PDA

View Full Version : M1911 good enough for LAPD SWAT but not RvS?



XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 12:06 AM
OK, so the LAPD SWAT recently decided to purchase Kimber Custom 2 pistols. Interesting by itself since almost every other police department favors pistols with higher magazine capacity and a more forgiving caliber.

Now what's really hard to understand is that LAPD SWAT has used 1911's in various variants since the very beginning in the 60's. Even confiscated guns found their way into the hands of a SWAT officer.

Doesn't make much sense to me that the technical advisor who supposedly worked for LAPD SWAT doesn't bring his very own duty weapon into the game.

What's up with that?

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 12:06 AM
OK, so the LAPD SWAT recently decided to purchase Kimber Custom 2 pistols. Interesting by itself since almost every other police department favors pistols with higher magazine capacity and a more forgiving caliber.

Now what's really hard to understand is that LAPD SWAT has used 1911's in various variants since the very beginning in the 60's. Even confiscated guns found their way into the hands of a SWAT officer.

Doesn't make much sense to me that the technical advisor who supposedly worked for LAPD SWAT doesn't bring his very own duty weapon into the game.

What's up with that?

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 02:04 AM
I was thinking about the same thing,all these years the 1911 has been used by so many (what do you call them,departments?) departments and still it isnt in the game.
It must be one of the most used handguns in the world am i right?
Police use it Army Use(d) it and other ops but still its not in the game i dont see why it shouldnt be...
hope UBI releases a SDK soon so people can start making guns for the game

Sorry about my english, it's not my first language..

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 07:20 PM
Actually, over 60% of the world uses glocks now.

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 08:19 PM
Cango_fett wrote:
- Actually, over 60% of the world uses glocks now.
-

I doubt that. Maybe you could say that 60% of police pistols are 9mm's, but that's about it.

Sigarms, Glock, and Beretta have probably equal percentages in the western world.

You also have to bare in mind that some countries have a higher diversity than others, based on the organization of their law enforcement agencies.

In the US, each and every department (city) can make their own decisions ranging from their duty weapon to the color of their cruisers. That's very different from a country like Germany where decisions are made on a per-state or per-county level.

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 08:54 PM
Glock has around 75% of the Law Enforcement market in North America., but a lot of agencies are starting to look elsewhere because Glock has let it's quality slip because of it's monopoly

Raven Shield/Lock On Forums Moderator
http://members.shaw.ca/cinman/modpic.gif

"It takes a big man to admit he is wrong, I'm not a big man." Chevy Chase, Fletch Lives
Raven Shield FAQ (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_ravenshield_ts&id=zzfuu)
LOMAC FAQ (http://www.lo-mac.com/faq.php)

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 09:47 PM
I think that those in MEUSOC use modified 1911's as well.

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 10:45 PM
i would atleast love to see the m1911 in RvS no matter how many percent of the law enforcements use other weapons..
the looks of one is really nice probably the best looking handgun.

i just want it for RvS i dont care how many or who uses it..

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 03:34 AM
75% of the US market is another number that's way too high. If you watch "Cops" on TV every now and then, you'll see that more than 25% use other pistols.

The reason most cops retired both revolvers and 1911 is the immense size with very limited magazine capacity. Also, a DAO pistol requires less training and is considered safer.

Those are reasons that don't matter for SWAT or SpecOps though. Besides having sufficient training, for them the pistol is really just a secondary weapon, with the primary being their M4, M14, MP5 or whatever else. The only reason for them to ever use their pistol is either running out of ammo for their primary, or being in so confined spaces that an SMG or carbine isn't suitable at all.

The average cop is using his pistol as his primary weapon. If he's lucky he'll have some sort of carbine or shotgun in the trunk, but it's not something he'd use for a normal arrest.

