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ATKRON122
07-09-2004, 02:12 PM
As there are many advanced fighters included on the axis side, I am wondering if you will include the Grumman Bearcat F8F-2 in the plan set for the allies. Thank you

ATKRON122
07-09-2004, 02:12 PM
As there are many advanced fighters included on the axis side, I am wondering if you will include the Grumman Bearcat F8F-2 in the plan set for the allies. Thank you

VW-IceFire
07-09-2004, 02:18 PM
Which advanced fighters?

F8F Bearcat would be lovely to see...BUT...it missed being involved with WWII by about a month or so. First squadron was on a carrier bound for Japan when the war ended.

I'm all for seeing it if we do a what if scenario with some of the Japanese aircraft that never quite made it to use.

You'll see many purists posting shortly on this hotly debated topic on how we should never have the Bearcat in the sim. So don't be too alarmed when that happens http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

Gibbage1
07-09-2004, 02:24 PM
I asked Luthier if I could do an F8F, and he said under no circumstance would PF ever see a Bearcat or Tigercat. Lol. I dont think he like the idea of putting in the "what if" scenario's.

Yellonet
07-09-2004, 02:39 PM
Dear Developers,

Please do not waste any effort on making planes that did not see any, or extremely limited action in the PTO. Put that effort into making the planes that really made a difference even better. Please.

Yours faithfully,

Yellonet

DDad
07-09-2004, 02:40 PM
Heres my $.02 worth- By 1945, the Japanese really didn't have any effective aircraft to counter the Corsair, much less the Bearcat

Yellonet
07-09-2004, 02:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
I asked Luthier if I could do an F8F, and he said under no circumstance would PF ever see a Bearcat or Tigercat. Lol. I dont think he like the idea of putting in the "what if" scenario's.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Man! That Luthier guy sure is the greatest http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


- Yellonet

Gibbage1
07-09-2004, 02:53 PM
Hay Yellow. Just for you!

http://www.gibbageart.com/images/f5u01.jpg

Yellonet
07-09-2004, 03:26 PM
Why does everyone call me yellow http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif

That looks really cool actually. Your own design Gib?

I just hope it doesn't sneak into PF http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


- Yellonet

Gibbage1
07-09-2004, 03:46 PM
No. Its the F5U. Very interesting aircraft. 40MPH stall speed.

http://www.aerofiles.com/vot-xf5u.jpg

Penguin_PFF
07-09-2004, 04:54 PM
The F7F was closer to combat than the F8F, if I remember right. There was a squadron in Korea pulling occupation duty in late August or early September of 1945. The Tigercat might have seen action if the war had gone on another two or three weeks.

That doesn't change the fact that there are more important planes to work on than the almost-fought or über types. Of course, I'll say that, but it won't matter, because nobody even reads the stuff on the front page, never mind searching for the answer to their question, before posting. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-09-2004, 05:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
I asked Luthier if I could do an F8F, and he said under no circumstance would PF ever see a Bearcat or Tigercat. Lol. I dont think he like the idea of putting in the "what if" scenario's.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


AWWW

the spoilsports get their way

*shakes fist*

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
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WUAF_Badsight
07-09-2004, 05:13 PM
hey yellownet , i hope your hard drive melts & your PSUs explodes

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Yellonet
07-09-2004, 05:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
hey yellownet , i hope your hard drive melts & your PSUs explodes

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah. Nice talking to you.


- Yellonet

heywooood
07-09-2004, 05:31 PM
Gibbage loves the flying pancake...


I subscribe to the old addage... if you make it...I'll fly it.



http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/ac_32_1.jpg
"Check your guns"

VW-IceFire
07-09-2004, 10:45 PM
Well seeing as the Bearcat and Tigercat is out...can someone please make sure that the Helldiver and the Firefly are flyable attack aircraft?

I hear the Helldiver is not flyable...at least not right off the bat, and the Firefly probably nobody's ever heard of despite being the first Commonwealth aircraft to fly over Tokyo (and bomb it evidently) as well destroying Japanese oil and several other major exploits. Flown by the Fleet Air Arm.

I guess I'm always interested in the aircraft that are not going to make it or have slim chances of making it into the game. Know what I mean? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

F19_Olli72
07-10-2004, 03:38 AM
Firefly would be nice http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Although my 'not-a-chance-to-be-included' fav plane would be the P-26 Peashooter. Not used operationally by the U.S (afaik) but Philippine government used it against the Japanese in December 1941, all planes were destroyed :| China had some as well.

http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/Olli72/Forgotten%20Battles/cloudtut/sig2.jpg (http://www.screenshotart.com)

Penguin_PFF
07-10-2004, 07:25 AM
Folks (oh boy, here I am on the soap-box again),

There will never be a shortage of airplanes that people would like to see in the game. I know I'd be happy to model a lot of them, and of course, who wouldn't want a given type of airplane flyable (besides whiners, that is)? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I'm sure I don't have to say that resources are limited and when it comes time to decide on an initial planeset in a game like this, a lot of thought is put into it. Despite accusations to the contrary, "unforgivable crimes" such as leaving out a plane type in the initial release are never committed without good reason.

Note: Please don't think from my tone that critical things are left out or frivolous ones are added in the actual game, and that I'm trying to justify an oversight that has been made. I have no idea, really, I'm just making a broad point!

Making a plane properly is a very broad and intensive effort that takes weeks and requires the help and effort of a surprising amount of people. Imagine the modeler, and then the interface between the modeler and the programming team, the programming guys, the guy who owns the company who might look over the programmer's shoulders to make sure it's quality is OK, the people who help with references, the e-mails and forum posts and sometimes even phone calls that need to be made... And this is just for an airplane.

It takes a lot of work, and not everything is possible. Sometimes people make it sound so arbitrary. "Oh this is in and this is not and that's really bad/good" etc. It's never as simple to make as it is to judge it on a forum. Typing takes four seconds, modeling takes four months. Of course, this in no way absolves anyone of their responsibility to make a good game. But have a little balance in how you see things... Remember, the modelers love planes too. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Just food for thought.

ZG77_Nagual
07-10-2004, 07:49 AM
I'm down with the historical thing myself. I think limiting development to planes that actually saw action goes to quality over quantity. I've noticed even on servers that allow the whole plane set - most people choose historical aircraft. As the games been out awhile I think online pilots are more into tests of skill and less technology.

BlitzPig_DDT
07-10-2004, 09:37 AM
The idea that a Japanese paper design should be included if the F8F, which was designed, built, tested, checked out, purchased, and equipped to squadron status, steaming towards the front when the war ended, is fecking ludicrous.

But, I have said before that the devs, and most others here, would never allow any US plane with such capabilities in because they could not tolerate the US having something so good.

And......it is now evident that I am right.

People suck.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

Yellonet
07-10-2004, 09:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
The idea that a Japanese paper design should be included if the F8F, which was designed, built, tested, checked out, purchased, and equipped to squadron status, steaming towards the front when the war ended, is fecking ludicrous.

But, I have said before that the devs, and most others here, would never allow any US plane with such capabilities in because they could not tolerate the US having something so good.

And......it is now evident that I am right.

People suck.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or perhaps they wont allow it because it wasn't used in the war! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif


- Yellonet

BlitzPig_DDT
07-10-2004, 09:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellonet:
Or perhaps they wont allow it because _it wasn't used in the war!_ http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uh, right. Like the I-185, Bi-1, and MiG3U (think it was the U)?

That is a worthless cop out and nothing more. Nobody would say jack **** if a non-used plane from another side was to be implemented. If you don't know it, you're blind and possibly part of the problem.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

Penguin_PFF
07-10-2004, 09:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
But, I have said before that the devs, and most others here, would never allow any US plane with such capabilities in because they could not tolerate the US having something so good.

And......it is now evident that I am right.

People suck.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's quite a statement. Has it ocurred to you that probably half of the people working on this project are American, including the producer?

Oh wait, perhaps you're trolling?

I mean, obviously Luthier's nefarious plan to give the Japanese the J7W Shinden, N1K5-J, the Japanese Me 163, and the A7M Reppu while leaving the U.S. with only the Wildcat and the TBD is exposed! DUNDUNDAH!!!

Absolutely nothing is evident because nothing has been revealed one way or the other. Ergo, you are wrong. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

And I guess explaining that the BI-1 was third-party for the billionth time will convince people to stop *****ing about that either, huh. Nope, guess not.

heywooood
07-10-2004, 09:59 AM
hahahaa...he said ergo... actually used it in a sentence..

Blitzpig - wazzup?... people suck?...why you make such a broad, inflammatory statement?..

lighten up.



http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/ac_32_1.jpg
"Check your guns"

Penguin_PFF
07-10-2004, 10:03 AM
Indeed

It's nice to know that Luthier sucks for pulling ninteen-hour days, and a dozen plus modelers suck for grabbing every spare hour possible to model in between school, finals, family, and other jobs, and that everybody at Maddox sucks for working years and years to make a game, and so on... And because he doesn't like a couple of planes, we suck. Hey, at least I still get paid for it! Wait, that didn't sound good...

Those who can't, complain. A lot. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Yellonet
07-10-2004, 10:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellonet:
Or perhaps they wont allow it because _it wasn't used in the war!_ http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uh, right. Like the I-185, Bi-1, and MiG3U (think it was the U)?

That is a worthless cop out and nothing more. Nobody would say jack **** if a non-used plane from another side was to be implemented. If you don't know it, you're blind and possibly part of the problem.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I haven't said anything about those aircraft. Not all, if any, of them were in FB on it's release, personally I think that they instead could have added some other far more interesting planes that was actually used.
BTW I really like flying american planes looking forward to some of them very much. BUT, I don't want to see any planes that never saw any action! It's just a waste of time making them!


- Yellonet

BlitzPig_DDT
07-10-2004, 10:26 AM
"A waste of time making them"? Ooooo-k. I see Lexx is right about flight simmers that hate planes. How pathetically sad.

Heywood - yes, people suck. In general, across the board, and the anti-plane stuff in this thread is just another example. That isn't to say there aren't exceptions, but, they are few and far between. Maybe I know too much about history. Or maybe I'm the one off kilter because I like nature. Dunno. But this could get into a huge and mega OT discussion.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

heywooood
07-10-2004, 10:43 AM
I'm not "anti-plane" or anti-people, BP... see the other threads on this topic and believe in Heywooood.

I suggest maybe chillin'...'couple deep breaths?... no? Ok



http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/ac_32_1.jpg
"Check your guns"

Yellonet
07-10-2004, 10:54 AM
Plane-hater?.. Hah! The only thing I would hate would be if a plane that never saw any action would make it into the release at the cost of a plane that did see action.


- Yellonet

ATKRON122
07-10-2004, 01:18 PM
Thank you all for a lively and interesting discussion on my original question. If you all notice I simply ask IF the F-8 would be included. I did not whine, to my view anyway, I did not demand nor cast any dispursion on any other plane, group, race, creed hmmmmm what matra. The advanced fighters i am thinking of are the Ta 152H, my book says "a small number (67) were developed, and less of the H subtype (10) so it is hard for me to understand why this plane would be included, would be kinda hard to cover a large front with only 10 flyable planes and the Ki-84 although this one did play a much larger roll in the fight but "pilots never knew how a particular aircraft would perform, whether the brakes would work or whether, in trying to intercept B-29's over Japan, they would even be able to climb high enough." BUT you all miss the point of my question, it was SIMPLY if they were going to include the Bearcat, NOT that they should, or it needed to be etc. but simply WERE they, and the simple streight answer to that question it seems is a simple NO and that is perfectly good and right and fine with me. I love the game and fly many different planes. Thanks for all the lively responses. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Frank

Yellonet
07-10-2004, 01:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ATKRON122:
Thank you all for a lively and interesting discussion on my original question. If you all notice I simply ask IF the F-8 would be included. I did not whine, to my view anyway, I did not demand nor cast any dispursion on any other plane, group, race, creed hmmmmm what matra. The advanced fighters i am thinking of are the Ta 152H, my book says "a small number (67) were developed, and less of the H subtype (10) so it is hard for me to understand why this plane would be included, would be kinda hard to cover a large front with only 10 flyable planes and the Ki-84 although this one did play a much larger roll in the fight but "pilots never knew how a particular aircraft would perform, whether the brakes would work or whether, in trying to intercept B-29's over Japan, they would even be able to climb high enough." BUT you all miss the point of my question, it was SIMPLY if they were going to include the Bearcat, NOT that they should, or it needed to be etc. but simply WERE they, and the simple streight answer to that question it seems is a simple NO and that is perfectly good and right and fine with me. I love the game and fly many different planes. Thanks for all the lively responses. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Frank<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's great that you're taking it so easy and don't let our "liveliness" get to you. It's not something you see every day you know. Cheers mate!


- Yellonet

ATKRON122
07-10-2004, 02:33 PM
Cheers Yellonet, and no i don't think your name means yell - ow how about YELL - ON THE NET :-) but thank you, it was not my intention to cause a fire storm of any kind and i to agree with the premis about planes actually in the war. F8 would be nice but i much prefer IL2 as it is evolving then the joke that MSCFS-2 turned into when any and every body could modify the fligt model, zero weight fuel and bullets, firing 50mm cannons at a zillion rounds a minute, looking back every direction through the 360 field of view, more like star wars or arcade game then a realistic Flight model. Anyway there does seem to be strong feelings both ways about a lot of things about this game of ours but all said and done it is a great game and best hands down i have ever seen. Cheers back Mate and good on ya - hope ya do a bit of good for yourself.

WUAF_Badsight
07-10-2004, 04:02 PM
OH GAWD

down with Yellonet

down with Penguin_PFF

who cares about or said initial release ? ! ? ! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

some people actually seem to come across as thinking that less planes is actually more fun

IT AINT !

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-10-2004, 04:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellonet:

I don't want to see any planes that never saw any action! It's just a waste of time making them!


- Yellonet<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

another invalid & nonsensical opinion

as is any other that even hints in any way shape or form that the Bearcat & Reppu & Shinden dont belong in WW2 computer games

if they make them then *shock* , *horror* , they will get used

ohhhhhhh the nerve of people , actually wanting good performing planes

i mean how dare they !

do they not actually any human decency about them

i mean they didnt see combat ! why on Earth ! should they ever be in a computer game

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Yellonet
07-10-2004, 04:32 PM
Why should planes that wasn't in the war be in a sim about the war?

If your reasoning is that (clearly it is) high performance is what's important and that it doesn't matter if the aircraft in question were in WW2 or not, then why not throw in an F-18? Now that plane could really outperform those pesky Zero's.


- Yellonet

WUAF_Badsight
07-10-2004, 04:38 PM
well thats the typical knee jerk response , yes im sure you could be safe as houses in your F/A18 Hornet against Zekes

its a computer game

you should be allowed the late war planes to use so you can play out the "what if the war carried on" senarios

saying they "shouldnt be allowed at all" is an elietist & spoilsport attitude

why you so scared of the bearcat being in PF

you dont get realisim in DF rooms

coops are user made , you dont have to launch or bepart of them that are late war based

you attitude holds no common sense , PFs realism & offline campaings need not be affected in the least

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Yellonet
07-10-2004, 04:46 PM
I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed.

I'm saying that planes that made a difference should be the first priority. And with the tough deadline for PF there are probably only time for getting the essentials in.


- Yellonet

ATKRON122
07-17-2004, 08:40 AM
Well now that seems like a reasonable assement Yellonet. Your last post suggesting that AFTER the initial launch and when time is allowed that ADDITIONAL PLANE SETS would be a reasonable thing - to include not only the Bearcat but some other planes that were being developed at the close of the war. Both axis and allied sets. Some of the acutal Jets that were being built and flown at the close of the war. This to me would be a good addition i think, so next up after Battle of Britton is released and we have all three theaters as such then maybe we or THEY HAHA DO a Korean War and perhaps in a year or two we will have Viet Nam - I would like to "fly" the A1 Spad or Skyraider, I was with VA-122 for 4 good years and would love to see those plane developed some day in a REALISTIC - NOT ARCADE setting such as IL2 is. The A7-Corsair etc AND YES OF COURSE AND FOR SURE many many ohter NON-US PLANES, all the good ones from RUSSIA, FRANCE, ENGLAND, GERMANY where ever or when ever they existed and which ever country developed them i would like to see them modled in the realistic settings of IL2. Good flying to you all :-) Frank

Atomic_Marten
07-17-2004, 09:08 AM
IMO every A/C thet ever saw any action (even 1 combat flight and few types produced) in WW2 are right to be in PF. If for nothing else, just because we have flying wing, Me163, I-185(did that monster ever saw action?) and other 'forgotten' wonders that seems to outclassed every other -widely used in ww2- A/C in game. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

This is by no means limited only to Bearcat. (BTW nice name Bear+Cat=http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif)

csThor
07-17-2004, 11:10 AM
I know I'm not going to become popular by saying the following, but who cares? I am not interested in the PTO, but I actually fear negative influence on future products if the current way of introducing planes goes on.

