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View Full Version : We really need a better scoring system in PF!



VF-2_John_Banks
08-27-2004, 01:11 PM
folks!

Is there a chance that we will see a better and more fair scoring system in PF, or maybe even a real kill counter like in CFS2?

I mean it really sucks that you only get 70% of the points for a kill when you crash land. Thats complete BS as pilots still got they full kill, even when they crash landed due to battle damage. The sxoring system in FB is even worse and much more unfair than it was in IL2. Why do you get the penalty points 90% of the time, when a plane of your own side rams you from behind? Why didn't Oleg went for a real kill counter? When you kill a plane, you get a 1 and so on.

And maybe even a death counter like 2 kills and 3 deaths, which would be 2/3. That's how it was in all the other flightsims like EAW and CFS2. I can't believe we are stuck with this s*itty point system till the end of days, as it doesn't even differ between ground kills and A2A kills. And why can the Ai ruins your points when you clipped a wing of an enemy plane and the damn flak hits him right before he crashes? That just can't be!

There was a great kill system in PAW1942. When several guys show at the same target, the pilot who caused the most damage got the kill. Can't be really that hard to do heh?

VF-2_John_Banks
08-27-2004, 01:11 PM
folks!

Is there a chance that we will see a better and more fair scoring system in PF, or maybe even a real kill counter like in CFS2?

I mean it really sucks that you only get 70% of the points for a kill when you crash land. Thats complete BS as pilots still got they full kill, even when they crash landed due to battle damage. The sxoring system in FB is even worse and much more unfair than it was in IL2. Why do you get the penalty points 90% of the time, when a plane of your own side rams you from behind? Why didn't Oleg went for a real kill counter? When you kill a plane, you get a 1 and so on.

And maybe even a death counter like 2 kills and 3 deaths, which would be 2/3. That's how it was in all the other flightsims like EAW and CFS2. I can't believe we are stuck with this s*itty point system till the end of days, as it doesn't even differ between ground kills and A2A kills. And why can the Ai ruins your points when you clipped a wing of an enemy plane and the damn flak hits him right before he crashes? That just can't be!

There was a great kill system in PAW1942. When several guys show at the same target, the pilot who caused the most damage got the kill. Can't be really that hard to do heh?

Dirt_312
08-27-2004, 03:46 PM
I have to agree. I would like to see a score system that when you complete a mission it would show you air kills, ground kills and sea kills. Maybe even what type of kill (1-truck, 1-FW-190 and so on).

http://www.wideopenwest.com/~taylorde/312sig.jpg

FA_Maddog
08-27-2004, 05:05 PM
I agree 100%. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif It would be nice to see "Enemy has been shot down by (your name) with the help of ( team mate )" Give the credit to the first guy that shot him. Maybe this would discourage kill stealing.

Tater-SW-
08-27-2004, 05:08 PM
Someday I'd like to see a game with realistic scoring, itstead of points, etc.

You'd get credit for a flame, major failure (wing off, etc) or a bail out---assuming someone else friendly is within a certain range to verify it (you could assume verification on plane types equipped with gun cameras). You'd get partial credit if partial credit was due (1/2, 1/4 kill, etc). You'd get no credit for planes you damage, but crash out of sight of your plane at all. A ditch within your view would count as a kill as well, I think. Smoke but no fire, and no crash/bail within your sight would be a "probable."

What would make this even more cool would be if upon finishing a mission, you are presented with a post-mission interrogation/debrief screen. You'd be asked to enter kills, probables, and ground kills in a few fields. Only after submitting this would you see your actual vs claimed kills. This would be very interesting to get a feel for how things got overclaimed in reality given the confusing nature of combat.

tater

Dirt_312
08-27-2004, 05:08 PM
Im with Maddog. Maybe show percent such as:

Pilot01....45%
Pilot02....55%

http://www.wideopenwest.com/~taylorde/312sig.jpg

VMF-214_HaVoK
08-27-2004, 06:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FA_Maddog:
I agree 100%. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif It would be nice to see "Enemy has been shot down by (your name) with the help of ( team mate )" Give the credit to the first guy that shot him. Maybe this would discourage kill stealing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats an excellent idea. And I agree with all that we need a new scoring system.

