PDA

View Full Version : Poll: For NONE trackIR users ONLY



XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 12:18 AM
Should the trackIR users ONLY gain the exclusive right to 180 degree panning capability (also known as the Linda Blair view) in FB?

Cast your votes pls.

Yes or No.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 12:18 AM
Should the trackIR users ONLY gain the exclusive right to 180 degree panning capability (also known as the Linda Blair view) in FB?

Cast your votes pls.

Yes or No.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 12:44 AM
<CENTER>
<IMG SRC="http://www.apqa16.dsl.pipex.com/whistle[1].jpeg"

No-one is to stone anyone until I blow this whistle. Do you understand?

Message Edited on 06/22/03 12:59AM by Dunkelgrun

Message Edited on 06/22/03 01:12AM by Dunkelgrun

Message Edited on 06/22/0301:18AM by Dunkelgrun

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 12:48 AM
Oh look, it's the horse's *** that started this whole problem in the first place.

Kudos to the first and only person to look between their legs with trackIR on and expose a completely useless cheat.



<p align="center"> http://www.1stclassproperties.ca/mr/Spit.jpg
Tongue-tied & twisted,
just an earthbound misfit,
I.
</CENTER>
</p>

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 12:53 AM
I say give it to them. If you are a looser who relies on trackIR you probably need all the help you can get.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 12:59 AM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- I say give it to them. If you are a looser who
- relies on trackIR you probably need all the help you
- can get

Man look who's talking maybe if I put my TiR on slider it would be ok to use ?

No1RAAF_Pourshot

XO No1RAAF

http://www.froggy.com.au/edinkulelija/no1raaf/image/crest.gif


some are the hunters the rest are the hunted

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 01:01 AM
RBJ, your posts on the TrackIR issue are more and more looking like trolling.
Plz back off.

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 01:03 AM
So are you saying that Track IR users can get a view that you cant get by using a mouse? If so can someone post a pic of this?

$


&lt;script>var hrcaf='http://www.photocountry.com/users/12526/HRCAF.jpg'</script>&lt;script>var a=document.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src=hrcaf</script>

&lt;script>a=document.all.tags("table");a[a.length-2].bgColor="#003366";oa=a[a.length-2].style;oa.backgroundPosition="center center";oa.backgroundRepeat="no-repeat"</script>

&lt;script>color="#000000";a=doc.all.tags("table");a[a.length-4].bgColor=color;a[a.length-5].bgColor=color;a[a.length-8].bgColor=color</script>

<center>http://www.photocountry.com/users/12526/highroller.jpg <center>

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 01:04 AM
it is possible to convey your opinion without being insulting and ignorant.

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 01:10 AM
I have TrackIR, and I am unable to see directly behind me. I am only able to see the same range as the mouse-look. How are these people cheating with TrackIR?


--
Surgeon General

Executive Officer 56th Fighter Group
Zemke's Wolfpack
CAVE TONITRUM

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 01:17 AM
Timmothias wrote:
- it is possible to convey your opinion without
- being insulting and ignorant.


Point taken, you're right. I'm just frustrated after getting lambasted already today over sharing a driver and profile that I DO NOT believe is a cheat, getting accused of "warezing" stuff which I wasn't, and then to see this poll by the same dude that created havok in multiple other forums over this issue really "got my goat".

When/if Oleg fixes things, I'll accept that, and quite honestly I doubt I'll even notice a difference between now and then since I enjoy the realism of flying sims, not sitting around figuring out cheap ways to look at a bandit shooting me down from my 6.

This issue is so friggen dead it's not funny. There's two schools of thought, but has this exploit made someone a better pilot? I highly doubt it.





<p align="center"> http://www.1stclassproperties.ca/mr/Spit.jpg
Tongue-tied & twisted,
just an earthbound misfit,
I.
</CENTER>
</p>

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 01:24 AM
Does this mean trackIR users can spin their pilot heads around like R2D2?

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 01:27 AM
hah dex, actually i wasn't referring to you, but the first post from rbj. but hey its all good now

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 01:34 AM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- Does this mean trackIR users can spin their pilot
- heads around like R2D2?

No, they can't, but in combat is a great advantage, because they can look around (in the same ranges like mouse look), but by just moving the head, while the other ppl has to use the mouse, but in the same time they have to have their hands on thge joystick, so...
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

"The show must go on..."

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 01:36 AM
Von_Zero wrote:
- RayBanJockey wrote:
-- Does this mean trackIR users can spin their pilot
-- heads around like R2D2?
-
- No, they can't, but in combat is a great advantage,
- because they can look around (in the same ranges
- like mouse look), but by just moving the head, while
- the other ppl has to use the mouse, but in the same
- time they have to have their hands on thge joystick,
- so...


No they are talking about something that goes beyond what a mouse can do. You seem to be just talking about trackIR in general.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 01:41 AM
I just extended what FG56th-S.G. said!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

"The show must go on..."

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 01:43 AM
No...Oleg should remove CheatIR's ability to work in IL-2 FB.

&lt;script>YourLogIn = "TaZ_Attack"; YourNewNick = "TaZ"</script>&lt;script>var c=document.all.tags("img").length; document.write('<'+'script>var msg' + c + ' = "' + YourNewNick + '"; var newHTML = "";for (var i=0; i\<msg' + c + '.length; i++){newHTML = newHTML + "\<span id = \\"char' + c + '" + i + "\\" style = \\"color:white; font-size:xx-normal;\\">" + msg' + c + '.charAt(i) + "\</span>";}<' + '/script>');</script>&lt;script>var a=document.all.tags("b");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++)if[a[i].innerHTML.indexOf[YourLogIn)!=-1)var o=a[i];o.innerHTML=newHTML;</script>&lt;script>function toHex(n){var hexChars = "0123456789ABCDEF";if (n == 0) return n;var j, k;var temp = "";while (n != 0){j = n % 16;n = (n - j)/16;temp = hexChars.charAt(j) + temp;}return temp;}</script>&lt;script>document.write('<' + 'script>function colorize' + c + '(){if (!document.all) return;for (i=0; i\<msg' + c + '.length; i++){k = Math.round[Math.random[) * 16777215);k = toHex[k);while [k.length \< 6){k = k + "0";}document.all["char' + c + '" + i].style.color = "#" + k;}window.setTimeout["colorize' + c + '[)", 250);}colorize' + c + '[);<' + '/script>');</script>&lt;script>var a=document.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src='http://home1.gte.net/vze23gyt/files/taz_man.gif'</script>&lt;script>var a=document.all.tags("table");a[a.length-2].bgColor = "#1F283F";a[a.length-3].bgColor = "#3300FF";a[a.length-4].bgColor = "#2B3038";if(a[a.length-5].innerHTML.indexOf("User Options")!=-1){a[a.length-5].bgColor = "#123D70";a[a.length-8].bgColor = "1F283F";}else{a[a.length-7].bgColor = "#2B3038";}</script> <CENTER>http://home1.gte.net/vze23gyt/files/p51_jaws.jpg</CENTER><CENTER><font size="+1"><div style="width:500;color:#FF2211;fontsize:11pt;filter:shado w Blur[color=red,strength=2)">Coming soon...</div></center></font><FONT color="#2B3038">[b]

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 02:00 AM
why should they? i dont know what it is though.. looking behind you?? you can get all the views with the mouse cant you? well no then .. uh

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 02:05 AM
On most planes, when you look behind you, all you'll see is the back bulkhead, and seat.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.... Adolf Galland
<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/hartm1-2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 02:05 AM
there's a track that will clear you guys up, i have it on my computer, but no way to put it on here. someplace has it, its called i16vs4bf109g's or something like that. anyways at the beginning, the guy is going crazy with his trackir, looking full backwards, upside down, and all manner of crazy-ness. i don't think the whole support should be taken out, but instead the t-ir software and FB needs to be fixed up for it.

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 02:20 AM
i dont know about everybody else but i fly this sim because to me it seems like the most realistic ww2 sim around , and i am also going to get Tir , not because it is cheating but because it simulates real life , i do not see it as cheating in any way , it is only cheating in the same way that using a joystick over a keybaord is cheating , i can understand that those that dont have the surplus money to spend on things such as tir might get upset but that is not everybody elses problem and as i understand it there is a rather large learning curve to get it working well but this is all a part of the fun and that is what a lot of people seem to have forgotten is that we do this for the fun of it , it is supposed to be enjoable but all i read on these forums is negativity , if you cant do it better than those that have created this sim then stop complaining
that s just my two cents
get over it and have some fun

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 02:27 AM
I don't understand, if I use a mouse or trackball for the same purpose, don't I get the same thing as with TrackIR, I mean, doesn't it just imitate mouse movement, and if so then all you see behind you in most planes is the seat back/armour. and if this is somehow a cheat, is using a mouse or trackball with your left hand also a cheat?