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 04:55 AM
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0006/harkavy.php

This is from 2000 and I'm talking about North Amercia. Pretty much every LE agency in Canada carry the glock, except for the RCMP which carry 9mm S&W. It probably has gone up in the last 3 years. Glock is the gun for cops these days

Raven Shield/Lock On Forums Moderator
http://members.shaw.ca/cinman/modpic.gif

"It takes a big man to admit he is wrong, I'm not a big man." Chevy Chase, Fletch Lives
Raven Shield FAQ (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_ravenshield_ts&id=zzfuu)
LOMAC FAQ (http://www.lo-mac.com/faq.php)

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 10:26 PM
yes we all like glocks, its the most reliable. The glock can even fire under water!

I would definetly like to see the glock in any of the upcomeing rainbow six'es or in the expansion.

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 01:40 AM
HK police is switching to glock too. They're testing it with higher ranking officers as well as special dept first.
If the test is good for them they will eventually all switch to glock too. Right now normal patrol cops use still using revolvers and they had arm robbers using AK47
once... what a match =)

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 05:02 AM
M1911s would come in handy for some cases. there was an incident in los angeles in 1997 where 2 robbers with kevlar and AK47s marched into a bank and went all gung-ho. several minutes later when for than 50 cops were on the scene, the 2 gunmen marched out and started firing on them. the cops fired back, but all they had were little 9mm's and shotguns with buckshot (which were not within lethal range of the gunmen). the cops kept hitting the gunmen, but they wouldn't go down. the LAPD at the time was so poorly armed that they had to go to a local gun shop and borrow M16A2s and CAR15s. because of this, LAPD officers can go around on patrol with M16A2s. if the cops had M1911s in that incident, it would have ended immediately instead of taking 44 minutes like it had. although it has small clip size, its still rugged and reliable.



Message Edited on 06/24/0312:03AM by ZeroSniper0

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 05:53 AM
I doubt .45ACP rounds would have even made a difference in that bank robbery due to the fact they had body armor that was most likely capable of stopping .45ACP rounds as well.

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 10:56 AM
ive heard about that incident.
both robbers died one got killed and the other shothimself if i remember right.
they used heavy kevlar vests so i doubt the .45acp would really matter because one of them took so many rounds to him and acted as he never got hit...

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 01:34 AM
the main problem of the robbery was the distance involved. No police were within what? 70-100yards from the robbers. It would be suicide to get closer. At that distance a handgun/shotgun just isn't effective. I'm sure the cops were trying for headshots, but that is really hard on a range with no pressure, not a war zone of the robbery

Raven Shield/Lock On Forums Moderator
http://members.shaw.ca/cinman/modpic.gif

"It takes a big man to admit he is wrong, I'm not a big man." Chevy Chase, Fletch Lives
Raven Shield FAQ (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_ravenshield_ts&id=zzfuu)
LOMAC FAQ (http://www.lo-mac.com/faq.php)

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 05:30 AM
You have to keep in mind the intended user and mission requirements as well as the capability of the round when selecting a firearm.

Rounds such as the .357 Sig, .40 S&W, and of course the .45 ACP all have good records in this regard. Look to the anecdotal evidence coming out of Afghanistan where the 9mm just isn't cutting it, especially against multiple layers of clothing. The general rule is that as stopping power goes up, so does recoil, making it a problem for operators not used to it. LA SWAT, Delta, etc. need more probability of 1-shot stops and train very hard to manage the recoil generated by the .45. One of the reasons for the big move to 9mm was because of the recoil - with the higher magazine capacities thought to offset the reduced stopping power.

Another issue mentioned is SA vs. DA or DAO. Most of this comes from lawsuits since the SA has a lighter trigger and shorter trigger pull. A longer and heavier trigger pull is a detriment to accuracy, but is a benefit if you're having to defend against an accidental discharge suit. Also, DA and DAOs usually have a heavy trigger pull or other passive safety item which allows them to be carried without needing an active external safety like the 1911. Again, this makes it easier for users with less training time (I know, *some* cops train hard, but not to the level of SWAT teams or SOCOM forces) to reliably use since they don't have to worry about proper use of a safety.