I would also like to see a better chat system and maybe the option to adjust transparency of all text that tend to clutter up the screen and take away from the experience.

=S=

http://www.flightsuits.com/images/patches/patch_vmf214a.jpg
http://www.flightjournal.com/images/plane_profiles/corsair/c.jpg
www.vmf-214.net (http://www.vmf-214.net)
(The Original BlackSheep Squadron of IL-2/FB/AEP/PF)

Jason Bourne
08-27-2004, 09:57 PM
actually, for the sharing kills, and deciding who gets the kill, i think that it should be whoever put the most rounds into him gets the kill, of course the problem brought up by this is if you kill some one with one 13mm round, and then another person puts 2 rounds into him, but whatever, to bad, seems like a better system the there is now

...there followed one of those moments in history, the sort when the entire earth seemed to stop its spin, hearts paused, and even the people who'd been screaming their loyalty to a man already dead would remember only silence.

Tater-SW-
08-27-2004, 11:03 PM
Shared kills should be partial credit, 2 planes shoot, 1/2 kill each. If a whole flight hits the target, it's 1/4 each. that's the way it was in RL.

tater

Kartveli
08-28-2004, 11:39 AM
Jane's had a great scoring AND chat...

even before the plane hit the ground, when someone did enough damage to the enemy, it awarded a kill to the responsible pilot ( no kill stealing in Janes!)

Janes also had a simple individual/team kill/loss ratio counter...what else doo you need?

I dont know how many times in FB ive sent garbled chat texts, cuz I would start my message with a number, bringing up an old message , this thing that is supoosed to save time with pre loaded messages just gets me mad, and wastes time as I have to backspace this **** (and one cannot simply HOLD the bckspce key down, has to be indiviual keystroke wtf?) and re enter messsage...by that time, my friend, 888th sqad johnny, or whoever, is already dead from the guy I couldnt warn him about...not to mention, sometimes it seems, even though the chat interface is on, when I hit the "I" key, which is also the default engine start/kill key, my engine quits! WTF?

there are SO many other examples of both scoring and chat in other online games, let alone flight combat games, I truly wonder how 1C/Maddox could have possibly gone SO wrong in this dept

Not by a large amount, but it DOES take some of the enjoyment from an otherwise great flight combat experience

Kartveli
08-28-2004, 11:43 AM
I should mention, of course, that in Janes, the team/individual kill/loss counter was displayed after the game was over, but during the game, it dispalyed only how many revives the person had taken to that point....even that would be better than FB scoring now, it would maybe encourage ppl not to be th point *****s many are now, but to teach the real way, that is, stay alive! Keep losses as low as possible!

JG7_Rall
08-28-2004, 04:01 PM
I agree, current system is BS. And sometimes if you land at base and the game doesn't see it as a perfect landing for whatever reason, you end up "running from your burning crate" or whatever other BS and the other pilot gets the kill or you lose credit. A simple kill counter would be better I think, and maybe a different one for ground targets, as well as a death counter. The "x was shot down by n with the help of z" idea is awesome too.

http://home.comcast.net/~nate.r5388/16502.jpg
"Son, never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him."
Badges!? We don't needs no stinkin' badges!
Flying online as Hutch51

VF-2_John_Banks
08-28-2004, 05:14 PM
Seems everybody agrees...hehe. Wonder why there haven't been any threads about that earlier. It's atleast as annoying as "The Bar" in the 190 cockpit lol.

Crash landings are something which should be rewarded, especially if you have to crash due to battle damage. You bring back the plane in almost one piece, you save the pilot and wont get captured and to make such a mission complete, you get a penalty by only receiving 70% of your points. I remember other sims where you got a DFC after such a mission. But i guess things are much different in Russia and Oleg wants us to get penalties as often as possible. That's FUBAR!

