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View Full Version : Eve Will Lead Us - Hybrid Theory and Analysis (Spoilers)



Sorrosyss
08-13-2016, 06:19 PM
http://i.imgur.com/AwpNR6C.png


You cannot kill a creed. Even if you kill all of its adherents, destroy all of its writings – these are a reprieve at best. Some one, some day, will rediscover it. Reinvent it. I believe that even we, the Assassins, have simply re-discovered an Order that predates the Old Man himself...

- The Codex of Alta´r Ibn-La'Ahad

Adam and Eve were the first Assassins. This much we know.

Over 75,000 years ago, back in the time of the First Civilization - the Isu, these two Human-Isu hybrids took the fight to their creators with Eve leading humanity in a bitter war for freedom.

But was that the end of her story? Along with several other recurring characters, Eve has been namedropped and mentioned for several years now with little in substantial detail. Let us take a look at what we know so far, with a timeline.


2009

Within Assassin's Creed 2, the hybrids are depicted for the first time in the franchise. Revealed in the Truth video by Subject 16, Adam and Eve are seen running and parkouring within Eden from an unseen threat whilst in possession of a stolen Apple of Eden. We also see other enslaved humans, which in the AC universe means that Adam and Eve are not in fact the progenitors of the human race.


http://i.imgur.com/89Bb5eP.png


2010

Upon encountering Subject 16 within Assassin's Creed Brotherhood, he comes out with some interesting remarks.


Subject 16: No time. It is far later than you know. Too late to save them.
Desmond: Who?
Subject 16: She is not who you think she is. Everything you hope to become, everything you hold dear, it’s already gone.
Desmond: Explain. Please.
Subject 16: Eden. She... in Eden. Find Eve. The key. Her DNA...
Desmond: Tell me!
Subject 16: I cannot... The sun... Your son... Too weak... Must replenish energy...
Desmond: Don't go!
Subject 16: I am with you 'til the end. Find me, in the darkness.

People have interpreted these words in many ways. But if you look at the events in the past few games, there is some telling things here. The Phoenix Project's stated aim of mapping the Isu genome is to be able to travel back to the time of the First Civilization. If we are to assume that we will eventually travel to such a time within a game, then we already know where an Assassin needs to look. Evidently someone's DNA, a female (maybe Eve's) is a faster way of accessing Eden itself. Perhaps this is a backdoor that the Brotherhood can access outside of the Abstergo project.

The son reference. This was always put down to 16 being confused, but now we know Desmond has a son. Clearly he has some part to play still.

As for the darkness - well we know they both ended up in The Grey together, so perhaps thats a reference.


It is done. The way lies all before you. Only she remains to be found. Awaken the sixth. Go. ALONE!

- Juno

With Lucy dead on the floor, just who exactly is Juno referring to here? Clearly someone who she considers a threat. To this day we do not yet know who.


2011

The data files of Revelations reveal that both Desmond and Clay are direct descendants of the hybrid Adam. But evidently not Eve. Why was this the case? We know that they gave birth to Cain and Abel. Is this an acknowledgment of a Lilith in the AC universe? Did the two hybrids split up? Many unknowns here.

In the game ending we discover that the human-isu war was effectively ended by the Toba Catastrophe. There was a theory awhile back that Eve was in fact the woman seen carrying the child in the cinematic.


http://i.imgur.com/BJwpOn9.png
[Credit to andyskullcandy (http://andyskullcandy.deviantart.com/art/Assassin-s-Creed-II-Revelations-Eve-Comparison-289530460)]


2012

The events of Assassin's Creed 3 show that Juno was able to utilise the research of Consus, in order to extend the legacy and life of Aita through the human genome as what we now term a Sage. Was Aita the only one subjected to this process though?

The true ending of Liberation directly mentions Eve again. Aveline discovers a message contained upon a Prophecy Disk, evidently that occurred prior to the catastrophe.


Eve will lead us through the war of generations.
There will be great sacrifice, great sorrow, to end the enslavement of the human race.
Now is the time to claim our freedom. Are you with us?
I am.
Eve will lead us.
Eve will lead us.

- Three unknown individuals


http://i.imgur.com/Hm7JyUI.png


2013

Sages take on a literal new narrative level within Black Flag. Here we are also introduced to the concept of Blood Vials, which the Isu were using to store their DNA. During the game Edward Kenway visits the Observatory twice, but on his second visit he remarks about how a load of Blood Vials have evidently been stolen. We are to assume this was done by either Aita/Bart or the Templars. Was Eve's blood amongst them?