Personally, I prefer my Springfield XD .40 over my Glock .357 Sig for feel, but above all I love my 3 1911 .45s (especially my Kibmer Ultra Shadow II).

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 06:28 AM
Another reason for the military switching to 9x19mm rounds I think had to do with pressure from other NATO members. Also supposedly since soldiers were being told not to fully load their 9mm magazines due to weak magazine springs and use about 2/3 capacity it's not a big gain over a 7+1 .45ACP weapon.

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 09:18 AM
True enough, I'd forgotten about that. Just as we pressured for adoption of the .223. It's bad when one of the offsets for moving to a smaller round is taken away from you by faulty equipment.

There's also the theory that the resurgence of the .45 lately (in the civilian market) is due to the 10-round mag cap. People figure that if you can only cary so many, might as well make them BIG! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Of course, military and LE don't have to worry about that... One of the interesting weapons is the ParaOrdnance Tac Four .45 LDA with a 13 round mag. Of course it's pretty big and heavy.

As a previous poster mentioned, the .45 still has issues with body armor - it just moves too slow for its diameter to penetrate. Again, a reason a lot of patrol carbines like the M16/M4 are being issued to cops (there are others, such as distance/precision, etc.).

Bottom line though is that the game should have 1911s of some kind, especially since a lot of "real-life" operators use them.

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 05:27 AM
I would like to have a 1911 in this game just because of the "cool factor" /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

I imagine it would compare pretty well to the Mk23 in game. Not as many rounds in the mag of course, but overall a very steady platform.


<CENTER>
BlitzPig_BW
http://staff.washington.edu/bfiguero/Images/blitzpig.gif
www.blitzpigs.com (http://www.blitzpigs.com)
</Center>

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 01:46 AM
mr.butterpants wrote:
- yes we all like glocks, its the most reliable. The
- glock can even fire under water!
-
- I would definetly like to see the glock in any of
- the upcomeing rainbow six'es or in the expansion.

thats the one quality I don't understand about Glock marketing. Hell yeh that a good feature but why would a cop need that?
Wouldn't it be more profitable to market it in the Military where its durability actually matters?

http://union.ic.ac.uk/scc/icsf/library/tragic/tragic_cards/monty%20python%20video.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 01:49 AM
Thats the great thing about the US,having judge jury and executioners on the street.Cop sees man pull finger at him,cops say "omgz0r he pulled the finger at me" cops draws gun and sticks it in guys face because the cops teh law /i/smilies/16x16_robot-indifferent.gif

http://invis.free.anonymizer.com/http://designermagazine.tripod.com/BoSelectaPIC2.jpg

shamone mutherf**ker EEEEEH HEEEEE

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 05:01 AM
Spinnaker wrote:
- mr.butterpants wrote:
-- yes we all like glocks, its the most reliable. The
-- glock can even fire under water!
--
-- I would definetly like to see the glock in any of
-- the upcomeing rainbow six'es or in the expansion.
-
- thats the one quality I don't understand about
- Glock marketing. Hell yeh that a good feature but
- why would a cop need that?
-
- Wouldn't it be more profitable to market it in
- the Military where its durability actually matters?
-
Well imagine a lot of cops don't take their firearm that serious and maybe clean it once a year if they are lucky. Some guys just don't care. I saw a pistol with a round stuck in the barrel, the only thing it must have happened during the last qualifying and they guy was carrying it on the street for a few weeks before he noticed it. The round was right in the chamber so the guy never unloaded his gun or anything. Amazing.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Raven Shield/Lock On Forums Moderator
"It takes a big man to admit he is wrong, I'm not a big man." Chevy Chase, Fletch Lives
Raven Shield FAQ (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_ravenshield_ts&id=zzfuu)
LOMAC FAQ (http://www.lo-mac.com/faq.php)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 10:14 PM
I totally disagree.

Glocks are used by about 66% of the worlds armed forces/law enforcement (i could be a bit off) Including the swiss army. The main reason the US army doesnt use it is because they want their guns manufactured by the lowest bidder. Glock wants their guns manufactured by glock.