[Stiglr mode on]

Why people keep asking for the latest and least used über-planes is far beyond me. Is it really the simple need for "imagined superiority", is it just to please the "gotta-win-scorewh*re* inside? You steadily keep mentioning the Bi-1, the MiG-3U, th Me 109Z and the I-185 to "justify" your request for phantasy planes which have no single use for a purposeful historical gameplay (as the historical offline campaign or a well-designed historical online game), but only are there for the endless online furballs (or better for the egos of the pilots?). I am asking back - Why making errors twice?

FB could have been for the simulation genre what "Black Cross - Red Star" is for the military history literature - the definite compendium on the Eastern Front aerial warfare. Unfortunately there has been little to no structure in adding planes. We have phantasy planes, we have western and pacific planes without an appropriate "sandbox" to play in and a sensible planeset without gaps. But we still do not have a soviet medium bomber flyable, the map set of the Eastern Front has barely scratched the surface and even though Ian Boys has provided us with a Murmansk map we still lack other very important areas (East Prussia, Kurland, area south of Lake Ilmen with Velikije Luki etc). All that went ... well wrong would be a bit hard, 'not quite optimal' would be the better phrase.

I really hope Maddox Games adds structure to their addon policy for BoB and after.

[Stiglr mode off]

______________________________

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p1ngu666
07-17-2004, 11:53 AM
actually, i like the idea of these uber/hardly used planes. there interesting. and u dont haveto use them do u?

they add to the value of the game or experience if used properly. these ppl who are against these planes also tend to want only a few planes for "correct FM/DM". FM/DM will always be wrong in some way, be sure http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

and didnt luther make the bi-1 ?

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&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!

ImpStarDuece
07-17-2004, 06:20 PM
I say never say never

Think about Il2. Who would of thought that as the game matured we would get the P-38, P-51, Hurricane, B-239, yp-80, Go-229, Ki-84, Zero, J8a, Iar 80/81 or any of the other oddities we seem to have flying over the Steppes http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Despite statements to the contrary i dont think we can rule out ANY plane because of historical or factual reasons. The 'wasnt used operationally' and 'didn't see combat' lines have been crossed so many times in IL2FB that they have been worn away.

Personally i really dont see the need for the F8F or the F7F, at least not straight away. I love the Tigercat but i think the INITIAL release of PF should be tilted towards those planes that were the MAJOR players in the air war in the Pacific, not bit players or almost made its.

I dont think that their non appearance in PF is a statement of anti-US bias. More likely it is born from a desire to get the essentials right first and then be able to relax and do more esoteric projects when the workload for Luthier and co dies down. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Flying Bullet Magnet... Catching Lead Since 2002

"There's no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks!"

"War is just an extension of politics carried out by other means" von Clauswitz.

RedDeth
07-17-2004, 09:14 PM
Impstarduece hit the nail on the head

FB has tons of what if stuff

and if someone makes the F8F Bearcat and F7F Tigercat like for instance........G I B B A G E then those two planes would be added in a future add on. even if oleg said no. once he got it handed to him he would add them. as he has with tons of other ridiculous planes aka 109Z GO229 YP80 HE163 ME162 etc etc etc... it would increase exposure on his game to have those planes and they would be added later

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of 12 time Champions AFJ http://66.237.29.231/IL2FS/round9.cfm http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/120_1088291823_taylor-greycap.jpg

csThor
07-17-2004, 10:57 PM
As I said .. Why making errors twice? I would not mind a few oddities if they came in a sensible package with other "oddities", perhaps a few maps if necessary just to create a believable environment. But only after the historically important planes are there, after the gaps in the planeset and mapset were closed.
Right now we have an indiscriminating watering can - no structure, no sense and definitely too little immersion.

Is it obvious that I dislike Furball-Servers? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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BlitzPig_DDT
07-17-2004, 11:16 PM
Also obvious that you are not satisfied with being able to make your game how you want it to be. Either out of laziness, or desire to deprive others, you would rather see choice removed.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

csThor
07-18-2004, 02:12 AM
Give me a break, DDT. What I am worried about is the waste of ressources (time and manpower) for oddities that add nothing to gameplay but merely please the mindless furball crowd while other key factors of the game (namely bugfixing, FM/DM tuning etc) get stuck on the high shelf ... "Sorry, no time" is the standard phrase here.

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ZG77_Nagual
07-18-2004, 07:57 AM
LOL

I'll be very happy with a good pacific simm. The only real what-ifs in FB are the yp80 (which saw more 'action' than the bearcat) and the go229. The I-185 perhaps - but I think it belongs as a tribute to it's superb designer - and it did fly some in the war.

I enjoy working out tactics for planes that actually saw action against their historical opponents.

What I find objectionable, personally, are these really very silly statements about how the developers don't want to build any good american planes or theres some kind of conspiracy or whatever. Have you guys flown a p40 or p39 in this simm? Or a p51 or p38 for that matter? In my opinion the p39 is the best all-round fighter in FB and it is american. The p40 will out-turn pretty much anything. The P63 - if you take the time to learn it, is another world-beater. I fly these online against all kinds of opponents (mostly 39, 63 or 190s - but occasionally the p40 or 51) so don't even try to tell me these are **** planes compaired to anything else or that the developer is biased against american planes. It's just ridiculous.

BlitzPig_DDT
07-18-2004, 08:33 AM
Get a clue Nagaul. I could point out all the ways you are wrong but, it would be an exercise in futility.


Thor, you just proved my point. "Waste or resources". Nice way to wrap up your controlling, greedy disposition. You want the game YOUR way, and feck everyone else. People like you suck beyond description.

Here's a hint - 1 or 2 planes will not waste your precious resources and preclude the scores of aircraft and ships that you try to make it seem like. You're making an a$$ out of yourself by suggesting otherwise.

This game would truly suck if you were incharge. Thank god that isn't the case and we have some fun, interesting, little known and almost never sim-modeled toys to play with - in addition to the most important types.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

csThor
07-18-2004, 12:44 PM
We've been here before DDT. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif If you can't discuss like an adult without having to refer to insults you should mayabe return to the sandbox and play with the kiddies. Case closed.

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Atomic_Marten
07-18-2004, 01:04 PM
Hmmm... lemme rethink http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

If someone wants to make some A/C that would satisfy game devs criteria they should be allow to make it. Such enthusiast were always appreciated (at least I appreciate 'em). And I personally love only WW2 A/C's but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't occasionally fly non-WW2's. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

BlitzPig_DDT
07-18-2004, 02:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by csThor:
We've been here before DDT. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif If you can't discuss like an adult without having to refer to insults you should mayabe return to the sandbox and play with the kiddies. Case closed.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Pot to kettle, come in kettle..... you're black, over.

You have to fall back on that "style" because I'm right. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

AA_Trouble4u
07-18-2004, 03:20 PM
I'm 99.9% sure that the Japanese were able to build their own version of the Me262. I don't know if it just made it to testing or if they were able to get it in production. Since it's unlikely you'd see an A bomb in the game the war could go on forever. include the Japanese version of the 262 and then you can add the bear and tiger cats

BlitzPig_DDT
07-18-2004, 03:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AA_Trouble4u:
I'm 99.9% sure that the Japanese were able to build their own version of the Me262. I don't know if it just made it to testing or if they were able to get it in production. Since it's unlikely you'd see an A bomb in the game the war could go on forever. include the Japanese version of the 262 and then you can add the bear and tiger cats<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The plan was to make the 262 smaller and lighter (while making the 163 larger to hold more fuel).

I would like to see those as well. But, what is up with this BS of non-sensical conditions? They were not even close to a full production run on that project. The F8F and F7F were squadron equiped and on their way to the front, mere days out. It's ridiculous to say that they must not be included unless aircraft that would have been months, if not a year or more, behind in real world development.

I will clarify, since many love to take things out of context and half read posts. I am not suggesting those IJAAF planes should be left out. Rather, I'd like to see them. But it's assinine to say that they should be a requirement to add the F7F or F8F.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

Aeronautico
07-18-2004, 04:03 PM
Oh... those F7F, F8F, F9F... and even that F5U of Gibbage. I'd love 'em! Provided most if not all of the important and actual ones are already in the game though.

Strange statement from Luthier, the creator of the BI-1 and the TB-4... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
A!

--------------------
Airplanes are now built to carry a pilot and a dog in the cockpit: the pilot's job is
to feed the dog, and the dog's job is to bite the pilot if he touches anything...

- Arlen Rens, Lockheed Martin test pilot

AA_Trouble4u
07-18-2004, 07:21 PM
I'm not trying to put any conditions or even be non-sensical, As I said, I wasn't positive on the details of the devolpment of Japan's Jet program. Only that they had had some sucsess. All I was saying is that If the war had gone on there is a possibility that Japan could have had fighters that would have out classed the allies even with the addition of the F-8.

I got to see a very small part of a program on the history channel the other night of the "Last Mission" which wasn't the A-bomb drop, The Japanese had not surrendered several days after the 2nd drop and there was a plan in the works to basically over throw the emperor and continue the war. The allies unaware of this had switched back to a major conventional bombing champain. The B-29s were in route to bomb Japan's last major oil refinery, That's when I fell asleep http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Either way I was just pointing out that in an imaginary world where the war can last beyond june of 45, The Japanese could have a fighter to compete with the new Cats.

As much as I would enjoy the last cats. I would much rather see P-61s, helldivers, devastators, PBYs etc in the game and flyable.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
what is up with this BS of non-sensical conditions? They were not even close to a full production run on that project. The F8F and F7F were _squadron equiped and on their way to the front, mere _days_ out._ It's ridiculous to say that they must not be included unless aircraft that would have been months, if not a year or more, behind in real world development.

I will clarify, since many love to take things out of context and half read posts. I am not suggesting those IJAAF planes should be left out. Rather, I'd like to see them. But it's assinine to say that they should be a requirement to add the F7F or F8F. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

CowboyTodd41
07-20-2004, 10:27 AM
My view is this, most of what you all are scared of is getting whooped in a dogfight online by someone in a superb fighter like a bearcat, which is understandable, every time my Bf-109G2 gets wholloped by a Ta-152 or Yk-9, I get a little unhappy, but it passes. The simple fact is, the majority of people who play Il2, play it offline. If you take a look at the total number sold, compared to the average number of players on HL or Ubi.com, you'll notice a large difference. I don't play online alot and I'm happy flying campaigns with nearly 90 plane long list that spans from 1936 all the way to 1946. If some one models the plane someone will fly it, having a Bearcat or Tigercat or a Shiden in a sim with this type of realism would be great, and plus most people wouldn't be a able to get you if their Bearcat since I'm sure it would be a hard plane to handle http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/Tgan92/vote.jpg

sugaki
07-20-2004, 11:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Heres my $.02 worth- By 1945, the Japanese really didn't have any effective aircraft to counter the Corsair, much less the Bearcat<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Squadrons equipped with late-war planes fought pretty much on par with corsairs. Think you're putting them on a much higher pedestal than what they should be.

As for "what-if" planes, I don't mind seeing them, so long as they had a reasonable possibility of combat if the war panned out differently. No Pancakes Gibbage http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I think some "what-if" planes makes sense within the context of PF, since the campaign will be "dynamic" and change depending on how well you do. I'd personanlly like to see the A6M8 Zero.

People trying to argue that the F8F deserves to be in the game more than the Reppu or A6M8... I don't buy it. What if the war extended a little longer? Yeah, the Reppu would've saw production if an earthquake didn't set back the factory too. Arguments can go on and on.

-Aki

BlitzPig_DDT
07-20-2004, 11:37 AM
Oh. My. God.

I can't beleive people are still on about this. Although, I probably should.

You are trying to equate all of the work involved in getting an aircraft fully built, tested, and produced to equipe at squadron strength, with a few days.

That is total BS. Give it up.

Nothing wrong with adding the Japanese designs, but don't give me that tired, trite, line of utter and amazingly obvious bull$hite that they *need* to be in if the F7F or F8F are in, or anything close to it.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

sugaki
07-20-2004, 02:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Nothing wrong with adding the Japanese designs, but don't give me that that they *need* to be in if the F7F or F8F are in, or anything close to it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I cut out your rhetoric, but I never said that Japanese planes need to be either. I also don't think F8F's don't need to be in the game if other Japanese "what-ifs" are in too. It's all up to those who make the game. It's a what-if, they can think of whatever hypothetical scenarios they want. Historical realism becomes more of a moot point.

-Aki

WUAF_Badsight
07-21-2004, 12:57 AM
jesus DDT

wuts yer problem

you can see CS_Thors point cant you ?!?!?!?

FB has the 109 Z & the Zero & the YP80 but is lacking planes that should have been in FB from version ONE point OH

i.e. the JU-88 , the PE2 family

highly important ETO / finnish war theater medium bombers for these short distance maps we have in FB

look at what Thos saying ....... the more historical , most used planes first & foremost

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-21-2004, 01:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
It's ridiculous to say that they must not be included unless aircraft that would have been months, if not a year or more, behind in real world development.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

im sure you understand the concept of " gameplay balance "

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

p1ngu666
07-21-2004, 09:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by csThor:
Give me a break, DDT. What I am worried about is the waste of ressources (time and manpower) for oddities that add nothing to gameplay but merely please the mindless furball crowd while other key factors of the game (namely bugfixing, FM/DM tuning etc) get stuck on the high shelf ... "Sorry, no time" is the standard phrase here.

______________________________

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csThor's skins @ Il2skins.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

if they add nothing to the gameplay, why do ppl fly them?

but id like to see the the late war mad experienment ones tbh, for me its more interesting than another 10whine varient for example.

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!

Hoarmurath
07-21-2004, 10:35 AM
People fly the what if planes? Do you often go to HL? go and have a look at the number of servers where you can fly a jet. Go in the servers where the SPB zveno is available, and see how many people use it.

What if planes can be fun, but IMO they should not be a priority. And bearcats and tigercats are under these categories, as are the tempest II, the de havilland hornet, and many others. I think we would like to have more of the planes who actually saw combat, so it would be easier to fly historic missions, instead of what if ones.

http://hoarmurath.free.fr/images/sighoar.jpg (http://hoarmurath.free.fr/)

Sakai9745
07-21-2004, 12:04 PM
Why wonder about the Bearcat's inclusion when we can all go OWN one. I found this ad yesterday:

http://www.controller.com/listings/forsale/detail.asp?guid=A8D0A32DDFFD4D78BAFAB4E539DD0003&pcid=1113082&etid=1&OHID=1069527&setype=1&nh=0&listURL=MMAN

Keeping it a fractional ownership is the key, friends. All we need is 10 volunteers at $185K each! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Ummmm... can anyone spot me a loan? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Cheers,

Al - SF, Calif

"Defense Dept regrets to inform you that your sons are dead cause they were stupid."

[This message was edited by Sakai9745 on Wed July 21 2004 at 11:13 AM.]

Sakai9745
07-21-2004, 12:15 PM
Tigercat too! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Who knew?

http://www.controller.com/listings/forsale/detail.asp?guid=A8D0A32DDFFD4D78BAFAB4E539DD0003&pcid=1113082&etid=1&OHID=1075454&setype=1&nh=0&listURL=MMAN

Al - SF, Calif

"Defense Dept regrets to inform you that your sons are dead cause they were stupid."

BlitzPig_DDT
07-21-2004, 04:53 PM
Badsight - "should" be in the game? Give me an effing break man. Don't try to act like the planes you happen to want are somehow inherently more valuable or in any way necessary.

"Game play balance"? Yeah, I'm familiar with it. It's something used for arcade games. Simulators care nothing of "balance". The vechiles/craft are what they are and that's it. The players can create their own so called "balance" out of the available equipment if they choose to.

BTW - interesting note, it could be argued that it would be proper game balance to include the He-100, and that it should be included (both because we have the I-185), yet it's not. So either Oleg has a different take on both, or he just doesn't care.

