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YT_Sosohero
09-17-2016, 02:58 PM
so the second alpha is up.
with the first alpha orochi already ruined the game.
but in the forums there were a lot of complaince about that.
so i though that they would surely nerf him.
but just now i played a game of dominion against 4 orochi.
and let it be clear im no rage quieter but that is just to insane.
if characters will not be beter balanced especialy orochi.
this won't be game worth buying in my opinion.

so do you agree or not.
whats your opinion on the character balance in the game?

Pallbearer7
09-17-2016, 06:37 PM
I think the Orochi's counter-attack guaranteed undodgeable unblockable should be either removed or balanced so it's not guaranteed, because you can block with any other class, even Berserker and not be rewarded to that degree. Everything else has a hard counter, but unless you're a conqueror or berserker I don't think you can stop the Orochi from hitting you with that.

Balde3570
09-17-2016, 09:21 PM
Well, in my opinion the characters are not unbalanced.
I fought against the conqueror often now and I really had some hard time sometimes (Played as Raider and Orochi)
You need to be fast, know when to dodge and such things.
Knowing the classes also is a big advantage. All becomes really fun at that point where your noticing your character's feat's and how to conter-attack the different classes.

I was surprised how the Raider does his job in the game. First i though "naaaah... thats not my sort of class slow and not well geard"
Lol... that was BEFORE I tried him out. Now I can say.... "phuu IF I hit... I ****ing hit like a truck, yeah sure im slow, but there are also some nice features where I can hit faster, stay longer. Or I try my luck and do my "throwing" stuff.

All in all, thats only my field of view, the game doesnt have unbalanced characters. Sure a big fat Knight in full plate has his defense, but if you are fast enough and studying some of your opponents movement, than nothing is impossible.

Best example was a 1 on 1 today. I played as Raider against Warden... the first to matches i beat my opponent to the ground like he was nothing... but then he began to act carefuly and.... well.... lets say i didn't expect him to win this thing, but it happened ^^
It was a nice fight and thats the point of the game.

I think you need to find your fav. class and then you can begin to study all other's

To end this I want to apologize for my english, its not my native !

Have a wonderfull night and crush some skulls out there !!!

Randy_Kamikaze
09-17-2016, 10:25 PM
To be honest, 80% of the people complaining about OP Classes simply don't know how to counter one. Really. They rush in guns ablazing and then wonder why they keel over when they fight someone who is build arround countering alone.

That's the kind of people who don't WANT to look into another class. Who want to beat everyone with their class and their style of plaiyng. If they can't defeat someone by playing the way they always play then they scream for OP classes.

You simply can't rush into a orochi and await to defeat him like that. You need to guardbreak, stay on your guard, and react to the orochi. Orochis are, for example, extremely prone to running out of stamina. You only have to stay on your toes untill they exhaust themselves at which point they can't use their blade rush anymore, attack extremely slow, are a easy target.

Or did you know that the Warden has a special attack for heavy damage that only works if your enemy attacks from above? Well the Orochis "guaranteed 2 hit" only works if they attack from above. So there you go. Do that attack and then do your guaranteed two hit from the left or right.


Really it's all a question of knowing the classes and knowing what works against which class and what doesn't. Most people simply don't want to learn that or adapt their playstyle. They want the game to adapt to their playstyle. And sorry, that just won't happen in a multiplayer game. In the last Test i played all classes, and i was able to defeat every class with every class. The Orochi is no easy foe. But far from unbeatable if you adapt to them instead of staying by your same pattern.

DeathofCaine
09-17-2016, 11:14 PM
I think positioning is a very important part of the game that a lot of people don't pay attention to. I'm not talking about where you stand or move to when you are in combat, I'm talking about where you decide to initiate combat.

An Orochi needs space to move. Corner him and you weaken him. He also can't take too many hits. A Raider can pretty much kill him in two swings. Some classes even have unblockable hits that can stack up and get him on the run. The key to countering a good Orochi is patience and keen observation.

Play defense and let him reveal his tactics early. Then make him pay for it.

Nihility007
09-18-2016, 01:34 AM
I play orochi mainly. Currently renown 1 lvl 2..so I've played him a bit. And I think Orochi does need some kind of nerf and the reason is because even though it says he's "hard" he's not, He's pretty easy compared to all the other classes and it's because of his reactive abilities and his dodging attacks. When I can simultaneously use my defense as well as my offense, on a constant basis, it becomes really easy. A fix would be to increase the stamina cost of doing a dodge attack or a deflect more than it is now.

Also another big thing I think the orochi is too good at is being able to get away. Not only am I able to constantly attack from a defensive position(dodge attacks), if I do happen to not like my situation, then I can easily outrun pretty much anyone.

And no one is getting away from me. Absolutely no one. With my superior speed, running right click with quick 2x left click follow up, then repeat....no one is getting away. Which I"m actually ok with this because that should be within the realm of the assassin type.

This class feels like the only class I am not having an issue with stamina. I hardly run out of stamina, which means I can just keep doing fairly hard hitting attacks/dodges over and over.

So it's not any one thing that makes the orochi too powerful. It's the combination of them all that make them too good at too much.