The glock is extremely reliable, you can drive a SUV over it, throw it in mud, freeze it in ice, soak it in salt water, rinse it off, and fire it like new. it has about 33 parts in it. (again i could be a bit off on the number)

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 06:00 AM
Cango_fett wrote:
- I totally disagree.
-
- Glocks are used by about 66% of the worlds armed
- forces/law enforcement (i could be a bit off)
- Including the swiss army. The main reason the US
- army doesnt use it is because they want their guns
- manufactured by the lowest bidder. Glock wants
- their guns manufactured by glock.
-
- The glock is extremely reliable, you can drive a SUV
- over it, throw it in mud, freeze it in ice, soak it
- in salt water, rinse it off, and fire it like new.
- it has about 33 parts in it. (again i could be a
- bit off on the number)
-
-

You can disagree all you want, but the Beretta was chosen from a competition process started back in 1978 (by the Air Force) before the Glock 17 was around. That program was turned into the XM9 - Service Pistol Trials mainly because 2 of the loosers and the Army objected. It's said that Gaston didn't enter the Glock in the later (XM9) trials because he didn't want anyone else making Glocks, but that's kinda silly considering that Beretta makes the M9 in a US plant and Glock opened their US facility in 1985. The contract just stipulated that the production had to be transitioned to the US. The whole "lowest bidder" thing is debatable as well since the Beretta cost more than the Sig, but it was replacement part cost that was used (with less parts by far, I would think the Glock should have come out ahead!).

Don't get me wrong, I think the Glock's a good weapon, but it's not the end-all be-all weapon forever and ever.


That 66% number is falacious if you consider that the US, Chinese, and N. Korean armies don't use the Glock which accounts for more than 34% of men under arms. It does have 65% of the US LE market.

But, fun as this discussion is, it's off topic. The fact remains that regardless of any opinions the 1911 *is* in use by a lot of US SWAT and SF, and so should be in the game. A lot more units use the 1911 than the Desert Eagle for example.

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 06:25 PM
Thanks man, i had a feeling i had my numbers wrong. Why is the m1911 so popular then? Smaller mag, same calibre, less durable then a glock 21. Im assuming LAPD chose it due to the single action

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 07:17 PM
Like someone above posted. The need for a large capacity round is some what negated by the fact that it's a secondary weapon. Also if everything goes alright the primary weapon won't be used either.

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 07:30 PM
Have you ever fired a 1911 Cango? If you did, you would understand why they are so popular!!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Ergonomics, trigger, sight radius, safeties...all top notch. They are natural shooters.

I would also like to add that 1911 models can be just as durable as Glocks. There are some 1911 frames in the US Military armories that have been around for 40+ years. As long as a firearm is maintained well, it will last a long time.

I think a lot of PDs are using Glocks because 1) They are cheap. 2) Glock has an excellent warranty plan [spare parts, servicing, etc..] 3) They are easy to train new shooters on. You just rack the slide and you are ready to rock on roll. There are no safety or decocking levers to fus over. 4) Yes, they are incredibly reliable. Don't clean it for a year and it'll probably still work.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<CENTER>
BlitzPig_BW
http://staff.washington.edu/bfiguero/Images/blitzpig.gif
www.blitzpigs.com (http://www.blitzpigs.com)
</Center>

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 01:01 PM
I disagree with this, The US military uses the berreta 92FS with the exception of CID, And special forces (CID uses either the berreta, or SIG 228, Force Recon uses MEUSOC 45 wich is a custom built 1911, and of course the SEALS us the SOCOM). Their are a few more but I wont go thru them all. So since the US military is the largest in the world this kind a throws your percentage off. So 60% of the world does not use Glock.

