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buggggggged
04-16-2004, 03:03 PM
it was one bad plane, I saw one fly, at the Kalamazoo air zoo in Kalamazoo michigan. they have all of the cat planes, flyable! Tiger cat, bearcat, hell cat, wildcat. the bearcat is like a corvette amongst stationwagons. me want.

buggggggged
04-16-2004, 03:03 PM
it was one bad plane, I saw one fly, at the Kalamazoo air zoo in Kalamazoo michigan. they have all of the cat planes, flyable! Tiger cat, bearcat, hell cat, wildcat. the bearcat is like a corvette amongst stationwagons. me want.

sugaki
04-16-2004, 03:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>the bearcat is like a corvette amongst stationwagons. me want.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The argument isn't "The Bearcat sucks, don't include it," or "The Bearcat is ugly!" (else we'd have to get rid of Buffalo, Wildcat and Corsair, heheh).

It's a nice plane, it did head for Japan, it did fly during the war. But it never saw combat, didn't go out in time to engage Japanese forces. So it doesn't make sense to have Japanese planes face it in the air. Bring the Reppu, and duke it out in an expansion.

Seems like every single thread's turning into a '46/Bearcat thread. Too many http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-Aki

VF-3Thunderboy
04-16-2004, 07:44 PM
Well then, WE can write the "Bearcat" history, had the Germans killed off some of the A-(bomb)team!Put the Nasty thing IN!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

WUAF_Badsight
04-16-2004, 09:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sugaki:

So it doesn't make sense to have Japanese planes face it in the air.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ummm why not ?

since when did Computer games have to be restricted to what actually happened

isnt the whole idea of computer games to play out what you can imagine ?

they are arnt they

Maj_Death
04-16-2004, 11:18 PM
The problem is this is supposed to be a realistic simulator, not some aireal arcade shooting game.

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fordfan25
04-16-2004, 11:25 PM
just couse the options thayr doesnt mean you have to use it.but if thay do include it it would prob be best to wait to add it in a patch so thay can get the main stuff out first

Maj_Death
04-17-2004, 11:26 AM
If they could stick in as many planes as they wanted without raising the price too much and increasing the time it would take to release it, I would say stick everything up until Korea in it. The problem is it doesn't work that way. They can only stick in 40-50 planes in the initial release. There are more than 40-50 mainstream, combat tested, vitally important aircraft in the Pacific theatre. The Bearcat is not one of them. If the Bearcat is included then that is one less real WW2 plane that can be included.

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Bearcat99
04-17-2004, 05:27 PM
So including planes that didnt see combat turns this into a arcade shootem up? I dont think so. The only thing that can do that is the players and the settings they choose which opens up a whole nothe debate. Who says we have to only have planes that flew in combat? This is such an idiotic debate it boggles the mind. You would think that in a sim this good guys would be willing to accept whatever we could get from 1C KNOWING that all the FMs will be consistant and that they will be top notch..but no..... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

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WUAF_Badsight
04-17-2004, 05:40 PM
the fact that the Bearcat had such incredible performance & that FB is the premier combat flight sim is why i really want to see the Bearcat

i play online 95% of the time

combat performance is more important to my kind of player than being able to re-create history

i dont think that the most used planes should be sacrificed to include the fringe late war A/C

but saying that they dont belong is rubbish

Maj_Death
04-17-2004, 07:10 PM
Ok you can have your bearcat then but which plane do you want to drop to make room for it. I say we remove the B-17 in favor of the F8F Bearcat http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif.

Oh, you want to keep the B-17. Ok then Oleg can cut the P-51D20 instead.

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WUAF_Badsight
04-17-2004, 08:27 PM
are you just a dork ?

where have you read that the most used planes should be excluded so we all can fly the Bearcat ?

Maj_Death
04-18-2004, 12:33 AM
No where, but you are asking for the Bearcat and only 40-50 planes can be included. And so some important plane such as the P-51 would have to be cut in order to include it. Although in reality I think a more likely plane to cut would be an unpopular plane such as the P-40 or P-47.