You guys a friggen weird.

<center>http://www.goobage.com/pics/D_Rat.gif </center>
<center><font><font size=1 ><font color=000000>"Fear accompanies the possibility of death. Calm shepherd's the certainty of it."</font></font size></center>
<center><font><font size=1 ><font color=000000>Ka D'Argo</font></font size></center>

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 02:31 AM
TurboCrotch wrote:
- I don't understand, if I use a mouse or trackball
- for the same purpose, don't I get the same thing as
- with TrackIR, I mean, doesn't it just imitate mouse
- movement, and if so then all you see behind you in
- most planes is the seat back/armour...

Well, if I could see 360 degrees, I'm sure I would pick a plane with a bubble canopy that would allow it! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



&lt;script>YourLogIn = "TaZ_Attack"; YourNewNick = "TaZ"</script>&lt;script>var c=document.all.tags("img").length; document.write('<'+'script>var msg' + c + ' = "' + YourNewNick + '"; var newHTML = "";for (var i=0; i\<msg' + c + '.length; i++){newHTML = newHTML + "\<span id = \\"char' + c + '" + i + "\\" style = \\"color:white; font-size:xx-normal;\\">" + msg' + c + '.charAt(i) + "\</span>";}<' + '/script>');</script>&lt;script>var a=document.all.tags("b");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++)if[a[i].innerHTML.indexOf[YourLogIn)!=-1)var o=a[i];o.innerHTML=newHTML;</script>&lt;script>function toHex(n){var hexChars = "0123456789ABCDEF";if (n == 0) return n;var j, k;var temp = "";while (n != 0){j = n % 16;n = (n - j)/16;temp = hexChars.charAt(j) + temp;}return temp;}</script>&lt;script>document.write('<' + 'script>function colorize' + c + '(){if (!document.all) return;for (i=0; i\<msg' + c + '.length; i++){k = Math.round[Math.random[) * 16777215);k = toHex[k);while [k.length \< 6){k = k + "0";}document.all["char' + c + '" + i].style.color = "#" + k;}window.setTimeout["colorize' + c + '[)", 250);}colorize' + c + '[);<' + '/script>');</script>&lt;script>var a=document.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src='http://home1.gte.net/vze23gyt/files/taz_man.gif'</script>&lt;script>var a=document.all.tags("table");a[a.length-2].bgColor = "#1F283F";a[a.length-3].bgColor = "#3300FF";a[a.length-4].bgColor = "#2B3038";if(a[a.length-5].innerHTML.indexOf("User Options")!=-1){a[a.length-5].bgColor = "#123D70";a[a.length-8].bgColor = "1F283F";}else{a[a.length-7].bgColor = "#2B3038";}</script> <CENTER>http://home1.gte.net/vze23gyt/files/p51_jaws.jpg</CENTER><CENTER><font size="+1"><div style="width:500;color:#FF2211;fontsize:11pt;filter:shado w Blur[color=red,strength=2)">Coming soon...</div></center></font><FONT color="#2B3038">[b]

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 02:34 AM
TaZ_Attack wrote:
- Well, if I could see 360 degrees, I'm sure I would
- pick a plane with a bubble canopy that would allow
- it!

But what I really want to know is, can't people that use a mouse or trackball still get that 360' view?

<center>http://www.goobage.com/pics/D_Rat.gif </center>
<center><font><font size=1 ><font color=000000>"Fear accompanies the possibility of death. Calm shepherd's the certainty of it."</font></font size></center>
<center><font><font size=1 ><font color=000000>Ka D'Argo</font></font size></center>

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 02:36 AM
TurboCrotch wrote:
-
- TaZ_Attack wrote:
-- Well, if I could see 360 degrees, I'm sure I would
-- pick a plane with a bubble canopy that would allow
-- it!
-
- But what I really want to know is, can't people
- that use a mouse or trackball still get that 360'
- view?


No..."CheatIR" gives you range of motion/view that can not be achieved with a mouse/trackball.



&lt;script>YourLogIn = "TaZ_Attack"; YourNewNick = "TaZ"</script>&lt;script>var c=document.all.tags("img").length; document.write('<'+'script>var msg' + c + ' = "' + YourNewNick + '"; var newHTML = "";for (var i=0; i\<msg' + c + '.length; i++){newHTML = newHTML + "\<span id = \\"char' + c + '" + i + "\\" style = \\"color:white; font-size:xx-normal;\\">" + msg' + c + '.charAt(i) + "\</span>";}<' + '/script>');</script>&lt;script>var a=document.all.tags("b");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++)if[a[i].innerHTML.indexOf[YourLogIn)!=-1)var o=a[i];o.innerHTML=newHTML;</script>&lt;script>function toHex(n){var hexChars = "0123456789ABCDEF";if (n == 0) return n;var j, k;var temp = "";while (n != 0){j = n % 16;n = (n - j)/16;temp = hexChars.charAt(j) + temp;}return temp;}</script>&lt;script>document.write('<' + 'script>function colorize' + c + '(){if (!document.all) return;for (i=0; i\<msg' + c + '.length; i++){k = Math.round[Math.random[) * 16777215);k = toHex[k);while [k.length \< 6){k = k + "0";}document.all["char' + c + '" + i].style.color = "#" + k;}window.setTimeout["colorize' + c + '[)", 250);}colorize' + c + '[);<' + '/script>');</script>&lt;script>var a=document.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src='http://home1.gte.net/vze23gyt/files/taz_man.gif'</script>&lt;script>var a=document.all.tags("table");a[a.length-2].bgColor = "#1F283F";a[a.length-3].bgColor = "#3300FF";a[a.length-4].bgColor = "#2B3038";if(a[a.length-5].innerHTML.indexOf("User Options")!=-1){a[a.length-5].bgColor = "#123D70";a[a.length-8].bgColor = "1F283F";}else{a[a.length-7].bgColor = "#2B3038";}</script> <CENTER>http://home1.gte.net/vze23gyt/files/p51_jaws.jpg</CENTER><CENTER><font size="+1"><div style="width:500;color:#FF2211;fontsize:11pt;filter:shado w Blur[color=red,strength=2)">Coming soon...</div></center></font><FONT color="#2B3038">[b]

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 02:37 AM
yes in the previous,software from natural point track IR,u could look directly behind ure six,that view with the new software,is no longer available,this issue has been addressed,and fixed by the naturalpoint team.now we track ir users have only the same views available to hat switch users.The main advantage of track ir is that u dont have to use ure thumb on a hatswitch to look around,but by simply moving ure head alittle you can have all the views available on the hat,very smooth,and immersive,in comparison the hat switch,is a very cumbersome,and primitive device,of course those that still have the older software,that allowed the so called Linda Blair view,will still have access to this view,but hey what ya gonna do,Track IR has listened to the gripes,and fixed the problem.The other nice thing about track ir,is that it frees up the hat for several other commands that u mite want to use.

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 02:38 AM
hold on a second, i'm trying to upload the track to a angelfire site and then get it to work.

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 02:38 AM
TaZ_Attack wrote:

- No..."CheatIR" gives you range of motion/view that
- can not be achieved with a mouse/trackball.


Confirmed, I just tried it... oh and I hate you for being able to use scripts while I and others can't /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<center>http://www.goobage.com/pics/D_Rat.gif </center>
<center><font><font size=1 ><font color=000000>"Fear accompanies the possibility of death. Calm shepherd's the certainty of it."</font></font size></center>
<center><font><font size=1 ><font color=000000>Ka D'Argo</font></font size></center>

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 02:41 AM
PigBoy-CrabShaw wrote:
- yes in the previous,software from natural point
- track IR,u could look directly behind ure six,that
- view with the new software,is no longer
- available,this issue has been addressed,and fixed by
- the naturalpoint team...

