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Gershy
03-12-2004, 05:57 AM
Hi.

Been messing around a bit with the Bk3.7 on the 110. Once you're getting used to it it's not a problem to aim for tanks and stuff anymore BUT...

the BKs on the 110s were mainly used as AA guns not AT guns! So i think we'd need a properly aimable Bk3.7 in the 110 with flakshells insted of AT shells. I even saw flights where 1 plane is equipped with 4 rockets to break the bomber formation and his wingman equipped with a BK3.7 to shoot the bombers once the 1st plane fired the rockets.

Would it be possible to get this Ruestsatz Oleg???

-----------------------------

So long.We wish you well.
You told us how you weren't afraid to die.
Well then, so long.Don't cry.
Or feel too down.
Not all martyrs see divinity.
But at least you tried.

[This message was edited by Gershy on Fri March 12 2004 at 05:07 AM.]

Gershy
03-12-2004, 05:57 AM
Hi.

Been messing around a bit with the Bk3.7 on the 110. Once you're getting used to it it's not a problem to aim for tanks and stuff anymore BUT...

the BKs on the 110s were mainly used as AA guns not AT guns! So i think we'd need a properly aimable Bk3.7 in the 110 with flakshells insted of AT shells. I even saw flights where 1 plane is equipped with 4 rockets to break the bomber formation and his wingman equipped with a BK3.7 to shoot the bombers once the 1st plane fired the rockets.

Would it be possible to get this Ruestsatz Oleg???

-----------------------------

So long.We wish you well.
You told us how you weren't afraid to die.
Well then, so long.Don't cry.
Or feel too down.
Not all martyrs see divinity.
But at least you tried.

[This message was edited by Gershy on Fri March 12 2004 at 05:07 AM.]

Gershy
03-12-2004, 07:01 AM
In Weal's "Zerstoerer Aces" they have a pic of a 110 of 4./ZG76 from Jan 13th 1944 equipped with BK3.7 but I have no scanner http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Isn't there anyone who has some more info? I read Oleg's post that the BK was used for groundattack but I think that only applies for the Stukas not for the Bf110. Maybe there's someone with more material? Oleg himself maybe?

-----------------------------

So long.We wish you well.
You told us how you weren't afraid to die.
Well then, so long.Don't cry.
Or feel too down.
Not all martyrs see divinity.
But at least you tried.

JG26Red
03-12-2004, 10:34 AM
have you tried shootng at a aircraft with it yet? i was thinking about it to see what happens...

Maj_Death
03-12-2004, 12:18 PM
I managed to hit an Yak-1B with it once in campaign mode. I was flying exteremely close though. It blew the Yak apart, but it also blew me apart too. Maybe I was a little too close. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The F7F Tigercat in Aces Over the Pacific is overmodeled.

JG53Frankyboy
03-12-2004, 12:39 PM
well the 37mm BK of the 110 has a very different ammoload than the BK37mm of the Ju87G.

easy to see , just fire at the ground:
Bf110 every shell is a highexplosive- huge explosion
Ju87 every shell is a armourpiercing - no explosion

so the 110 should realy be lethal to airplanes - its just very difficult to aim , true.

we will see what the patch will bring.
hopefully as minimum the delete of the 2 MG151 - Oleg has my scanned pictures , where you can clearly see that there was no space for them anymore http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

and yes , they were used as Bomberinterceptors !
and i also cant belive that they cant aim with their revi - i have just no prove http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Bull_dog_
03-12-2004, 05:42 PM
I don't know this for sure, but I was thinking maybe the gun is the way it is because most initial bomber attacks were made head on 12 O'clock high....

I haven't tried it, but maybe the attack should happen with the 37mm as the 110 pulls out of its head on with the B-17?

WereSnowleopard
03-12-2004, 06:11 PM
Gershy,

You need to look up picture of Me-110 with Bk3.7 and you will see cannon slight downward. That is how it was so Me-110 won't fly into ground when attacking. you need to learn to look below of gunsight to aim. training in quick mission to find best spot to aim via gunsight in kill range. Do it in umlimited ammo to keep training aiming. Good Luck Buddy.

Gershy
03-13-2004, 01:21 AM
thanks snow but I know how to shoot groundtargets with this cannon.


edit: did some more research the interceptor verion with the BK3.7 is called Me 110 G-3/R 3

Jagdaufkl√¬§rer mit einer Bewaffnung aus einer 3,7-cm Flak 18-Kanone (BK 3,7), zwei MK 108 und einem MG 81 Z. Zus√¬§tzlich ein Rb 50/30 und ein Rb 75/30.