The Bearcat and Tigercat were kick *** planes, awesome to look at, have never been included in a 'sim' to date, would be vastly enjoyed by the masses, and are highly sought. Furthermore, they both meet all requirements laid down by Oleg w/r/t what can be included, and do so far better than any of the "what ifs" being cited as required counterparts. (and again, I point to the He-100)

We still have both Hellcats, and both Wildcats and the Wilder Wildcat (and if we're lucky, the Wildcatfish), so it won't be the end of the world if 2 of the most awesome and beautiful prop powered warplanes ever created don't grace the skies of 1C:Maddox's PTO, but it would be a shame none-the-less that the US-haters, and no-imagination-sim-commies cried loudly enough to bar them.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

Atomic_Marten
07-21-2004, 05:41 PM
Hey Blitz you are right as far as game balance is concerned. It is occur to me that if anyone whine about some plane, than he should change it for some better plane(best solution to avoid losing nerves http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif). No matter what country used it in WW2.

BTW could u tell me about that first flag (first from the left). I'm unfamiliar with it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

p1ngu666
07-21-2004, 05:54 PM
i think the he100 model isnt finished, started by a 3rd party.

i got some more spb skins in the pipeline too, guess ill haveto make so coops aswell http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!

Sakai9745
07-21-2004, 06:11 PM
I agree with Blitz on the inclusion of these two Grummans based on the fact that they were in existence during the war (albeit they didn't see combat), and it would be a hoot to see what they were capable of. I too have never seen them in any combat sim to date, so their dues are definitely due.

At the same time, however, I can see why the balance issue is a problem for some, and I imagine this stems from the Tigercat. Was there any WW2 Japanese aircraft that could match the F7F-3 in terms of firepower alone (4 X 20mm cannons & 4 X.50cal MGs http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif)? Even the aforementioned HE 100 would have a time catching the TCat, lagging behind in service ceiling, range, armament, and slightly in speed.

Al - SF, Calif

"Defense Dept regrets to inform you that your sons are dead cause they were stupid."

sugaki
07-21-2004, 06:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
you can see CS_Thors point cant you ?!?!?!?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He can't and won't see any other point besides his own, so don't bother.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>"Game play balance"? Yeah, I'm familiar with it. It's something used for arcade games. Simulators care nothing of "balance". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, how very sensationalistic, like the rest of your posts. By saying "arcade," the word sim players despise, you hope to polarize the issue and bury it in the ground.

Gameplay balance is done in every single game, sim or not. Hence you don't have missions with 3-hour flights with no time compression, don't have missions with truly realistic AA shooting thousands of shots in the sky.

Airplane selection is a huge part of gameplay balance, especially for non "What-if" planes. For example, you basically flew Shidenkais toward the end of the Japanese campaign in CFS2, but they were far less available than the A6M5 Zero in real life. For balancing, you can just switch over--not what real pilots experienced... the majority had to live with an A6M5.

Gameplay is balanced for every single game and genre--it's ludicrous and overly idealistic to think that just because a game is a "sim" that it's not somehow balanced.

So please stop asserting that there's some logically undeniable reason that the F8F should be in the game, nor globalize it as something universally "sought [by the masses]," nor criticize anybody who doesn't adhere to what you believe. You just like the plane and want it in.

BlitzPig_DDT
07-21-2004, 07:39 PM
Damn. What a simply magnificent display of a double standard.

YOU argue against it because YOU want other planes. Period.

YOUR preferred planes are just that. As I had to point out to Badsight (aptly named in this case) I must also spell out for you. You 3 go on like pompous a$$es about "well *I* know what is important, and if you don't agree you are just pushing a personal agenda, and clearly I would never do such a thing. I'm superior afterall, don'cha know." http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Let's see, where to next? It's a veritable buffet of ridiculous nonsense.

Let's move on to "balance", shall we?

"Balance" is about evening odds. You must know that. Your posts are too carefully worded to be that dense. Warm up times, engine start procedure, checklists, ATC, flight time, and everything else has nothing to do with "balance".

Best of all, after that a$$inine remark, you went right back to what you knew it was about. Holding up CFS2's campaign as an example.

In a DF server, every plane is 'crunch all you want, we'll make more'. Not much can be done with that unless the devs give map makers another switch to throw. COOPs and single missions can very easily restrict planes to known quantities however. CFS DIDN'T, because CFS ISN'T a sim. It's a glorified arcade game. (Don't even try to tell me otherwise when you can do a split S under full power in a Hellcat and lose no more than 500 feet.) M$ WANTED to appeal to the casual gamer, and set up their campaign appropriately.

You all are sim-commies. You want everyone to suffer with the plane set YOU want and berate us for wanting to exercise some imagination (something none of you have). Then try to spin it back on us when we show you what **** your comments are. However, I'm not gonna be swayed by that cr@p. You might as well just get bent.

You first cry about when it was made or how far along it was when the war ended. Then you cry about production #s. Then you cry about wether it was used in combat or not. Then you reveal at least one of your true motives and cry about having some dream plane of your own to do fight against the threat you percieve.

It's a pathetic game of spin. Constantly changing your argument every time you are countered like nobody will notice. As bad as friggin' politicians.


In closing - planes are planes, sims model that, including what was available in the set time limit. Period. Balance is not a concern. Else we could argue for everything on Luft '46. AND, balance is up to the players. Mix the planeset you like in the missions you make. Stop trying to hold everyone else back. It's sickening.

The arguement that '46 planes are required to have planes that *were ready to go* is stupid. Give it up. It hurts your already bad image.

And finally - drop the pompous bull**** that you are inherently more important, or superior, to everyone else and have some intrinsic knowledge of what is needed. Get real and be a man. Admit that you don't want people to have the fun they want to have, or that you just don't want to get your *** handed to you by such bad *** US planes online.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

BlitzPig_DDT
07-21-2004, 07:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Atomic_Marten:
BTW could u tell me about that first flag (first from the left). I'm unfamiliar with it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's DDT. There's about 60 BlitzPigs. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif www.blitzpigs.com (http://www.blitzpigs.com)

To answer your question, read this thread - http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=124101424&r=390103424 (it got hijacked. lol)

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

grist
07-21-2004, 09:49 PM
I thought the Confederate battle flag was square instead of rectangular?

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/9674/F16PentagonSmall.jpg

Yellonet
07-22-2004, 07:20 AM
I hope they never include Bearcat or Tigercat in PF.

They were never used in WW2 so there is no sensible reason for them to be in a sim about WW2.

These planes would fit in a Corea-sim. Not in PF.

Put effort in making this a historical sim instead of a what-if-sim.


- Yellonet

McCallaway
07-22-2004, 07:32 AM
I see your point DDT, but why are you so aggressive ? I'll be glad to have any plane that can be included. But I must admit that if I could choose I prefer planes that saw combat than planes that were close to it. I'm not saying that because I'm anti-american or because I wouldn't stand seeing Americans having so good planes (you should really drop this conspiracy theory). Just because there are so many planes to make, American or not, good or not, that will be way more useful in Historical scenarios than a Bearcat.

But if we got the Bearcat, I'll fly it (and be shot by it) gladly http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Yellonet
07-22-2004, 07:50 AM
I also doubt that very many people would fly these planes, just look at the what-if's we have today in FB. Bearcat/Tigercat would probably just be used in air-quake matches because of their superior performance http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif


- Yellonet

BlitzPig_DDT
07-22-2004, 08:34 AM
McCallaway ^ that is why I'm so "aggressive".

You don't see them complaining about the Ki-84C, or even the I-185. Don't you find that interesting?

Don't you find it more interesting that when they get slapped they then switch over to "well then (insert paper only plane here) needs to be included as well"?

Notice how he is so delusional that he claims nobody would fly it? (nevermind the popularity of the La5FN, La7, Ki84, and all the griping of the lack of 262 availability online) Best of all, notice that he also, simultaneously claimes that it will be prevalent, AND that anyone who would fly it is inferior to him.

You call it a "conspiracy theory", but they prove it time and again.

Those bastards simly HATE the idea that someone might be having fun in away different then their ill-concieved notions about historical re-enactment.

They DESPISE the idea that a US plane of such performance being in the game. (as demonstrated above)

And they LOATH the idea of getting their asses shot off online by said plane.

They want everyone held back, and forced to have only the same potential they have(/want). Forced equality to the lowest common denominator - communism (in practice, not theory).

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

Hoarmurath
07-22-2004, 08:43 AM
DDT, i dedicate to you my signature link... enjoy http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

http://hoarmurath.free.fr/images/sighoar.jpg (http://hoarmurath.free.fr/files/internationale-ru.mp3)
56Kers are strongly advised to NOT click on my signature http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

McCallaway
07-22-2004, 09:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
McCallaway ^ that is why I'm so "aggressive".
...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I don't read so many things in their statements. But anyway nobody here have his word to say on what plane will or won't be in PF. If you want a "What If" plane, the best thing to do is to model it and ask Oleg to include it, like what was done for the I-185. Then if somebody comes here and whines because "you should have done another plane", he will indeed just be stupid.

And you seem to put everything around performance and Quake-Like dogfights. I'm not sure but you somehow sound like someone who wants this plane so that the USA will have the best plane in the game.

ZG77_Nagual
07-22-2004, 09:33 AM
the reason i don't talk about Ki84s is I don't have much trouble waxing them in a p39n.
DDT, mate, you are leaking badly.

BlitzPig_DDT
07-22-2004, 09:35 AM
Actually, I'm a Grumman freak, and that is why I want them in. They meet all the requirements, but people piss and moan about it. Clearly they have reasons for it, even if they aren't consciously aware of them. Nothing happens without a reason. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what that reason is. It does, however, take a skeptical mind set.

I like DF servers, yes. But mainly because I like instant action. If I wanted to stare at the scenery scrolling slowly by on my monitor, I would play M$FS. Long missions offline are ok because of time compression. But COOPs are great and we spend most of our time in COOPs. A well made COOP will have quick action and just take all the other stuff (engine start, take off, boring flight to the target area, etc) assumed and let the players get right to the heart of the matter. Time is a precious thing, really.

You will notice, if you go back over my posts, here and elsewhere, I want all planes. Even the ones "they" claim are necessary. But it is still staggeringly assinine to hear them say that they are "necessary" in order to have the Grummans. Nothing they can try to back that up with has a leg to stand on.

See, here's the thing, IF their attitude was across the board, there's a very good chance we'd not have the I-185 now. However, it's not across the board, so there wasn't any real fuss made over the matter, and as a result, we all benefitted by having a little more possibility with which to utilize our imagination.

Notice that more than a few of the people who are *****ing about these planes also ***** about the idea of a combined AEP/PF? Same thing. They are against flexibility and letting others do things that fall outside THEIR ridiculous concepts of "historical re-enactment". They really are so full of themselves that they think they really know best and everyone should be *forced* to be confined within the limits they desire.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

McCallaway
07-22-2004, 09:57 AM
baaah double post...

McCallaway
07-22-2004, 09:57 AM
There I agree DDT.

Except on the "If I wanted to stare at the scenery scrolling slowly" part. I like to fly to target and back http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ZG77_Nagual
07-22-2004, 10:30 AM
Not up to me - but I'm definitely down with the grumman thing. My uncle flew all of them - esp f4u4s in Korea - also f9fs. but bearcats, wildcats, hellcats as well (not combat for the last three).

It's just knowing the demands on the team I hope they'll focus on the what was over the what if's. Personally I'm very happy to see the I185. It's a russian built simm - and Polikparov is one of the great unsung designers.

I personally like flying planes that are not quite state-of-the-art. I'd rather lose in a plane thats not all that easy to fly, than win in something like a ki84. I do like taking up the occasional 262 - but that one's not all that easy.

Sakai9745
07-22-2004, 10:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> So please stop asserting that there's some logically undeniable reason that the F8F should be in the game.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To be honest, I think we're all guilty of this. At present, I can't think of a single person that hasn't at one time or another voiced what plane(s) they wanted in this game. I've heard about Rufes, Wildcats, Corsairs, JU88s, Mitchells, Venturas. And there has been many posts pointing out why it would be a logical choice. It's also extended to maps, nations, ships, specific battles.... the list goes on and on.

My point is that Blitz's desire to see the Bearcat and/or Tigercat included in PF is no different from the remining endless stream of requests. He wants to see them in... what's the harm in the request? And even if either or both make it in, no big deal. In a historically-based mission, they won't be up there at all, and in multiplayer servers, those who don't wish to tangle with such advanced machines will probably ban them; no worries. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Al - SF, Calif

"Defense Dept regrets to inform you that your sons are dead cause they were stupid."

Yellonet
07-22-2004, 10:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
You don't see them complaining about the Ki-84C, or even the I-185. Don't you find that interesting? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
These planes are already in the game. And to my knowledge I havn't been complaining at all. Also I have the feeling that you wouldn't mind someone complaining about those aircraft.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Don't you find it more interesting that when they get slapped they then switch over to "well then (insert paper only plane here) needs to be included as well"? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Who are "they"? Not me anyway.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Notice how he is so delusional that he claims nobody would fly it? (nevermind the popularity of the La5FN, La7, Ki84, and all the griping of the lack of 262 availability online) Best of all, notice that he also, simultaneously claimes that it will be prevalent, AND that anyone who would fly it is inferior to him. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not sure why you take these planes as examples as they all saw combat in the war. The Bearcat did not.

And WHERE did you get the idea that I think I'm better than someone flying a Bearcat??

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> They DESPISE the idea that a US plane of such performance being in the game. (as demonstrated above) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's US against the world, right?

Sure, I would hate to have good US planes. I only want the axis to have good planes. You'd really love it if I really meant that huh? I have nothing against the US having good planes nor am I against any other country having good planes. I'm probably going to fly mostly american aircraft as I do in FB, so you can quit your your-an-anti-american BS.

I have nothing against high performance at all.

The thing I have something against is adding planes that DID NOT PARTICIPATE IN THE WAR to the game.

How do you justify adding these planes to the game? Why not add a F-86 a F-4 and a F-18 while you're at it? It's basically the same idea.


The rest of your statements are only offensive so I wont honor them with a reply. I guess you're the kind of person that still refers to russians as "reds" "commies" or at best "soviets".

Why can't you keep the conversation at a polite level?


- Yellonet

Hoarmurath
07-22-2004, 11:18 AM
If you want planes made by third party to be included like bearcats, tigercats, no... not flying pancakes, too late. Why not, third party do what they want, this is not a problem...

If you want development team to make those planes instead of earlier planes, then i don't agree, i think they should better use their time by focussing on planes that saw most use in the pacific theater.

http://hoarmurath.free.fr/images/sighoar.jpg (http://hoarmurath.free.fr/files/internationale-ru.mp3)
56Kers are strongly advised to NOT click on my signature http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BlitzPig_DDT
07-22-2004, 11:53 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Proven right, yet again. Thanks Yellow, it means a lot. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

Just to clear the air here, I don't want your attempt at spin control to get too far out of hand. You must know that you are part of a group, a group that was not "formed" by any consensus, rather merely by happenstance, and is in fact, merely a categorization. No single member of said group will exhibit all traits that the group itself, as a collective whole, does.

Seriously, I really hope it's just a matter of you BSing to try to twist things around. It would be sad indeed if that weren't the case.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellonet:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
You don't see them complaining about the Ki-84C, or even the I-185. Don't you find that interesting? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
These planes are already in the game. And to my knowledge I havn't been complaining at all. Also I have the feeling that you wouldn't mind someone complaining about _those_ aircraft.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah. Yes, of course. "already in the game". Right.

Nevermind that the 84C never saw combat. Nevermind that there were like half a dozen or so 185s that had only the briefest of combat trials. Nevermind that people DO (you know, people that are lumped together with you because they share similar behavior) complain about them, their use, and their availability in servers.

HOWEVER, there was no be push to prevent them, like you restrictive, foul, no-imagination, commie bastards are trying to do with these. Like it or not, most people tend to LIKE choice, and would rather not be restricted to what YOU might deign acceptable for them to use.


