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View Full Version : Why is the game so harsh on newbies?



AlDeFlor
09-18-2016, 10:17 PM
I've been playing the Alpha for a few hours over the weekend and the overwhelming feeling I've gotten playing it is "This is impossible."

Lost every single match I've been in, every single fight with another player, etc. Every stage of the game feels like I'm completely helpless. I try to follow the tutorials and videos, but none of it does any good. I feel like every enemy i face is 5 times faster and does 5 times as much damage as me. In duels I feel like I'm getting slaughtered instantly and in team matches I'm miserable because I can't contribute anything and my team has to basically play a handicap. Nothing I've tried to practice has helped me improve at all it feels.

I'd like to enjoy this game because it looks so satisfying when you're good at it, but the skill gap between a brand new player and an expert just seems insurmountably wide, and quite frankly the game's just not any fun at all at the beginner stages. I have a hard time understanding why I should even bother anymore.

Am I the only person who feels this way?

Nyameria
09-19-2016, 01:38 AM
what i did was playing against AI first.
started with duels and then dominion vs ai becasue you can stimll have real player in your tream

then you found a class you think you are good with and you an kill most bots without much problems. you can start against other player.
some of them as bad as you. some of them whipe the floor with you.
but you will learn from then and how they whiped you around.

tehkaao
09-19-2016, 01:42 AM
Yeah I found it hard a few times... but all you have to do is just be patient block their attacks, and pick the right time to strike. Don't button mash and expect to win....

guest-8ayAyRHK
09-19-2016, 02:55 AM
Man, you've just gotta practice. It took me a couple hours whereas someone like yourself may take much longer. I've spent years and years playing fighters like Tekken and Soul Caliber and to be honest, it really helps with a game like this. Knowing when and when not to attack is crucial.

DBLxxShotz
09-19-2016, 03:10 AM
All the people that claim to be great at this game and these are the best tips to help the poor guy? Seriously!!! I really hate the gaming community sometimes. smdh

Demoraliz3
09-19-2016, 04:37 AM
All i can say is , it took me at least 15 hours to actually understand the characters and what tactics to use , mostly learning the combo list that you can open and watching advanced video;s , Still having trouble with 2vs1 but im actually now capable of staying in the fight. as in the beginning panic kicked in early. Took me 20 losses to finally understand how to kick orachi;s *** with beserker and just hours before the beta ended , i won 4 matches in a row against different orachi players ( btw its just sad how many guys play orachi) and now that i finally feel invincible the alpha has ended :@

DETHREAPER_11
10-09-2016, 02:45 AM
It's hard on newbs because tactical depth, kinda like Street Fighter or Smash. A newb makes mistakes that skilled opponents will find easy to capitalize on, and so until the newb corrects these basic errors, he will find it difficult to do good on.

Alanthir
10-09-2016, 09:29 PM
Like in every fighting game: Stay defensive until you mastered your character

Use the bots to learn, they are good enough to get a feeling for the basic fighting, the advanced technics will kick in, when you play and train with your class against other players, good as bad ones.

I only mastered a 60% winning rate (mostly Dominion), but at the end I have been fairly good with my two classes I played (and I did play for about 35 hours in the Alpha). My reflexes are a littlebit rusty cause of age and to less of training in reactiongames in the last years, but still you can win a good number of fights. Just adapt and train with the class which style suits you best.

Honorhound01
10-10-2016, 04:21 AM
All the people that claim to be great at this game and these are the best tips to help the poor guy? Seriously!!! I really hate the gaming community sometimes. smdh

Why so salty? Telling him to play against A.I isn't being rude or unhelpful. If you have a better suggestion then you should share it.

yote224
10-10-2016, 05:06 AM
You hang in there, warrior!
Should we both both be in the Beta I'd be happy to help you out personally if given the chance.

The best I can offer now is help on these forums but I invite you to read the Guides currently available from the Hall of Heroes. Come join the discord as well, it's a friendly bunch of folks and you'll find some very strong players there that are willing to help you out.

If that's not an option for you I can talk you through some helpful tips but I don't have much information to go off of just yet. So let's get to work, my friend.