2014

The Dead Kings DLC had another namedrop, but this was somewhat subtle. Once you assassinate Capitaine Rose, you are treated to a memory where he was evidently tasked to retrieve the underground artifact for another party.


Guard: Steal the artifact, and your reward shall be far greater than anything Commandant Bonaparte has offered.
Rose: Where do I deliver it?
Guard: To the lady Eve.

I find it somewhat difficult to believe that some random noblewoman would know that an artifact is even down in the crypts, let alone have the knowledge of what it contained. It is also interesting to note that for the subtitles the word lady is not even capitalised, suggesting that this Eve did not in fact even have such a title. Very interesting.

Meanwhile in the Modern Day, the Initiates database entries reveal that Galina Voronina's mother believed she was communicating with Eve herself within an Animus. We later discover that Juno had entered her body, leading Galina to have to kill her deranged mother.


2015

In an interview prior to E3, Jeffrey Yohalem - writer of Brotherhood, Dead Kings, and Syndicate - dodges questions in relation to Eve. The implication I take from it is that there are some kind of plans incoming. (19:55 timestamp for reference (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAOiB46-8nU&feature=youtu.be&t=1195))



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAOiB46-8nU&feature=youtu.be&t=1195

Meanwhile, the events of both the Brahmin Comic and the Chronicles Trilogy lead us two new revelations. A Piece of Eden known as the Koh-i-noor evidently has the power to control all other pieces, but the diamond can only be wielded by a female. The precursor boxes introduce us to a new concept whereby the genetic memories of individuals who have touched the box can be imprinted onto others. Did Eve once touch such a box?


2016

In an interview in May 2016, Eve is namedropped again.


I just thought if you’re doing a fantasy film, the first thing about it was to have something that was seeded in some sort of scientific world. What I mean is basically the idea of DNA memory. I just thought that it was a really interesting catch, and I thought that it was a really plausible theory. And I think if you can bring something like that to a fantastical world, it hooks the audience in even more, and makes the journey even more immersive. So I thought that was the first thing, and then I just loved the idea of Templars versus Assassins, this idea of an elite group of people struggling with the idea of free will and these sort of rebels to that elite force trying to struggle for humanity, essentially. And the idea that the original Assassins were Adam and Eve and they picked the apple in the Garden was really interesting.

- Michael Fassbender
(source (http://collider.com/assassins-creed-michael-fassbender-interview/))

By implication, this either means that we may see Eve at some point referenced in the movie, or that there have been discussions for future sequels. The character is clearly part of the narrative plans.


2017

In a Reddit AMA (https://www.reddit.com/r/assassinscreed/comments/60pj33/i_am_aymar_azaizia_head_of_content_for_assassins/) conducted with Aymar Azaizia in March 2017, Eve's name came about again. Again no answers could be given, other than she is something that has been seeded - with the implication that something is therefore coming.

http://i.imgur.com/nZJwl4N.png

http://i.imgur.com/qnqtMV7.png


================================================== ==================================================



So, what happened to Eve?

I feel it is time for some theories. Let us take into account the above, and try to run down some of them.



(1) Eve is Dead

The most obvious and likely scenario. It was after all, over 75,000 years ago that she first appeared. She may well have not survived the Toba Catastrophe, and we simply do not know how her hybrid body aged or reacted to such events.

While she lived, it may be possible that the Assassin movement lead to a solidarity in displaying red sashs. After all, Eve herself wore a red band on her arm. Ignoring the obvious Prince of Persia origins of the franchise, this would explain why nearly every Assassin proudly wears their red sash.


http://i.imgur.com/68BpUiw.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/mUagFmJ.png


(2) Eve is Immortal

This is a hard sell, but there is some evidence. Beyond the Dead Kings namedrop, she apparently tried to contact Galina's mother in an Animus. Even if this was Juno pretending to be Eve, surely she would have only done this if somehow Eve was still around to be impersonated? Was Eve "she who remains to be found"? As she lead the war against the Isu, it would make sense for her to be viewed as a threat by Juno. Presumably then, her hybrid body somehow attained immortality.


(3) Eve is in The Grey

We could combine the two scenarios above to another, what if she is 'alive' within The Grey? It would still explain how she was able to contact Galina's mother.


(4) Eve's Blood Vial is the Key

If the Assassins somehow tracked down a Blood Vial for Eve, then Eden would be in theory unlocked for them in an Animus. Eve remains very much dead, but the Phoenix Project could hold the key to bringing her back.