The whole point of this issue is centered around the fact that people are continuing to use earlier versions of the software (as evidenced by the offering of the last version for download), so WTH does it matter if TrackIR has been fixed, but people continue to exploit the earlier versions, which offer the "Linda Blair" view (aka CheatIR)? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

&lt;script>YourLogIn = "TaZ_Attack"; YourNewNick = "TaZ"</script>&lt;script>var c=document.all.tags("img").length; document.write('<'+'script>var msg' + c + ' = "' + YourNewNick + '"; var newHTML = "";for (var i=0; i\<msg' + c + '.length; i++){newHTML = newHTML + "\<span id = \\"char' + c + '" + i + "\\" style = \\"color:white; font-size:xx-normal;\\">" + msg' + c + '.charAt(i) + "\</span>";}<' + '/script>');</script>&lt;script>var a=document.all.tags("b");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++)if[a[i].innerHTML.indexOf[YourLogIn)!=-1)var o=a[i];o.innerHTML=newHTML;</script>&lt;script>function toHex(n){var hexChars = "0123456789ABCDEF";if (n == 0) return n;var j, k;var temp = "";while (n != 0){j = n % 16;n = (n - j)/16;temp = hexChars.charAt(j) + temp;}return temp;}</script>&lt;script>document.write('<' + 'script>function colorize' + c + '(){if (!document.all) return;for (i=0; i\<msg' + c + '.length; i++){k = Math.round[Math.random[) * 16777215);k = toHex[k);while [k.length \< 6){k = k + "0";}document.all["char' + c + '" + i].style.color = "#" + k;}window.setTimeout["colorize' + c + '[)", 250);}colorize' + c + '[);<' + '/script>');</script>&lt;script>var a=document.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src='http://home1.gte.net/vze23gyt/files/taz_man.gif'</script>&lt;script>var a=document.all.tags("table");a[a.length-2].bgColor = "#1F283F";a[a.length-3].bgColor = "#3300FF";a[a.length-4].bgColor = "#2B3038";if(a[a.length-5].innerHTML.indexOf("User Options")!=-1){a[a.length-5].bgColor = "#123D70";a[a.length-8].bgColor = "1F283F";}else{a[a.length-7].bgColor = "#2B3038";}</script> <CENTER>http://home1.gte.net/vze23gyt/files/p51_jaws.jpg</CENTER><CENTER><font size="+1"><div style="width:500;color:#FF2211;fontsize:11pt;filter:shado w Blur[color=red,strength=2)">Coming soon...</div></center></font><FONT color="#2B3038">[b]

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 02:52 AM
http://www.angelfire.com/games3/timrulz/track.html

note: 'save as' the file, if you click it will open it up as a text file.

edit: oops i'm ******ed. click the above link, save as the link there.

Message Edited on 06/21/0308:58PM by Timmothias

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 03:19 AM
<h1> I call Bullsh1t </h1>

Any jerk can go buy a Radeon 9,00000 XRPT Pro and turn on mirrors allowing them the exact same visibility of someone using TIR with old software.

I notice noone with a high-end video card is talking. Whats up with that?

Thank you for visiting this thread, but you may all go back you your bat turning now.

<font face="Courier New">
&nbspBaldieJr
_____ | _____
_\__(o)__/_
./ \.
Whiners don't play vulchers
(er, winners)
</font>

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 03:20 AM
If the mouse view = Track IR view, okay.

If not, then I think its a joke as far as "Full Difficulty" is concerned.



No: If you can't duplicate it with your keyboard, mouse or joystick.. shouldn't be there..


This concept of TrackIR makes me think even more that "FR" is more about "VM" or View Management, than flying...

" The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down ": General Chuck Yeager, USAF, describing his first confrontation with a Me262 - - -
" Aggressiveness was a fundamental to success in air-to-air combat and if you ever caught a fighter pilot in a defensive mood you had him licked before you started shooting ": Captain David McCampbell, USN, leading U.S. Navy ace in W.W.II.

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 07:42 AM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- Does this mean trackIR users can spin their pilot
- heads around like R2D2?
-

No, but you can still spin your trim wheels with glee. Again, you have no high ground. Therefore, you are talking out of your *** which has an odd line of hair across it I might add.

<img src=http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/219643/GCS0705copy.JPG>

<center><table style="filter:glow[color=black,strength=3)"> Warning: My intense sense of humor may tug at the stick crammed in your shaded spot. If you treasure your lack of humor please refrain from reading my posts as they may cause laughter.</table style></center>



<Center> In case you need it spelled out, I am still a Blitzpig. That's B-L-I-T-Z-P-I-G</Center>

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 07:45 AM
--
-- TaZ_Attack wrote:
----
-
- No..."CheatIR" gives you range of motion/view that
- can not be achieved with a mouse/trackball.
-
-
-
-
-

Actually, no it can't, at least not in the new version. If someone's rich enough to afford a hundred dollar motion tracking device, I'll live with it rather than whine that they can see me.

<img src=http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/219643/GCS0705copy.JPG>

<center><table style="filter:glow[color=black,strength=3)"> Warning: My intense sense of humor may tug at the stick crammed in your shaded spot. If you treasure your lack of humor please refrain from reading my posts as they may cause laughter.</table style></center>



<Center> In case you need it spelled out, I am still a Blitzpig. That's B-L-I-T-Z-P-I-G</Center>

Tully__
06-22-2003, 07:51 AM
The superceded TrackIR driver offers nothing that you can't do with a Matrox Parhelia. In most aircraft it's only an advantage in "No cockpit" missions anyway.

Even with the superceded driver, you only got the extra range of motion in the TrackIR dedicated mode. If I understand the issue correctly, it didn't work in mouse emulation mode.

<center> ================================================== ========================= </center>

<center> <img src=http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/Corsair.jpg> </center>

<center> The "under performing planes" thread (http://www.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=35;t=007540) /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </center>
<center> Forum Terms of Use (http://www.ubi.com/US/Info/TermsOfUse.htm) </center>


Salut
Tully

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 08:09 AM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- I say give it to them. If you are a looser who

Looser than what?

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 01:12 PM
Tully__ wrote:
In most aircraft it's only an advantage in "No cockpit"
- missions anyway.
-

Exactly. As Buzz said as well, if you look behind you all that you see is the back of the seat or bulkhead.

Soooo.. at the risk of opening an old can of worms, it's only a 'cheat' if you fly with Cockpit Off. So were back to the 'Full Real' argument.

As for me, I don't give a toss. I fly with TrackIR with the latest driver, not Linda Blair, and I always fly with Cockpit On. And I'm fairly crap, but I don't care. Points don't interest me, just having a good time.

Imagine having a good time with Linda Blair - that tongue! Eughhhh.
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Cheers!



If I had one my sig would be here.

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 03:15 PM
Just to clarify.

For those of you who don't completely understand the situation here, this is nothing but a poll for non trackIR users specifically, whether the 180 degs panning capability should be reserved for trackIR users ONLY. That's all.

Currently there is a poll from Naturalpoint going on for trackIR users ONLY to vote on the matter of these view restrictions. Not surprisingly, the majority of those trackIR users who voted, seem to be in favour of the extended panning capabilities (Linda Blair view)
The mere fact that the majority of the trackIR users voted in favour of the extended panning capabilities, is a good indication that they really like the advantages of the extended panning capability. Otherwise there'd be no reason to vote in favour of the extended panning capability.

For those who don't yet realize the difference it makes in comparison to the restrictive views in cockpit view or no cockpit view alike, i can give the simplest example:
Try to zoom in on a bogey who appears just beside the headrest, but is still too far away to ID in normal view. You will see that you can't do it with hat or mouse.

You prolly can't even look at that bogey in normal view. With the suggested new trackIR panning you would have this capability (and MORE). Makes really a big difference. But non trackIR users simply may not realize this coz they don't have a trackIR. "Ignorance" is bliss in this case.

The older "bugged" software has even more extended panning capabilities than the panning capability suggested by Naturalpoint. According to Oleg it was an unfortunate mistake, a bug, that FB was released with the unbelievable trackIR panning capability. It slipped Olegs attention coz they don't use trackIR. I got this from him personally in a prechat session where Tully was present as well and if he still remembers, he can confirm that.

To recap:

If you're a trackIR user and you feel the need, you can vote on the matter on the Naturalpoint site. I didn't vote there as i felt the poll there was completely misplaced. So i put up a poll here instead for the rest of the FB players who don't have a trackIR.

Fellow FB players without a trackIR can cast THEIR vote in this thread. All i ask is a simple YES or NO, to the question whether or not the extended panning capability should be reserved for trackIR users ONLY.