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Resident_Jock
04-18-2004, 02:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maj_Death:
No where, but you are asking for the Bearcat and only 40-50 planes can be included. And so some important plane such as the P-51 would have to be cut in order to include it. Although in reality I think a more likely plane to cut would be an unpopular plane such as the P-40 or P-47.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Now you're just being rediculous. If anything, those planes are shoe-ins because they are already modeled for FB and AEP. Not only that but 1C has put in plenty of planes that never flew into their games. Mig3u? Bf109Z? Go229? Correct me if I'm wrong but none of those saw any action. Does that make the sturmovik series any less of a game? No, of course not. Any variety is good variety... if you don't like the Bearcat then don't play with it and avoid servers that use it.

Besides, would you get all teary eyed if they decided to replace, say, the Vindicator with the Bearcat?

F19_Olli72
04-18-2004, 04:33 AM
Bleh i can see this Bearcat whining reaching 'Fw190 veiw" proportions soon. Why is Maj_Death redicilous? He's correct to that point. Were not talking about 3d party development here, so the old argument 'dont like it, dont fly it' isnt as valid. Modelling the Bearcat would draw resources from another plane (wich propably saw action). And finally Resident_Jock, your assuming everyone wants some überplane instead of a lesser known or 'crapplane'. You couldnt be more wrong. I'd pick the Vindicator over the Bearcat every time http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

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Maj_Death
04-18-2004, 11:17 AM
You are right that the P-40 and P-47 would not be cut, that is why I said an unpopular plane *like* the P-40 or P-47. If I had to guess which one would be cut it would be an F3F, Ki-43 or something of that nature. And BTW the Bf-109Z and Mig-3U do take away from the game. A Pe-2/3 or Me-210/410 could have been created instead. Those are far more relevent planes to the eastern front and probebly would have been reasonably popular too. I restrict both the 109Z and Mig-3U in my DF maps, but I can't add in the Me-210/410 or Pe-2/3. Only 1C:Maddox can do that and they chose to add the damn 109Z and Mig-3U instead. By asking for the Bearcat you are asking them to repeat this. If you want the Bearcat then ask some of the third party modelers to do it because I and many others would prefer for the official development team to make planes that actually fought in WW2. And WW2 is what the sim is supposed to be about. It isn't Secret Weapons of the USN, USAAF or IJN. Nor is it a Korean war sim as some people here seem to think.

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Maj_Death here, Stab.I/JG1Death at HL

I build COOPs and DF maps. If you would like some of them you can get them atmy COOP page (http://www14.brinkster.com/triggerhappy770/default.htm)

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BlitzPig_DDT
04-18-2004, 11:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maj_Death:
You are right that the P-40 and P-47 would not be cut, that is why I said an unpopular plane *like* the P-40 or P-47. If I had to guess which one would be cut it would be an F3F, Ki-43 or something of that nature. And BTW the Bf-109Z and Mig-3U do take away from the game. A Pe-2/3 or Me-210/410 could have been created instead. Those are far more relevent planes to the eastern front and probebly would have been reasonably popular too. I restrict both the 109Z and Mig-3U in my DF maps, but I can't add in the Me-210/410 or Pe-2/3. Only 1C:Maddox can do that and they chose to add the damn 109Z and Mig-3U instead. By asking for the Bearcat you are asking them to repeat this. If you want the Bearcat then ask some of the third party modelers to do it because I and many others would prefer for the official development team to make planes that actually fought in WW2. And WW2 is what the sim is supposed to be about. It isn't Secret Weapons of the USN, USAAF or IJN. Nor is it a Korean war sim as some people here seem to think.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nor are you the arbiter of "fun", or what "takes away" from this game, as you seem to think.

You need to get a life man, seriously.

The F3F would be cool to have, just for it's uniqueness, and Grumman-ness. Howver, what sets this "sim" apart from all that came before it is one thing. It's not eye candy. It's not bogus FMs that screw over E-fighters. It's not laggy netcode. It's not it's look and feel. It's not even it's eastern front focus. Quite simply, it's the inclusion of very unique planes, not the same old trite BS that's been rehashed a million times over, which you are calling for again. It's the oddball VVS planes that virtually nobody in the west (the states in particular) had heard of before IL2, it's the Bi-1, it's the Gound Gun 262, the 162, the 229, the 109Z, the I-185, the P-11, etc, etc. Well, that coupled with everything else (the eye-candy, the borked FMs, the laggy netcode, etc).

