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View Full Version : Would you want the Grunts to do more damage?



topeira1980
08-29-2016, 03:51 PM
The AI grunts on the map do damage of about 20% (or even 10%) of one single health chunk. that's very little.
Since you can see them attacking, you can block against them and avoid damage if you are just a little smart than i think they should do a lot more damage. maybe about 2 or 3 times more than what they do now.
currently, in the gameplay we've seen, only if you get attacked by about 6 of them at the same time than you lose maybe one full chunk. otherwise they are ignore-able. there is no need to utilize ANY skill against them.
In so many cases players rush into the midst of the enemy grunts to chase an enemy. wouldnt it be much cooler if you can find some form of safety if you go and hide in between your own troops so enemies wouldnt follow you there?
Wouldnt it be cool if you had to use your brain just a tiny little bit when fighting them? after all they are killed in one hit. You can kill more than 5 of them in one heavy attack.

I think that if each grunt's hit would do about 33% or more of a single health chunk than getting one chunk lost is really feasible. feasible enough that you dont just storm into the chaos but rather attack from outside the scrum, or at least not rush into the middle of them all.
As they are right now they are ignoreable and if a feature is something you ignore than there is very little value to it. why waste the existing AIs presence on the map if you just ignore them and dont give them thought?

what do you guys think?

handheld brando
08-29-2016, 03:57 PM
Idk if I would like that.

They can surround you and if they do they start taking your health down really quickly. On top of that they can surround you while fighting another player. If they did any more damage than they do now they would probably start taking out players left and right.

topeira1980
08-29-2016, 04:11 PM
Idk if I would like that.

They can surround you and if they do they start taking your health down really quickly. On top of that they can surround you while fighting another player. If they did any more damage than they do now they would probably start taking out players left and right.

dont forget that once you lock into another player you automatically defend against eh grunt.
and letting them do damage to the player is exactly the point. it looks really easy to not die by them if you just stay out of the chaos in B. these grunts have very very basic AI. tits not like they will chase you around.

iHunny
08-29-2016, 05:04 PM
I prefer how they work now. If they were to be stronger they would be way to useful in my opinion. They do reduce dodge options and chipps at your health when your fighting another hero or the minions.

Khronus899
08-29-2016, 05:05 PM
I have to agree with Handheld brando on this one - while i do want a bit more challenge from the grunts, i think giving them a major damage boost would disrupt from
fighting players, perhaps they could have a mode where you play 4 V Grunts where you need to hold 1 point for a certain ammount of time or something like that

TheBearJew411
08-29-2016, 07:00 PM
I like how it is now. The grunts are fine with how they work now. They direct the flow of battle and give you some xp to farm quickly before taking on another player. Basically they are Stormtroopers and we are all Jedi levels of awesome. they are not meant to be able to challenge us they are meant to live in absolute fear of us. Now one idea they could do is have allied units say how bad *** we are to them and how impressed they are to see us on the battlefield and have enemy units talk about how afraid they are and try and get the other minions to gang up on you say maybe they survive. All in all to me the minions are fine as is.

Armagodura
08-29-2016, 07:30 PM
Now one idea they could do is have allied units say how bad *** we are to them and how impressed they are to see us on the battlefield and have enemy units talk about how afraid they are and try and get the other minions to gang up on you say maybe they survive.

This, I approve of.
If there's one thing I liked from the Mad Max videogame was that enemies threw remarks on what you were doing while fighting them (pointing out that you're low on health, running away or that you went into fury mode, besides the usual taunts). It really added it's bit of immersion to see that they actually noticed me doing things.
Now, in For Honor we are supposed to be an elite fighter standing out of a crowd (rather than a ragedy man). Having said crowd regarding our outstanding presence would feel good indeed.

topeira1980
08-29-2016, 07:47 PM
I have to agree with Handheld brando on this one - while i do want a bit more challenge from the grunts, i think giving them a major damage boost would disrupt from fighting players...

YES! that's the point! To make them matter.
and I think you are forgetting that the grunts only occupy about 10% of the map (and the direct path from the spawn to B). it's not like if they did meaningful damage they would hinder your progress or overall performance in the match. Such a change will only influence the small section in B. It will just mean that you should alter how you fight i the middle of all the grunts.
You could hide among them, use them as protection, consider if you are to give chase after a fleeing enemy who ran through them or go around, make them useful in this FEAT that calls them to fight for you (i think i saw that once) and basically not ignore them like it seems you can do now.