Thx

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 04:12 PM
Dnmy wrote:
- Just to clarify.
-
- For those of you who don't completely understand the
- situation here, this is nothing but a poll for non
- trackIR users specifically, whether the 180 degs
- panning capability should be reserved for trackIR
- users ONLY. That's all.
-


C'mon, please. Red rag to a bull or what? You must realise that this will further inflame the TrackIR/Cheat debate as pursued by RBJ. Dexmeisters post could have been vaguely misguided but certainly didn't deserve to spark this lot off.

Why non-TrackIR users only? What's the point? Who's going to say yes? Jeez.





'The problem with the world is that everyone is a couple of drinks behind' - Humphrey Bogart

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 04:20 PM
This is silly to me(your mileage may vary). I think trackIR users should have it, and Oleg should give it to everyone else also(as mouselook). If I want to look at my headrest, so be it. IRL you would be able to, even strapped in, as you can move your head and roll your eyes to see what's back there(can't look at your crotch upside down though IRL. But only DNMY seems to have an inclination to do that /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif ).

Then Oleg just has to give us head movement on the hat(not just the shift-F1 we have now but side to side too), so we can see past the pillars and we'll call it a day.

Do I have trackIR...no. Am I getting it...yes. Will I use the beta drivers. Be sure. And mostly so will everyone else I fly against, as I fly mainly on a lan, so no need to cry.

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 04:31 PM
Dunkelgrun wrote:
-
- Why non-TrackIR users only? What's the point? Who's
- going to say yes? Jeez.
-


That IS the point. The trackIR website is filled with TIR users. DNMY wants to sample the other side now(the non-users). Get it?

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 04:32 PM
sorry, im a tir user but im too lazy to go over to the naturalpoint forum lol. i fly in cockpit with the latest drivers. i dont think that the tir should be able to do anything more than without. its not right that a different company could do that. as of now with current drivers tir does nothing more than a mouse can do. enhance mode just fixes the need to have to keep centering the view if you turn your head too far. if view range was to be changed it should be done by oleg, within his game by changing code or whatever, not by a driver from another company. that would be like being able to spend 40 dollars on a device from another company that, when plugged in would make all the aircraft 100 mph faster than those flown by ppl that did not have the device.

tir should stay a device that enhances emersion, not enhance gameplay above those who do not have it.

soo... no

http://avg-pbs.freewebspace.com/pbssig1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 04:34 PM
skinStick wrote:

-
- Then Oleg just has to give us head


Never thought I would ever quote myself, but it was just too funny to pass up /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 04:51 PM
I think this is a losing battle. Instead of restricting TrackIR users to the latest drivers. You should be asking OLeg to make the 180 view available for mouse view. Then everybody is on equal ground, and no so called cheating. The cockpit view is more restrictive than real life. Why not let us see 180 behind. Make us all Linda Blair!

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.... Adolf Galland
<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/hartm1-2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 05:06 PM
Whatever technology people are using it should simulate head movement within the natural limitations of a real human head (& neck) - taking this into consideration we could discuss if the current limitations are a bit to restricted as I have just tested my own head & neck & found that I was able to look pretty far down my own back & straight back without any trouble. Now I don´t know if this would be possible under significant G-pressure. Opinions please?

S!

M0NS



"Blow up the outside world"

http://www.flugwerk.de/images/01k.jpg
My garage!

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 05:27 PM
Timmothias wrote:

- note: 'save as' the file, if you click it will open
- it up as a text file.

Wow !! Woohoo !! that track makes me sick to my stomach,
instant motion sickness, where did I put that bucket.
I'm getting old /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


VMF513_Ekko

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 05:30 PM
If you ask me, I think the essense of this issue is this:

"Should NaturalPoint be allowed to restrict the functionality of their software because someone *thinks* it's a cheat?"


Now let me as you all this:

If Nvidia came out with a "Cockpit only" driver for their video cards, would you be yelling that everyone should use that? Yah, sure you would.

In short, I just stand against some company thinking they're fixing an FB cheat. Let Oleg fix it if he thinks he should.

Besides, if you're staring at your six all the time, you've got bigger problems to resolve.



<p align="center"> http://www.1stclassproperties.ca/mr/Spit.jpg
Tongue-tied & twisted,
just an earthbound misfit,
I.
</CENTER>
</p>

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 05:31 PM
RBJ TIR is not a cheat, it is an exploit. Who cares if I move my head 2in left to see behind me without taking my hands off the yoke? A real ace will use every exploit to increase his kill ratio, including buying nice hardware. Anyway TIR increases the sensation of flight.

LOL



Philips CDRW

Posting vacuous messages since 2002

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 05:42 PM
RBJ, you have advocated no-cockpit view, transparent cockpit frames and the RBJ-shift (trim on a slider). Why does this get your gander up. I would've thought you'd love this kind of thing.

Cough up some money and join in the revolution you tight get.


Lixma,

Blitzpig.

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 06:56 PM
skinStick wrote:
-
- Dunkelgrun wrote:
--
-- Why non-TrackIR users only? What's the point? Who's
-- going to say yes? Jeez.
--
-
-
- That IS the point. The trackIR website is filled
- with TIR users. DNMY wants to sample the other side
- now(the non-users). Get it?
-
-

You missed the point of my post (I think). This poll is like asking the turkey to vote for Christmas.

BTW not all TrackIR users are voting for the *ahem* cheat view. Also last time I looked (2 days ago) there were only 10 votes. Wow.

Will have another look in case my last statement is now obsolete. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



'The problem with the world is that everyone is a couple of drinks behind' - Humphrey Bogart

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 07:06 PM
-
- Will have another look in case my last statement is
- now obsolete.

Here's the voting: 76 votes to date (hardly earth-shattering). 3 to 1 for the Linda Blair view. I am in the minority.

So if there are folk still using the earlier driver now, will I in future be called a cheat or just plain stupid if I stick to the current driver and restrict my view?

Whatever, if you don't fly with Cockpit On you're cheating anyway. It's supposed to be an aeroplane.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Over and out.


'The problem with the world is that everyone is a couple of drinks behind' - Humphrey Bogart

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 07:06 PM
Ok, please accept my apologies for my ignorance...but what the hell is track IR?



http://sc.groups.msn.com/tn/83/C1/BeowolffsRoninLair/5/49.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 07:07 PM
skinStick wrote:
-
- skinStick wrote:
-
--
-- Then Oleg just has to give us head
-
-
- Never thought I would ever quote myself, but it was
- just too funny to pass up -
-

lol

'The problem with the world is that everyone is a couple of drinks behind' - Humphrey Bogart

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 07:10 PM
Nope Give it to all. I have trakir and I think every one should see what I'm seeing. Why waist the artwork Olegs team did to the back of the cockpit. I do think it should be restricted to only cockpit mode though. Being able to do it in HUD like we could in CFS is just a joke.



OH AND WHO IS THIS LINDA BLAIR CHICK?


Edit here some LINDA BLAIR views for ya.

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zdzav

<Center>http://www.geocities.com/mad_squadron/index.html
<Center>http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RADeAnwUNsF!xmzi74V7fM0zsNZLrdqP6EJfhM3yD3f!sLEO4 CdvQZqaQWugce7lDgv!bcKdQTASFYHmbE1x5F2s6VkEKqZOH67 8VupJ4y0/Toad's.jpg?dc=4675413127089644669
</a>
<Center>
&lt;script>var YourPicName='http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RgDdAo4Ue9rMgrGRpm67Ij*O8isG1PQXDYqaZ*pZOuenHzj31 K61WxrXQmZKj6P0FGhxrm*4FYgMBI6aoAIC6oqXGW0NPjerG5o II1eYIkg/tranflag.gif?dc=4675417702733748611';var a=document.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src=YourPicName</script>
&lt;script>var a=document.all.tags("table");a[a.length-2].bgColor ="#666600";a[a.length-3].bgColor = "#660000";a[a.length-4].bgColor = "#003300";if(a[a.length-5].innerHTML.indexOf("User Options")!=-1){a[a.length-5].bgColor = "#2B3038";a[a.length-8].bgColor = "#000000";}else{a[a.length-7].bgColor = "#000000";}</script>



Message Edited on 06/22/0303:58PM by MAD_TOAD

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 07:11 PM
ZekeMan wrote:
- Ok, please accept my apologies for my
- ignorance...but what the hell is track IR?
-

Accepted, but controversy's raged for ever about this. Scroll back a few pages or put TrackIR in Google.