Only someone with no imagination, or someone with an active dislike of American planes, could be against the inclusion of the F8F-1. Even if it meant the deletion of 1 other plane.

It's not like we don't get patches. Get your boring old, done to death bucket of bolts in a patch. At least you could be assured of getting it then since there are so many of you. You're like lemmings.

However, this is the problem with this super-secret closed FM. (I know, I know, none of you guys understand computer security enough to realize, understand, or accept that it can be open and still free from cheaters in much the same sense as it can be closed and still have cheaters. No need to go over all that again. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif )

Regardless, you need to get off your soapbox, at the very least, and stop trying to speak for the rest of us, those that want something different, by claiming what is "good for" or "detracts from" the sim. It is your opinion, and nothing more. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif


BTW - wasn't it stated that the planes here and in FB were to be fully cross compatible? Something about being able to take PF planes to Europe and vice versa? If so, how could the P-40 or P-47 or any other plane here already be "dropped"? (unless you are talking about the P-47N, we already know that we won't get an M because it would be too powerful)

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MPortus
04-18-2004, 01:14 PM
What's so difficult to understand about M Death's point?

Time and resources are limited, so better spend them in relevant planes than in planes that didn't saw combat. Remember this sim is about PTO in WWII, so should be recommendable to have PTO WWII aircraft in it.

Bobsqueek
04-18-2004, 01:58 PM
It can be saved for 3rd party or a patch or something

more important planes have to be included

then you can add the fantasy stuffs

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Copperhead310th
04-18-2004, 02:27 PM
well we're going to the PTO.
So right off the bat lets drop all of the german Crap & the Russain planes right off the top. The 109Z is cool. it's unique...but has the MOST FICIONAL flight model of any aircraft in the sim. the 1st time i flew it i was like [i]"WTF?! did the swap the fm's for the p-38's for the 109Z fm? there NO WAY that plane could have been better than a p-38! Hell it never got off the drawing board. It' Just Oleg catering to the Luftwhiners Again."[I/]

This is the Pacific. Give us pacific aircraft. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gifJeez. I've been putting up with the UBER FMS/DMS on german planes in this sim for 3 yrs now. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gifI'm getting really sick of it. the US planes always get screwed. I was hoping it would be differant for the PTO. but looks like that's not going to be the case.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif"Wait! look what's that!....it's a BF109z!? but this is the Luzon! what the hell is that doing here!? there arent any kraughts in the pacific!"

Great just great. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

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Copperhead310th
04-18-2004, 02:27 PM
well we're going to the PTO.
So right off the bat lets drop all of the german Crap & the Russain planes right off the top. The 109Z is cool. it's unique...but has the MOST FICIONAL flight model of any aircraft in the sim. the 1st time i flew it i was like [i]"WTF?! did the swap the fm's for the p-38's for the 109Z fm? there NO WAY that plane could have been better than a p-38! Hell it never got off the drawing board. It' Just Oleg catering to the Luftwhiners Again."[I/]

This is the Pacific. Give us pacific aircraft. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gifJeez. I've been putting up with the UBER FMS/DMS on german planes in this sim for 3 yrs now. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gifI'm getting really sick of it. the US planes always get screwed. I was hoping it would be differant for the PTO. but looks like that's not going to be the case.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif"Wait! look what's that!....it's a BF109z!? but this is the Luzon! what the hell is that doing here!? there arent any kraughts in the pacific!"

Great just great. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

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BuzzU
04-18-2004, 02:37 PM
Death doesn't want the Bearcat, because it will rip a new ******** in his Fw190. (providing we can get it into FB)

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F19_Olli72
04-18-2004, 02:52 PM
Or....those who want the Bearcat is too chicken to fly planes that actually had a part in the fighting against the Japanese http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Those arguments are just as silly as DDT's rant about "Only someone with no imagination, or someone with an active dislike of American planes" are against the Bearcat.

Personally i dont have anything against the plane itself, i just much rather have planes that saw action. Of course ppl want their fav plane in, but theres no reason to be a spoilt brat about it. Keep the post constructive instead of attacking everyone with another opinion. Thats when the fanboy completes the path to the dark side and becomes a full fledged whiner.