Is there a specific character that you enjoyed playing more than the others or at least interests you more than the others? Much of the mechanics in For Honor are interchangeable and I think it would be easier to assist you if we can first determine which character you would like to play.

The advice to play against AI in duels is actually pretty solid advice.
I'd take it a step further and tell you that for a few matches you should-
1.check your ego at the door. Many players have only been able to have hands on the game for about 3 days, we all have plenty to learn but also the luxury of time to improve ourselves. Try not to get frustrated as frustration leads to anger and anger leads to the dark side... or something.
2.for your first few matches I will give you an objective . I want you to Time-out your rounds. That's right, don't even think about winning. Focus completely on your defense. This practice will have you learning to read the cues for when you're being attacked and get your timing down until you feel comfortable you've mastered that drill. Since you aren't focusing on killing your opponent you'll have the opportunity to learn how to match your stance to the enemy (if you're feeling gutsy try learning the timing on dodges as well)
If you can learn to block and dodge to the point you can shut an AI bot down in duel you've learned an invaluable skill that will transfer across all characters.
The only downside to this drill is that the bots will not use feints and don't appear to intentionally utilize their environment. So remind yourself that this is a drill.
3. With defence being a huge part of the game you're now adept in, you're feeling confident! Congratulations! You block most attacks, know a few things to be aware of like unblockable attacks, get caught by a guardbreak or two here and there, but you're aware that they can only be initiated from a rather close range. It's time to go on the offensive! With the bots I want you to try and score a perfect round. Your attention should still be on your defence to achieve this goal but I believe in you. This drill will help you understand the timing of openings you create with your blocks, parries, dodges, and guardbreaks.

I'll post more specific info and drills if you like but I want to hear what character you're going to use so I can better assist you. We can do this together, warrior.

DBLxxShotz
10-10-2016, 10:49 PM
Why so salty? Telling him to play against A.I isn't being rude or unhelpful. If you have a better suggestion then you should share it.

Comment wasnt aimed at people who responded. Its the lack of responses. Yet you find a bunch of posts by people who claim to be so great at the game.

DBLxxShotz
10-10-2016, 10:57 PM
You hang in there, warrior!
Should we both both be in the Beta I'd be happy to help you out personally if given the chance.

The best I can offer now is help on these forums but I invite you to read the Guides currently available from the Hall of Heroes. Come join the discord as well, it's a friendly bunch of folks and you'll find some very strong players there that are willing to help you out.

If that's not an option for you I can talk you through some helpful tips but I don't have much information to go off of just yet. So let's get to work, my friend.

Is there a specific character that you enjoyed playing more than the others or at least interests you more than the others? Much of the mechanics in For Honor are interchangeable and I think it would be easier to assist you if we can first determine which character you would like to play.

The advice to play against AI in duels is actually pretty solid advice.
I'd take it a step further and tell you that for a few matches you should-
1.check your ego at the door. Many players have only been able to have hands on the game for about 3 days, we all have plenty to learn but also the luxury of time to improve ourselves. Try not to get frustrated as frustration leads to anger and anger leads to the dark side... or something.
2.for your first few matches I will give you an objective . I want you to Time-out your rounds. That's right, don't even think about winning. Focus completely on your defense. This practice will have you learning to read the cues for when you're being attacked and get your timing down until you feel comfortable you've mastered that drill. Since you aren't focusing on killing your opponent you'll have the opportunity to learn how to match your stance to the enemy (if you're feeling gutsy try learning the timing on dodges as well)
If you can learn to block and dodge to the point you can shut an AI bot down in duel you've learned an invaluable skill that will transfer across all characters.
The only downside to this drill is that the bots will not use feints and don't appear to intentionally utilize their environment. So remind yourself that this is a drill.
3. With defence being a huge part of the game you're now adept in, you're feeling confident! Congratulations! You block most attacks, know a few things to be aware of like unblockable attacks, get caught by a guardbreak or two here and there, but you're aware that they can only be initiated from a rather close range. It's time to go on the offensive! With the bots I want you to try and score a perfect round. Your attention should still be on your defence to achieve this goal but I believe in you. This drill will help you understand the timing of openings you create with your blocks, parries, dodges, and guardbreaks.