(I haven't been complaining at all he says. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif Ack! Stop! I can't breath! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Don't you find it more interesting that when they get slapped they then switch over to "well then (insert paper only plane here) needs to be included as well"? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Who are "they"? Not me anyway.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

See above.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Notice how he is so delusional that he claims nobody would fly it? (nevermind the popularity of the La5FN, La7, Ki84, and all the griping of the lack of 262 availability online) Best of all, notice that he also, simultaneously claimes that it will be prevalent, AND that anyone who would fly it is inferior to him. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not sure why you take these planes as examples as they all saw combat in the war. The Bearcat did not.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ki-84C did not. There were precious few of all the rest. And they fit the qualifications of the "air quake" beasts that you kvetched about the Bearcat fitting. lol Yet another false argument that you are trying to side step when convenient.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And WHERE did you get the idea that I think I'm better than someone flying a Bearcat??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh please. Everything about your entire tone, all of your tactics, and all of your wishes CLEARLY show how you think yourself "above" the use of the Bearcat. The rest is a simple and obvious matter of association.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>They DESPISE the idea that a US plane of such performance being in the game. (as demonstrated above) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's US against the world, right?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

More often than not. Even on these fora. It's unfortunate, but it's the way it is.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>_Sure, I would hate to have good US planes. I only want the axis to have good planes._ You'd really love it if I really meant that huh? I have nothing against the US having good planes nor am I against any other country having good planes. I'm probably going to fly mostly american aircraft as I do in FB, so you can quit your your-an-anti-american BS.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

See? You still think it's all about YOU. Another of my points all along.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I have nothing against high performance at all.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif V
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Bearcat/Tigercat would probably just be used in air-quake matches because of their superior performance http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thus, I repeat - http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

You aren't as slick as you must think you are.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The thing I have something against is adding planes that DID NOT PARTICIPATE IN THE WAR to the game.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh? Why weren't you voicing such a strong opinion against the other planes that we have since had added to FB/AEP when we had plenty of advance warning? Why aren't you lobbying so hard against the planes being developed for future inclusion?

I suppose then that the Meteor would be right out! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Hate to inform you but, Oleg is running this show. He has said "anything up to '46" is acceptable so long as there is sufficient information available for pit and FM/DM.

This is why you shift tactics. You KNOW both planes were fully produced, AND equipped to squadron strength or greater, in '45(!). So you can't use that as an excuse. Instead, you blithely ignore the fact that '46 planes are accepted, that precedent has long been set, and that they are actually desired and would be valuable additions, and proceed to scream "didn't see combat!". Best of all, you simultaneously ignore the likes of Sugaki demanding counters in the form of planes that weren't even built, let alone "see combat". (Though the Meteor is the best example, as it's clearly something we "SHOULD" have. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif )


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>How do you justify adding these planes to the game? Why not add a F-86 a F-4 and a F-18 while you're at it? It's basically the same idea.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Were you born this much of an ***, or did you work hard at it? Either way, it's really worked out for ya. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Read it again - F7F, F8F, equipped to squadron strength DURING the war.

Now, after you do that, preferably several times, I'd love to be entertained by one of your grand BS stories about how that equates to your examples above. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The rest of your statements are only offensive so I wont honor them with a reply.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Of course you find them such.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I guess you're the kind of person that still refers to russians as "reds" "commies" or at best "soviets".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Depends. WWII? Absolutely. Guess what....they WERE! lol!



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Why can't you keep the conversation at a polite level?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

When you quit the assinine maneuvering, double speak, flip-flopping, stupid counter"argument" use, and pompous crying about how we should all be forced to deal with what YOU want (while trying to tell us the $hit you are selling us is actually shinola), then maybe I might have a reason to. You are far from polite, you are not interested in converstion, and this is another, transparent attempt, to twist everything around like a politician. Spare me. Spare us all. Please.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

ZG77_Nagual
07-22-2004, 02:13 PM
I do think it unreasonble to compare the bearcat with planes that did actually see combat - I 185 for example. For sure she is the apex of piston engined dogfighters and would be nice to see if only for that reason.

That said once PF comes out we'll be seeing a shift to BoB.

The fact that PF will be both an add-on and standalone is good news for the possibility of new planes since support for aep/fb will be extended - rather than displaced by a new simm. But BoB and the technical evolution it represents is definitely on the Horizon - so the Bearcat is in a race against time for modeling and inclusion.

Yellonet
07-22-2004, 02:41 PM
DDT, you have now officially been labeled a complete idiot. Not only is your reasoning faulty, you apparently have an urge to re-state your oppinions instead of answering reasonable questions. I and a few others will probably not take you seriously any longer. You are just a troll, simple as that.


- Yellonet

[This message was edited by Yellonet on Thu July 22 2004 at 02:16 PM.]

F16_Fatboy
07-22-2004, 03:01 PM
What took you so long?

FLSTF

http://img41.photobucket.com/albums/v125/F16_fatboy/Album1/sig_fatboy.jpg

Yellonet
07-22-2004, 03:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F16_Fatboy:
What took you so long?

FLSTF

http://img41.photobucket.com/albums/v125/F16_fatboy/Album1/sig_fatboy.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I wonder how many of DDTs posts are pure trolling... maybe the Ivanator should start being a little more liberal with the banning http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif


- Yellonet

BlitzPig_DDT
07-22-2004, 03:44 PM
Still at it Yello? Why? Why do you persist in this ridiculous game of spin? I've answered all your questions, and now you claim I haven't and accuse me of trolling. Continued use of the politicians handbook I see - when all points are countered, and there's nowhere else to turn, try defamation.

Disgusting, and yet, funny as hell because you continue to prove me right, despite your best efforts. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

Gibbage1
07-22-2004, 05:37 PM
I should model a Bearcat just to piss everyone off http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Baco-ECV56
07-22-2004, 06:11 PM
My Take:
If Gibbage does it, Pleaso so prety Please...
Now if the dev, guy ho is supposed to give us a flyable devastator (just as an example), switches to the Bearcat or Tiguer cat and we get a Nioce bearcat but no devastaor... Then I oppose.

If we get every mayor player + every Groumand Cat there was: GRATE.

But What I don´t want to see aggain, is what happened in FB: we have what if jets, lots of 45/46, but no twin engine bomber for the alies...
No way to run a (historical oriented) on line realistic war that would be fun for both sides (AK. Balanced)

But that would onlly aply for the dev. team, 3d parties can do whatever they want, since its their time and joy, and we can´t convince them of doing the planes we like http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.


I mean be reasonable. What good would a bearcat do right now:
- Coop against AI (no challeng at all)
- On line war (forgetit no one would fly and have fun on the opposing side)
- Dogfight (you get FU8 vs yes.. FU8) fun yes.. inmersion 0% dull on the long run...

Sorry man, I am very much in favor of getting it but not taking away resources form other planes that would be more "usefull".

SO I love the Bearcat yes, but I want a lot of other planes done first, nothing more naothing less.

If we get the mayor players in the first release and the first patch includes a Bearcat then GRATE.

sugaki
07-22-2004, 07:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>My point is that Blitz's desire to see the Bearcat and/or Tigercat included in PF is no different from the remining endless stream of requests. He wants to see them in... what's the harm in the request?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The difference is he childishly blasts anyone who doesn't agree with his view.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>_YOU_ argue _against_ it because _YOU_ _want_ other planes. Period.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll scratch and ignore the rest of your post because you make poor arguments, but if you noticed I never said that I didn't want the Bearcat, nor that I wanted a different plane instead. I'd love to see the Bearcat. Whoops. The problem is you never really read or understand what people are saying, and go off on rants that go nowhere.

-Aki

Sakai9745
07-22-2004, 08:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Sorry man, I am very much in favor of getting it but not taking away resources form other planes that would be more "usefull".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look at it this way, friend: If the F7F does make it in, no matter what I fly on the opposing side, you're going to get that beer stake! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

In all seriousness, though, I've reviewed the posts very carefully and can understand Blitz's frustration. No one likes to be told that their input is invalid, especially as repeatedly as it has been stated here. Much as when I first tried to vie for the B-29 and got a load of not-necessary, not-appropriate, and not-if-it's-presence-takes-away-my-(insert fav plane here)...

Now I am not condoning the brutal directness of the replies (sorry, Blitz, but it could be toned down a few notches http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif), but at the same time, I can understand the motivation. No one likes to be told that their wishlist is crud, whatever the reason may be.

Al - SF, Calif

"Defense Dept regrets to inform you that your sons are dead cause they were stupid."

necrobaron
07-22-2004, 08:12 PM
I can understand(and agree with) the sentiment that including the more relevant planes of the Pacific war should take priority over planes such as the Bearcat or Tigercat but I strongly disagree that these planes should never be in PF.

Some people seem to forget online play isn't everything. In my view, including planes like the Bearcat or the Shiden gives mission builders the freedom and flexibility to create "what-if" missions and flex their imaginations a bit. Why needlessly limit them? I like "what-if" missions so long as they're believable. It's not so hard to imagine scenarios where the Pacific war lasted for months longer than what it really did. What if the decision to drop the nukes had not been made? What if the nukes had somehow failed to detonate or had not convinced Hirohito's men to unconditionally surrender? I'm all for historical accuracy, but I like to explore the
alternative scenarios from time to time.

If you don't like these "what-if" scenarios or their planes, then simply don't fly them. There's no reason to prevent others from enjoying them.

"Not all who wander are lost."

Sakai9745
07-22-2004, 08:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If you don't like these "what-if" scenarios or their planes, then simply don't fly them. There's no reason to prevent others from enjoying them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

My sentiment exactly.

Al - SF, Calif

"Defense Dept regrets to inform you that your sons are dead cause they were stupid."

BlitzPig_DDT
07-22-2004, 08:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sugaki:
The difference is he childishly blasts anyone who doesn't agree with his view.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you truly that blind? No, that can't be possible. This is another poor reversal attempt in the true political style to which you ascribe. Poor because it's so transparent. A shame really. Not really evolved from a school yard "I know you are but what am I?" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I'll scratch and ignore the rest of your post because you make poor arguments<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Obviously you will. Because I *****-slapped you so hard you don't know how to respond. Every point you made I countered. And did it to the 9s. I've always been one for overkill, and people like you show that it's often necessary. lol Classicly you brush yourself off with a "I meant to do that" look and claim that the arguments were "flawed". You know that it would be impossible for you to even attempt to address them without stuffing the rest of your legs in your gob.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>but if you noticed I never said that I didn't want the Bearcat, nor that I wanted a different plane instead.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, but you DID state that. Both, as a matter of fact. - <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>People trying to argue that the F8F deserves to be in the game more than the Reppu or A6M8... I don't buy it. What if the war extended a little longer? Yeah, the Reppu would've saw production if an earthquake didn't set back the factory too. Arguments can go on and on.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Those words show that you are of the position that said Grummans should not be present unless or until the afforementioned Japanese planes are released.

Yes, you worded it ambiguously (like a real politician), but the meaning is clear. It doesn't take a rocket scientist. (just an IT geek apparently. lol)


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I'd love to see the Bearcat. Whoops. The problem is you never really read or understand what people are saying, and go off on rants that go nowhere.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol Love it. "that go nowhere". Nowhere except shredding your sub-par statements and counter examples. That is in fact exactly *why* you say they go nowhere. lol

For example, consider how easy it is to turn back and say "oh but I would love to see it in". It's just another cover up. Old hat for such a practiced hand as yourself.

IOW - you constant dancing on the issue, and vapid attempts to elevate yourself thus hoping to save face by eliminating the need to respond have completely bored out all of your words, leaving them utterly hollow and contemptable. It is truly pitiable, but unfortunately your pride will almost certainly prevent you from accepting the truth and instead cause you to continue your obtuse behavior.

I await your next cookie cutter post claiming anything you don't wish to deal with as invalid, to prove me right.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-22-2004, 11:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
Badsight - "_should_" be in the game? Give me an effing break man. Don't try to act like the planes _you_ happen to _want_ are somehow inherently more valuable or in any way necessary.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


hey Dummie ..... get a clue B4 you dribble ..... PE2 , Hs129 , Mc202 , JU88

these DESERVED to be the first planes worked on but instead its been up 3rd party to get them on their way

they were HIGHLY critical to the ETO

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:

"Game play balance"? Yeah, I'm familiar with it. It's something used for __arcade__ games. Simulators care nothing of "balance". The vechiles/craft are what they are and that's it. The players can create their own so called "balance" out of the available equipment if they choose to.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

well thats just a cop-out . . . . if 1 side has overwhelming firepower then the game looses balance

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
We still have both Hellcats, and both Wildcats and the Wilder Wildcat (and if we're lucky, the Wildcatfish), so it won't be the end of the world if 2 of the most awesome and beautiful prop powered warplanes ever created don't grace the skies of 1C:Maddox's PTO, but it would be a shame none-the-less that the US-haters, and no-imagination-sim-commies cried loudly enough to bar them.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i dont think that anyone has said that they should never be included ..... if your precious Grumman attitude wasnt so toucy & egotistical you might see that people at this forum are asking that the most important planes be given priority

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
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WUAF_Badsight
07-22-2004, 11:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
Damn. What a simply magnificent display of a double standard.

_YOU_ argue _against_ it because _YOU_ _want_ other planes. Period.

YOUR preferred planes are just that. As I had to point out to Badsight (aptly named in this case) I must also spell out for you. You 3 go on like pompous a$$es about "well *I* know what is important, and if you don't agree you are just pushing a personal agenda, and clearly I would never do such a thing. I'm superior afterall, don'cha know." http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

if you went so wrong & such a dumba$$ all at the same time i could just ignore that

i too want the Bearcat to be included into FB/PF

BADLY

but your stupid ego gets in the way of your brains ability to reason so it seems

lets look at CS_Thors statements :

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by csThor:

I would not mind a few oddities if they came in a sensible package with other "oddities", perhaps a few maps if necessary just to create a believable environment. But only after the historically important planes are there, after the gaps in the planeset and mapset were closed.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

now you got into a huff & ranted & raved like a moron

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
"Thor, you just proved my point. "Waste or resources". Nice way to wrap up your controlling, greedy disposition. You want the game YOUR way, and feck everyone else. People like you suck beyond description"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

good going , prehaps next time to actually take the time to read what was posted

while your doing that go look at page 2 of this thread

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-22-2004, 11:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
Actually, I'm a Grumman freak, and that is why I want them in. They meet all the requirements, but people piss and moan about it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

are you mental ?

what part of "saw combat" dont you get ?

the Bearcat was a WW2 plane

but it played absolutly ZERO part in WW2

at least the P-80 did sorties while WW2 was still going

your jerking off m8 , get off the horse cause its high

ppl here are wanting the game to be more complete than FB was at realease before time is given to the late war fantasy stuff

answer me this ....... why isnt the JU88 already done .... it only was the LW's MOST important bomber ......

why isnt there a medium VVS bomber flyable in FB yet when we have the i-185 & GO229 useable ?

THIS kind of cituation is what people in this forum dont want to see repeated

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WOLFMondo
07-23-2004, 01:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
I hear the Helldiver is not flyable...at least not right off the bat, and the Firefly probably nobody's ever heard of despite being the first Commonwealth aircraft to fly over Tokyo (and bomb it evidently) as well destroying Japanese oil and several other major exploits. Flown by the Fleet Air Arm.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bah! I've even seen one flying!:Phttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://bill.nickdafish.com/sig/mondo.jpg
Wolfgaming.net. Where the Gameplay is teamplay (http://www.wolfgaming.net)
Home of WGNDedicated

McCallaway
07-23-2004, 02:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
I should model a Bearcat just to piss everyone off http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do it ! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

F16_Fatboy
07-23-2004, 03:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
I should model a Bearcat just to piss everyone off http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You excell at that!!

To the rest; Don´t feed the pig and garbage beacuse there is no argumnts what so ever that will move them in any direction so just drop the conversation.

FLSTF

http://img41.photobucket.com/albums/v125/F16_fatboy/Album1/sig_fatboy.jpg

WOLFMondo
07-23-2004, 04:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
Actually, I'm a Grumman freak, and that is why I want them in. They meet all the requirements, but people piss and moan about it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

are you mental ?

what part of "saw combat" dont you get ?

the Bearcat was a WW2 plane

but it played absolutly ZERO part in WW2

at least the P-80 did sorties while WW2 was still going

your jerking off m8 , get off the horse cause its high

ppl here are wanting the game to be more complete than FB was at realease before time is given to the late war fantasy stuff

answer me this ....... why isnt the JU88 already done .... it only was the LW's _MOST_ important bomber ......

why isnt there a medium VVS bomber flyable in FB yet when we have the i-185 & GO229 useable ?

_THIS_ kind of cituation is what people in this forum dont want to see repeated

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

100% agree there.

I'd love to see the Bearcat, Tigercat, Spitfire Mk24, Seafire Mk47 and the Seafury vs La9's...in Korean War sim, not a WW2 sim.

http://bill.nickdafish.com/sig/mondo.jpg
Wolfgaming.net. Where the Gameplay is teamplay (http://www.wolfgaming.net)
Home of WGNDedicated

Yellonet
07-23-2004, 04:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I'd love to see the Bearcat, Tigercat, Spitfire Mk24, Seafire Mk47 and the Seafury vs La9's...in Korean War sim, not a WW2 sim.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Totally agree.