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BlitzPig_DDT
04-18-2004, 03:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
well we're going to the PTO.
So right off the bat lets drop all of the german Crap & the Russain planes right off the top.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"German crap & Russian planes". That comment really does put the next bit in perspective. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The 109Z is cool. it's unique...but has the MOST FICIONAL flight model of any aircraft in the sim. the 1st time i flew it i was like "WTF?! did the swap the fm's for the p-38's for the 109Z fm? there NO WAY that plane could have been better than a p-38! Hell it never got off the drawing board. It' Just Oleg catering to the Luftwhiners Again."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, from this bit of feces, I can see that you have a problem with LW planes, and those who happen to like them. Not only that, you are un-informed when it comes to the aircraft in question, and have applied absolutely 0 thought to them, or your opinions. Not only that, but you haven't even read the threads where others have already taken the time and effort for you and put it out for the world to see in gray and white (or have, but it went in 1 eye and out the other). http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I've been putting up with the UBER FMS/DMS on german planes in this sim for 3 yrs now. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gifI'm getting really sick of it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

More proof (as if any was needed).


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>the US planes always get screwed.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, at least this is true.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I was hoping it would be differant for the PTO. but looks like that's not going to be the case.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wouldn't hold your breath for a better US representation. This forum has already taken on a pro-IJ flavor to it (if not quite anti-US (speaking of planes, not politics)).


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif"Wait! look what's that!....it's a BF109z!? but this is the Luzon! what the hell is that doing here!? there arent any kraughts in the pacific!"

Great just great. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, it's "kraut", but I was shown a quote, that I believe was from Luthier, that the plane sets were to be full cross compatible. Guess I'll have to try to dig it up.

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BlitzPig_DDT
04-18-2004, 03:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Olli72:
Or....those who want the Bearcat is too chicken to fly planes that actually had a part in the fighting against the Japanese http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Those arguments are just as silly as DDT's rant about "Only someone with no imagination, or someone with an active dislike of American planes" are against the Bearcat.

Personally i dont have anything against the plane itself, i just much rather have planes that saw action. Of course ppl want their fav plane in, but theres no reason to be a spoilt brat about it. Keep the post constructive instead of attacking everyone with another opinion. Thats when the fanboy completes the path to the dark side and becomes a full fledged whiner.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif "Rant". lol Yeah, as if.

A buncha zombies droning on and on "only planes that actually saw combat". Lacking the imagination to have a desire for anything more than we've always had. Lacking the creativity needed to enjoy straying from the written history. It is only natural, however, to not want to see yourself in that light and to rebel against it and deny it.

Human tendency is toward control of others. It's the whole banning mentality, and it's just as present in politics as it is in this "community". And it sucks. Even more so that you can't see it for what it is, because it would require recognizing a bad aspect of yourself.

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BuzzU
04-18-2004, 03:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Olli72:
Or....those who want the Bearcat is too chicken to fly planes that actually had a part in the fighting against the Japanese http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Those arguments are just as silly as DDT's rant about "Only someone with no imagination, or someone with an active dislike of American planes" are against the Bearcat.

Personally i dont have anything against the plane itself, i just much rather have planes that saw action. Of course ppl want their fav plane in, but theres no reason to be a spoilt brat about it. Keep the post constructive instead of attacking everyone with another opinion. Thats when the fanboy completes the path to the dark side and becomes a full fledged whiner.

________________________________________________
http://www.screenshotart.com/ _The_ place for screenshots.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Death happens to be a friend, and I was giving him a dig. Not that I need to explain to a buttinski like you.

btw..I'll always be in the P-51. It's all I fly. Is that ok with you?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buzz
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F19_Olli72
04-18-2004, 03:36 PM
As Ozzy described it, "I feel like a onelegged man in an a**kicking contest. You just cant win". Some ppl are real quick to judge others by the basis of one or two posts. Instead of discussing the topic in a rational way its easier to attack/pick on others (specially when u got your friends/squadmates with ya). Right? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Edit: hmm maybe i phrased my previous post badly, i didnt imply that either of you were spoilt brats. Just the way arguments are made in general. Like the "They just dont want the Bearcat cos they fear it"...i mean comeon!!! Im not afraid for moving pixels on a screen http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Just seems to me that the Bearcat fanclub has a really hard time to accept that theres ppl who thinks other planes are more important. Not because they fear the Bearcat, or that it will 'rip a new one' or whatever. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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[This message was edited by Olli72 on Sun April 18 2004 at 02:48 PM.]