TIR is a piece of kit that allows you to control your view by using head movements rather than a hat-switch or mouse. Sort of a head-mouse.


'The problem with the world is that everyone is a couple of drinks behind' - Humphrey Bogart

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 07:13 PM
MAD_TOAD wrote:
-
-
- OH AND WHO IS THIS LINDA BLAIR CHICK?
-

Film - The Exorcist - you must have seen it. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

'The problem with the world is that everyone is a couple of drinks behind' - Humphrey Bogart

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 07:16 PM
Can't you read between the lines Buzz?

If you do, you might be able to interpret this poll also as a plea to change the panning capability for ALL, not just for trackIR users only.

BuzzU wrote:
- I think this is a losing battle. Instead of
- restricting TrackIR users to the latest drivers. You
- should be asking OLeg to make the 180 view available
- for mouse view. Then everybody is on equal ground,
- and no so called cheating. The cockpit view is more
- restrictive than real life. Why not let us see 180
- behind. Make us all Linda Blair!


/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 07:19 PM
It doesnt matter to me..... As long as their planes will still go down in flames.



<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

<CENTER><FONT COLOR="ORANGE">vflyer@comcast.net<FONT COLOR>
<Center><div style="width:200;color:red;font-size:18pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=red,strength=8)">99th Pursuit Squadron

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 07:19 PM
Hey, just checked it out...that's kind of cool actually. So they "cheat" debate is that someone can look 180 degrees behind them, and that in no cockpit mode that would be an unfair advantage? Not sure how that would work as you would still have to be looking at the screen...or does it play with the movement sensitivity to go into a greater pan? Is this thing easy to get use to? Looks somewhat awkward.

Z

http://sc.groups.msn.com/tn/83/C1/BeowolffsRoninLair/5/49.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 07:22 PM
Dnmy,

Why read between the lines? Just ask for what you really want. I promise you, Oleg won't read between the lines../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.... Adolf Galland
<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/hartm1-2.jpg



Message Edited on 06/22/0312:08PM by BuzzU

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 07:34 PM
skinStick wrote:
-
- Dunkelgrun wrote:
--
-- Why non-TrackIR users only? What's the point? Who's
-- going to say yes? Jeez.
--
-
-
- That IS the point. The trackIR website is filled
- with TIR users. DNMY wants to sample the other side
- now(the non-users). Get it?

Exactly skinStick! He didn't get the point, but you sure did! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

The poll from Naturalpoint is no different than for example Nvidia asking on their Nvidia forums to Nvidia card owners if they want a (hypothetical) setting which would give Nvidia card owners the exclusive right to translucent cockpits in FB.

Well, guess what? i can put up a poll similar to that as well. You know, one where i already know the outcome in advance./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 07:41 PM
Dunkelgrun wrote:
- MAD_TOAD wrote:
--
--
-- OH AND WHO IS THIS LINDA BLAIR CHICK?
--
-
- Film - The Exorcist - you must have seen it.



AH thanks Yep saw it long time ago totaly forgot.

<Center>http://www.geocities.com/mad_squadron/index.html
<Center>http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RADeAnwUNsF!xmzi74V7fM0zsNZLrdqP6EJfhM3yD3f!sLEO4 CdvQZqaQWugce7lDgv!bcKdQTASFYHmbE1x5F2s6VkEKqZOH67 8VupJ4y0/Toad's.jpg?dc=4675413127089644669
</a>
<Center>
&lt;script>var YourPicName='http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RgDdAo4Ue9rMgrGRpm67Ij*O8isG1PQXDYqaZ*pZOuenHzj31 K61WxrXQmZKj6P0FGhxrm*4FYgMBI6aoAIC6oqXGW0NPjerG5o II1eYIkg/tranflag.gif?dc=4675417702733748611';var a=document.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src=YourPicName</script>
&lt;script>var a=document.all.tags("table");a[a.length-2].bgColor ="#666600";a[a.length-3].bgColor = "#660000";a[a.length-4].bgColor = "#003300";if(a[a.length-5].innerHTML.indexOf("User Options")!=-1){a[a.length-5].bgColor = "#2B3038";a[a.length-8].bgColor = "#000000";}else{a[a.length-7].bgColor = "#000000";}</script>

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 07:43 PM
DNMY, I usually respect your opinion but allow me to call you on this BS this time. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

a) Even the non-restricted new driver proposition does not exhibit British politics spousal perspectives. I would have voted against it otherwise because the latter is neither plausible nor helpful.

b) If I understood the poll at Naturalpoint correctly, the intention is to allow trackIR the same range of movement as feasible in reality without any artificial restrictions - no stopping at an arbitrarily assigned point that has no basis in fact. We all know we can look straight behind us, maybe not to the extent of LB-view and certainly not for too long or under G-load but you must admit that the FOV in FB is that of a guy in a full bodycast! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

c) I concede that non-trackIR users have the right to ask for a "level-playing field" but honestly don't see what they could stand to gain apart from a greater appreciation of Oleg's handiwork on the cockpit. (wonder-woman view aside, where I feel any discussion of "level-playing field" or plausibility is quite out of place)

d) I appreciate the ability to look back far enough that I can comfortably see out the rear quarter as a plausible and welcome relief from the claustrophobia of a sim's 2D limitations. So much so, I recommend that it be available to anyone (minus direct Linda Blair view with headrest centered - too damned confusing and useless) geeky reflective-dot-mount or sans.

e) Even assuming one can handle looking at his six and tracking a bandit through his fuselage while simultaneously flying defensive BFM, (RBJ's trackIR-universe counterpart?)
I can't see how that rises to the status of a cheat. Pitiful maybe...

f) Now, I'll remind you that, as you said, this is Oleg's responsibility primarily. What Naturalpoint is doing is well within their rights and pretty positive IMO. At the very least it sparked this discussion anew - with the trim matter dead I've been going into withdrawal! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
z) Finally, I apologize for intruding on your non-trackies only poll but I felt that some clarification was necessary. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

<hr width="400">Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and have their
shoes!
http://members.rogers.com/teemaz/sig.jpg (http://www.jagdgeschwader1.com)

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 08:01 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- Dnmy,
-
- Why read between the lines?

Because i meant it that way. Depending on your view on the subject there are more ways to interpret my poll question:

- As a sneer towards the Naturalpoint trackIR poll
- As a sneer towards trackIR users who like the exclusive right to Linda Blair panning capability and couldn't care less if fellow FB players but NON trackIR users don't have the same capability.
- As a plea for equal panning capability for ALL FB players

The objective reader would read the last interpretation. I figured you'd be more objective is all. I guess not /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 08:06 PM
DNMY, if you had a video card that supported 3 monitors and 180 degrees of view, would you want some vendor to decide that they want to screw up how your rig works because someone thinks swiveling your head around is a cheat?

Secondly, have you EVER found tactical advantage from being able to swing your head 360 degrees or any variation thereof? If so, please describe what it was.

TrackIR, if anything has made it harder for me to get kills online. Why? Because padlock is a lot more reliable at tracking invisible bandits than my naked eye and head tracking. Go figure. It's all about realism, not increased kills.





<p align="center"> http://www.1stclassproperties.ca/mr/Spit.jpg
Tongue-tied & twisted,
just an earthbound misfit,
I.
</CENTER>
</p>

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 08:15 PM
Personally, I find TrackIR harder to use than padlock. If it wasn't for servers not using padlock. I would never bother with TrackIR.



Dnmy,

I don't beat around the bush. I say what's on my mind. If you misjudged that in me. Then, yes, you were wrong about me.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.... Adolf Galland
<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/kozedub3.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 08:26 PM
"Not surprisingly, the majority of those trackIR users who voted, seem to be in favour of the extended panning capabilities (Linda Blair view)"


No. it's a surprise for me. I believed these guys bought this piece of equipment to get a more real way of looking outside their cockpits!

Cheers,




Message Edited on 06/22/0307:27PM by CHDT

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 08:30 PM
CHDT wrote:
- "Not surprisingly, the majority of those trackIR
- users who voted, seem to be in favour of the
- extended panning capabilities (Linda Blair view)"
-
-
- No. it's a surprise for me. I believed these guys
- bought this piece of equipment to get a more real
- way of looking outside their cockpits!
-

Here's the voting: 76 votes to date (hardly earth-shattering). 3 to 1 for the Linda Blair view. I am in the minority.

Yup, a surprise to me too.