Tater-SW-
08-28-2004, 06:05 PM
You shouldn't ever get credit for a plane thatgoes down or crash lands/ditches beyond your visual range. Even with icons off, the machine still tracks range for icons if they were there, if a kill should be recorded, but you are past X range, no kill, period.

tater

Rook_336
08-28-2004, 06:34 PM
John Banks,

I've been starting threads like this one and have been on the kills/deaths/bailed band wagon for 4 years now. My pleas for this simple change have fallen on deaf ears....

How about this time around we keep bumping this request until one of the devs or mods acknowledges this suggestion? Being a programmer, I can't imagine that this change would be a derailment of their schedule/deadlines if they were to implement - it is an easy improvement that would enhance online play.

VF-2_John_Banks
08-28-2004, 06:37 PM
Tater, i mean your own points for definite kills. When you shot down a plane and you have to crash land due to flak damage, why the hell do you only get 60 points instead of 100? You made it home alive and crash landed. In real life, that would get you a DFC and not a penalty!

Jason Bourne
08-28-2004, 07:55 PM
another thing i want changed is the chat system, after all, what if someone types you a msg, then a kill happens...YOU DONT GET THE MSG! they need to move the chat scroller to the bottem left or to below the aircrast command thing (% power etc.) so that we can actually see it.

...there followed one of those moments in history, the sort when the entire earth seemed to stop its spin, hearts paused, and even the people who'd been screaming their loyalty to a man already dead would remember only silence.

Tater-SW-
08-28-2004, 07:59 PM
True, I guess. I never looked at the points, I just count kills (and would like to count probables)

tater

Rook_336
08-28-2004, 10:12 PM
BTW, FYI if the chat msgs are getting in the way of your other game messages, you can open the chat window and drag to say, the bottom of the screen if you want. I do agree though that even with the ability to move it around on screen, the current chat system is pretty bad and could use a fair bit of improvement.

IV_JG51_Prien
08-29-2004, 06:40 PM
What I hate more than anything, is when you take some damage from a player or even AAA, but make it home to land, when you hit refly the message of "Scratch was shot down by Sniff!"

Honestly, damaging someone but having them return to thier base to safely land is not a F-ing kill!!

http://www.jg51.net/downloads/squadbanner.bmp

Henry_Shrapnel
08-29-2004, 07:46 PM
I prefer to ignore the scoring systems since the mission goal is a team effort. What matters is completing the objective for the side your on and not who did exactly what. I'd rather see no scoring system at all than have another bad one in place. I look at it this way. If a wingman covers his teammate but doesn't shoot anything down himself he should then be given about the same amount of credit for doing his job. I don't see how there can be any way for a game engine to support correct scoring because it is too complicated and it would require a machine that thinks just like a real person. What I'm saying is that the players should decide who should be given credit for doing things. Do you ever wonder why so few players in IL2FB bother to escort their bombers? It's because they are too buisy trying to rack up their lame points.

VMF-214_Pappy
08-29-2004, 10:08 PM
One of best ideas I have heard in long time that Maddox games wont impliment into the game.

http://www.flightjournal.com/images/plane_profiles/corsair/history.jpg

www.vmf-214.net (http://www.vmf-214.net)
Semper Fi
(The Original BlackSheep Squadron of IL-2/FB/AEP/PF)

FA_Maddog
08-29-2004, 11:17 PM
I like what both Tater and Prien had to say.

If you shoot a plane and it goes down within visual range it's a kill, you shoot a plane that goes down outside your visual range it's a probable, and if the plane makes it back and lands it would be credited as damaged.

Rook_336
08-30-2004, 01:09 AM
So can we have this feature implemented or what? Please? Pretty please? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Rook_336
08-31-2004, 02:22 PM
bump for official eyes

SKULLS_Exec01
08-31-2004, 04:45 PM
Yep, love the idea also!!
Don't forget shipping as tonns or maybe just sunk and military vs merchant and then vehicles (tanks, jeeps, etc), buildings (factorys, fuel storage tanks...). Ooops, starting to get muddy here...