- Yellonet

WUAF_Badsight
07-23-2004, 06:53 AM
well . . . .

the Bearcat & Tigercat(?) didnt get used in the Korean War

but they both are WW2 planes http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

BlitzPig_DDT
07-23-2004, 08:13 AM
Hey no-sight, you forget your medication or something? About the bottom of page 3 you snapped and have been pms'ing bad. Your cootch really hurting or something?

The YP-80 never saw combat. The P-80 that "flew sorties", never saw combat.

Now "impact on the war" is the next twist? Seeing combat isn't working so now you have to resort to "had an impact"? LMAO!

I guess that's the pre-emptive move to suddenly make the Meteor ok, huh? (as anyone with half a brain realizes that it is a valid addition to the series) http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/laugh.gif


There is one sov bomber that is lacking 'pit data necessary to include it as flyable according to Oleg, and IIRC, it's the Pe-2. You'll have to ask him why a soviet plane wasn't included. You're gonna look like a real a$$ (well, ok, even MORE of one) if you try to argue that he would chose to not add an important soviet plane for any reason other than not being able to.

Beyond which, again, you proved my point. Many of them actually. YOU want those planes. YOU claim they are "important", and they "should" be in at the expense of others. WRONG. You WANT them in at the expense of others (looking at it retroactively dunce, don't try pull a fast one (you're not capable of it) and try to spin it to look as if I mean removing what is already present).

It's amazing really. That the game could be so popular, and so playable for so long with so many "vital" aircraft missing. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Guess they aren't that "vital" afterall. lol

Thor claims he will never buy the product, he has no ground to stand on, and should STFU in that case. He further proceeds to profess his superiority and attempts to lay down the law on what's important and what's not. Worse still, others follow in his footsteps, totally blind to the truth, then you hit your time of the month and go on the rag and join them. You could not have picked a more appropriate name. Congratulations on finally living down to it.

All of you are claiming to have some higher spiritual connection to the universal truth. You're all full of ****, and trying to dress up an extreme double standard to boot.

Stay with me here, read it slowly, and several times if you need to, it's important you understand - the ONLY thing you know, is what YOU WANT. Period. End of story. Don't piss on me and tell me it's raining. You can't claim the stuff YOU want is important and nothing else is. Oh, you have sure tried like hell, no question, but bull$hit is bull$hit. Passion and repition won't turn it into gold.

Here's a little revelation for ya - what is "important" is what the mass market will desire. They will see the Corsair, the zero, and some japanese and US dive bombers and carriers and think "woah, cool!". Everything else is icing on the cake. You sim commies and nazis (2 sides of the coin there) that bleed from the ears if revision x of sub-variant y of some given plane is missing are few in number and unimportant to the success of the game.

Cry all you want, but the "important" planes are already in according to the dev updates. All the rest is icing on the cake. And no matter how much your clams hurt, the inclusion of the F7F anf F8F would go a much longer way toward improvnig sales than any **** plane that is obscure to the masses. Take some midol and get over it.



Now, if you guys ever decide to drop this "holier-than-thou" ****, insisting that people must get the game that YOU want and that's it, and instead get a grip on reality, then I won't have to keep slapping you around. It's a self feeding mechanism. The more you come back and continue this **** (clearly getting pissed off to boot - but hey, can't blame ya too much, the truth often hurts and people hate to have it shoved in their faces), the more you're gonna get upset and indignant and waste time trying to spin and find new tactics while looking more and more like an ***. The one positive is that it is entertaining to see your spineless contorsions, retractions, and spontaneous path changes. lol

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

ZG77_Nagual
07-23-2004, 08:30 AM
Hmm.. well. Psychosis can be amusing. Particularly at a distance.

I like flying against pilots - not technology. The Bearcat, will, in this simm - despite the freedom and righteous power it evidently symbolizes - be another noob ride for skillfree doofi who get their talentless nerd yaya's off having the best toy.

In any case - in life, if not in this simm, I sincerely wish that DDT gets his 'bearcat'. Or, as Dorothy perhaps said it best:

"But you 'have a bearcat'. All you have to do is wake up".

Godspead Blitzpig_DDT in your quest for the 'Bearcat within'

WUAF_Badsight
07-23-2004, 08:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
im retarted & theres nothing anyone can do about it<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


no arguments there but lets try to stay ontopic here can we ?

you dont see how the lack of a medium VVS bomber or the lack of the JU88 isnt important ?

what is wrong with you ?

you actually believe that the Bearcat deserves to be in PF more than planes that actually did sorties/combat/took part in WW2 ?

it doesnt

& besides that point . . . .

ppl in this thread dont want tosee PF reach the same situation the FB is in

as for my post at the bottom of page 3 ....... did that hit a nerve / sore point ?

dont like being told your posting dribble ?

if either is the case then take a look at what you posted . . . . . .

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

BlitzPig_DDT
07-23-2004, 08:45 AM
I see......drugs, or blindness in your case Nagaul?

They say - "Don't include that plane!" "That plane doesn't belong!" "My plane is more important!"

We say - "We want these planes because they are cool and will be fun."

See the difference? They accuse us of something THEY do, i.e. pushing a personal agenda and nothing else. They claim to have some knowledge sent straight from the divinity on what's important and that everyone else should shut it.

Well, not to put too fine a point on it - f|_|ck that. As long as they continue their pompous preening, parading around like they posess some universal truth, I will be tearing them a new one. I'm saying "them" to you, but that doesn't mean you are off the hook, or not part of them.

No wonder the world is so screwed. People like you, and the others are a sad commentary on the values and educational system we have in place. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

I'll spell it out for you - all it takes is the admission that they want some other plane instead and would personally prefer the time spent making it. Cutting the bull$hit about their wish being more important or valuable. Can they, can you, do that? At this point, I have my doubts.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-23-2004, 08:46 AM
heres the dribble

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
Thor claims he will never buy the product, he has no ground to stand on, and should STFU in that case. He further proceeds to profess his superiority and attempts to lay down the law on what's important and what's not. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

& heres what was actually posted

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by csThor:
I would not mind a few oddities if they came in a sensible package with other "oddities", perhaps a few maps if necessary just to create a believable environment. But only after the historically important planes are there, after the gaps in the planeset and mapset were closed.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


you only need a small amount of impartiality to see who actually has a point here
.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-23-2004, 08:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
Worse still, others follow in his footsteps, totally blind to the truth, then you hit your time of the month and go on the rag and join them. You could not have picked a more appropriate name. Congratulations on finally living down to it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

man you really are a moron

i actually want PF to be abetter game than FB is

& it will happen , im sure (experience & all that)

but your attitude has no reason apart from "i like Bearcats , so do others"

there actually is things beside a planes performance that make them more "valuable" or "worthy" of being included

but you cant see that with your head up your a$$ so let me explain it a little

this game isnt about online DF servers

& it isnt only about the middle part of 1945

if you were to be objective , you could say lets start from the beginning & work onwards

that would mean working on what happened during 1945 LAST

i also think that ppl who say the Bearcat or Shinden should never be included should STFU

but as far as the planes that never flew during WW2 being given priority over those that did . . . . . . thats just plain stupid

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-23-2004, 08:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:


See the difference? They accuse us of something THEY do, i.e. pushing a personal agenda and nothing else. They claim to have some knowledge sent straight from the divinity on what's important and that everyone else should shut it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

well ok then . . .. whats the agenda we see here ?

the idea is to have the actual WW2 time period covered

the idea is to have the most used planes being given priority so that the initial release of PF has everything it needs

the idea here is to avoid the situation we have in FB

& what situation is that DDT ?

answer me that o lord of dribbling abuse

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

ZG77_Nagual
07-23-2004, 08:59 AM
I think we need a skyraider

BlitzPig_DDT
07-23-2004, 09:02 AM
http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/ROFLMAO.gif

no-sight continues his doctorate level dissertation on how to be a complete tool.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
you dont see how the lack of a medium VVS bomber or the lack of the JU88 isnt important ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I see remedial education is in order. Including but by no means limited to, basic reading.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>what is wrong with you ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That people like you can actually exist in this advance modern world of ours. How can you survive the dangers of each day having no apparent comprehensive capabilities or basic reading skills? It's a scary thought.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>you actually believe that the Bearcat deserves to be in PF more than planes that actually did sorties/combat/took part in WW2 ?

it doesnt<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It'll help sales. Sales are the bottom line. Not the desires of some geek living in his parents basement salivating over # of rivets on some ancient war plane.

However, be that as it may, you still can not see the white text before your eyes, or comprehend it's meaning. Thus you continue in your pointless actions while simultaneously never coming close to a valid counter point.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>& besides that point . . . .

ppl in this thread dont want tosee PF reach the same situation the FB is in<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, but they can't admit exactly what that state is. It IS a lack of the planes THEY WANT. Instead, they, you, have to dress it up in false grandeur. Keep it up. I'll be here till this is locked or your get bored, or you admit to yourself what you're doing.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>as for my post at the bottom of page 3 ....... did that hit a nerve / sore point ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not at all. Just a disappointment that you were like them is all. Further evidence that if ya give people a chance, they will almost always let ya down.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-23-2004, 09:15 AM
hola again dumba$$

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/ROFLMAO.gif

no-sight continues his doctorate level dissertation on how to be a complete tool.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
you dont see how the lack of a medium VVS bomber or the lack of the JU88 isnt important ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I see remedial education is in order. Including but by no means limited to, basic reading.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

what is FB ?

its a simulation of the finnish / russian war

the JU88 & the medium VVS bombers had MAJOR parts to play

thats not my opinion

thats what actually happened back during that time

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-23-2004, 09:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:

Yes, but they can't admit exactly what that state is. It IS a lack of the planes THEY WANT. Instead, they, you, have to dress it up in false grandeur. Keep it up. I'll be here till this is locked or your get bored, or you admit to yourself what you're doing.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ok , the situation in FB at the moment . . . .


in FB , right now , we have multiple planes flyable that didnt actually have any major part to play in WW2

at the same time , we have highly used planes , that are extremely valuable to
1) historical coops
2) online virtual wars
3) recreating events that took place during WW2

thats the current situation in FB

4 posts up i asked you to give me your opinin on the current situation in FB . . . which you have side-stepped

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
& what situation is that DDT ?

answer me that o lord of dribbling abuse<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

you are side-stepping this problem/issue because it hurts your case that the Bearcat should actually be given priority

whats your problem withthe Bearcat plane being left out till later ?

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

BlitzPig_DDT
07-23-2004, 09:54 AM
Holy cr@p. You claim I didn't answer your question even though you quoted the reponse to it. And you have the balls to call someone else a dumba$$? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

So it would also prove pointless to direct you up to where the Pe-2 situation was addressed. Since you would be incapable of understanding the meaning of those words as well.

So, since you can't understand that what sells is important, or why it is so, or what it is that sells, it's impossible to get through that lead lined cranium of yours. Not that this is any surprise however. But it does render answering your specific questions an excercise in futility. Now, if, on the other hand, you wise up and exhibit the faintest hint of rational thought and cognitive abilities, I'd be glad to answer any questions you might have. "Ain't no shame in my game", as it were.

The very manner in which you end that last cry for help clearly demonstrates that you don't, or can't, read or understand the posts. You're so far off the mark it's laughable. You don't understand yourself, and you don't understand what is going on here. You have no hope of understanding me or my actions, as a result.

Run along, take your medication, and lie down for a bit. Too much of this internet thing is having an ill effect on you.

Or would you rather return to tell me I'm right, by once again posting insipid cr@p that clearly indicates you don't understand what is being said?

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

Yellonet
07-23-2004, 09:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>you actually believe that the Bearcat deserves to be in PF more than planes that actually did sorties/combat/took part in WW2 ?

it doesnt<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It'll help sales. Sales are the bottom line. Not the desires of some geek living in his parents basement salivating over # of rivets on some ancient war plane.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"It'll help sales." That is just pure speculation.

Couldn't a flight-sim with a "historical" planeset sell just as well? A few more buyers because of the "historical correctness" perhaps?


- Yellonet

Hoarmurath
07-23-2004, 10:02 AM
DDT, if you want this bearcat so much, make the 3D model and send it to oleg, or STFU.

http://hoarmurath.free.fr/images/sighoar.jpg (http://hoarmurath.free.fr/files/internationale-ru.mp3)
56Kers are strongly advised to NOT click on my signature http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-23-2004, 10:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:

So, since you can't understand that what sells is important, or why it is so, or what it is that sells, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ok .... you can continue to dodge questions with dribble , but it dont help you

the question is whats most important

the ppl in this thread want a rounded simulation of the PTO of WW2

this "well roundedness" is lacking from FB

what sells isnt the reason behind excluding the F8F from the initial release . . . & you know it

the ppl in this thread want a game that gives the PTO justice


whats your take on the Hs129 & JU88 being AI , while the GO-229 & P-80 & Bf-109Z had effort put into making them flyable

the coding is the greater part of the work DDT

dont you think that for FB to be more complete , that the most used planes in the war should have been given priority ?

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

BlitzPig_DDT
07-23-2004, 10:05 AM
In (some people's version of) a perfect world, perhaps Yellonet. But not in the world we live in.

If you were right, Hollywood would be out of buisness, Crimson Skies would never sell, SWON would never have been made, and M$ would have been our of the flight sim market long before CFS ever hit the shelves.

Don't get me wrong, I lament the fact that "The Sims" is the best selling game and that more complex, interesting titles are being phased out by the realities of buisness, but, it is what it is.

The high powered, cool, exotics will bring the masses. It's just as true here as it is for NFS. And in the states, if that high powered, cool, exotic happens to be a US plane, it'll help even more.

Plus, this isn't an RTS game. It's an air combat game. I know many people, you included, would like to think otherwise, but, everything about the entire series says that that is all that it is. LOMAC could be thought of as a modern version of this series in a sense.


But the whole problem here all along has been that you and the others don't come in and say "you know, I'd really like to see &lt;this particular plane&gt; because I have &lt;these&gt; ideas I'd love to be able to do." and keep things on a nice conversational level. Instead you come in demanding "Don't add this plane!", and some of your co-horts demand "Well then add &lt;these not fully built japanese planes&gt; as well!", and off we go.

In the process of all of that, you lose sight of the fact that I have stated that it would be great to see all planes added, and that I am against the exclusion of any plane. I want choice. And I also freely admit that I want the late Grummans because I like them and I want to see them in a "sim", because they haven't ever been.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-23-2004, 10:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
Holy cr@p. You claim I didn't answer your question <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



& the question was :


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
the idea here is to avoid the situation we have in FB

& what situation is that DDT ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



you responded to my question with :

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
no-sight continues his doctorate level dissertation on how to be a complete tool.

I see remedial education is in order. Including but by no means limited to, basic reading.

That people like you can actually exist in this advance modern world of ours. How can you survive the dangers of each day having no apparent comprehensive capabilities or basic reading skills? It's a It'll help sales. Sales are the bottom line. Not the desires of some geek living in his parents basement salivating over # of rivets on some ancient war plane.

However, be that as it may, you still can not see the white text before your eyes, or comprehend it's meaning. Thus you continue in your pointless actions while simultaneously never coming close to a valid counter point.
scary thought.

Yes, but they can't admit exactly what that state is. It IS a lack of the planes THEY WANT. Instead, they, you, have to dress it up in false grandeur. Keep it up. I'll be here till this is locked or your get bored, or you admit to yourself what you're doing.

Not at all. Just a disappointment that you were like them is all. Further evidence that if ya give people a chance, they will almost always let ya down.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


ok . i got 20/20 vision

i didnt see any response to the question about the current situation in FB in your reply

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Yellonet
07-23-2004, 10:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
They say - "Don't include that plane!" "That plane doesn't belong!" "My plane is more important!"

We say - "We want these planes because they are cool and will be fun."
See the difference?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, it's a difference in how we say it. As soon as you(anyone) say "want these planes" you are setting something else aside, whether you say it or not. Because of the tight schedule for PF there simply isn't enough time to get every plane in the Pacific into the game so if you say that you want plane x in the game you are at the same time, spoken or not, saying that you are ok with leaving something else out.

Apparently you DDT are willing to leave a plane that did see action out in favour of a plane that did not see any action, therein lies our disagreement.


- Yellonet

BlitzPig_DDT
07-23-2004, 10:28 AM
Yellonet, you must see what I mean when looking at the steaming pile of cr@p that comes from badsight. I dare say I've rarely seen a moron of his caliber. Truly awe inspiring to watch. lol


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
ok .... you can continue to dodge questions with dribble , but it dont help you<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now your grasp on the language and it's syntax is even fading. And what's with the double spaceing? Have trouble reading it otherwise?