BuzzU
04-18-2004, 03:43 PM
Calling someone chicken usually doesn't get a good responce. I pay no attension to smileys. They are just cover ups to say what you want.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buzz
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F19_Olli72
04-18-2004, 03:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BuzzU:
Calling someone chicken usually doesn't get a good responce. I pay no attension to smileys. They are just cover ups to say what you want.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buzz
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/anderson9.jpg
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And just how is your post different???
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BuzzU:
Death doesn't want the Bearcat, because it will rip a new ******** in his Fw190. (providing we can get it into FB)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buzz
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/anderson9.jpg
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If u dont know what smileys are for then you propably missed the meaning of their use. Its not a 'cover up'. Its to show certain feelings into text that can be hard to show otherwise. Irony for example http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

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BuzzU
04-18-2004, 04:08 PM
I explained the difference http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif See I can use smileys too. I'll do it again for you. It was a dig on a friend. Nobody else on the forum. Including you wise one. Your comment was open to all on the forum who might want to fly the Bearcat. Do you see the difference? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buzz
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/anderson9.jpg

Maj_Death
04-18-2004, 07:27 PM
Wow, there is just no reasoning with some of these people. I guess it is time to start asking for the Su-47 Berkut. Because that is where it is ultamitely heading. After all the Su-47 has flown on a few occasions and therefore is a perfectly good WW2 fighter if the USA and USSR had gone to war and the war stretched on until 10 years from now. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

So here it is, the first request for the Su-47. I want my Su-47 Berkut with R-77's and rearward firing R-73's (the second one is still only a prototype BTW, but still lagit WW2 stuff by our definition). http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Anyone who doesn't want the Su-47 is only scared of it because they suck too badly to kill it with their F8F Bearcat. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

Edit: Yes I have sunk to their level but like the old saying goes, "if you can't beat'em, join'em."

Edited again because I'm a little off at the moment: Buzz, I mostly fly the Bf-110 and He-111 these days. I fear no one in any plane cause I am uber sniper gunner. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maj_Death here, Stab.I/JG1Death at HL

I build COOPs and DF maps. If you would like some of them you can get them atmy COOP page (http://www14.brinkster.com/triggerhappy770/default.htm)

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Alyssa1127
04-18-2004, 08:27 PM
Isn't the whole point of combat sims to appeal to the masses who love them (and we do, don't we? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif)?

That said, you have two basic types:

1. The Hypothetical-types (aka - 'what if')
2. The Downright-purists (aka - point-blank 'was')

Me, I'm a purist, but that doesn't mean that I want to take away the fun of the 'let's see how a never-flew-in-combat Gotha matches up against the Shooting Star'.

Okay... that was my 5 minutes on the stupid soapbox. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Oh... and as to the intial subject matter - why not? it'll be entertaining to watch the Zero I'm flying get chewed to pieces by the Bearcat

Alyssa

BlitzPig_DDT
04-18-2004, 08:36 PM
Ah yes, the old - "if you can't beat 'em, show the true extent of your ridiculousness" tactic. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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Alyssa1127
04-18-2004, 09:08 PM
"Ah yes, the old - "if you can't beat 'em, show the true extent of your ridiculousness" tactic."

And what is the meaning of that, pray tell?

heywooood
04-18-2004, 09:21 PM
looks like this thread turned into a private war between Olli72 and Buzzu..

kinda like the Chris and GK war that has been on for a few days..

Maybe we need a "Square Garden" instead of a Forum. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

GK.
04-18-2004, 09:34 PM
Bearcat had a 427 max speed. This is nothing compared to Japanese Fantasy Planes. I say throw in fantasy planes for both sides.

http://data.photodump.com/gk/shidensig.jpg
*Proud Chute Shooter*
"P40's can't out run the zero, so we'll have to outfly them." -Ben Affleck

BlitzPig_DDT
04-18-2004, 09:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alyssa1127:
"Ah yes, the old - "if you can't beat 'em, show the true extent of your ridiculousness" tactic."