I'll post more specific info and drills if you like but I want to hear what character you're going to use so I can better assist you. We can do this together, warrior.

Great post and thats how i learned. I tried to last as long as i possibly could against AI in duel and my defense improved greatly. I think thats the key to this game Defense first Offense second. Another piece of advice id ad is to stick to one character and master it. No all the ins and outs till you can play him without having to think about how to use their moveset.

Zwerqi
10-11-2016, 02:32 PM
did you have the controller upside down?rofl

ShuyinVardiz
10-11-2016, 03:11 PM
I got into the game more or less well. Played pretty crappy for the first two/three days but managed to keep slightly above average that way. After I turned into the moveset after two days and focused into my main char (raider) I started to annihilate everyone with no knowledge of any moveset and dominate everyone with no knowledge of raider moveset, parrys or faints.
Knowledge in For Honor is no real advantage, but having it and practiced it even for one or two hours will change your level miles away from new players.
Usually Dominion is a good way to improve yourself since most players go there and 1vs1 in Dominion show to be offering way worse players then duells and brawls usually do. Go into duells when you got into your class more or less and switch to Brawl if wanted to and you feel like you advanced enough.

/edit:
I personally dont know if AI is something I should recommend. Didnt like it in the beginning and dont like it now. Its difficulty showed to be way too random and technical to learn your class efficiently against them. They cant grow vary of how you play, how you react on certain actions, how you move, how you passivly position them.....they lack too many. I used the open tutorial end to practice my characters moveset und tested my knowledge in duells. Even spammed duel losing streaks against the same opponents just to look for an exploit of their classes (for example is it technically possible to dodge the knights shoulder bash AND get an easy attack into them without them beeing able to block?).

/edit2:
Also I usually dont try to advance by fighting and improving by that, but by forcing the games limitations and see how far I can go in specific situations, how far enemys can go in specific situations, if classes contain movesets that technically deadlock me/my class/any class, etc.
I'm just looking for the games limits and try to live right on their edge.
Which direction combination has the shortest execution time? Which combo allows the most unpredictable faints?
Which gamestyle shows (dis-)advantages against specific classes?
What part of my moveset can be used against my counterclass (as raider my counterclass is probably the oroshi)?
What part of my moveset is mostly known and expected to be used and can I faint out of it or into it? How long did I fight my enemy and did he have a chance to grow vary of my playstyle (Do I need to change my playstyle midfight)?

/edit3:
From beginning to end, always played with mouse and keyboard. Never tried controller.

FredEx919
10-11-2016, 03:39 PM
I've been playing the Alpha for a few hours over the weekend and the overwhelming feeling I've gotten playing it is "This is impossible."

Lost every single match I've been in, every single fight with another player, etc. Every stage of the game feels like I'm completely helpless. I try to follow the tutorials and videos, but none of it does any good. I feel like every enemy i face is 5 times faster and does 5 times as much damage as me. In duels I feel like I'm getting slaughtered instantly and in team matches I'm miserable because I can't contribute anything and my team has to basically play a handicap. Nothing I've tried to practice has helped me improve at all it feels.

I'd like to enjoy this game because it looks so satisfying when you're good at it, but the skill gap between a brand new player and an expert just seems insurmountably wide, and quite frankly the game's just not any fun at all at the beginner stages. I have a hard time understanding why I should even bother anymore.

Am I the only person who feels this way?



It really just takes practice. Everyone will pick up and learn the game at different speeds. That pretty much applies to any game. Main thing to remember is that you've only had a few weekends at most to play the game. Once you're able to play more consistently you'll pick up little techniques that will help you improve. Feel free share more thoughts on what you feel would help new players. There's much more to come in the full game and we're always reading through feedback and suggestions.

VodkaSlam
10-12-2016, 04:24 PM
I've been playing the Alpha for a few hours over the weekend and the overwhelming feeling I've gotten playing it is "This is impossible."

Lost every single match I've been in, every single fight with another player, etc. Every stage of the game feels like I'm completely helpless. I try to follow the tutorials and videos, but none of it does any good. I feel like every enemy i face is 5 times faster and does 5 times as much damage as me. In duels I feel like I'm getting slaughtered instantly and in team matches I'm miserable because I can't contribute anything and my team has to basically play a handicap. Nothing I've tried to practice has helped me improve at all it feels.