Face it badsight, the only dodging going on around here has been your dodging the actual content of posts. You cramped up, were called on it, and now your snatch hurts so bad you can't see straight and just blindly post nonsense that has no bearing on the discussion in any way whatsoever. You desperately lash out trying to blame your own failings on others. Sad really.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>the ppl in this thread want a rounded simulation of the PTO of WW2<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now you speak for everybody? Interesting. You see, a fair # are with me, a fair # want never builts to counter them, some don't want those planeS((!!!) yes, PLURAL) added at all. I think it's time you got an adult to read and explain the posts to you badsight. You have demonstrated an utter lack of capability of doing so on your own.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>this "well roundedness" is lacking from FB<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Only in your opinion. Obviously not in the opinion of the devs, and obviously it's not that big a deal either, else we wouldn't be playing it after all this time, nor would it be as successful as it has been.

Of course, it would help if you understood what FB is, but you don't.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>what sells isnt the reason behind excluding the F8F from the initial release . . . & you know it<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Shining example of you lack of reading comprehension. Brilliant! http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/Thumbsup2.gif



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>the ppl in this thread want a game that gives the PTO justice<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

More trying to speak for everyone. And anohter claim that you know best. The unbridled ego, mixed with such vast ignorance is startling.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>whats your take on the Hs129 & JU88 being AI , while the GO-229 & P-80 & Bf-109Z had effort put into making them flyable<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's great. It's a lot more fun, offers more variety, and also opens it up to more people for those very reasons. In short, it helps sell more copies. Sorry badsight, you're WAY off base here.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>dont you think that for FB to be more complete , that the most used planes in the war should have been given priority ?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The problem here is the term "complete". You have to understand what it *is* to understand what would make it "complete". You don't. The Do-335 would make it more complete than the Ju-88. But you don't realize that because you have a false idea of what FB is.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

Yellonet
07-23-2004, 10:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
In (some people's version of) a perfect world, perhaps Yellonet. But not in the world we live in.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, that's your oppinion. And it's not worth any more than mine, even though you like to think so.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
If you were right, Hollywood would be out of buisness, Crimson Skies would never sell, SWON would never have been made, and M$ would have been our of the flight sim market long before CFS ever hit the shelves.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Are you saying that you can't like historical games AND pure arcade/adventure games? I happen to like Crimson Skies very much. Or are you trying to compare them somehow? The only thing Crimson Skies and IL-2 has common is that you're supposed to imagine that you're flying and shooting stuff up.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Plus, this isn't an RTS game. It's an air combat game. I know many people, you included, would like to think otherwise, but, everything about the entire series says that that is all that it is. LOMAC could be thought of as a modern version of this series in a sense.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Where did RTS come from?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
But the whole problem here all along has been that you and the others don't come in and say "you know, I'd really like to see &lt;this particular plane&gt; because I have &lt;these&gt; ideas I'd love to be able to do." and keep things on a nice conversational level. Instead you come in demanding "Don't add this plane!", and some of your co-horts demand "Well then add &lt;these not fully built japanese planes&gt; as well!", and off we go.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I am more than willing to keep the conversation polite. And for the record I do NOT want any "not fully built japanese planes", nor any other such plane.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
In the process of all of that, you lose sight of the fact that I have stated that it would be great to see all planes added, and that I am against the exclusion of any plane. I want choice. And I also freely admit that I want the late Grummans because I like them and I want to see them in a "sim", because they haven't ever been.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, then. I don't mind having the Bearcat in the game. Sometime. But first I want the (to me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) important "historical" planes.


- Yellonet

WUAF_Badsight
07-23-2004, 10:40 AM
the one in this thread without the understanding , or ability to answer questions is yourself

you still dont get how FB is a simulation of the finnish/russian war do you

you still refuse to accept that the most used planes are the most valuable to making a simulation of events

for you FB is just DFing online isnt it

& the only tool in your "skillset" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif that you have to defend your position is character assasination

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Yellonet
07-23-2004, 10:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Now your grasp on the language and it's syntax is even fading. And what's with the double spaceing? Have trouble reading it otherwise? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's just low http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif, have a try at our languages and see if you're perfect. I thought you said something about wanting a "nice conversation"? This isn't the way.


- Yellonet

WUAF_Badsight
07-23-2004, 10:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:

Now you speak for everybody?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

why dont you take a moment to see how ppl in this thread are posting

your the only one who cant see how PF developers should give priority to the most used planes

your the only one who cant see how ppl posting in this thread want PF to be more than a online DFing tool

the ppl you have taken exception too have posted in the manner of wanting PF to be a PTO simulation

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-23-2004, 10:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:

The problem here is the term "complete". You have to understand what it *is* to understand what would make it "complete". You don't. The Do-335 would make it more complete than the Ju-88. But you don't realize that because you have a false idea of what FB is.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


yea i forgot how big a impact they had on Germanys fortunes compared to the most used LW bomber

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

your attitude is clear DDT ..... & its backwards & irrelevant to what the game is about

& that is :

recreating the PTO part of WW2

multiplay is a part , & its far from the most important

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Yellonet
07-23-2004, 11:06 AM
Hey guys, if we keep it up this thread will soon have more posts than the "Cutting ships in two with .50 mg" thread http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif


- Yellonet

BlitzPig_DDT
07-23-2004, 11:13 AM
Proof positive. Thanks badsight. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

You have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt you are clueless as to what's going on here, as well as what IL2 was about, what FB was about, and what AEP is about.

Do you have to do drugs to maintain that fog, or does it just come naturally? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

Yellonet
07-23-2004, 11:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
Proof positive. Thanks badsight. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

You have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt you are clueless as to what's going on here, as well as what IL2 was about, what FB was about, and what AEP is about.

Do you have to do drugs to maintain that fog, or does it just come naturally? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What's the purpose of this post but to anger BadSight?

At least try to come with something relevant to the discussion.


- Yellonet

BlitzPig_DDT
07-23-2004, 11:43 AM
I've been there and done that Yellonet. Both to him directly, and to you (which would be indirectly in his case). He either doesn't read, or doesn't understand. At the very least he disregards what he doesn't like.

I could tell him over and over and over again, but it would do no good. So, if he has masochistic tendencies, well, I'm more than happy to oblige him. He's humorous if nothing else. lol

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

[This message was edited by BlitzPig_DDT on Fri July 23 2004 at 11:18 AM.]

Yellonet
07-23-2004, 11:53 AM
Well, it looks like PF is going to be more of the game I and BadSight want anyway http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif


- Yellonet

BlitzPig_DDT
07-23-2004, 12:16 PM
Not really. You didn't want compatibility remember? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

Yellonet
07-23-2004, 12:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
Not really. You didn't want compatibility remember? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I wanted a Stand-alone PF. But now as we're getting the addon and a stand-alone, the compatibility between these two is imperative. A addon person and a stand-alone person should be able to play PF against eachother, right?


- Yellonet

BSS_Vidar
07-23-2004, 01:12 PM
Yellonet,
No sir,
Add-on version is not compadible to the pure PF version. We purists have our PTO sim with no FB/AEP planesets.

For on-line play, you get to choose which type of server you want to fly on - PF stand alone, or FB/AEP/PF. Missions can be taken from PF to FB/AEP/PF, but not vice-versa. So their is no way to get a Yak over Midway if you're on a pure PF server.

This truely makes everyone happy. I'll be found almost entirely on Pure PF servers, but once in a while, I'll take the "Whistlin' Death" against a 190 just for kicks. It's a very Kewel OPTION.

S!

BSS_Vidar

Scarn3
07-23-2004, 01:17 PM
This might be a private "discussion" but on this I do agree, if the Bearcat was added into the sim (A plane made in large numbers and barely missed the war by weeks) it would sell better in the U.S.
I would love to fly the Bearcat. Finally the US would have a dominating plane that was fast, maneuverable, great fire power (4 20 mm cannonns!) and have the inherint durability that all Grumman aircraft had.
I know several of my buddies here back in the states that would love this.

I can see your point of only allowing planes that flew in combat in the PF sim but you got to admit, the lines are a bit blurred when it comes to the F8F, the thing was already on carries in squadron strength in the pacific when the war ended, it wasn't just a couple of prototypes on some bombed out airfield that some of these other "add-ons" were.

I would love to have it included in the game.

BlitzPig_DDT
07-23-2004, 01:20 PM
It's interesting. I don't know if something got lost due to "Oleg-ish" (heh heh, not a diss, it's actually great), or if they really added another check and intentional lock.

See, since PF is built on AEP, it's obviously compatible with it. So that part makes sense. And naturally every player has to have the same objects and FMs, DMs, etc, but, there really is no reason to block a PF only player from a server that has both, IF the map is PF only stuff.

IOW - if someone gets PF after having AEP and integrates them, then makes a COOP with only planes, maps, and equipment from PF, then a PF-only owner would have no technical limitation from joining.

Unless.....they made the integration change version to a different # than the PF only and the version check algorithm will just bar access.

Always possible, but seems a little unecessary. All you'd need to do is check the mission to see if all objects and bit's o'code needed are present.

But yeah, either way, if you only have PF, then you won't be able to properly cover all historical battles in which the US naval (but not necessarily US Navy) planes fought.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

Yellonet
07-23-2004, 01:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BSS_Vidar:
Yellonet,
No sir,
Add-on version is not compadible to the pure PF version. We purists have our PTO sim with no FB/AEP planesets.

For on-line play, you get to choose which type of server you want to fly on - PF stand alone, or FB/AEP/PF. Missions can be taken from PF to FB/AEP/PF, but not vice-versa. So their is no way to get a Yak over Midway if you're on a pure PF server.

This truely makes everyone happy. I'll be found almost entirely on Pure PF servers, but once in a while, I'll take the "Whistlin' Death" against a 190 just for kicks. It's a very Kewel OPTION.

S!

BSS_Vidar<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If this is true... Wohoo! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


- Yellonet

BlitzPig_DDT
07-23-2004, 01:36 PM
Of course, you would choose what kind of server you wanted, PF or mixed, even if it only came in the add-on variety. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

Baco-ECV56
07-23-2004, 01:55 PM
Just to make something really clear:
IL-2, FB and AEP hopefully (but surelly) PF, are not arcades that intend to have some historical or realistic acuracy, but they are Historical, and Realistic Flight Simulations (Thanks God) that intend to be accesible to the general public.

We onlly hope that the dev. team will pay more atention to the acuracy and hostorical aspect of the sim, than to the purelly "fun" stuff.

You want the Bearcat and that is very fine with me. I want it too, But AFTER we get a simulation of the PTO WWII sim that alowd us to recreate that specific conflict with the best posible acuracy and realism.

The Bearcat does not help towards that goal.
It is as you stated yourself a FUN adittion. One that presents little chalenges for virtual pilots (as opposed to gammers), since it will no doubtlly dominate the sceen.

Nothning wrong with good old plain fun, but for mots FB folowers fun comes from acuracy, not from flying the best plane available and colecting kills...

And maybe all the tension comes from the fact that we want to see our favorite tool to represent our favorit arial conflict stay as acurate as posible, enstead of us fun as posible.

Since I insist, fun for us is tied to acuracy, not being able to blast out of the sky as many foes as posible.

Some of us just want to recreate the chalenges and actions of the guys that flew that particular conflict. And thats fun for us. If we wanted a flying fun game we would be in Crimson Skys forums...

I trully hope you (we) get the Bearcat, and every plane that we "need" to find the fun we want in PF.

For me right now there are limitations to what I can replicate in FB/AEP becouse of the lack of some planes. I don´t want to have this feeling with PF if there´s something I can do about it.

So, there is no problem with the Bearcat, it is simply that more of us want other planes first.
Pure and simple.

But we don´t have any arguments to convince you, as well as you don´t have any arguments to convince us.

So this discussion has just become futil...

It will be up to the development team to decide what to include first and what later...

Baco-ECV56
07-23-2004, 02:11 PM
About the compatybility issue you are absolutelly rigth Blitzpig. IOt seem s to me that it was done with the # thing becouse of simplicity.

I´m sure its a lot easyer and simpler to check what instalation you have instead of having a CRC check of each mission to determine if there are any incompatible objects in it.

As Oleg said, that could be done, but it would take 6 more months http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

Yellonet
07-23-2004, 02:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Nothning wrong with good old plain fun, but for mots FB folowers fun comes from acuracy, not from flying the best plane available and colecting kills... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Couldn't have said it better myself.


- Yellonet

BlitzPig_DDT
07-23-2004, 02:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Baco-ECV56:
About the compatybility issue you are absolutelly rigth Blitzpig. IOt seem s to me that it was done with the # thing becouse of simplicity.

I´m sure its a lot easyer and simpler to check what instalation you have instead of having a CRC check of each mission to determine if there are any incompatible objects in it.

As Oleg said, that could be done, but it would take 6 more months http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's not how he phrased it, and it would not take 6 months to do that.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

BSS_Vidar
07-23-2004, 02:40 PM
It is true Yellonet. Straight from Oleg himself. He also said specificaly that FB/AEP/PF is NOT compadible with a pure PF.

It's really quite brilliant how they came up with this solution. With both versions installed on your HD, you just simply log on to HL/Ubi and choose which server to fly in - Pure or combined. It's like having two different sims to fly on-line.

S!

BSS_Vidar

BlitzPig_DDT
07-23-2004, 03:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Baco-ECV56:
Just to make something really clear:
IL-2, FB and AEP hopefully (but surelly) PF, are not arcades that intend to have some historical or realistic acuracy, but they are Historical, and Realistic Flight Simulations (Thanks God) that intend to be accesible to the general public.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First off, they are missing too many things, and have too many problems (to even list) to be classified as anything more than really good games. *Some* planes are done accurately, but, even then we have to say "acurately" and excuse the limitations of the engine (such as torque and dive acceleration, as 2 examples, but that's not where it ends). Other planes however, are just....not right.

You drank the kool-aid I'm afraid.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>We onlly hope that the dev. team will pay more atention to the acuracy and hostorical aspect of the sim, than to the purelly "fun" stuff.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A "realistic flight sim" and an air war recreation, are 2 different things. And IL2 was never an air war recreation. Nor was FB, nor is AEP.

There have always been 2 foci, 1 is mud moving with the IL2, and the other is online multiplayer air combat.

The plane set alone has always shown this to be the case. But let's not forget the AI shortcomings, utter lack of any decent offline campaign possiblities, and lack of anything in the way of mud moving other than the IL2 at first, and fighter/bombers later on (with the sole exception of the Ju-87, but that was a screamed for counterpart to the IL2).

As time went on, we got more and more planes, all of them fighters. eventually, after enough screaming, we got 2 bombers to fly. However, they don't change anything. The focus remains on the IL2, fighters, and fighter/bombers.

It's painfully obvious really. WWII Air Combat is the focus of this game. It is not an air war recreation (which would be like an RTS of sorts Yellonet - think LucasArt's BoB, basically a combination)


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You want the Bearcat and that is very fine with me. I want it too, But AFTER we get a simulation of the PTO WWII sim that alowd us to recreate that specific conflict with the best posible acuracy and realism.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That will never happen. The engine is insufficient both in terms of physics, and # of aircraft usable at once. The AI will never behave well enough. The presence of such high hour sim pilots will further erode and possiblity of a realistic recreation of any battle. And the support isn't going to be there because BoB is looming on the horizon.

Furthermore, you still misunderstand what IL2 and FB were. There is no reason to assume that PF will be any different (although in your case you are mis-assuming it won't be based on misconceptions of what it's predecessors were).


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The Bearcat does not help towards that goal.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your "goal" is little more than an attempt to derail PF and shape it as you see fit. And you are going to sit there and tell me that it's more valid. Not gonna happen, because I won't accept it. I'll give like for like until the end of time if need be.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It is as you stated yourself a FUN adittion. One that presents little chalenges for virtual pilots (as opposed to gammers), since it will no doubtlly dominate the sceen.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, as opposed to a boring addition. Just because you want it does not make it any better, even though you are thoroughly convinced that it does. Again, part of the problem lies in the misconception of what this series of games ever was.