(5) Eve survived partially like a Sage

If we assume Minerva was privy to the same data and information as Juno via Consus, it is not impossible that the Nexus and The Eye might have showed that Desmond would ultimately release Juno from the Temple. It would make sense for Minerva to have a back up plan with all of her calculations, and if Eve had been convinced to follow the same procedure as Aita, she may well be reincarnating amongst humanity and throughout time. Perhaps Galina's mother literally did see Eve within her own blood?


(6) Eve has a descendant bloodline

We know of Cain and Abel, but we should assume that as with Adam she somehow has a Modern Day descendant. Could this be Galina, Charlotte... we just don't know. But if such an individual exists, then the path to Eden becomes clear again. Such a descendant would likely be the one to wield the Koh-i-noor as well. Perhaps 'she' who remains to be found.


(7) Eve is Bishop

People have mocked this theory, but in my mind a lot of things make sense here. It literally could be any of the above scenarios playing out here, be it a Sage or immortal, but Bishop's presence draws some interesting parallels. First of all, we know Bishop is not her real name (obviously).


http://i.imgur.com/vOS4Wn1.png

Then we find that Shaun, a master with information, can find nothing on Bishop at all. Per the Syndicate database;


So that's how I met Bishop. I know WHAT she does, she is kind of a central controller and dispatcher for Assassins around the world. She makes sure that when a Templar pops their head up, an Assassin is waiting to cut it off. Or if there's a new set of genetic memories to synchronize, she finds us a helpful soul like you to help synchronize them.

Which is all well and good. But I still don't know WHO she is and quite frankly I'm loathe to admit it drives me bat**** crazy. I joined the Assassins by uncovering the greatest conspiracy theory known to man, and yet I can't find anything on this woman.

Everyone's got a theory. Gavin thinks she's former CIA. My friend Harlan thinks she's a defector from Erudito, another hacker collective that no one's heard from in a while. Rebecca tells me that she actually knows the truth, but promised not to tell me.

- Shaun Hastings, 2015

If you did not want to be found, someone who had been hiding for generations would be very good at it. Admittedly the eye colour does not match (contact lenses!), and the face is not an exact match - but then several of the character models in Syndicate looked a little off. If it is Eve though, she is continuing the fight from the original Human-Isu war, and in a poetic cycle will lead the Assassins against the reborn Juno. I find it fascinating that this relatively unknown individual is suddenly running the shots for the Assassins. What are the Brotherhood leaders not saying that would suddenly allow this?


http://i.imgur.com/WX21iNa.png
Eve will lead us through the war of generations.

Is it not interesting that in the events of Dead Kings, she just happened to drop us into a time and place that an actual Eve was operating? Coincidence?


Bishop: Something about this memory... it's locked us out of the Helix data. That fixed it. Now, I wonder where this detour leads? Another DNA sequence perhaps. Only one way to find out.

If you factor in that Eve was somehow after the Apple variant we found down there, she now knows that it was dispatched off to Cairo too. That's right, Egypt. The supposed next setting for the 2017 title. If the game begins with Bishop sending us to Egypt in search of the Apple, your conspiracy alarm bells should start ringing.

================================================== ==================================================




That concludes today's theories on Eve, and her impact on the Assassin's Creed universe. But what do you think her impact ultimately is? Has her legacy been and gone? Could she return? Is she still out there?

Feel free to vote in the poll. Thanks for reading. Kudos to the AC Wiki (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Assassin%27s_Creed_Wiki)as always.




The truth is coming.

E.

joshoolhorst
08-13-2016, 06:31 PM
Interesting read but please don't let Bishop be Eve just no don't ask.
To be fair this should've been answered in Revelations anyway

Megas_Doux
08-13-2016, 07:48 PM
This plotline was a favorite of mine back in 2012, meh :(

RinoTheBouncer
08-13-2016, 07:49 PM
This is actually extremely interesting. The fact that Eve could be someone we already know, reincarnating over time, whether as a male or a female, would be shocking indeed. A great article and theory, as usual. Thank you for the nice read. I truly hope we do get to see significant progress of Eve's story in the next game, and not just small bits and pieces that we only create more theories from than actually get answers.

I think Eve is indeed a Sage, I've written about that in an article before. It's the most logical explanation for me since she's been mentioned as a living person in many time periods and locations when she couldn't have possibly lived, given that she lived during the Isu Era and Toba Catastrophe, so she couldn't have possibly lived until today, unless she's immortal, and while that is a very interesting theory and would make for a great twist, I don't know if we have anything to base this claim on.