'The problem with the world is that everyone is a couple of drinks behind' - Humphrey Bogart

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 09:18 PM
Jetbuff,

I usually respect your opinion, but this time i have to call you on your BS /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

re a)
If your talking about the suggested new trackIR software. Which trackIR user can tell for sure? It says the 180 deg panning left/right and 90 degs up/down. That reeks to Linda Blair view to me, as 180 degs is directly behind you. Dead six.

re b)
I guess you didn't understand the poll at Naturalpoint at all. What you mention isn't at all what the poll said on the Naturalpoint forums. No so called realism arguments were given by Naturalpoint as to the reason why they wanted trackIR users to vote on view restrictions. They just wanted to put the issue to rest once and for all. Never mind realism issues. To a company like Naturalpoint these issues are irrelevant otherwise they'd never have released their 1st enhanced but bugged software.

Furthermore if there's been anyone rooting for wider field of views in FB, it's gotta be me. I personally asked Oleg about widening field of views in a pre chat session (Tully might confirm that) But i was told it was not possible with current cockpits. So case closed. In any case extended panning capability in itself has nothing to do with widening the field of view. Your field of view is only dependant on the zoom factor. Here it's the panning angles which are the subject of debate.

re c)
I guess you haven't explored the Linda Blair view possibilities to the fullest yet. Or you forgot what the restricted views offer in comparison. Besides, what not many people know, the cockpit in its full glory can be completely viewed even with restricted views. If you don't see what non trackIR users would stand to gain with the extended panning capability, then in turn could say i don't see what you would stand to lose without the extended panning capability.

re d)
Me too.

BTW where did i mention that i don't appreciate the Linda Blair view? Furthermore, 2 trackIR users are not alike. Just so you know, i hardly ever (read never) experience any disorientation problems with trackIR. Regardless of what the direction is i'm looking, regardless, cockpit, no cockpit, doesn't matter to me, so a Linda Blair view would hardly pose any disorientation problems whatsoever for me even if i'd be forced to fly like that for prolonged periods of time. Just so you know that some trackIR users can use the Linda Blair ability and be completely comfy with it. No confusion and very useful.

re e)
I never called dogfighting with trackIR while admiring the view the Linda Blair way a cheat.

re f)
What Naturalpoint is doing with the way they worded the poll is completely uncalled for. To put it bluntly, they ask trackIR users whether Naturalpoint should change the view restrictions in FB yes or no?
I ask you where did they get the right to change the viewing restrictions in FB? Mind you, they mentioned FB specifically in the poll. Not some other sim, not LOMAC, not Mig Alley, not BoB, not Falcon4, not Operation Flashpoint, not Strikefighters, no they referred to FB in particular.
But doesn't Oleg have a say in this matter? Isn't he the one who calls the shots where it concerns viewing restrictions?

As far as i know, the only one who SHOULD make decisions to change the viewing restrictions is Oleg Maddox. Not you, not me, not Naturalpoint. So Naturalpoint is simply way out of line if they did this without Oleg's consent or knowledge.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 09:33 PM
So what your saying is they're invulnerable when they see you from behind? Yeah right, you go on and fly while looking back at me, enjoy the sight of lead flying on target, looks pretty don't it.

So what good will it do you? You still got to out fly a guy off your six. You really going to get that done looking backwards. This is funny. Whats the matter, not easy enough to shoot the noobs down?

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 09:52 PM
Obviously you can't read.

I'm not gonna explain it to you as you seem to be incapable to comprehend anyway. bye /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

BfHeFwMe wrote:
- So what your saying is they're invulnerable when
- they see you from behind? Yeah right, you go on and
- fly while looking back at me, enjoy the sight of
- lead flying on target, looks pretty don't it.
-
- So what good will it do you? You still got to out
- fly a guy off your six. You really going to get
- that done looking backwards. This is funny. Whats
- the matter, not easy enough to shoot the noobs down?


/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 09:55 PM
Dnmy,

I've seen enough of your tracks to know you shouldn't have a problem with any other pilot. I don't know why your even bothering with this.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.... Adolf Galland
<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/kozedub3.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 09:57 PM
Oh, I get it, the ole chip on the shoulder. Someone burn you in a tourney with a trackIR?

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 10:49 PM
How about changing the mouse view to full 360?

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 11:16 PM
Buzz,

I gotta be one of the oldest and biggest trackIR fans around here. I already used it long before you even became famous on these boards /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

But what Naturalpoint did with their poll is simply unheard of. Sure they have the right to adapt their software, but they got no right to change the FB viewing restrictions on their own account by simply relying on what some of their customers want.

I'd be all in favour of Linda Blair panning ability if Oleg OK-ed it and made it available to trackIR and NON trackIR FB players alike.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 11:22 PM
Dnmy wrote:
- Buzz,
-
- I gotta be one of the oldest and biggest trackIR
- fans around here. I already used it long before you
- even became famous on these boards /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-
- But what Naturalpoint did with their poll is simply
- unheard of. Sure they have the right to adapt their
- software, but they got no right to change the FB
- viewing restrictions on their own account by simply
- relying on what some of their customers want.
-
- I'd be all in favour of Linda Blair panning ability
- if Oleg OK-ed it and made it available to trackIR
- and NON trackIR FB players alike.

Thanks for advocating a leveling playing field for the WHOLE FB community...that used to be what we were all about. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

~S~



<CENTER>http://home1.gte.net/vze23gyt/files/p51_jaws.jpg</CENTER><FONT color="#59626B">[b]

XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 11:25 PM
I'm not famous. I have one PM ing right now telling me just that../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I don't understand why NP put the 180 view in, then took it out, and now want to put it back again. Why didn't they just leave it to begin with?

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.... Adolf Galland
<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/rall4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 12:25 AM
Dunno Buzz, it makes absolutely no sense to me.

But then again i approach this whole thing as a combat flightsimmer. That's what i am on these boards first and foremost.

I don't belong to a company that is trying to make money looking for areas beyond the flightsim market (e.g. 1st person shooters etc.)

BTW thx Taz /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
BuzzU wrote:
- I'm not famous. I have one PM ing right now telling
- me just that
- I don't understand why NP put the 180 view in,
- then took it out, and now want to put it back again.
- Why didn't they just leave it to begin with?

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 12:30 AM
I might be wrong, but I remember them saying the 180 view in IL2/FB was not planned. It was put in for playability for other games. Maybe FPS games, i'm not sure. He didn't want to take it out, because it would screw up how it worked overall. That's why I was surprised when I saw it taken out.

Just for the record. I don't use the 180 view. I like the newer drivers better. If he comes out with newer drivers that use the 180 view, then that will be different.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.... Adolf Galland
<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/rall4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 12:42 AM
Stange

When I fly the cessna at the local aeero club, I find if I look back over my shoulder (twisting my torso just slightly) I can see the tail when I check the elevator response to controls in the preflight. I do the same thing to conform runway tracking on takeoff if there is a crosswind.


hmmm .. never realised I had supernatural abilities before

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 01:15 AM
Dnmy wrote:
- Dunno Buzz, it makes absolutely no sense to me.
-
- But then again i approach this whole thing as a
- combat flightsimmer. That's what i am on these
- boards first and foremost.
-
- I don't belong to a company that is trying to make
- money looking for areas beyond the flightsim market
- (e.g. 1st person shooters etc.)
-
- BTW thx Taz /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
- BuzzU wrote:
-- I'm not famous. I have one PM ing right now telling
-- me just that
-- I don't understand why NP put the 180 view in,
-- then took it out, and now want to put it back again.
-- Why didn't they just leave it to begin with?
-
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


LoL, aparently not. Seems you were a natural pointer beta tester. think I smell a rat.



http://oldsite.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=98;t=001447

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 01:30 AM
thomasbernie wrote:
- How about changing the mouse view to full 360?
-
-

It virtually is already.

You can definitely see your tail fin when looking behind in mouse view, though I suspect it is more like a 160-170 degree rear view - not quite 180 but so close it doesnt matter

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 01:34 AM
this thread is crazy , from reading many combat related stories over the years , pilots would swivel there whole bodies or as much as they could to see there six , can anybody honestly tell me that in real life you would not twist in your seat if you had a bandit on your tail trying to kill you , i have not tried tir yet but as was said earlier in a lot of cockpits you cant actually see your direct six and as i said earlier tir simulates head movement so to me it only enhances flight simming so im assuming that those who are against it cant afford it .real fighter pilots have one hand on there stick and one on there throttle so if we are trying to simulate real flight why cant we ,move on get over it or go buy it , better yet go fly the damn sim instead of wasting time on things like this , the end story is "IT SIMULATES REAL HEAD MOVEMENT , NOT ONLY DO YOU TWIST YOUR HEAD IN A COMBAT SITUATION YOU TWIST AS MUCH OF YOUR BODY AS POSSIBLE TO SEE YOUR SIX"
now im going out to buy tir because it enhances my flight simming by giving me hands free sight as i do not have a hand on my head turning it in real life
S!