And what is the meaning of that, pray tell?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Was referring to MD. Sorry. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

==================================
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Alyssa1127
04-18-2004, 09:55 PM
Not a problem... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Alyssa

Korolov
04-18-2004, 10:07 PM
No, no, no! You're forgetting about the P-90! Capable of a whopping 532mph at 30,000ft! The prototype took to flight on June 27, 1945. That qualifies it, and it kicks your Japanese fantasy plane's butt's! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

Maj_Death
04-18-2004, 10:32 PM
Still no match for Kikkas jet fighter http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/smileys-gun2.gif.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maj_Death here, Stab.I/JG1Death at HL

I build COOPs and DF maps. If you would like some of them you can get them atmy COOP page (http://www14.brinkster.com/triggerhappy770/default.htm)

I/JG1 Oesau is recruiting axis pilots who prefer to fly maximum realism. We accept both veterans and rookies. We fly in VEF2, VOW and may join other online wars in the future. Go to our forums at http://www.jg1-oesau.org/ for more details and to apply.
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BuzzU
04-18-2004, 10:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by heywooood:
looks like this thread turned into a private war between Olli72 and Buzzu..

kinda like the Chris and GK war that has been on for a few days..

Maybe we need a "Square Garden" instead of a Forum. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hardly a war.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buzz
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/anderson9.jpg

WUAF_Badsight
04-18-2004, 10:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maj_Death:

but still lagit WW2 stuff by our definition<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

are you Mad ?

the Bearcat was a WW2 production fighter

not seeing combat DOESNT make it a 1946 plane or make it a fantasy plane

enuff with your idiocracy

Maj_Death
04-18-2004, 11:39 PM
As far as something being a WW2 plane or not, 1 week too late is no different from 60 years too late. The Bearcat never engaged a single enemy during WW2 and so while it came close, it didn't get there in time. The Bearcat is a 1945 plane, but it is not a WW2 plane.

There really isn't any point in debating this though since some people here just don't seem to understand that some people here would like WW2 planes in a WW2 sim http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif. Regardless, I would be satisfied if all you asking for the F8F would just go ahead and admit you are willing to sacrifice a real WW2 plane in order to get it. Then please say which one because I'm curious as to what you wouldn't mind loosing.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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I build COOPs and DF maps. If you would like some of them you can get them atmy COOP page (http://www14.brinkster.com/triggerhappy770/default.htm)

I/JG1 Oesau is recruiting axis pilots who prefer to fly maximum realism. We accept both veterans and rookies. We fly in VEF2, VOW and may join other online wars in the future. Go to our forums at http://www.jg1-oesau.org/ for more details and to apply.
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F19_Olli72
04-19-2004, 12:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by heywooood:
looks like this thread turned into a private war between Olli72 and Buzzu..

kinda like the Chris and GK war that has been on for a few days..

Maybe we need a "Square Garden" instead of a Forum. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nah i dont have a grudge against anyone, my initial post to Buzz was simply a misunderstanding. And if anyone took offense for the chickenremark (Buzz) then i apologise. Creating some sort of 'war' between proBearcat fans and the rest is the last thing we need on this forum http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

I still hold my original opinion though, if Bearcat is made by a 3d party modeller and approved by the dev team & added later then its all fine by me. But like Maj_Death i dont want to sacrifice a plane in the initial release for it. ________________________________________________
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WUAF_Badsight
04-19-2004, 12:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maj_Death:

The Bearcat never engaged a single enemy during WW2
The Bearcat is a 1945 plane, but it is not a WW2 plane.

some people here just don't seem to understand that some people here would like WW2 planes in a WW2 sim
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


soooooo ......

whats your take on the Gloster Meteor !?!?!?!?

i mean it too MUST NOT be a WW2 plane seeing as how your definition shows only planes that engaged other planes are WW2 planes

Maj_Death
04-19-2004, 01:17 AM
I said enemy, not enemy plane http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif. That can mean flying bombs, ships, ground forces and planes. I don't have any problem with the addition of the Meteor to FB/AEP. But you are avoiding my question. What real WW2 fighter would you like to cut in order to allow resources to be spent on the F8F Bearcat?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maj_Death here, Stab.I/JG1Death at HL

I build COOPs and DF maps. If you would like some of them you can get them atmy COOP page (http://www14.brinkster.com/triggerhappy770/default.htm)

I/JG1 Oesau is recruiting axis pilots who prefer to fly maximum realism. We accept both veterans and rookies. We fly in VEF2, VOW and may join other online wars in the future. Go to our forums at http://www.jg1-oesau.org/ for more details and to apply.
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WUAF_Badsight
04-19-2004, 01:29 AM
thats pathetic

who's saying we want it in at any cost ? .... why the stupid question ?