Cango_fett wrote:
- Actually, over 60% of the world uses glocks now.
-
-
-
-
-

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 01:10 PM
Id really like to know where you came up with this only loading the Berreta magazine 2/3 full. Cause who ever it is lied to you. Those who have seen my posts in other forums know I am a operator stationed with FAST Co (Fleet Anti Terrorism Security Team) our secondary weapon is the Berreta 92 FS. I HAVE NEVER told any of my guys to only load 2/3 full. Now I do tell them to empty their mags to let the tension off the springs every couple days. But you need to do this with Glock , Sig, Berreta, S&W, or any of the other you can think of. I left my Glock factory Mag loaded for a month went to the range to shoot of my ammo I carry for concealed carry so I could load some new ones up and had a failure to feed because the springs wouldnt push the rounds up.

Tacamo wrote:

- Another reason for the military switching to 9x19mm
- rounds I think had to do with pressure from other
- NATO members. Also supposedly since soldiers were
- being told not to fully load their 9mm magazines due
- to weak magazine springs and use about 2/3 capacity
- it's not a big gain over a 7+1 .45ACP weapon.
-
-

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 07:08 PM
FYI about Glocks, they are *not* the only combat handgun that can fire under water.. Most can..

Hawmarine, as a SIG fan I must mention that the Sig P226 is very popular with the Seals.


Hawmarine, I don't doubt that your Glock mag spring failed on you, but it was simply a mechanical device failing, which is always a possibility. As a rule it simply does *not* hurt quality factory (or good aftermarket springs, like from Wolff) magazine springs one bit to stay loaded.. It wears the springs the most just from being used by firing the gun or just loading and unloading the mags.. There have been countless times where guys find a couple old 1911 mags for instance, that were stored loaded for 30 or 40 years, take 'em out and they function flawlessly.. I keep a few 30rd mags for my AR loaded at all times.. I got one now that's been loaded for a year and when I just shot it to refresh the ammo, it worked perfectly.. And the spring in the mag is original from when the mag was made (around 1990).

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 11:34 PM
Hawmarine wrote:
- Id really like to know where you came up with this
- only loading the Berreta magazine 2/3 full. Cause
- who ever it is lied to you. Those who have seen my
- posts in other forums know I am a operator stationed
- with FAST Co (Fleet Anti Terrorism Security Team)
- our secondary weapon is the Berreta 92 FS. I HAVE
- NEVER told any of my guys to only load 2/3 full. Now
- I do tell them to empty their mags to let the
- tension off the springs every couple days. But you
- need to do this with Glock , Sig, Berreta, S&W, or
- any of the other you can think of. I left my Glock
- factory Mag loaded for a month went to the range to
- shoot of my ammo I carry for concealed carry so I
- could load some new ones up and had a failure to
- feed because the springs wouldnt push the rounds up.
-
I got that info from http://www.sftt.org/article06102003a.html

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 01:06 AM
I dont know who the Army Officer is who gave the order but that would have never happened in the Marines, in my exsperiance, no officer has ever let his Marines go out under armed or without the right ammo, I think he would have questioned this order. But again this is the Army not the Marines, if we have a problem with gear in the USMC we submit a PQDR and get it fixed, or I figure out a way to modify the gear so it doesnt have the problem ( or a solution that helps). Also after looking over the report you posted I see some things that dont make since. I have a M4 at work and their is no plastic insert in the peep sight. And we have a flip sight that goes from 0-200 peep and 200-500 peep. Not to sure why theirs is different with a plastic insert. I shot my M4 on the USMC known distance course and can hit consistantly shots on a human size target at 500 Yds, messing around we are able to hit 9 out of 10 times at 700 Yds. So I dont know why they said they didnt have enough range on them. Also I have never seen a problem where their are dents from the firing pin on any rounds when going from condition 3 to condition 1. Now we use the SF (727) model, the Army uses the standard M4. Ours has collapsable buttstock, removable carry handle, intergrated rail on top and on the handguards, comes with a taclight, reflex sight, ACOG sight, silencer, and tac sling.