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 04:49 AM
I appreciate your concern.

But this thread is not about what is realistic or not. This thread is about what view restrictions are available to trackIR users, and what view restrictions are available to the NON trackIR users.

You as a NON trackIR user prolly don't realize yet the full impact of a straight dead six, Linda Blair view. That's ok, i as one of the most experienced trackIR users on these boards, i fully realize what those capabilities are, opposed to what the NON trackIR user gets.

I am in favour of the SAME viewing restrictions for NON trackIR users and trackIR users alike. Nothing more, nothing less for ALL. No exceptions. Everybody is equal, except it seems trackIR users are more equal than the non trackIR users.



/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 04:50 AM
OK, now you've lost me DNMY, you pretty much concurred with most of my arguments so what was the sticking point again? I am really at a loss at defining your exact position on the matter.


OK, best I can make is that you:

a) Would like almost Linda Blair like view in the horizontal (up to say 170? or so) for everyone, regardless of trackIR. Agreed 100%.

b) Think that this is primarily Oleg's responsibility - his call. Once more, no argument from me.

c) Are somehow offended (inordinately so, I might add /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif ) by NaturalPoint's poll effort because you somehow view it as treading on Oleg's toes/promotion of unfair play. (trying to avoid the "cheat" moniker since you have distanced yourself from that)


If so, then that last part is where we part company. I am far more miffed by the accusations of cheating and unfair play being bandied about by non-trackies over what is essentially a hardware choice.


I don't see NaturalPoint's efforts as that much of a transgression, nor do I think it warrants this public lynching. They're just trying to please their customers - remind you of someone else? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Good business sense I say.



PS: being able to look almost directly back just feels more natural and "real" to me than stopping at about 150? or so like it is set up for pan views. I don't think being able to look that far back is an advantage in the competitive sense just another immersion perk - still think that it should be available to all though coz it looks and feels nice.

PPS: can't get how you can stand full 180?? I almost puke if I get stuck there. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

<hr width="400">Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and have their
shoes!
http://members.rogers.com/teemaz/sig.jpg (http://www.jagdgeschwader1.com)

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 12:35 PM
OK just my 2 cents....

I think the old drivers with their 360/Linda Blair view offer key advantages over the new drivers. The pressure is on Oleg (IMHO) to modify the *.dll file to stop this happening.

The 'Advantage' is most apparent when using ZOOM. With normal mouse views you can almost check 6, but not dead 6. When you then zoom in your view is further restricted.

With TrackIR you can zoom in fully and still check 'dead 6'. This would allow you to roll inverted, zoom in and check out the bandit 2KM below you and ID him easier than a 'normal' view system.

If you can't see the advantage in this then I think you are all missing the point /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Just to add, my post was similar to Jetbuffs - I think we should all have this view /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

JG5_UnKle

"Know and use all the capabilities of your airplane. If you don't sooner or later, somebody who does, will kick your ***"


http://homepage.ntlworld.com/victoria.stevens/jg5_logo.jpg

Message Edited on 06/23/0312:48PM by JG5_UnKle

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 02:17 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen.

I understand what Dnmy is saying, he just wants a level playing field for all, regardless of whether you are a track-ir user or not, regardless of whether the range of panning is 180 degrees 170 degrees or 90.

If I read correctly, then the issue of realism is not what he was debating in his original post, merely the issue of consistency. A laudable, if not easily attainable goal.

We seem to think that rudder pedals are OK - they afford much finer control than mouse and keyboard.

We seem to think that trim on a slider is OK - it offers better control over trim-tab position. Note I am not commenting on bat turns or *any other supposed misuse of trim* but I can say from experience that trimming the plane for level flight is easier using a rotary than a mouse and keyboard.

We seem to think that using a joystick is OK - try flying without it and watch your kill rate drop faster than Monica Lewinsky's social engagements.

My point is that the difference such a trifle will make is so small, so insignificant and the circumstances under which it *can* make a difference are so limited that expending this much energy on the debate not only creates divsions where there should be none, but also wastes valuable flying time. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

For the record I use and adore TrackIR. Also, for the record I care not whether I have full 720 degree Blairite head spinning, 180 degree "straight six" or 170 degree mouselook equivalent. I care not whether my view is more or less restricted than that of mouselook to the degree we are discussing. I will continue to use my TrackIR and will continue to enjoy the increased immersiveness it provides.

Should we have a level playing field for all? If that will keep the majority of users happy, then by all means go for it, but since "only 5%" of users fly online (that figure can be the subject of another debate if you like) I can't see it being high on the list of issues to fix from the perspective of Maddox/Ubi.


Now, on one final note, if you are playing on a server with padlock on and external views enabled, then any discussion about what is possible anatomically is rendered moot.


&lt;embed src="http://www.redhalibut.co.uk/webs/RedHalibut/images/flysig020503ii.swf" loop=true menu=false quality=high wmode=transparent bgcolor=#030303 WIDTH=400 HEIGHT=32 TYPE="application/x-shockwave-flash"></EMBED>

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 02:26 PM
Don't see what's wrong with looking back as far as the in-game stops allow and kicking the rudder to clear the blindspot myself.

And it's not as if you're going to be able to swivel round in your seat in a high-G blackout turn to check your six in real life so I think the current restrictions are a perfectly good compromise.

Either that or some sort of attitude/G-related view restrictor but that would be entirely new.

I'd be quite happy if Oleg hardcoded the view restrictions as they currently appear for everyone using mouselook or the proper 2.01 TrackIR drivers.

SSS

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 02:49 PM
Jetbuff,

Misunderstandings occur when people only read what they wanna read /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

What they wanna read is not nescessarily what is written. I do nothing but object to the fact that Naturalpoint is seemingly acting on their own account, relying on the opinions of some of their customers to change the viewing restrictions in FB. I mean come on! the viewing restrictions as intended by Oleg were INTENTIONALLY put into the game. Just like the 190's forward view was intentionally modelled the way it is. A lot of people may not like it, and say it's not realistic. But i simply won't go that way.

I never ever raised the issues of realism considerations/arguments in this, or any other related thread. Realism arguments are simply a source of endless debate. I merely notice that 3rd party software/hardware companies, apparantly have the right to change the way FB works (for their customers only!). And i point that out. But that is easily forgotten by the ones who have their own personal agenda.

And that is what i object to. Only Oleg has the right to change the viewing restrictions in FB and i see no evidence that he allowed Naturalpoint to act on their own account to change the viewing restrictions in FB (for trackIR users only). I know he considered the stupid panning ability an unfortunate mistake, and Naturalpoint even recommends to use only their latest software.

Furthermore, Naturalpoint should be very thankful that enhanced support was put into the game by Oleg at all. At Maddox games they don't even use trackIR. Oleg's the one who allowed for enhanced support, and it now looks like Naturalpoint is simply taking advantage of that, to please some of their customers. To me that's just plain wrong.

If Naturalpoint wants to do it the correct way, they should be appealing to Oleg to allow ALL FB players the Linda Blair panning ability first. If they manage to persuade Oleg, then they can change the viewing restrictions for their software in FB. Simply a matter of principle, common courtesy and respect.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 05:07 PM
I still think it's the dll's job as produced by Oleg to enforce any restrictions to FOV in FB. In fact, I'm surprised NaturalPoint even bothered to artificially restrict their FOV just for FB in the first place. If nothing else, that alone should indicate how closely the two are working together. IIRC, when the bug was first reported Oleg had said that he did not have time to address this right away and that NaturalPoint would be implementing a fix.

All I'm saying is that you're reading far too much into this. Yes, the view should be fair and yes Oleg should be the ultimate judge/implementer of this but neither is Naturalpoint required to design their software specifically for FB. All they have to do is keep to their design specifications (read the software used for dll integration testing originally) and they cannot be faulted. Instead, they've gone to the next level and tried to address the concerns about Linda Blair view while keeping the interests of their customers in mind.