On the other hand, we already know that she has a bloodline, since, as far as I remember, Galina's mother was a descendant of Eve.

Sorrosyss
08-13-2016, 09:16 PM
Thanks Rino. You know it's funny, I could have sworn I read the same about Galina's mother being an Eve descendant, but after searching around a bit today I could only find mention of her vision of Eve in the Animus.

RinoTheBouncer
08-13-2016, 09:20 PM
Thanks Rino. You know it's funny, I could have sworn I read the same about Galina's mother being an Eve descendant, but after searching around a bit today I could only find mention of her vision of Eve in the Animus.

You're most certainly welcome!
To be honest, I read that saw a vision of hers, but I wondered why would she if she isn't somehow linked to her? It was more of a conclusion that I made.

I don't know if she could've somehow entered The Grey, maybe Minerva helped her through or maybe Minerva made her a Sage. But the fact that she shows up in the Animus for someone makes her either an AI like Juno appeared to Clay while he was at Abstergo (The Lost Archives) or that she's a descendant of the person reliving those memories.

ze_topazio
08-13-2016, 10:05 PM
The fact that Eve could be someone we already know

There is only one answer.

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/460413508966813696/392elZp9_400x400.png

Mr.Black24
08-14-2016, 05:03 AM
One part of me wants to think big, like how you proposed that Eve is reincarnated through the years, like an anti-Sage of Juno if you will.

At the same time, I feel like it will be something smaller and right in front of our eyes, Desmond's son. I mean, Desmond's bloodline is special in that it has all the greatest Assassins of all time, so would it be far fetched that he would be descendant of Adam and Eve themselves?

RinoTheBouncer
08-14-2016, 10:57 AM
There is only one answer.

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/460413508966813696/392elZp9_400x400.png

Ahahahaha! Day = made


One part of me wants to think big, like how you proposed that Eve is reincarnated through the years, like an anti-Sage of Juno if you will.

At the same time, I feel like it will be something smaller and right in front of our eyes, Desmond's son. I mean, Desmond's bloodline is special in that it has all the greatest Assassins of all time, so would it be far fetched that he would be descendant of Adam and Eve themselves?

I've always wondered the same. I mean they seem to put all the great things in Desmond's bloodline, high concentration of Isu DNA, the descendant of Altair, Ezio, Connor and Edward Kenwaway, father of a Sage, savior of the world. Like the adds always seem to be on Desmond's side to make him even more special, so why not being a descendant of Adam and Eve?

Sorrosyss
08-14-2016, 11:45 AM
Well, it's entirely possible that the mother to Desmond's son was actually from Eve's line. The chances of that though, plus the culmination of the recessive Aita gene - it's beyond convenient. Just think how much Isu DNA he would be blessed with now...

Would be a fun repeat of the cycle though. Introducing Kane Miles, whose younger brother Abe died to mysterious circumstances.

:p

Ureh
08-14-2016, 01:30 PM
I find it somewhat difficult to believe that some random noblewoman would know that an artifact is even down in the crypts, let alone have the knowledge of what it contained. It is also interesting to note that for the subtitles the word lady is not even capitalised, suggesting that this Eve did not in fact even have such a title. Very interesting.



A lot of things from ACU and DK that I haven't made sense of yet.

Such as, Napoleon and how he knew about the artifact. Let's say this lady Eve somehow discovered that Napoleon had the key, or maybe she was the one to tip him off about it (if the latter, why did she choose him instead of paying someone else to retrieve it for her from the palace?). And why did she rely on Rose to steal the artifact, assuming she knew that he was incapable of unlocking the doors to the vault (it was Arno who solved the puzzles and gained access to the lantern)? Since she knew about the artifact then she also knew about the risk of Rose being tempted by the apple and even losing his mind to it (I'm assuming it's like any other PoE, where anyone can wield it with varying, yet equally disastrous results). Just seemed a bit too trusting when it comes to dealing with a person that seems to care more about coin.





If you did not want to be found, someone who had been hiding for generations would be very good at it. Admittedly the eye colour does not match (contact lenses!), and the face is not an exact match - but then several of the character models in Syndicate looked a little off. If it is Eve though, she is continuing the fight from the original Human-Isu war, and in a poetic cycle will lead the Assassins against the reborn Juno. I find it fascinating that this relatively unknown individual is suddenly running the shots for the Assassins. What are the Brotherhood leaders not saying that would suddenly allow this?