M700VS you are right the Glock spring was a rare instance, but it happens always with Beretta mags. When we submitted a PQDR int hem years ago we got a message saying just to unload them every couple days and since them we dont have that prob any more. I know about the SEALS using the 226 just didnt want to go thru all the pistols currently in use in the military.

XyZspineZyX
07-05-2003, 05:28 PM
Theirs alot of crap missing in this game. INCLUDING THE DAM X_BOX GRAPHICS. i think its BS that the counsel gets better graphics. I paid so dam much and i end up with Ghost Recon graphics again.



P4-2.4Gig
1GigPC2100 DDR Ram
SoyoDragon Ulrtra Mobo
8X AGP Slot
GF-4Ti4600pny
20"Monitor
40GigHD
58xCDRW-Drive
DVDRom-Drive
SB-Live 5.1
DX-9.0
XP-PRO
So he tells me, "I ban the Me262 cause its turn rate is over modeled and it dosnt stall"... Then he takes off from his base in a Hurricane.

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 08:11 PM
8 Friggin bullets

XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 01:56 PM
LAPD has recently announced they are switching to glocks.


bout time

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 02:11 AM
I think the 1911 would be a pretty good intro to the game, especialy when you got a DE 50 in there allready...

Main reason I brought this post back up was to comment on a few of the glock posts. Alot of people seem to get their glock/9mm info from games like half-life and counter-strike. The 9mm is NOT a small round, its almost .40 and has some decent recoil to accompany it, NOT like shooting a BB gun. Also the word 'glock' doesnt mean 9mm, glocks go all the way up to .45s, such as the Glock 21 with a 13 round mag. As for the firing underwater thing I dont reccomend you try it. Firing underwater requires pressure to be equal through the entire gun, meaning it has to fill COMPLETLY with water, or COMPLETLY with air. There is a special part you can buy, something or other 'cup' that lets the glock fill completly with water. I'm not sure if its standard but I would definatly figure that out before going 'fishing' with your glock http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Not a major gun geek so if any of this is off or just rumors let me know.



Message Edited on 09/04/0301:13AM by ShadowLance1

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 03:17 AM
You're correct about shooting a Glock underwater. Do it inncorrectly, and you'll wish you hadn't tried. You have to use subsonic, FMJ ammo only, and one fellow at the range told me that only 9mm variations are safe, as the other cartridges all produce too much pressure, even when subsonic. I'm not brave enough to try it with my .40 S&W Glock 23, so I'll take his word on it.

Regarding the recoil of 9x19mm, I find that it recoils noticably less than .40 S&W. Admittedly, recoil is a fairly subjective thing, but most people agree that 9x19mm is one of the most friendly rounds in use (to the user, not the reciever).

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

To win any confrontation, you need three things. You need the proper equipment, you need the proper training, and you need an edge over your opponent. Most of the time, your training is that edge.

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 09:11 PM
I personally think the Desert Eagle was just put in there for all the little n00b fanboyz who want it.

I would like the M1911. That would be my new sidearm.

Yea you get 7+1 rounds. But with the raven shield way of carring clips. you would just get 4 clips like the DE.50.

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 12:14 AM
1911s can use magazines that hold 8 rounds!

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

<CENTER>
BlitzPig_BW
http://staff.washington.edu/bfiguero/Images/blitzpig.gif
www.blitzpigs.com (http://www.blitzpigs.com)
</Center>

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 01:04 AM
Actually, 1911's can use magazines that hold up to 10 rounds, but they protrude from the grip by an inch or so.

I would like to see some STI double stack 1911s modded when the SDK comes out. 12 rounds of .45 ACP, 16 rounds of .40 S&W, and 18 rounds of 9x19mm in non protruding mags. Put a small extension on the mag and get 16 rounds of .45, 19 rounds of .40, and 22 rounds of 9x19mm. All of that in a tack driving, single action pistol. Add a suppressor and it would be all that I would use.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

To win any confrontation, you need three things. You need the proper equipment, you need the proper training, and you need an edge over your opponent. Most of the time, your training is that edge.