So the one we have is a G2R1 for groundtargets and what I saw were G3 in this case hmmmm....



-----------------------------

So long.We wish you well.
You told us how you weren't afraid to die.
Well then, so long.Don't cry.
Or feel too down.
Not all martyrs see divinity.
But at least you tried.

[This message was edited by Gershy on Sat March 13 2004 at 01:13 AM.]

JG53Frankyboy
03-13-2004, 03:18 AM
the G3 was a recon plane, there was no need of a BK37mm.

the BK37mm versions were:
G2/R1 4 MG17
G2/R2 4 MG17 + GM1 (to gain better highalt performance to intercept bombers)
G2/R4 2 MK108
G2/R5 2 MK108 + GM1

Gershy
03-13-2004, 04:15 AM
thanks Franky http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-----------------------------

So long.We wish you well.
You told us how you weren't afraid to die.
Well then, so long.Don't cry.
Or feel too down.
Not all martyrs see divinity.
But at least you tried.

p1ngu666
03-13-2004, 07:35 AM
be cool to have
if its just pushing the barrel up hopefully no fm changes needed over the downwards one http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg

Gershy
03-14-2004, 04:39 AM
bumb for AA Bk3.7

-----------------------------

So long.We wish you well.
You told us how you weren't afraid to die.
Well then, so long.Don't cry.
Or feel too down.
Not all martyrs see divinity.
But at least you tried.

|CoB|_Spectre
03-14-2004, 05:47 AM
I have nothing historical on which to base this, but it is incomprehensible to me that the Germans (or anybody else) would fit a gun on an airplane and not have it boresighted to the gunsight reticle. It would be the aviation equivalent of "shooting from the hip" which is fine in extremely close quarter battle between soldiers, but unsuitable for aviation gunnery against ground or airborne targets. The same guns on the Ju-87G have a relationship with gunsight aimpoint, yet the Bf-110 designers did not think it important?

Willey
03-14-2004, 06:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WereSnowleopard:
You need to look up picture of Me-110 with Bk3.7 and you will see cannon slight downward.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.luftarchiv.info/bordgerate/waffen2.htm

scroll down a bit. I don't see it downward there...

Gershy
03-14-2004, 06:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Willey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WereSnowleopard:
You need to look up picture of Me-110 with Bk3.7 and you will see cannon slight downward.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.luftarchiv.info/bordgerate/waffen2.htm

scroll down a bit. I don't see it downward there...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yup. the Bf110 on the pic is a bomber interceptor. That's what I'm asking for. G2R5 or so would be nice and they surely wouldn't install the gun shooting downwards to attack bombers. I'm still trying to find more sources but the groundattack Bk on the 110s weren't used for a long time as the 110s were withdrawn from the east to Defense of the Reich and used BK mainly for AA.

-----------------------------

So long.We wish you well.
You told us how you weren't afraid to die.
Well then, so long.Don't cry.
Or feel too down.
Not all martyrs see divinity.
But at least you tried.

Gershy
03-15-2004, 05:45 AM
bumpedy bump :P

-----------------------------

So long.We wish you well.
You told us how you weren't afraid to die.
Well then, so long.Don't cry.
Or feel too down.
Not all martyrs see divinity.
But at least you tried.

WereSnowleopard
03-15-2004, 09:10 AM
Same example as Bf-110 with anti-tank cannon aim slight downward. I know it is 30mm MK103. http://www.luftwaffe-experten.com/aircraft/night/me110_03.jpg

I may had see it in book, I think it was Squadron book with drawing showing it. I will try find it later. Maybe Me-110's modeler can post drawing of it.

necrobaron
03-15-2004, 09:58 AM
I've seen pics with the Bk angled downward too,Snow. But for the life of me,I can't find where I saw that.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

"Not all who wander are lost."

butch2k
03-16-2004, 11:06 AM
I reported this problem during beta but i'm not sure Oleg got my mail, there is indeed a problem with the BK 3.7.

Gershy
03-16-2004, 11:29 AM
Well, I got used to the BK3.7 in ACES and I can destroy single tanks with one shot BUT I think we should rather have one pointing straight forward usable with the gunsight for AA. Maybe Oleg could add a G2 version with Bk3.7 for AA attack and GM1?

-----------------------------

So long.We wish you well.
You told us how you weren't afraid to die.
Well then, so long.Don't cry.
Or feel too down.
Not all martyrs see divinity.
But at least you tried.

carguy_
03-16-2004, 12:26 PM
How the hell does one aim with this gun??? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

Gershy
03-16-2004, 01:15 PM
@carguy:

I usually throttle back, dive in at around 20 to 30 % . If you aim you have to use the lower part of your gunsight just underneath the point where the circle ends. use the line going downwards to keep it in the middle.