Part of me really likes the probability that she is Eve. But then that also makes me wonder why the long wait, right? If she's Eve, then surely she would've had some ideas and would've been able to provide more insight about the the solar flare, about the grand temple, of freeing Juno, something, anything!? Eve already lived through one catastrophe, so why stand on the side lines and potentially allow another one to happen in 2012?

We know that Tinia and Minerva were responsible for imprisoning Juno. And what of Eve? Did she play a role in Juno's capture? Minerva said that it was preferable to let the world burn than to let Juno go free, implying that Juno is now much much stronger than she was 75k years ago. Can Eve stand against such a being now if it took at least two other Isu to barely manage to imprison her?

For now, I'm just gonna assume that the reason why Bishop's existence was such a closely guarded secret is because of the events of the Cross comics... after that Mentor was slain they forbid high ranking assassins from revealing themselves until they are told otherwise by the Mentor. Bishop seems to be the replacement for Lucy's role, the one who usually called the shots and made sure to keep Shaun and Rebecca in line.




If you factor in that Eve was somehow after the Apple variant we found down there, she now knows that it was dispatched off to Cairo too. That's right, Egypt. The supposed next setting for the 2017 title. If the game begins with Bishop sending us to Egypt in search of the Apple, your conspiracy alarm bells should start ringing.

The Apple from Dead Kings was taken there in the late 18th century right? So if that's the artifact that the modern day assassins are looking for now, then that probably means the memories they need to relive are during late-18th century or after.

cawatrooper9
08-15-2016, 04:27 PM
Interesting. I've never heard the Bishop theory before- I don't really buy it necessarily, but I'll have to ponder it a little more.

I really like the idea of Eve being a Sage-like individual, though- sort of a counter to Aita throughout the ages. It would be cool to see the two of them meet up at times, too, locked in a constant battle throughout history.

Ubi-Banshee
08-15-2016, 04:48 PM
AMAZING theory and explanation as usual! I would love Eve to play a key role :o

Mr.Black24
08-17-2016, 06:24 PM
I really like the idea of Eve being a Sage-like individual, though- sort of a counter to Aita throughout the ages. It would be cool to see the two of them meet up at times, too, locked in a constant battle throughout history.

You know, this would be a neat idea to the one I already presented. Desmond's son is a Sage, but imagine that he also has Eve's memories/blood, the anti-sage of Atia. It would be a conflict of both sides like the Bleeding Effect. Juggling the memories of his Assassin ancestors, Eve's memories, Atia's, and his own conscious? Heavy stuff right there.

cawatrooper9
08-17-2016, 08:17 PM
You know, this would be a neat idea to the one I already presented. Desmond's son is a Sage, but imagine that he also has Eve's memories/blood, the anti-sage of Atia. It would be a conflict of both sides like the Bleeding Effect. Juggling the memories of his Assassin ancestors, Eve's memories, Atia's, and his own conscious? Heavy stuff right there.

Oh man, so he'd have both Eve and Aita? That'd be like the ultimate Chosen One, would be a very interesting dichotomy.

Sorrosyss
08-17-2016, 08:31 PM
He only has Adam's bloodline though, it never mentioned Eve. Its an assumption, but even so he'd still have Adam's Eden memories. As I said though, if the mother is Eve's line, combined with Aita and Adam's... May as well call him Neo. Hehe

Mr.Black24
08-18-2016, 04:52 AM
He only has Adam's bloodline though, it never mentioned Eve. Its an assumption, but even so he'd still have Adam's Eden memories.
This confuses me. How is Adam and Eve's bloodline separate when they had children together, Cain and Abel? Thats like saying Altair is Desmond's ancestor, but not Maria.



As I said though, if the mother is Eve's line, combined with Aita and Adam's... May as well call him Neo. Hehe


Oh man, so he'd have both Eve and Aita? That'd be like the ultimate Chosen One, would be a very interesting dichotomy.

Whats funny is that...I think we are on to something here. And it is right in front of us since Brotherhood....

Look at this Subject 16 video from Brotherhood.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGAei3thVhM

At 4:36 to 5:00,

"She is not who you think she is...."

He warns Desmond that Juno isn't what the Assassins think she is. He knows of her plans and tries to warn them and yet....

"Everything you hope to become, everything you hold dear, its already gone...."

