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View Full Version : I feel like so much content has been stripped out of these newer AC games



DreamAgainXI
09-25-2016, 09:57 AM
Like where is the assassin part of Syndicate/Unity any more? Blending in with the crowd, eve's dropping, the slower more methodical combat, distracting crowds with coins and using it to your advantage, the list goes on.

I watching AC1 / AC 2 videos lately and it just reminded me how much this game has changed over the years, in to something that has really taken the "assassin" part out of AC.

AI in Syndicate is some of the dumbest creatures I have ever encountered making the whole "stealth" mechanics a watered down joke. I really like what they have done with the game in terms of modernizing it. It isn't like they have made no improvements along the way but from the first game to the latest the "deeper" mechanics have been almost entirely removed for more streamlined gameplay. At this point the series feels like Assassin's Knight: Escape from Arkham. I even got my grapple hook.

So for the next game ( probably wont happen ) please put the ASSASSIN back in AC.

thx

/rant

SixKeys
09-25-2016, 04:23 PM
All the things you mentioned, except eavesdropping, are in Unity. They actually combined stealth with the coin toss, so that when you drop coins, you blend in with the people who flock around you. The combat was slower and more challenging than the 2 games before it (AC4 and Rogue). The customization system was directly tied to your gameplay style, so if you wanted to be more stealthy, you could combine all kinds of different gear that would make blending easier, slow detection rate, reduce running noise, etc. Unity's stealth gameplay was more challenging and required more planning from the player since you couldn't carry bodies (hence you had to kill guards in a spot where you knew the body wouldn't be spotted) and you couldn't just kill endless amounts of guards from the same hiding spot by whistling. You had to plan when and where to perform your kills and how best to avoid raising suspicion. It was closest to AC1 that the series has ever been in that aspect.

So as far as Unity goes, it sounds like we didn't even play the same game.

You do have a point with Syndicate, though. Syndicate dumbed down the combat to the Ezio games' level, brought back abilities that make the stealth much less challenging (like whistling and carrying bodies), massively trimmed down the customization system so that gear no longer affects your detection rate, and introduced the annoying points system that forces you to unlock abilities that take away every last bit of challenge, like making Templars misfire more often (as if enemies weren't already ineffective enough). AI has always been pretty much the same throughout the entire franchise, with the exception of AC3 which was probably the most challenging. So the guards in Syndicate are no dumber than the ones in the early games.

Fatal-Feit
09-25-2016, 04:39 PM
Like where is the assassin part of Syndicate/Unity any more? Blending in with the crowd, eve's dropping, the slower more methodical combat, distracting crowds with coins and using it to your advantage, the list goes on.

Well, have you even played ACS/U? Both games has more social stealth than AC1-ACR combined. All of those mechanics are present (except for the more slow methodical combat system, which was in ACU but not ACS, although AC2-ACR doesn't really have that either) and the games doesn't force them onto the players, and instead offers these mechanics as an option, adding variety to the mission designs--which the old games don't have.


AI in Syndicate is some of the dumbest creatures I have ever encountered making the whole "stealth" mechanics a watered down joke. I really like what they have done with the game in terms of modernizing it. It isn't like they have made no improvements along the way but from the first game to the latest the "deeper" mechanics have been almost entirely removed for more streamlined gameplay. At this point the series feels like Assassin's Knight: Escape from Arkham. I even got my grapple hook.

You should play the games before using words like ''watered down''. Mechanically, sure, it's been streamlined. I prefer the level of control from the puppeteer system, but stealth has never been watered down, we just haven't got any many well-delivered improvements. The AI in the first few games are really dumb as well. Heck, enemies in AC1 instantly forgets about you as soon as you hide and pop out in front of them after a chase. ''Hello, sir, I was chasing someone who looks exactly like you seconds ago that disappeared on this exact rooftop.'' AC have never had brilliant stealth, but what's present in ACU/S is infinitely better than what we had before, as the early games didn't really have anything but ideas and concepts to brag about.

ajl2017
09-25-2016, 05:34 PM
Like where is the assassin part of Syndicate/Unity any more? Blending in with the crowd, eve's dropping, the slower more methodical combat, distracting crowds with coins and using it to your advantage, the list goes on.

I watching AC1 / AC 2 videos lately and it just reminded me how much this game has changed over the years, in to something that has really taken the "assassin" part out of AC.

AI in Syndicate is some of the dumbest creatures I have ever encountered making the whole "stealth" mechanics a watered down joke. I really like what they have done with the game in terms of modernizing it. It isn't like they have made no improvements along the way but from the first game to the latest the "deeper" mechanics have been almost entirely removed for more streamlined gameplay. At this point the series feels like Assassin's Knight: Escape from Arkham. I even got my grapple hook.

So for the next game ( probably wont happen ) please put the ASSASSIN back in AC.

thx

/rant

you really think so? in terms of gameplay ACU and ACS made me feel like the assassin with the open ended gameplay and other mechanics. AC4 also made me feel this way during the infiltration missions. I felt more like an assassin in acS then in the ezio trilogy to be honest.

cawatrooper9
09-26-2016, 08:20 PM
Everyone's entitled to their opinion, of course, and I can't fault someone for not like Unity or Syndicate. However, if you're going to make a claim, I'd hope it isn't just objectively wrong, like stating that coin throwing stealth isn't in the games anymore...

DreamAgainXI
09-27-2016, 07:55 AM
Well, have you even played ACS/U? Both games has more social stealth than AC1-ACR combined. All of those mechanics are present (except for the more slow methodical combat system, which was in ACU but not ACS, although AC2-ACR doesn't really have that either) and the games doesn't force them onto the players, and instead offers these mechanics as an option, adding variety to the mission designs--which the old games don't have.



You should play the games before using words like ''watered down''. Mechanically, sure, it's been streamlined. I prefer the level of control from the puppeteer system, but stealth has never been watered down, we just haven't got any many well-delivered improvements. The AI in the first few games are really dumb as well. Heck, enemies in AC1 instantly forgets about you as soon as you hide and pop out in front of them after a chase. ''Hello, sir, I was chasing someone who looks exactly like you seconds ago that disappeared on this exact rooftop.'' AC have never had brilliant stealth, but what's present in ACU/S is infinitely better than what we had before, as the early games didn't really have anything but ideas and concepts to brag about.
I can literally stand in front of 3 other AI enemies with Evie and walk up directly in FRONT of one guy and stealth kill him while the other 2 just stare at me and do nothing. Then I can easily stealth kill them without ever alerting anyone else. The stealth mechanics are awful. The combat is literally just a couple button presses and then you watch a kill animation there is almost no depth to it.

The fact that I can LITEARLLY go INVISIBLE with Evie just tells me they don't even care anymore.

MikeFNY
09-27-2016, 08:14 AM
I can literally stand in front of 3 other AI enemies with Evie and walk up directly in FRONT of one guy and stealth kill him while the other 2 just stare at me and do nothing. Then I can easily stealth kill them without ever alerting anyone else. The stealth mechanics are awful. The combat is literally just a couple button presses and then you watch a kill animation there is almost no depth to it.

The fact that I can LITEARLLY go INVISIBLE with Evie just tells me they don't even care anymore.

And you forgot the Batman-like rope.

Anyway yes, this is true, which is why I call Syndicate "AC for babies", but Unity is the complete opposite, so I wouldn't raise such criticism to the "newer AC games", it's just one, the last one, and there's a reason why they made it so easy, they wanted to play it safe ahead of the one-year break they decided to take before releasing the new game.

Try completing a Heist mission in Unity without being detected and see if they will just stare at you. And remember, you can't whistle :)