-----------------------------

So long.We wish you well.
You told us how you weren't afraid to die.
Well then, so long.Don't cry.
Or feel too down.
Not all martyrs see divinity.
But at least you tried.

WWMaxGunz
03-16-2004, 01:26 PM
Can you hit by flying over the bomber or by firing as you pull up after shooting the other guns? I know, it's only for using as now.

Remember the IL2 screenshots that one guy had up of using the IL2 cassettes against the bombers by dropping them from over? Yeah, he cheated with airstart from high alt but the effect was tremendous.


Neal

butch2k
03-16-2004, 01:42 PM
Convergence is currently not correct with the BK 3.7, i hope it'll be corrected soon.

carguy_
03-16-2004, 02:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gershy:
@carguy:

I usually throttle back, dive in at around 20 to 30 % . If you aim you have to use the lower part of your gunsight just underneath the point where the circle ends. use the line going downwards to keep it in the middle.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahh,thanks.Ckecked HE shells on Db3 and it took 5 to bring him down. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

03-16-2004, 02:07 PM
The Bk 3,7 is SUPPOSED to be aimed low.

Don't blame Oleg for the correct gun angle. Instead, bug whoever made the cockpit to MAKE A PROPER GUNSIGHT.

butch2k
03-16-2004, 02:16 PM
No it ISN'T at least not according to the weapon chapter of the Bf 110G-2/R1 manual of which i own a copy. 37mm shells are supposed to converge at 800m.

Gershy
03-16-2004, 03:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cosmokart:
The Bk 3,7 is SUPPOSED to be aimed low.

Don't blame Oleg for the correct gun angle. Instead, bug whoever made the cockpit to MAKE A PROPER GUNSIGHT.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There was a BK aimed down that's true. It was used on the eastern front, that's true as well BUT it was not successful and the 110s were withdrawn from the east. So the main BK3.7 which was used was for bomber destruction and it was NOT a downwards thing.

-----------------------------

So long.We wish you well.
You told us how you weren't afraid to die.
Well then, so long.Don't cry.
Or feel too down.
Not all martyrs see divinity.
But at least you tried.

03-16-2004, 10:19 PM
Well, considering this is an eastern front sim, and got the downwards-pointing Bk 3,7.... it's rather clear that we've got the historically correct eastern front Bk 3,7.

The anti bomber 37mm is not currently part of the sim.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>it was not successful and the 110s were withdrawn from the east.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Irrelevant. Germany was "not succuessful" and lost the war. That doesn't mean we should quit modelling their aircraft.

butch2k
03-16-2004, 11:50 PM
There was just one and only one kind of mounting for the BK 3.7 on the 110. While the mounting's elevation could be modified, it was done only to modify the convergence setting. Moreover the movement range of the "H√¬∂henjustierschraube" was quite limited as seen on page 20 of chapter 8A of the G-2/R1.
As a side note the 110 Gunsight was supposed to be set with a vizierline parallel to flight as documented in various manuals of the 110C, F and G series.

butch2k
03-16-2004, 11:57 PM
I'll check the adjustment screw range with a Bf 110 expert and author who is a friend of mine. If convergence distance is set to maximum, the aircraft could probably have been used as in game BUT the matter is that it could changed.

Oleg_Maddox
03-17-2004, 12:13 AM
It seems that we had wrong blueprints about angle of the cannon.

I received the instruction for this cannon (how to shoot) and it seems really that the blueprints that we have doesn't match this instruction.

So we evaluate the possibility to rework this cannon.

Gershy
03-17-2004, 01:14 AM
Thank you very much Oleg! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-----------------------------

So long.We wish you well.
You told us how you weren't afraid to die.
Well then, so long.Don't cry.
Or feel too down.
Not all martyrs see divinity.
But at least you tried.

03-17-2004, 12:27 PM
Cool. Reading into Oleg's last post, it sounds like the Bk 3,7 could be aimed up and down to suit both ground attack and anti bomber. That's great!

Unfortunately it still doesn't solve the problem of making the gunsight work when the gun barrel is depressed. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Ugly_Kid
03-17-2004, 12:54 PM
G2/R1 was intended to shoot down the four-engined bombers. The guns were converged to 800 m and the MG17 to 500 m. However, the performance suffered so much that in the end these were used only in anti-tank missions on eastern front. Anyway -43 RLM still gave an order that principally all "Tagzerst√¬∂rer 110" should be converted with Flak 18. Additionally they converted some G-3s from reconnaisance missions this way.