There is little to no difference in fighting among 20 grunts than fighting in any other location on the map. you swing normally. you move normally. you can lock on the enemy normally. it's just that they damage ever so slightly that its usually unnoticeable that no player that i've seen in more than 15 gameplay vids even take notice of them or mind their presence. players just ignore them and run straight inside with no punishment.
However if they WERE meaningful than that would add strategy to fighting near them.
Isn't more strategy better than thinking of them as water?
even if they were some sort of risk, you could still kill 10 of them in two heavy swings. it's not like you will suddenly feel weak next to them.

handheld brando
08-29-2016, 09:22 PM
YES! that's the point! To make them matter.
and I think you are forgetting that the grunts only occupy about 10% of the map (and the direct path from the spawn to B). it's not like if they did meaningful damage they would hinder your progress .


They really would, though.

When you go to the middle you aren't just fighting one minion you are fighting 5-10 at a time and they swarm you really quickly. If they did more damage then they would be doing the nearly the same amount of damage as players while being able to surround you. It would not be all that fun to deal with that while trying to fight a another player.

MisterWillow
08-29-2016, 09:26 PM
YES! that's the point! To make them matter.

Without going into specifics, they do matter. If you wade in and expect to come out unscathed, you're mistaken.

T_Sesh
08-29-2016, 10:11 PM
I would personally like to see them matter more as well. Currently they have basically no bearing on the match beyond filling out an area with fodder enemies to farm. It seems they also largely ignore you when you stand in the middle of a swarm of them, like a Dynasty Warriors game. It would be nice if there was more tactical consideration to take in killing them beyond just for the purposes of capturing B. It would be great for instance to be in a losing duel in B, then having a wave of friendly reinforcements crash in and save your skin while you fall back to safety. This would also give more utility to the arrow storm and catapult abilities that we've seen in previous videos other than just as something to target other players with.

Yggdrasil_67
08-30-2016, 01:35 AM
At first I thought they'd need to attack the players a bit more often but after seeing a bunch of videos it seems they are aggressive enough. When surrounded by five or six of them your health will visibly decrease a bit, but not by much. Even if staying in the front for too long means you'll lose a little bit of health that could make a difference against fresh enemy players I think they should have a very very very slight damage buff, just so that it's worth your while to block their attacks when they're in groups instead of taking them like it's nothing.

iHunny
09-21-2016, 04:30 PM
There interuption of your attacks is anoying enough. It gives the hero a advantage so I am fine how it was at alpha.

i88
09-21-2016, 06:31 PM
No change necessary, there are abilities that affect them.

Tuckle5113
09-21-2016, 09:43 PM
I personally would like to see those minions in actions as well, but not like they should matter. For now, they do enough damage.
But my idea is that rather than make the minions do more damage, to introduce another(or other two) types of minions that look slightly different than the most of them and those to do a little more damage, but also to be more rare than the normal minion you find on the battlefield. Although fighting at B might not be that simple as it was until now, you will be able to distinguish between the minions that do almost no harm and those that can damage your health if you get surrounded by them.

Cyclope80
09-21-2016, 10:51 PM
the grunt damag are good i think. The player must focus the objectiv and hero ennemy, he doesn't waste time with a better grunt.

Moreover, combine hero damag + grunt damag are perfect like this.

NephthysIV
09-21-2016, 11:31 PM
They do matter. I killed sometimes by them when I was low hp.
They are really dangerous if you fight a player in a wave of them, especially for assasines.

Dez_troi_aR
09-22-2016, 11:28 AM
The pros seem to be fine with the way it is now, so who am i to disagree.
From a streamviewers perspective i'd like to have a little damage added which makes blocking against them viable (just holding down the button, no directional defense). It is a little strange to see the chars roaming freely in the enemiy food soldiers lines without a little penalty. I think that should be possible but come with a little damage, so it is a tactical choice.

But if its better the way it is gameplay wise then i don't really care..

djb204
09-22-2016, 04:22 PM
Doing 10% to 20% damage is small, but don't forget that some classes have the ability to make the "grunts" fight harder and more aggressively. If a 4 man team all used this ability one after the other, you would see a completely different set of minions (or grunts). So yea, a more effective group of AI grunts are already in the game, it's just up to the players to activate it.

feleepe
09-23-2016, 07:20 PM
I think friendly fire should do more damage