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/skulls/images/Sigs/skulls_sig-Exec01A.gif (http://skulls98.tk)
SKULLS_Exec
CO of The SKULLS Squadron

Rook_336
09-02-2004, 10:35 PM
Another bump. Come on people, let's get some more exposure here!

TPN_Cephas
09-02-2004, 11:40 PM
A big beef I have is how low the scoring is for ground targets, especially ships. Getting more points for downing a plane than sinking a capital ship seems ludicrous to me.

http://home.comcast.net/~pmcgwire/petetaipan.jpg

GerritJ9
09-03-2004, 05:30 AM
I only fly offline, but my main complaint about the scoring system is that if you shoot down an enemy and get shot down at the same time (by, say, his wingman), you are not credited with a kill if your aeroplane hits the ground before your kill does. A kill is a kill, and whether my aeroplane strikes the ground before my opponent's does is irrelevant.
I don't agree with the view that you shouldn't be awarded a kill if your target crashes out of sight- after all, you did cause enough damage for him to crash before reaching his base.

VF-2_John_Banks
09-05-2004, 09:57 AM
bump

Owlsphone
09-05-2004, 10:09 AM
Great idea...some more bumpage for Oleg.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Owlsphone/Sig.jpg
Vertically challenged since 1984.

Rook_336
09-06-2004, 11:31 AM
I thought of another improvement on the DF score sysrem - also include the amount of time the player has been on the server when the S key is held. That way players know that guy with the 45 kills has been on the server for the past 8 hours, lol

unseen84
09-06-2004, 03:10 PM
I really like Tater's idea. It would be awesome if they could implement a kill-scoring system involving 1/2 & 1/3 kills as well as probables.
I flew a mission in my (offline) campaign yesterday where I hit a 109 a few times, caused no major damage, and then lost contact with him a couple minutes later. Then about 10 minutes after losing contact, I get told that I just destroyed an enemy plane since apparently that 109 had crashed, and I hadn't hit anything else either. Its just crazy, I had no business getting credit for that kill. I wouldn't have even claimed a probable since I didn't think I had damaged him at all.

Rook_336
09-09-2004, 01:29 AM
Another improvement - how about make all these potential stats host configurable? That way the host can determine what is displayed when the player holds down the S key. You could then have a score system or kill/death stat system or even both...

Biloxi72
09-09-2004, 07:01 AM
S!
Well i must admit all of the ideas in here are great. May i ask a question though with out malice or to start a flame? Why is scoring so important anyhow in terms of kills? When i fly in coops or even df rooms my concerns was surviving and if i get a plane to crash and burn or leave the area that was a kill enough for me. I know everyone has their own personal liking, i was just curious on why this is important to you guys that a change would be warranted with the ideas you propose. When i fly as ground pounder i only cared if i saw target destroyed, and if i crashed before i made it home no matter cause still hit my objectives.
Thank you
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Exzipion
09-10-2004, 06:21 AM
When a group pilots sink a ship ¿all pilots give identical points? or ¿only final hit pilot obtained all points?

Rook_336
09-10-2004, 01:22 PM
Co-ops are about survival and accomplishing a mission objective.

Matches in DF servers are for a different mindset - competition and direct combat, so consequently they are more aggresive. A non-scripted DF is all about shooting down other human players.

You'll hear players sometimes say the score in a DF is not important but they're just fooling themselves. I partially agree that the score is not important, but from a different angle:

When I hit a DF server, I want some challenge and to test and refine my DF skills. I've gotten to the point where I often pass up an attack on an enemy player if they don't have a score or look to be an unknown or novice based on their flying style. I will, however, go after players I recognize that I know to be decent or players that have a respectable score.