I'd like to enjoy this game because it looks so satisfying when you're good at it, but the skill gap between a brand new player and an expert just seems insurmountably wide, and quite frankly the game's just not any fun at all at the beginner stages. I have a hard time understanding why I should even bother anymore.

Am I the only person who feels this way?

The game isnt for everyone, so if you been playing for Hours and Hours an feel like its still difficult. Then the game isnt for you.

I had no problem getting used to the controls because it is Similar to Mount and Blades Combat system. After about a few Practice Sessions...I ruled the battlefield with Kensie. I mastered his moves and he will be the only one i choose ( for now at least).

But again, dont complain because they wont change it. I dont want it to be easy for new players. Practice and stop complaining. That is why they have practice matches and AI so you can practice.

BY the way, the AI is actually harder than Players due to there unpredictable actions. While as players...do the same ****....same cheap moves all the time. An i kill them, every time.

DBLxxShotz
10-13-2016, 02:41 AM
The game isnt for everyone, so if you been playing for Hours and Hours an feel like its still difficult. Then the game isnt for you.

I had no problem getting used to the controls because it is Similar to Mount and Blades Combat system. After about a few Practice Sessions...I ruled the battlefield with Kensie. I mastered his moves and he will be the only one i choose ( for now at least).

But again, dont complain because they wont change it. I dont want it to be easy for new players. Practice and stop complaining. That is why they have practice matches and AI so you can practice.

BY the way, the AI is actually harder than Players due to there unpredictable actions. While as players...do the same ****....same cheap moves all the time. An i kill them, every time.

Congratulations youre good at the game and feel the need to announce your superiority and insult others. Youre either really young or have absolutely nothing else going on in your life.

handheld brando
10-14-2016, 12:16 AM
Don't worry man it takes a lot of practice.

I have had more time than most people and when I first started out I got creamed by bots countless times before I finally got the hang of it. You learn as you go and get better as you learn. Some stuff will come to you naturally but other things will take a lot of practice so don't be ashamed to ask to practice with someone. I practice with one of my mods Willaguy and through our practice he has gotten some of the best defense I have ever seen of any player and he says I have some of the meanest Feints he has ever seen. It takes practice and don't let anyone tell you that its easy because I can guarantee you that when they first started out they got creamed a ton as well.

PowerSenpai
10-17-2016, 11:50 AM
Don't worry man it takes a lot of practice.

I have had more time than most people and when I first started out I got creamed by bots countless times before I finally got the hang of it. You learn as you go and get better as you learn. Some stuff will come to you naturally but other things will take a lot of practice so don't be ashamed to ask to practice with someone. I practice with one of my mods Willaguy and through our practice he has gotten some of the best defense I have ever seen of any player and he says I have some of the meanest Feints he has ever seen. It takes practice and don't let anyone tell you that its easy because I can guarantee you that when they first started out they got creamed a ton as well.

BUT IT WAS EZ-PC BRANDO-BOO?!

JK, what you said is right.

Stainless001
10-17-2016, 09:27 PM
So I just want to say, the first time I played this game I decided to jump in to a player v player match and got completely destroyed. It was frustrating, it was infuriating, it made me want to log off. So man I know where you're coming from.

HOWEVER, as a few people here have suggested, I then went and played a LOT of matches against the AI, what you've gotta understand is that the AI is incredibly tactical and can be pretty decent in melee combat too. They're great to practice against and a really good way to hone your skills and get to know the different heroes. After playing a couple of hours of player v AI the next time I played was at Gamescom.

It was a full player v player match, we all had headsets and we were even playing against some of the Dev's in the opposing team, and we won! And there's a number of reasons why, first it was because I'd taken the time, invested in the player vs AI matches and learnt how the game works and learnt the flow of the combat, but more importantly it's because we were communicating as a team. In For Honor, communication and team work can change your team from an 'ok' team, to an unstoppable team. Strategise with each other, jump on your mic and suggest plays, even ask another player to be your wingman and I promise you you'll find yourself starting to win more matches.

Sam (Stainless001)
For Honor Community Reporter