BTW - the Ki and La's don't dominate. There's always a counter, and there's always stupid pilots. Again though, you have disdain for what you perceive as a lack of challenge, which simultaneously demonstrates a lack of understanding on your part, and a runaway ego.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Nothning wrong with good old plain fun, but for mots FB folowers fun comes from acuracy, not from flying the best plane available and colecting kills...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

When was the last time you took a look at HL? The answer would be never if you honestly beleive that, *and* have any objective observational capacity.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And maybe all the tension comes from the fact that we want to see our favorite tool to represent our favorit arial conflict stay as acurate as posible, enstead of us fun as posible.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. All the "tension" comes from the fact that you and the others have a high and mighty attitude that you know best and can't admit the truth, even to yourselves. That you wish to ban aircraft that don't fit your narrow, short sighted, and ultimately incorrect, idea of a war recreation, and your utterly incorrect assumption of what the previous games have been.

But you also betrayed yourself here. "instead of as fun as possible" You'd rather make the game a little more boring for everyone and even potentially hurt sales, just so you can have your way.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Since I insist, fun for us is tied to acuracy, not being able to blast out of the sky as many foes as posible.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, obviously, in that case, fun for you is tied to hype and gullibility. Either that or you've been unable to have any real fun with the IL2 series to date.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Some of us just want to recreate the chalenges and actions of the guys that flew that particular conflict. And thats fun for us. If we wanted a flying fun game we would be in Crimson Skys forums...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Once again, you fail to grasp the concept that you will never be able to do what you describe above. Reality just won't allow it. The reality of the limitations of PCs, the reality of the limitations of time, and of money.....it's just not going to happen. Screwing over hordes of people who are either quiet or don't read these forums will not change anything. No matter how loud you all cry.

Furthermore, you betray yourself again. You just undermined everything you have said by stating that "fun" isn't realistic, and that there is no way to combine the 2.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I trully hope you (we) get the Bearcat, and every plane that we "need" to find the fun we want in PF.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is part of what I mean by you guys (not just you in particular as this is your first post in this mess) being blind, and arrogant self righteous cry babies.

We don't NEED what YOU want. And this is about 2 aircraft, not just 1. (well, a case of 1, the other, or both. lol)


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>For me right now there are limitations to what I can replicate in FB/AEP becouse of the lack of some planes. I don´t want to have this feeling with PF if there´s something I can do about it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course there are. Because you want to push the limits of the game, using it in ways and for things it wasn't ever intended to be or do.

But, I also am limited by the plane set. But for a different set of reasons than you. lol http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>So, there is no problem with the Bearcat, it is simply that more of us want other planes first.
Pure and simple.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is the closest you have come to honesty in your whole post. But, congratulations, it's one hell of a lot closer than the others have come.

However, it's still rife with the delusions of grandeur. Just to a different extent. You are the vocal minority, but you assume that 5 people are proof of dominance (1 of which won't even be playing the game lol).


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>But we don´t have any arguments to convince you, as well as you don´t have any arguments to convince us.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, to be honest, this is due, in no small part, to the fact that you are mistaken in what you assume the series to be about, and if you can miss something that blatant, there isn't going to be any getting through to you ('you' in general, not specific)


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>So this discussion has just become futil...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was from the begining.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

BSS_Vidar
07-23-2004, 03:47 PM
DDT,
For a guy who flys a monitor, you're a real hoot. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep'em comming. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

BSS_Vidar

Baco-ECV56
07-23-2004, 04:01 PM
No Blitz, you missinterpret me. I don´t need the perect simulator to have fun, I "need" the closest posible thing. I absolutelly know thta IL-2 series is not near perfect but it is the best dam thing out there. Nothing comes even close.

I can state with out doubt that they are the most realistic sims in the market.

So the realistic and histroical aproaches are more an intention than a reality. Yes, but that does not incvalidate my point of view of what the IL-2 series are.

But I have found another thing in witch none of us have the absolute truth, and that is : what exactlly IL-2 series is for diferent people. I guess it´s a tool so well concive that it may be diferent things for diferent people with diferent wants and needs and tastes.

So another thing where we can not find a general concensus http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

You misinterpret me also in that you belive that I am passing judegment to your posture and glorifying mine, or the (historical acurate bunch) posture. And I simply don´t. I like to point my take or my preferences in this matter, without trying to pass judgement on others.

As I said, your needs are as valid as everyones elses. The point that we are trying to reach is that fair or not, justified or not, there are more people that would like other aircrafts done first.

I don´t agree with the "validity of a plane" arguments.

You are rigth in that it is a matter of wants.

But it seems that more people want to use PF in a manner that you don´t mind of and that unfurtanatlly colides with the way you want to use PF.

So as I said it is futile, since we want PF to have diferent flavours. And Im sure that following FB´s and AEP´s tradition it eventually will. We are discusing witch flavour should be a priority now and here for the first release of the title http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

It wouldn´t be fair to discus the validity of the flavours. That, I agree, it would be a selfish attitude as the one you acuse us of having, and at least in my case it is not so. I do want my flavour to be a priority for the first release yes of course I´ll give you that much http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif, but in no way I consider your flavor invalid or wrong.

But it is my understanding that it is the most popular flavour. (at least in this forums)

P.S. yes I haven´t played Halflife, nor CS, nor any other non realistic game. I onlly fly hardcore sims, or tactical shooters with the best realism available.

I do not consier myself part of an elite, it is onlly that what I consider fun is to try to replicate the actual job of being a pilot.
I use flight simulators to play a personal RPG, in that I try to consider myself a virtual pilot, not a gamer. So I don´t play Flight sims, I play to be a pilot using Flight simulators as a tool to achive that.

[This message was edited by Baco-ECV56 on Fri July 23 2004 at 03:09 PM.]

jpatrick62
07-23-2004, 04:09 PM
I guess there has to be a point of cutoff and that is whether the plane saw action in any numbers during the war. If not, all countries could have "what if" planes introduced. One thing noone has brought up is acurate modelling. If a plane has not saw extensive combet, we really don't know its damage modelling or weak points either. For instance, the P51H had performance similar to the Bearcat, but Chuck Yeager claimed it had lost stiffness and the airframe, in an attempt to lose weight, was actually inferior to the P51D. How would the Bearcat and Tigercat hold up in combat? Who really knows?

BlitzPig_DDT
07-23-2004, 04:32 PM
JPatrick, the Bearcat did see service in other countries post WWII. And it would not be difficult to extrapolate the data. In fact, nearly all of what we have is extrapolated.

Baco, what I meant about the purpose of IL2 and FB and AEP, I'm not sure if you understood. I won't argue (too much, heh heh) about the comparitive "realism" of the series *in terms of FM and DM*. What I was saying is that *that* is what it's all about. It's not about re-creating the entire war, or theatre of war, or even theatre of air war. It's about flying the IL2 against ground targets, or flying fighters against other fighters and IL2s. In other words, it's about air combat, not a re-creation of the war.

If it were a re-creation of the war, we'd have a nearly entirely different game from the ground up - units, vehicles, FMB options, AI behavior, flyable aircraft and mannable positions, etc.

Now it's obvious that that is what you want, but, that isn't what it is.

I do want to touch on your CS comment though - I'd love to see a realistic FM/DM for CS. That game was a blast in terms of story, but the flying part sucked. There's no law preventing the combination of realistic physics and unrealistic situations (I mean hell, look at any IL2, or FB, or AEP mission really there 1000s of things to nit pick, lol, but the DF server is the most popular and the most unrealistic). (oh, yeah, some CS planes would be right out in that case, but, oh well. lol)

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-23-2004, 05:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:

First off, they are missing too many things, and have too many problems (to even list) to be classified as anything more than really good games. *Some* planes are done accurately, but, even then we have to say "acurately" and excuse the limitations of the engine (such as torque and dive acceleration, as 2 examples, but that's not where it ends). Other planes however, are just....not right.

A "realistic flight sim" and an air war recreation, are 2 different things. And IL2 was never an air war recreation. Nor was FB, nor is AEP.


It's painfully obvious really. WWII Air Combat is the focus of this game.


_That_ will never happen. The engine is insufficient both in terms of physics, and # of aircraft usable at once. The AI will never behave well enough. The presence of such high hour sim pilots will further erode and possiblity of a realistic recreation of any battle. And the support isn't going to be there because BoB is looming on the horizon.

Furthermore, you still misunderstand what IL2 and FB were. There is no reason to assume that PF will be any different (although in your case you are mis-assuming it won't be based on misconceptions of what it's predecessors were).

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

exactly how many moons are orbiting your home planet ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-23-2004, 05:48 PM
are you so ignorant as to believe that FB is merely a online DF room engine ?

& that this is also what its creators meant it to be ?

this kind of attitude was shaped duning the creatio0n of this thread surely ...... cos its a load of cr@p


you cant seriously expect people to believe that do you ?!?!?! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-23-2004, 05:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:

If it were a re-creation of the war, we'd have a nearly entirely different game from the ground up - units, vehicles, FMB options, AI behavior, flyable aircraft and mannable positions, etc.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

its not a simulation of the airwar in the ETO (FB) or the PTO (PF) because you think it doesnt do a good enough job ?!?!?!? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

your an idiot ! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-23-2004, 05:52 PM
if you need it spelled out to you . . . .

Pacific Fighters doesnt "need" a Grumman F8F Bearcat to replicate the PTO of WW2

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__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

ZG77_Nagual
07-23-2004, 07:37 PM
Wow! I'm really glad you guys figured out that PF standalone won't be compatible with FB/PF online. the level of discourse on this thread practical defines the word 'banal' - and that's a generous take. How did you ever think it would be compatible? Sheesh

DDT - you seem to be embodying most of the qualities you accuse the rest of us of having. take a pause and think about it before you let whatever undigested matter you've got festering in your bowels to speak for you..again.

The F8f Bearcat had no impact on ww2. None. If we take IL2 as a model - it started out ONLY with planes that had an impact on ww2 - however small - as in the mig3u - but nonetheless and impact. From there it developed basically according to what was submmitted that met the specs but it came out of the chute with planes that were actually involved in the war.
Now - if somebody builds a bearcat sometime later - and Oleg decides he is willing to have his team put the time into building the fm and tweaking the model - that's fine. I think it's less likely now as their workload has obviously increased. And I'd certainly rather see any plane that actually contributed in some way get modeled first - but that's not up to me.

DDT your posts are incredibly arrogant and insulting. Really I'm surprised you haven't been banned.

BlitzPig_DDT
07-23-2004, 07:41 PM
Edit - Nagual posted just before me, this is to badsight


Good god, I've NEVER seen such an unbridled display of utter stupidity. Seriously. I will make jibes to draw people out but damn! This totally goes beyond that. I'm just......flabberghasted.

It does explain why you double space your text and respond to a post in many small ones. Clearly, you can't process it all at once.

From the total lack of comprehension of what is in front of you (in terms of the game), to the complete and constant misunderstanding of the written word.

I honestly wish this was just an attempt to goad you like it has been for others, but unfortunately, after your last series of posts, it's not. It can't be.

Do you have any family or friends that you could go to for help? Maybe a local center for the, um..."challenged"?

I can't even imagine what it's like to go through life like that. No wonder you lash out so blindly. I feel bad now.

But, be that as it may, pity or not, I can't allow even the handicapped to attack me without a response. I'll try to keep them shorter for you now though.


Would you like the handguided tour of all the places where you are incorrect? Or would you prefer to refuse the help offered to you and not try to better yourself? Or.....perhaps the better part of valor is to just let it go and not continue.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

BlitzPig_DDT
07-23-2004, 07:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ZG77_Nagual:
DDT - you seem to be embodying most of the qualities you accuse the rest of us of having. take a pause and think about it before you let whatever undigested matter you've got festering in your bowels to speak for you..again.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How quaint. Did you think of that one all by yourself or did you hear it in 3rd grade and just hang on to it?

Some people, Nagual, such as yourself for example, only understand and respond to force. I don't embody any characterestics of the rest of you, but I must occasionally use them to get through those dense skulls of yours. However, I would recommend not pretending to have capabilities that you don't have in the future - such as understanding someone enough to comment on what they embody.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The F8f Bearcat had no impact on ww2. None.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Irrelevant. And in part, that's what this is all about, but once again, your collective egos and spinelessness prevents you from seeing what is, and just worming your way around from one failed tactic to the next.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If we take IL2 as a model - it started out ONLY with planes that had an impact on ww2<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And not all. Thus, it was never a "war recreation". That actually renders your point null and void.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> - however small - as in the mig3u - but nonetheless and impact.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

6 planes isn't an impact. Though it ought to be entertaining seeing you try to pull something out of your a$$ to back that up.

We could claim then, that the Bi-1 "had an impact". http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Or hell, even the Bf-209 for that matter. How nonsensical would you like to get Nagaul? I wonder how long before you drop this tactic and try to shape shift into another one...


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>DDT your posts are incredibly arrogant and insulting. Really I'm surprised you haven't been banned.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, while it will most likely be a waste of time to point this out, I will anyway. Attempting to control others, reduce their choice, and telling them that your wishes are important and theirs not, is the very definition of arrogance, and it's coming from you, badsight, sugaki, csThor, and others. You know "you guys".

As for being banned....I'm right in this case. There's nothing you can do about it. Ivan's a good guy. I'd honestly be surprised if he stooped to banning someone for responding to flagrant, and unacceptable attacks such as you all have lead with. You know, you wouldn't do this in public. Certainly, you wouldn't get away with doing it around strong willed indepentant people. They (we) don't stand idly by and take that ****. Amazing how tough the internet makes some people.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-23-2004, 09:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:


And not all. Thus, it was never a "war recreation". That actually renders your point null and void.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

you are wrong

IL2 & FB were simulations of the airwars of the ETO in WW2

you dont have a leg to stand on dude

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-23-2004, 10:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:


6 planes isn't an impact. Though it ought to be entertaining seeing you try to pull something out of your a$$ to back that up.

We could claim then, that the Bi-1 "had an impact"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

the Bi-1 never took part in combat while the MiG-3Us got 40 kill between them

but this thread is about why the Bearcat doesnt deserve to be given any priority

cause it never flew sorties in WW2

at least the P-80 did

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__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-23-2004, 10:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ZG77_Nagual:
The F8f Bearcat had no impact on ww2. None.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Irrelevant. And in part, that's what this is all about, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

omg dude ..... just keep posting thats classic

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__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

actionhank1786
07-23-2004, 10:16 PM
You guys ever watch MacGuyver?
That show was pure brilliance

http://img18.photobucket.com/albums/v54/Halfwayhank/Actionsig.png

Actionhank
~Aaron White

heywooood
07-23-2004, 10:17 PM
this thread needs a whuppin'

I think I will suggest that you nice fellers go to neutral corners whilst I play my harmonica...



http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/ac_32_1.jpg
"Check your guns"

WUAF_Badsight
07-23-2004, 10:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:

As for being banned....I'm right in this case. There's nothing you can do about it.
You know, you wouldn't do this in public. Certainly, you wouldn't get away with doing it around strong willed indepentant people. They (we) don't stand idly by and take that ****. Amazing how tough the internet makes some people.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


HAHAHHAHA

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
If you don't know it, you're blind and possibly part of the problem

People suck.

yes, people suck. In general, across the board, and this thread is just another example

People like you suck beyond description.

You all are sim-commies.

You might as well just get bent

Notice how he is so delusional

Those bastards simly HATE the idea

it's just a matter of you BSing

Were you born this much of an a$$,

I'd love to be entertained by one of your grand BS stories

while trying to tell us the $hit you are selling us is actually shinola

you snapped and have been pms'ing bad. Your cootch really hurting or something

You're gonna look like a real a$$

he has no ground to stand on, and should STFU in that case

You sim commies and nazis

they continue their pompous preening, parading around

Since you would be incapable of understanding

by once again posting insipid cr@p

looking at the steaming pile of cr@p

You have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt you are clueless

I've NEVER seen such an unbridled display of utter stupidity.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-23-2004, 10:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:

I like DF servers, yes. But mainly because I like instant action<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

&

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
The problem here is the term "complete". You have to understand what it *is* to understand what would make it "complete". You don't. The Do-335 would make it more complete than the Ju-88. But you don't realize that because you have a false idea of what FB is.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


its plain too see

DDT is just a DF room player & couldnt care less about the rest of the game

hed also enjoy FPS

id reccommend the CS FPS , lots of people playing it with the same mentality as himself

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Yellonet
07-24-2004, 05:17 AM
If someone takes the time and questionable pleasure to read some of DDTs post they will certainly see what kind of person he is. Wherever he's been, there's piles and piles of ****.

You DDT apparently think that anyone that doesn't share your oppinions are morons, that is the only conclusion one can draw from all your posts. Why can't someone be allowed to have their own oppinion without having you insulting them?


- Yellonet

heywooood
07-24-2004, 09:03 AM
YEP... DDT says it all...pure cancerous poison.

he was truly raised (or lowered) by wolves.