THE PROBLEM IS, THE SCORES ARE UNRELIABLE. The best "ace" on a DF server right now could have a **** score of 40 because even though he shot down 6 planes on his first two sorties and RTB'd (SCORE : 600), the following sortie he shotdown 3 more planes, but was RAMMED by a friendly plane (-270 for SCORE: 330). The next sortie, he helps a friendly plane by waxing a bandit off his six, unfortunatley some of his bullets nick the friendly for minor damage. The friendly RTBs safely though, but on friendly respawn the penalty is enforced (another -300).
Our hero in this story then gets shot down by the conga line of enemies that had rushed to the area of the low energy fight to save that team mate. His score on the leaderboard is now 40pts!! (600 + 30 -300 +10 - 300). GRRRRRR...

Had stats been allowed, the leaderboard would now be showing:
PlayerA 10 Kills 2 Deaths 0 Bailed INSTEAD! Generally, a player with a 5 to 1 kill ratio like that is a good challenge , but how the Hell can we tell when he only has 40pts with this obscure score system!?!?!

So once a again a plea to anyone on the dev team or mods, "PLEASE CHANGE THE SCORE SYSTEM!"

DIRTY-MAC
09-11-2004, 08:53 AM
BUMP!

Biloxi72
09-13-2004, 06:55 AM
S!
Ahh ok rook that makes more sense to me and how I fly online.

FA_Maddog
09-13-2004, 07:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RufShod:
S!
Ahh ok rook that makes more sense to me and how I fly online.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Also RufShod there are a lot of squads that fly matches against each other. So scoring is very important to determine who is the winner.

FA_Maddog
09-13-2004, 08:03 AM
I would also like to see the host be able to turn off the kill & damage text messages. You would find out how you did after the co-op, match, or exit the game.

Reschke
09-13-2004, 01:13 PM
Just make it simple. Either a kill or an assist. If you want verification then make it so that another plane in the vicinity has to "witness" the kill. I like what someone else posted about having a post mission debrief screen where you list your number of kills and such then you get to see the true number.

Lcdr. Reschke
CO VF-17 " The Jolly Rogers"
The Jolly Rogers (http://www.vf-17.org)

Rook_336
10-16-2004, 06:40 PM
So was there ever any "official" comment on this? Come on.... toss us a bone here.

flockzap
10-16-2004, 06:51 PM
Bumpsas
I agree 100%

But one thing is puzzling me though... CrazyIvan didn´t post yet...hmmmmmmm
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Cheers
Flock

AtomicRunt
10-16-2004, 09:51 PM
Its been "done to death" for along time Gents...I agree 100% with you all...

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=909101872&r=942101082#942101082


http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=26310365&m=935006827&p=4

Not a word from anyone about points changing...its a dead issue.

609IAP_Recon
10-17-2004, 12:36 AM
I say if you die or get captured you lose all your points, cause dead is dead.

LuckyBoy1
10-17-2004, 12:45 AM
If you even care about points, I'd go so far as to say you've picked the wrong game. It isn't about points; it is about mission objectives and getting home alive!

AtomicRunt
10-17-2004, 01:29 AM
Your right LuckyBoy...but when some are so worried about points it only makes it that much harder for those that want to reach mission objectives and get home alive!

609IAP_Recon
10-17-2004, 06:52 AM
Although you can get totally tied into points, to say caring about them is worthless, is a bit extreme.

Points can provide a good reward, if you think "It isn't about points; it is about mission objectives and getting home alive! " is key, then wouldn't you put more value, hence a point system that rewarded your goals?

I think the topic is about a better scoring system - not a topic on "it isn't about points" =)

JG54_Arnie
10-17-2004, 07:42 AM
Roger that!!

It could use a good overhaul!

Rook_336
10-22-2004, 05:04 PM
With such strong support, it confounds me why the dev team continues to ignore this. Especially since it would be so easy to implement from a programming standpoint.

ArjenKuifje
10-22-2004, 05:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuckyBoy1:
If you even care about points, I'd go so far as to say you've picked the wrong game. It isn't about points; it is about mission objectives and getting home alive! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If memory serves me right, it was Cuck Yeager who said: 'The real hero is the pilot who lives to fight another day'.
Nothing more, nothing less. If you want to score point, go arcade!
Get your objective done, and get home! Be part of a team, wether it's online, offline or whatever!