He foresaw the end of 2012 and the saving the alternate history if Desmond left the pedestal that faithful day. If Desmond had not had touched it, and became a Jesus like figure to all the other people from now till his death, all of his teachings in the future, all will be used by evil people to control the masses.....Everything you hope to become, everything you hold dear, its already gone....

AT THE SAME TIME, he saw Desmond's saving the world will result in his death, so the phrase "Everything you hope to become" holds true, being alongside his father and friends, fighting Abstergo...seeing his mother again..... will be halted by that decision, his death is inevitable....

Now here is the kicker.

At 5:13, Clay tells Desmond that the key is in Eve's blood, her DNA. Desmond asks for clarification. He goes on to say

"I cannot...the sun...your son....."

The Sun- ​He warns of the sun's solar flare! That it will burn all the planet unless Desmond does something...giving his life up to save the world. Unfortunately something Clay wasn't able to do warn him about due to his weakened state....or is it because....

Your Son- Its not Desmond's place to know of Eve, because its not his destiny! It might be that of HIS SON!

Somehow, in some way, its Desmond's son that might lead the way to Eve, whenever its to find another with said bloodline, or it could be hidden deep within his own DNA as well. After all not only that he is a Sage, but also a descendant of Adam and Eve, perhaps he is the key as well? Can you imagine? Desmond already had the burden of going through all what Abstergo, the Isu, and the Bleeding Effect had on his person. Now imagine HIS OWN SON going through all of that as well, but with the addition of the overriding personality of the Sage fighting to take over his mind and body. If he really does have Eve's memories as well, then its two entities fighting for him now! Not only he will be fighting for his life against the Templars that would use him like they did with his father...but he can't even escape to the comfort of his own mind because from the Bleeding Effect he will go through relieving his ancestor's memories...but also from the aggressive takeover from the Sage himself.

Poor kid is going to be in a rough ride....

Sorrosyss
08-18-2016, 12:46 PM
Yeah, I mentioned this in the OP. It's really odd why it only states Adam and not Eve in his line. But then on that point too, we know that both hybrids lead the uprising, yet it's suddenly only Eve leading. What on earth happened to Adam? If they go down the whole Lilith route, then that could explain the seperate descendant line. But at this point we have a lot of questions and not many answers. It's kind of my attraction to this topic really, and I hope all of this teasing will lead to some narrative payoff soon.

cawatrooper9
08-18-2016, 02:13 PM
Yeah, I mentioned this in the OP. It's really odd why it only states Adam and not Eve in his line. But then on that point too, we know that both hybrids lead the uprising, yet it's suddenly only Eve leading. What on earth happened to Adam? If they go down the whole Lilith route, then that could explain the seperate descendant line. But at this point we have a lot of questions and not many answers. It's kind of my attraction to this topic really, and I hope all of this teasing will lead to some narrative payoff soon.

Is Lilith in AC Lore? Actually, is she even in the Bible, or is she more oral folklore?
Always found her to be an interesting character, wouldn't mind if they went this route either.

Sorrosyss
08-19-2016, 01:15 AM
I've not been able to find mention of Lilith in AC, unless she had a painting in one of the glyphs. You're correct though, she's not mentioned in the Bible - save perhaps for Jewish versions, which is where the folklore comes from. I believe she was mentioned in The Dead Sea Scrolls as well.

The story goes that she was created with Adam, was his first wife, but refused to be subservient - and was expelled from the Garden of Eden. Adam then married Eve. That all seems fine and dandy, but then Lilith supposedly went off into the darkness with an Angel, and as such it's why there is a lot of folklore around her and created night 'demons'. Prolly why she shows up as a villain in a lot of films and tv shows.

I suppose it would be interesting to see some kind of corrupted bloodline with red eagle vision or some other crazy stuff. But it may be getting a bit too mystical for AC. Still, the folklore extends throughout the Middle East, and AC has pulled from various religions and myths before - anything is possible.

Ureh
08-19-2016, 01:34 AM
Not sure if they ever showed Lilith but I remember there was a painting of Samson and Delilah. I guess it depends on who you ask if there's any correlation between Delilah and Lilith.

cawatrooper9
08-19-2016, 02:21 PM
The story goes that she was created with Adam, was his first wife, but refused to be subservient - and was expelled from the Garden of Eden. Adam then married Eve. That all seems fine and dandy, but then Lilith supposedly went off into the darkness with an Angel, and as such it's why there is a lot of folklore around her and created night 'demons'. Prolly why she shows up as a villain in a lot of films and tv shows.