& not meeting a single enemy doesnt disqualify the Bearcat as a WW2 plane

i.e. 1) when was it designed , 2) when did it fly in testing 3) when was it produced

answer to all is during WW2

your reasoning is backwards MajDeath ....

its like saying the guys who flew their time in the Pacific but never got to spot any bandits or get into any dogfights were not really WW2 pilots or not really members of the American navy/army airforce during WW2

can you see how your qualification is flawed now ?

hunhunter-texas
04-19-2004, 04:56 AM
Assuming that Pacific Fighters is a Pacific version of Forgotten Battles, surely the Bearcat would just be the PF version of the Go229 or P80??

I would rather see 'fringe' Pacific theatre planes included rather than the existing Yaks,Migs 109's etc...

I wouldn't say it should be a priority, but it should not be ruled out altogether.

sugaki
04-19-2004, 11:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>its like saying the guys who flew their time in the Pacific but never got to spot any bandits or get into any dogfights were not really WW2 pilots or not really members of the American navy/army airforce during WW2

can you see how your qualification is flawed now ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The fact is, the F8F didn't make it in time to see battle. Portraying it in battle produces a "what-if" scenario. And you still cannot address this fact. It wasn't because the F8F just happened to never encounter Japanese planes, it was because it wasn't deployed in time.

These threads are completely pointless, because we restate the same things over and over. Nothing new has been said, Luthier's already clear on the issue.

Pro-F8Fers still cannot admit that working on the plane will mean that some plane that actually fought in real life will be sacrificed.

I like the F8F, nor am I some "real life" purist. It's a game, it's supposed to be fun. But I'd rather see planes that actually fought in the war than a plane that never saw combat, simply cus' some F8F fans want it.

At least admit this F8Fers: there's a lot more important planes to be modelled than the F8F. The F8F had absolutely no consequence to the war, while planes that actually fought did (which would include the Meteor).

Developers don't have unlimited resources. Including the F8F will come at the expense of other real life planes.

All of this chatter doesn't matter anyway, since the game's probably at a development stage where the type of planes to be introduced have already been established.

Quit turning everything into "You don't want the F8F cus' you don't want Japanese planes to get 0WN3D!!" It's childish, and downright absurd.

P-DEX
04-19-2004, 01:48 PM
Hey, I'm all for flying "what-if" aircraft on both sides. Lets just keep them out of the initial release and then bring 'em out in subsequent patches/enhancements.

This will give Luthier and Co. enough time to do an X-Wing fighter by the third or fourth patch.

Hey, it flew a long time ago...

(it's a joke, people) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WUAF_Badsight
04-19-2004, 05:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sugaki:

Pro-F8Fers still cannot admit that working on the plane will mean that some plane that actually fought in real life will be sacrificed.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

not one single person has asked that the Bearcat be included in the inital release

not one single person has asked that the Bearcat be given priority over any other A/C

but people saying that the Bearcat isnt a WW2 A/C are insane

Maj_Death
04-19-2004, 05:24 PM
Yes, I am insane. But that has nothing to do with me claiming that the Bearcat is not a WW2 fighter. It was a post WW2 fighter by about 1 week, but that is post war none the less.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maj_Death here, Stab.I/JG1Death at HL

I build COOPs and DF maps. If you would like some of them you can get them atmy COOP page (http://www14.brinkster.com/triggerhappy770/default.htm)

I/JG1 Oesau is recruiting axis pilots who prefer to fly maximum realism. We accept both veterans and rookies. We fly in VEF2, VOW and may join other online wars in the future. Go to our forums at http://www.jg1-oesau.org/ for more details and to apply.
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BlitzPig_DDT
04-19-2004, 05:31 PM
Badsight, seems these guys all have inside info and we will only ever get the given # of planes in the release. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Not only that, seems that we are the ones who are being plane set commies some how and unable to understand that people want certain planes. The fact that they have just that very stance themselves is obviously different. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

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sugaki
04-19-2004, 05:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Not only that, seems that we are the ones who are being plane set commies some how and unable to understand that people want certain planes. The fact that they have just that very stance themselves is obviously different. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not that I'm anti-F8F, I'm anti introducing a plane that never saw combat over a plane that did.