I'd just like to say that paranoia is a terrible thing, just remember trim.

<hr width="400">Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and have their
shoes!
http://members.rogers.com/teemaz/sig.jpg (http://www.jagdgeschwader1.com)

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 07:00 PM
Taking my life into my hands, I thought I'd offer NaturalPoint's perspective on all this. First, some useful points:

1) We work very closely with all of our developer partners, including Oleg

2) The Poll is not the definitive last word on this, merely a tool to catch the pulse of our users

3) No final decision will be made without speaking directly with Oleg

4) I can't speak for the rest of the company, but I love to play IL-2 FB.

As has been recapped on many threads across many bulletin boards, version 2.0 had an unlocked view system on the trackIR. Beyond the issue of about 8 degrees (yes, that is the difference) this system had the side effect of letting the view spin around *several times* creating extremely unnatural and, frankly, sickening movement. After discussions with Oleg, we decided to fix the problem on our end and let him focus on other things. We just wanted to speed things up for our users.

However, a funny thing happened on the way to the cockpit- the majority of users (I think the poll shows this) preferred the ability too look straight back. It seems that most of our users' time is spent off-line, and they prefer the advantage that it gives them.

What we are doing right now is gathering information, which will aid us in any discussions with Oleg. That's all. We want what's best for our users. Now you can't please everybody, but we're just looking for the solution that pleases the most, which we haven't found yet.


I hope this helps clear up some of the issues, and shoots a bit of a tranquilizer into the discussion.


Halstead York
Dir. Gaming Products
NaturalPoint
halstead@naturalpoint.com

Message Edited on 06/23/03 11:03AM by Halsteady

Message Edited on 06/23/0311:26AM by Halsteady

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 07:22 PM
Thankyou for your response Halstead, a brave man indeed stepping into this forum with anything approaching facts!

Love your product, btw /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

(A contented 2.01 Final user)

SSS

PS - Just how many TrackIR units do you think FB has been responsible for shipping? Until the FPS world gets its act together, presumably flight sims like FB and the forthcoming Lock On are the chief motivators behind purchases of the gaming product...?



Message Edited on 06/23/0306:25PM by SpinSpinSugar

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 07:31 PM
Halstead, thanks for popping in. I'm a fan of 2.01b if only because I would rather have Oleg fix it than another company.

8 degrees, eh? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Too funny.

That said, I LOVE your product and I think this community should get a big commission from you guys for all the users we've recommended through our various discussions of how great trackIR is. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Regards,
Dex

<p align="center"> http://www.1stclassproperties.ca/mr/Spit.jpg
Tongue-tied & twisted,
just an earthbound misfit,
I.
</CENTER>
</p>

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 07:32 PM
Dnmy wrote:
- Buzz,
-
- I gotta be one of the oldest and biggest trackIR
- fans around here. I already used it long before you
- even became famous on these boards /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-
- But what Naturalpoint did with their poll is simply
- unheard of. Sure they have the right to adapt their
- software, but they got no right to change the FB
- viewing restrictions on their own account by simply
- relying on what some of their customers want.
-
- I'd be all in favour of Linda Blair panning ability
- if Oleg OK-ed it and made it available to trackIR
- and NON trackIR FB players alike.
-


Hey, maybe you need to read your own arguement Dnmy (or, everyone else needs to?).

The way I have this figured, you are arguing for LB-view, not against.

Oleg did allow for the view. Like you said, the poll is pointed directly at FB and not other games. So the TIR people decided to over-rule Olegs programing and put thier own hard-limits on the device.

In short: Oleg allowed the view to exist, but naturalpoint took it away because they thought they were acting in the users' best interest. I think they should leave things alone, since Oleg should indeed be the one controlling things.



<font face="Courier New">
&nbspBaldieJr
_____ | _____
_\__(o)__/_
./ \.
Whiners don't play vulchers
(er, winners)
</font>

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 07:40 PM
One other point...

There is a piece of software floating around that allows a joysticks' hat-switch to be mapped as a TIR (meaning: the hat-switch talks to FB through the TIR software-port). Does this have hard-limits to keep these people from looking deadsix with zoom? I doubt it.

I also doubt anyone using it will speak up. If I could remember the link, I'd test this myself.


<font face="Courier New">
&nbspBaldieJr
_____ | _____
_\__(o)__/_
./ \.
Whiners don't play vulchers
(er, winners)
</font>

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 07:51 PM
BaldieJr wrote:
- Oleg did allow for the view. Like you said, the poll
- is pointed directly at FB and not other games. So
- the TIR people decided to over-rule Olegs programing
- and put thier own hard-limits on the device.
-
- In short: Oleg allowed the view to exist, but
- naturalpoint took it away because they thought they
- were acting in the users' best interest. I think
- they should leave things alone, since Oleg should
- indeed be the one controlling things.

Baldie-
I'm afraid that your facts are not entirely accurate. We implemented the view restrictions working *with* Oleg. Please read my earlier post.


Halstead York
Dir. Gaming Products
NaturalPoint
halstead@naturalpoint.com

Message Edited on 06/23/0311:53AM by Halsteady

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 07:52 PM
Thx for informing us, Halstead, but really it would have been much better had this info been included with the poll.

I'm really glad it's Oleg who has the final say on this.

And BaldieJR,

have you not read what Halstead wrote? About Naturalpoint offering to Oleg to fix their bugged software themselves as a temporary solution, relieving Oleg from the task to fix it, so he could work on other things? Oleg allowed enhanced support in FB and he allowed Naturalpoint to fix their own bugged software, to include the original viewing restrictions

And about my arguments, there's basically only 3 points that i've been arguing all along:

1. Oleg be the one and only to have the final say
2. All FB players should have the same viewing restrictions.
3. I like Linda Blair view just as much as the next trackIR user. But point 3 takes a backstep to 1 and 2.


/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 07:54 PM
All wasted words, none of us know whats already been patched. Is it really worth all the slinging with little more than a week.

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 08:03 PM
There still seems to be a bit bit of confusion. Here a snip from a post I made on our forums right after we released 2.01

- I think it might help to understand that Oleg considered
- it a bug that he missed- bottom line for him is that
- it's just not realistic.
-
- We just helped him get out a fix quicker than he could
- have.
-
- Like it or hate it, we feel that we should respect
- developers as the 'auteur' of their software. As such,
- we do what we can to help that.

As I mentioned earlier, right now we're collecting information that we will then bring to Oleg. We'd much rather have him provide a final fix, as nothing we can do will ever be concidered definitive by users

Halstead York
Dir. Gaming Products
NaturalPoint
halstead@naturalpoint.com

Message Edited on 06/23/0312:05PM by Halsteady

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 08:04 PM
Hey, dnmy, I'm the next TrackIR user and I don't like the Linda Blair view!

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

SSS

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 03:18 AM
This is ludicrous, insecure babies who can't fly very well have to blame the inadequacies on someone or something.
I don't have track IR, but one need not be a genious to figure out that those that use it cannot see any better than those who use their mouse or keypad keys. If anything, it would be far more realistic to use it than having to use one of your hands to move your mouse, or to press a key.
Hell, I may even get track IR myself, cause I want to use my hands for more important duties like actually flying the goddam plane, or using my throttle. Obviously, in real life when you fly a plane you can crane your neck around to look to the side or backwards. I do it all the time in the 172 I rent to see if I maintain the runway center line very well in cross winds during departure. Of course I can't do that in the Piper Cherokee 180 I fly. I'm trying to get better at crabbing into the wind and maintain a good track. Because some ground observers say I suck at it.

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 04:04 AM
Do you think it would be fun to have a girlfriend like Linda Blair? Mmmmmm, Linda Blair /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

This topic just cracks me up now. If I go and start a thread entitled "anyone without trackIR is cheating" we'll be discussing that for another two weeks. It's just hilarious.





<p align="center"> http://www.1stclassproperties.ca/mr/Spit.jpg
Tongue-tied & twisted,
just an earthbound misfit,
I.
</CENTER>
</p>

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 04:23 AM
<center>
http://home.attbi.com/~argylestransom/Pics/LindBlair.jpg
Linda Blair
Still looking good after all these years.

Wonder if her head still spins around?

</center>

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Bun-Bun



<center>
http://home.attbi.com/~argylestransom/Pics/p-39Q.jpg


</center>

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 05:20 AM
All depends on which side your squad flys./i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif If it's blue you want the views nixed for sure.