To be honest, she sounds like she'd actually be the true original Assassin, and Adam and Eve are just Templar propaganda. That kind of throws a wrench into things.

Sorrosyss
08-19-2016, 07:57 PM
Not sure if they ever showed Lilith but I remember there was a painting of Samson and Delilah. I guess it depends on who you ask if there's any correlation between Delilah and Lilith.

Excellent point, I missed that. As you suggested, it seems in some circles they are one and the same person.


To be honest, she sounds like she'd actually be the true original Assassin, and Adam and Eve are just Templar propaganda. That kind of throws a wrench into things.

Now that'd be mind blowing. How ironic would it be for the 'Truth' video to be nothing more than a fake? I mean we always thought its flickery nature was purely from the damaged data or perhaps it's sheer age, but if it had been manipulated...

*dons tinfoil hat*

Mr.Black24
08-23-2016, 03:16 AM
Now that'd be mind blowing. How ironic would it be for the 'Truth' video to be nothing more than a fake? I mean we always thought its flickery nature was purely from the damaged data or perhaps it's sheer age, but if it had been manipulated...

*dons tinfoil hat* Thats some very thin ice right there!
Personally, I am extremely cautious about doing a recon on something that was deeply established long ago. It would be cool that if it was a fake and was something twisty all along, but it also depends what it is and how its executed. Its taking it too far to the point that it is no longer recognizable anymore is what I fear.

I just hope they touch on this, Eve, and Desmond's son soon!

ERICATHERINE
08-23-2016, 04:24 AM
If you factor in that Eve was somehow after the Apple variant we found down there, she now knows that it was dispatched off to Cairo too. That's right, Egypt. The supposed next setting for the 2017 title. If the game begins with Bishop sending us to Egypt in search of the Apple, your conspiracy alarm bells should start ringing.

It could have happened IF the apple was still there. Look at this link from 1794 august 9 to 1799 august 24.

http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

As you can read, Napoleon actually got that same apple in Cairo and then, returned to France to become it's next ruler. Another proof is that in a glyph of ac ii or ac b, we learn that Napoleon got an apple of eden. ^-^

Sorrosyss
03-25-2017, 02:08 PM
In a Reddit AMA (https://www.reddit.com/r/assassinscreed/comments/60pj33/i_am_aymar_azaizia_head_of_content_for_assassins/) conducted with Aymar Azaizia in March 2017, Eve's name came about again. Again no answers could be given, other than she is something that has been seeded - with the implication that something is therefore coming.

http://i.imgur.com/nZJwl4N.png

http://i.imgur.com/qnqtMV7.png

As resident Eve conspiracy theorist, I felt this needed bumping. :p

Sigma 1313
03-25-2017, 04:56 PM
So I've been thinking about the Truth Video a lot. Why did Adam and Eve steal the apple? They can't use it against the Isu, and they were immune, at least partially to its effects. I'm starting to think that Adam and Eve were the original Templars. Adam is the father of understanding. I don't know where Eve fits in though. Some people also brought up Lilith being the first assassin, and I think that's a really interesting idea to continue with.

Sorrosyss
03-25-2017, 05:05 PM
That may well have been the big twist back then. After all, you only hear "Eve will lead us". Does kind of sound like a split from Adam. We had Cain as the first Templar in AC2, so it may very well make sense that Adam and Eve argued over the use of the Apple. Eve wanted to hide it, Adam wanted to use it against the Isu - a similar theme we see with the way the two factions handle Pieces of Eden across the franchise. They'd be something beautiful in the fact that our main progenitors were the beginnings of the actual split in ideologies too.

SixKeys
03-25-2017, 05:42 PM
That may well have been the big twist back then. After all, you only hear "Eve will lead us". Does kind of sound like a split from Adam. We had Cain as the first Templar in AC2, so it may very well make sense that Adam and Eve argued over the use of the Apple. Eve wanted to hide it, Adam wanted to use it against the Isu - a similar theme we see with the way the two factions handle Pieces of Eden across the franchise. They'd be something beautiful in the fact that our main progenitors were the beginnings of the actual split in ideologies too.

I'm inclined to believe it was the other way around (if there is any truth to that theory). The clues are in the biblical mythology: it was Eve who took the Apple in the first place and she persuaded Adam to partake in the crime. The biblical account claims it was Eve's sin that led to mankind's suffering, so what she did is portrayed as a bad thing. However, the Assassins know that what Eve did actually led to the liberation of mankind from the tyranny of the Isu. The biblical tale is meant as a warning about rebelling against one's creator, so it's fair to assume it was the Isu who bastardized the story to make themselves (mankind's creators) look like the good guys.

