
04-09-2004, 01:38 PM
Rgr dat 747...
The airlines established the majority of the old routes on these stations where the steady tone was obtained. The steady tones were on the 045, 135, 225, and 315 degree "radials" - (for lack of a better term) of these stations. So they were kinda reminicent of the STAR approaches to the major hubs in the States today.
So tuning in the carrier's freq, we should be able to listen as well as monitor the instrument to navigate back to the boat. The trick is knowing when your on the steady tone, if you're heading toward the ship or away on that bearing. There was no source of distance measuring equiptment until you lost signal reception due to going out of range. In that case, just turn around, re-aquire the signal and track inbound. You'll know then that you're withing 40 miles or so of the ship.

Vidar