There are so many planes to cover that actually fought that you would never be able to cover all of them. And given the choice, I'd rather see resources go toward those planes than planes that weren't deployed in time.

Don't be patronizing, it's not a matter of knowing inside info, it's a simple reality: developers have limited resources, and must build a limited amount of planes. Limited amount of planes means that not every single plane can be modelled, and some will get snipped out.

Given the limitations, I'd rather them not work on the F8F, and instead cover all the planes that saw battle.

Why resort to name calling (IE reverse plane commies)? I like the F8F, but I just don't care to see it until every single major variant plane that had a role in the war are modelled.

If PF has a lineup equivalent to Aces of the Pacific, sure, great, bring on the F8F, as well as other "what-if" planes.

-Aki

BlitzPig_DDT
04-19-2004, 05:47 PM
We have people claiming that it's the equivalent of everything from designs that never made it into productions, all the way up to modern prototype, and you presuming to tell others to not be patronizing? Oh man, this just gets better and better! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

How many planes did IL2 have? How many does AEP have?

Exactly.

Some are clearly afraid of it's introduction, others just want more of the same old boring crap rehased again for the billionth time, and the remainin straglers just don't want others to have the freedom to have fun with planes that they themselves don't care to see added. And they all come off with the same "it ruins the game" and "we will only get X # of planes, and adding it means another will be lost forever" melodrama. The best though has to be the outlandishly ridiculous notion that planes we already have need to be dropped to make room for it. As if it was being distributed on a single 3.5" Floppy or something. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

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BuzzU
04-19-2004, 05:53 PM
I wonder if any of you whining about the Bearcat, fly the 109Z?

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http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/anderson9.jpg

sugaki
04-19-2004, 06:09 PM
Egh, got double posted.

[This message was edited by sugaki on Mon April 19 2004 at 05:51 PM.]

sugaki
04-19-2004, 06:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sugaki:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
We have people claiming that it's the equivalent of everything from designs that never made it into productions, all the way up to modern prototype, and you presuming to tell others to not be patronizing? Oh man, this just gets better and better! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never said anything to that nature, and it is your posts that "just gets better and better."

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The best though has to be the outlandishly ridiculous notion that planes we already have need to be dropped to make room for it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting you say melodrama, since you're the one that's getting all riled up with pointless rhetoric.

It's easy to make a long list of influential distinct WWII planes that never made it in games, and if you think that all the necessary planes have already been covered then you're very wrong.

Also, if you think Zeroes and Hellcats are "the same old boring crap," I suggest Crimson Skies: Highroad to Revenge. Completely new planes, new settings, and none of the redundant humdrum you'd find in stuff "rehashed for the billionth time." http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Oh, and if you think emphasis on realism and historcity is just wrong, you ought to read the press release again:

"Pacific Fighters will deliver even more of the high-quality graphics, historical detail and realism."

The scope of the game itself is to be historical. If you don't like it, maybe you should play a different game, or suggest a petition for a "what-if" expansion.

-Aki

BlitzPig_DDT
04-19-2004, 06:52 PM
This from the guy (?) that says "don't get patronizing". http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

The double standard continues. Well, at least you guys are consistent. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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sugaki
04-19-2004, 06:59 PM
Oops, I did stoop to your level haven't I? My apologies.

Double standard continues? Curious to know what instigated it.

These threads need to get locked and die.

SkyChimp
04-19-2004, 07:27 PM
On the day of surrender, a squadron of F8Fs were on board this ship between Hawaii and Japan:

http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/images/usa/cvl27.jpg

Regards,
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/wildsig.jpg

VFA-195 Snacky
04-19-2004, 07:41 PM
Let the whining commence.LMAO

If I were to look at this from a totally unbiased viewpoint I can honestly say that if the ME109Z can manage its way into this sim then by far the Bearcat deserves a slot.
If the bearcat ends up "Uber" then servers will start banning it anyway so its a lose/lose situation.lol

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