It makes more sense to think it was Eve - the one who believed in liberating humans - who wanted to take direct action and Adam was the more hesitant one who only wanted to hide. I would say wanting to use the Apple as a weapon in this scenario was not the Templar thing to do but the Assassin thing, since it was directly tied to mankind's liberation. Wanting to hide the Apple, OTOH, would have been a cowardly and selfish act, borne from regret and self-preservation. Adam was possibly the one who started to have regrets, and maybe kickstarted the Templar ideology of returning from chaos to order, from freedom to slavery.

Now, another interesting question is: who was the "serpent" that planted the idea in Eve's head in the first place? :cool:

Sorrosyss
03-26-2017, 11:29 AM
Thats an interesting take on it Six, I hadn't really thought of it that way round. Nice theory.

As for the serpent, I'd like to think it was Juno but her father died after that point. The only other candidate at this point was Consus - whom went by the name Prometheus. According to popular myths he was the one that gave 'fire' to humanity to accelerate their growth, and was punished for it. It wouldn't be difficult to change that aspect to the 'fire' being an Apple, and lighting the spark of their great rebellion.

SixKeys
03-27-2017, 03:24 AM
Thats an interesting take on it Six, I hadn't really thought of it that way round. Nice theory.

As for the serpent, I'd like to think it was Juno but her father died after that point. The only other candidate at this point was Consus - whom went by the name Prometheus. According to popular myths he was the one that gave 'fire' to humanity to accelerate their growth, and was punished for it. It wouldn't be difficult to change that aspect to the 'fire' being an Apple, and lighting the spark of their great rebellion.

I haven't kept up with how the transmedia has expanded upon Consus, but I like the theory of him being possibly involved somehow. He's a member of the Isu, yes? Would be interesting if Eve had indeed gotten the idea to steal the Apple from someone else, and if that someone was part of the race who enslaved her kind in the first place, I would certainly want to know what his/her motives were. The Isu were in the middle of a civil war when the Toba Catastrophe occurred if I recall correctly. Perhaps there were political tensions brewing under the surface that someone like Consus/Prometheus would have found useful and therefore used the humans' rebellion as a distraction.

Elder-Kalakta
03-27-2017, 03:45 AM
I haven't kept up with how the transmedia has expanded upon Consus, but I like the theory of him being possibly involved somehow. He's a member of the Isu, yes? Would be interesting if Eve had indeed gotten the idea to steal the Apple from someone else, and if that someone was part of the race who enslaved her kind in the first place, I would certainly want to know what his/her motives were. The Isu were in the middle of a civil war when the Toba Catastrophe occurred if I recall correctly. Perhaps there were political tensions brewing under the surface that someone like Consus/Prometheus would have found useful and therefore used the humans' rebellion as a distraction.

*Isu nerd mode*

The War of Unification was waged during Consus' time, yes. This was three hundred years before before Juno "found" him.

However, according to Consus, "we created devastating swords to end it" would imply that the war has ended and the Isu did unify.

Humans weren't around during said war and Consus seemed to be fascinated by us as he never imagined "machines" like us similar to how someone from 1930 would never even dream of your amazing smartphone that you can just touch the glass and it just responds *mind blown*. This is probably what it was like for Consus, seeing us must've blown all six senses outta his incorporeal head.

So I think you're onto something here, Consus does seem like the more nicer Isu of the bunch. And him being known as "Prometheus" adds to your theory - he who gave man fire. Prometheus and the Serpent both contributed to us gaining some form of knowledge.

Plus, Consus is the only one still actively trying to help us even way after Minerva and Tinia seem to have abandoned us to Juno's devices.

On a side note, coming back to you saying the Isu were in the middle of a civil war - we know that Neanderthals were made as a military force, and Juno's words do add weight to us being created not just "for hard labour", but in extreme cases, war. She does mention "times of strife" in AC3 when telling Desmond about their electromagnetic shield rings. So, despite being a unified race, the Isu still no doubt had factions that tried to secede from the global empire.

I can definitely see it now, Consus most likely conversed with Eve and guided her towards stealing an Apple.

joshoolhorst
04-06-2018, 08:53 AM
Do we have any updates on the Eve plot now it has been a while since we talked about it now:)