Maybe when the other classes come out, especially the hybrids, then balance will be apparent, but as of right now, I don' really fear anyone. I don't have any empirical evidence or anything, but I feel orochi is by far the most played class of the alpha right now, and I see why. It's easy(even though it claims to be hard).

Some suggestions:

Make it to where they do minimal damage when attacking normally from the front, but increased damage when able to flank/outmaneuver.
Give them either a small internal cooldown, or an increased stamina cost when doing dodge attacks.
Deflecting should take a small amount of stamina(i think it already does) but deflect attacks should take a bit more stamina than a normal attack would. That way chaining deflect attacks makes you really tired, and you'll have to choose between just deflecting to conserve stamina, or a deflect attack to go for a kill.

Just my thoughts...

Xecutioner84
09-18-2016, 01:58 AM
yes learn how to counter a Viking that gets an instant stun when you're busy dueling another guy hahaha defend this game all you want but if this doesn't get fixed the reviews are going to ruin this game.

DeathofCaine
09-18-2016, 02:40 AM
yes learn how to counter a Viking that gets an instant stun when you're busy dueling another guy hahaha defend this game all you want but if this doesn't get fixed the reviews are going to ruin this game.
Sorry Xecutioner84, it's not really intended for you to be able to beat multiple opponents at the same time. While it definitely is possible, depending on your class and the skill level of your opponents, you're asking for trouble fighting alone - especially with a heavy hitter as a secondary opponent.

Retreat, regroup.

Smurfsauce
09-18-2016, 02:44 AM
Orochi seems very strong regardless of how people say they're fine/have weaknesses. That isn't the problem. Yes, there are great ways to deal with them for some characters, but even then there's a level of mindless annoyance that goes on when facing several of them. For them to be labeled Hard actually gets on my nerves, too. The amount of intelligence required for the average player to be decent is very small, but I feel the skill required to be ridiculous with them is difficult due to their specifics (and that's a good thing).

That said, there's nothing stopping their damage from being comparable to the hardest hitting characters despite having so much handed to them regardless of their skill. I think some of that needs to be tuned down considering what they're capable of as a whole. Being difficult to play shouldn't give a character in any game a free ticket to be ridiculously powerful by default. Think of it like how in certain fighting games there's a ban on playing top tier characters; not because they're strong, but moreso because the amount of skill it'd take for them to be capable of dominating is very low. As long as you understand the fundamentals of the game and can use certain moves you have a noticeable advantage even if you're bad at the game in comparison to your opponent.

Just nerf them or at least change certain traits within their moveset.

DeathofCaine
09-18-2016, 02:55 AM
I've yet to cross an Orochi that felt overly deadly. Perhaps I've just had the good luck to not have faced anyone with actual skill at that class?

I particularly hate Conqueror's to be honest. Occasionally a warden will pull some nice combo damage on me. Every Orochi I've come across has either died in two hits or run away from me.

Smurfsauce
09-18-2016, 03:29 AM
I've yet to cross an Orochi that felt overly deadly. Perhaps I've just had the good luck to not have faced anyone with actual skill at that class?

I particularly hate Conqueror's to be honest. Occasionally a warden will pull some nice combo damage on me. Every Orochi I've come across has either died in two hits or run away from me.

I really hate Conquerors during Dominion, but their role is something I actually enjoy even if I find myself being beaten on by them. The thing with them is, they have very clear weaknesses even with their specifics. They're what I expected when I read Medium. I think you've been lucky with Orochi you've faced. It's not even a matter of them being unbeatable. It's the fact that all the little things about them alongside their specifics make them better, if not good in any situation. Disregarding Feats, it's like they're comparable to Warden with more things given to you and your main drawback being what seems like a lower health pool. That drawback doesn't even feel like a bad thing unless two people catch you in a bad position. And that's what makes them feel very strong, to me at least.

I've read people saying they tend to run out of stamina quickly, but that's true of any class. Rather, from my experience that wasn't really something totally different from the other classes and therefore not a weakness in my eye. Although, I do accept that maybe there's something to that statement that I have yet to experience playing as and against Orochi.

Leathalwarrio
09-18-2016, 06:15 AM
If u don't think the game is unbalanced u haven't played the build i did... Like are you seriously that oblivious to balance problems right in front of you're face!??!?!?!?!??!

AvarusTyrannus
09-18-2016, 08:16 AM
If u don't think the game is unbalanced u haven't played the build i did... Like are you seriously that oblivious to balance problems right in front of you're face!??!?!?!?!??!

Everyone is playing the same build, hermano. The Orochi has been a hot issue for a lot of people. Some people are really effective with the class, and exploit it's strengths to achieve a low risk high reward play style, but a lot of people just hack away and get slaughtered Thing is I would say the same for a lot of the classes, and to a degree I think that's what we want. A skilled player should be able to make any class a real threat.

Some balancing patches might be required, Orochi might be high on that list, but I don't think it's as severe as people are making it out to be.

Honorhound01
09-18-2016, 08:29 AM
I think people need to keep in mind this is alpha & not the released game. There's still more alpha to go through & after that comes beta testing, so stop saying it's the end of the world.

AzureCerberus
09-18-2016, 09:26 AM
No class is unbalanced, learn to counter and read the moves of your opponent. If you fail to dodge or block an attack THAT'S your own fault.