...but the best way to fight hate is with unbridled, unrestricted, true hippy love http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif so c'mere DDT and get some hugs from your commie, nazi, hippy hearted pals right now!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif c'mon !! don't leave me hangin' bro......no? .... m-kay you suck.



http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/ac_32_1.jpg
"Check your guns"

Hoarmurath
07-24-2004, 10:00 AM
please, don't insult wolves....

http://hoarmurath.free.fr/images/sighoar.jpg (http://hoarmurath.free.fr/files/internationale-ru.mp3)
56Kers are strongly advised to NOT click on my signature http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ZG77_Nagual
07-24-2004, 02:04 PM
Well sir. My comments are, of course and obviously, expressions only of how you appear to be expressing yourself here to me.

I don't know you personally. And if we were having this conversation in person it is very unlikely it would've gone on this long or become even remotely as confrontational. the phenomenon of 'internet rage' i expect accounts for most of it.

I think you are saying you want oleg to put a bearcat in pacific fighters. I'd say he probably is prioritizing planes that were actually in the war and with good reason. You might disagree but, unless you are one of those 'independant minded' people who thinks others must think the way you do in which case I'd either change the subject or leave. I mean, after all - we are talking about virtual airplanes in a flight simm.


LOL@Heywoood That and a little fa-jing http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[This message was edited by ZG77_Nagual on Sat July 24 2004 at 01:22 PM.]

necrobaron
07-24-2004, 05:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by heywooood:
...but the best way to fight hate is with unbridled, unrestricted, true hippy love http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif so c'mere DDT and get some hugs from your commie, nazi, hippy hearted pals right now!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif c'mon !! don't leave me hangin' bro......no? .... m-kay you suck.




<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I ain't hugging nobody! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

"Not all who wander are lost."

BlitzPig_DDT
07-26-2004, 08:42 AM
Wow. I go away for the weekend and I see the usual suspects have been hard at work here all along. lol

Nagaul, you are close this time. The problem here, as I've stated many, many times, is that people who are against it will not admit that THEY simply WANT something else instead. That they WANT to see it excluded. Instead, they act like know better than those who oppose them, that they have some sort of direct connection to the divinity or some such and are just "right". That's arrogant bull$hit, and I'm gonna beat on them until they STFU or come clean.

Things get out of hand when the immature, like Yellonet, and incompetent, like Badsight, decide to show their true colors. Obviously they have a lot of anger over what they are, and it comes out here.

Worst part is, I think they truly beleive they do know better. Which is both sad, and a riot at the same time. As a result, they can't see how they are trying to control everybody.

But, it's not surprising, because they can't see much else either. They look at posts and walk away with meanings that are totally unrelated to the content. They see responses and quote them, stating that they *don't* see them. And, most importantly, they have been unable to grasp the difference between an air combat simulaiton and an air war simulation. Which, as a result, they have been totally unaware of what this series has been all along.

The delusional fog in which they live is so thick that there is zero visibility, and they have to spout inanities here and spew bile any time they are challenged. And it's clear they are expending a lot of time and effort to do so as well.

So the bottom line is, regardless of their handicaps or other problems, so long as they wish to be so arrogant, snide, blind, downright ignorant (in all it's meanings), and attempt to control others, curtailing everyone elses enjoyment to suit their own needs, I will be here, whenever I have time, to slap them around. Unless of course, this thread is locked or deleted.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

csThor
07-26-2004, 08:53 AM
snide, blind, downright ignorant (in all it's meanings)

Hey .. you made an excellent characterization of how you come across. I am an offline-only player and so I have different sights on certain parts of FB. I don't mind a good online part (I flew online for a long time, but the interest is gone) but I do not accept when certain people (you especially) seem to try to push PF and whatever comes afterwards towards a shallow port of a 3rd Person Shooter from earth to the skies (which, quite frankly, 99% of the DF servers are). That's what Crimson Skies is for ...

______________________________

<A HREF="http://www.il2skins.com/?action=list&authoridfilter=csThor" TARGET=_blank>
http://home.arcor.de/csthor/bilder/ubi_sig.jpg </A>

csThor's skins @ Il2skins.com

Yellonet
07-26-2004, 09:16 AM
As you DDT seem to think that PF should be an air-quake game, you would't mind having modern planes in PF? Maybe even Future planes? Frankly I can't see why you play IL-2 at all when all you want is packaged and done for you in Crimson Skies. Nothing wrong with that game, but don't try to make PF into it.

BTW, it should be clear to everyone, who the immature poster is. Possibly the one who just can't give up a oppurtunity to insult someone? That's right... i's you DDT.


- Yellonet

Yellonet
07-26-2004, 09:33 AM
Why not come with something constructive instead DDT?

Your whole post consisted of cr@p about how immature and ignorant everyone else is.

What I, and probably most other people in here want is this:

Give the "historical" mainstream aircraft higher priority than the ones that saw none/limited action.

What's wrong with that?


- Yellonet

BlitzPig_DDT
07-26-2004, 10:46 AM
Thor and Yello - it's amazing to see the nonsense you talk yourselves into beleiving, and the totally laughable concepts you manage to insert into other people's words.

If you bother to take the time to actually read, sans emotion, and that is the sticking point, you will find that I have never said, hinted at, or in anyway implied anything even remotely close to what you are suggesting.

That means one of a number of possiblities. 1 is that you know this, but it does not help your goal, so you intentionally create these fictional comments in the hope of furthering your spin. Another is that you are so deep in your own little worlds that everything you read is pre-filtered and never reaches what little cognitive capabilities you do have in a form even remotely close to the original. A third is that you just don't understand what you are looking at and make up what you need to to fill in the blanks.

All you have to do is ask for help. I'll extend the same offer to you both that I extended badsight. If you wish to have it explained to you, ask. Simple as that really.

I suspect that rather than face such possibilities, you'll just continue in your ignorance, posting indirect cries for help. In which case, I will be here to *****-slap you as needed.

Next move is yours. I know you want to post more arrogant controlling non-sense about knowing what is best for the game, with a dash of school yard "I know you are but what am I" (eh Thor? Did you laugh like Pee-wee when you wrote that? lol). Prove me right. I know you are dying to.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

Sakai9745
07-26-2004, 11:00 AM
Okay... I'll bite on that last one Yellow (how have you been? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

There is no question in my mind that the ability to recreate the historical battles is an important quality. I'm definitely on the same page there, and have a couple dozen such missions in my mind that I'm ready to jump into.

Now to include the so-called 'fantasy planes' (ones that did not get into direct action against the enemy) does appeal to a certain percentage of the 'what-if' crowd. These would be the same people who take the GO-229s for a regular spin, screaming after the B-17s over Europe, and twisting and diving with Mustangs, Jugs, and the occasional Shooting Star.

Now for me, a plane such as a Bearcat would be very interesting to fly in a user-created, the A-Bomb was never dropped, post-Aug 1945 mission. The Tigercat too, although I would be willing to entertain having either available. Just as the Gotha would've taken to the air had the war in Europe continued, the Bearcat and Tigercat would most like had ended up at the very tip of the spear in the hypothetical invasion of Japan.

Strictly for me, I understand that such fantasy planes should not overwhelm the historical ones... not even come close to be sure. The balance struck in AEP was a good one, and could be used as a model for PF. Maybe (emphasize maybe) limit the number of variants on a select few aircraft, but ensure that as many if not all the majors are included?

All we've been saying here is that the 'hypothetical-types' do exist, and that to simply state that PF should be 'historical only' cuts them completely out. There has got to be some kind of middle ground, isn't there?

Regards,

Al - SF, Calif

"Defense Dept regrets to inform you that your sons are dead cause they were stupid."

[This message was edited by Sakai9745 on Mon July 26 2004 at 11:12 AM.]

csThor
07-26-2004, 11:21 AM
Sorry DDT (or better not sorry) - we all know what your "explanation" looks like:

- prejudices
- unfounded accusations
- narrow-mindedness
- inability to have a formal discussion
- insults

Why should I waste my time with an immature child that screams for mommy just because someone else eyes the last lolly-pop in the shopwindow? Oh don't worry - I won't run to Ivan. I want everyone else to see what kind of small-minded person you are.

Back to german board ... where sense and savvy reigns.

______________________________

<A HREF="http://www.il2skins.com/?action=list&authoridfilter=csThor" TARGET=_blank>
http://home.arcor.de/csthor/bilder/ubi_sig.jpg </A>

csThor's skins @ Il2skins.com

Atomic_Marten
07-26-2004, 12:07 PM
rulez of conduct...? (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=686104012)

fly nice

Yellonet
07-26-2004, 12:19 PM
So.. what you are saying DDT, is that because I want mainstream aircraft to have priority I'm an idiot?

I might not know what is best for this simulation, do you DDT? If yes, what makes your oppinion worth more than mine?

Please give these questions straight answers instead of resorting to your usual accusation and fingerpoining.


- Yellonet

RedDeth
07-26-2004, 12:33 PM
do we really want to turn this excellent forum into a copy of the drivel over at ubi IL2?

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of 12 time Champions AFJ http://66.237.29.231/IL2FS/round9.cfm http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/120_1088291823_taylor-greycap.jpg

NegativeGee
07-26-2004, 12:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedDeth:
do we really want to turn this excellent forum into a copy of the drivel over at ubi IL2?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*cough* http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Olegs Ready Room: Ta-152s (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=344103755)

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Günther Rall

http://www.invoman.com/images/tali_with_hands.jpg

Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!

BlitzPig_DDT
07-26-2004, 02:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellonet:
So.. what you are saying DDT, is that because I want mainstream aircraft to have _priority_ I'm an idiot?

I might not know what is best for this simulation, do you DDT? If yes, what makes your oppinion worth more than mine?

Please give these questions straight answers instead of resorting to your usual accusation and fingerpoining.


- Yellonet<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No Yellonet, that entire post right there is why I state that you are incapable of understanding the written word, that you instead invent, conciously or sub-conciously, meanings for posts that have little in common with their actual content. And that *that*, particularly if it is sub-concious, suggests lower than average cognitive ability.

To date, you have yet to actually indicate that you have had any idea of what I have actually said in any of my posts. From your extreme exaggerations, to twisted convolutions, not 1 of your replies has been related to anything I have actually said.

The first question shows you totally misunderstood what I explained in my first paragraph here. The seond set of questions shows that you have no idea of what I have been saying all along, which I should point out, I have spelled out, unequivocally several times so far. And your last comment simply proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are not *actually* reading the posts with any degree of comprehension. This isn't my fault. The words are there. They are clear, and specific in their nature, and context. The communication divide is caused by something on your end.

Now, I've given a straight answer to this question. &lt;- That is stated as protection against more categorically false accusations.



Thor - Thanks for telling me I was right. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Always appreciate solid affirmation like that.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

Yellonet
07-26-2004, 04:36 PM
Have looked through most of the thread... man did I laugh at some points http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

So... DDT..

You dislike the idea of balancing the inclusion of plane A with plane B.

You do not acknowledge the IL-2 series as a war simulation. According to you it's just a dogfight game with a few things on the side.

You hate people who wants PF to prioritize, to WW2, historically important aircraft.

That about right?


Seriously though (not trying to ridicule you).. you seem full of hate, and you lash out at anyone expressing, what you think is, wrong ideas or wishes. Maybe you're only like that on the internet, if not, you do have a problem.

Don't hate me because I have other wishes than you.


- Yellonet

ZG77_Nagual
07-26-2004, 05:59 PM
As I said somewhere - I agree with Sakai - the hypothetical scenario thing is fun and all that. My only contention ever has been to get the actual simm planes in first. We're all aviation enthusiasts here and naturally we like to see planes with think were cool - and ones that just missed the action but are great designs. Near as I can tell all anyone is saying here is lets get the historical ones - at least the major players - in first.

Bearcat is a cool idea. We'll see.

SkyChimp
07-26-2004, 07:35 PM
I don't agree with DDT much. But what the hell is the opposition to the F8F Bearcat? How can anyone seriously suggest it has any less place in this game than the axis fantasy planes? The planes was in US service well before the end of the war. Is it because it is universally recongnized as a fantastic all-round performer? Hell, we can't have that.

Regards,
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/signature.jpg

huggy87
07-26-2004, 07:41 PM
Does anyone know?

Did the Bearcat serve in Korea?

ZG77_Nagual
07-26-2004, 07:47 PM
It was designed as a fleet defense fighter - I think it got bumped by jets for that role and the corsair was better at ground attack.

I don't much care for the tone of this thread.

Skychimp - I haven't seen that said - from what I gather the 'argument' is about where the priority should be. The premises are:

A&gt; PF is an historical simm - therefore Historical planesets should get priority before others are added.

B&gt;It's a dogfighting simm for planes designed around ww2 - therefore what if's such as the bearcat have as much right to be included from the outset as say, the f4u1 or hellcat.

I don't think anyones saying the bearcat should absolutely not be included at some point - the argument seems to be about when - and also about what kind of simm this is.

That said, from what I've had the patience to read - misunderstanding is so rampant as to appear intentional.

SkyChimp
07-26-2004, 07:47 PM
No, the Bearcat did not serve in Korea. It was still in service state-side, however.

It was inferior to the Grumman F9F Panther jet fighter in the fighter role. And it was inferior to the Corsair in the close support role.

There just wasn't any place for it in Korea. But it was a fantastic peace-time fitghter between WWII and Korea.

Regards,
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/signature.jpg

Snootles
07-26-2004, 09:52 PM
I heard some Marine squads did use the Bearcat in the Korean War. Was I wrong? Can't find much info on which squads used it.

Anyway, it would be really neat to have the Bearcat (and especially the Tigercat) in PF, but it really should not be a top priority, and considering the situation the Japanese air arm was in in 1945 there would be little point.

I'm still holding out for my dream game. It's set in late 1948 as an escalation of the Berlin crisis. The pinnacle of propeller technology. The beginning of effective jet combat. Early night-fighting radar. Flyable bombers. Nuclear weapons available, but if used they can lose the game for you. Clickable pits. Game ships with USAF campaign; VVS, USN/USMC, RAF, FAA, and assorted other sides to be added on. Is anyone at 1c reading this?

WUAF_Badsight
07-26-2004, 10:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:

I like DF servers, yes. But mainly because I like instant action<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

nuff said

no clue

no idear

no sense of what is correct

no nothing except blind one-eyed ignorant views

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

[This message was edited by WUAF_Badsight on Mon July 26 2004 at 09:20 PM.]

WUAF_Badsight
07-26-2004, 10:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellonet:
Why not come with something constructive instead DDT?

Your whole post consisted of cr@p about how immature and ignorant everyone else is.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

the reply

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
If you bother to take the time to actually read , you will find that I have never said, hinted at, or implied anything even remotely close to what you are suggesting.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ok well what did he post ?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:

That's arrogant bull$hit, and I'm gonna beat on them until they STFU or come clean.

they can't see much else either

they have been unable to grasp the difference

as a result, they have been totally unaware

The delusional fog in which they live is so thick

and they have to spout inanities here and spew bile any time

regardless of their handicaps or other problems, so long as they wish to be so arrogant, snide, blind, downright ignorant.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

what a moron http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-26-2004, 10:19 PM
for DDTs infomation that he is wrong about . . .

FB is a computer game that replicates the air-war that took place between Finland & Russia during WW2

it is not a online DF room host engine

that feature is a secondary added part for multiplay

as are other maps & planes that are outside this theater

aint we lucky http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-26-2004, 10:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:

Originally posted by ZG77_Nagual:
The F8f Bearcat had no impact on ww2. None.

Irrelevant. And in part, that's what this is all about, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif . http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif . http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif . http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif . http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif . http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif .

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-26-2004, 10:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SkyChimp:
I don't agree with DDT much. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

AGREED 100% http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SkyChimp:
But what the hell is the opposition to the F8F Bearcat?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

nothing at my end . but i would like everyone to realise that every part of the PTO up untill 1945 should be given priority over anything that didnt get to fly in WW2

let the initial release be the actual repilcation of the PTO & the extra awesome late 1945 planes come after its released

so that PF wont be in the same condition that FB was , & still is in , at its release

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-26-2004, 10:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:

Thor - Thanks for telling me im mental

i love you guys really<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

heywooood
07-26-2004, 10:39 PM
I believe this is what Penguin said many pages ago in this thread. And if FB is any yard stick at all, this is exactly what 1c does... 'focus on realistic planesets initially - then expand based on the customers voiced favorites in subsequent patches'... I don't know why we're still YELLING !!! its already been determined as evidenced by the existing sim. as FB went - so will go PF..simple.



http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/ac_32_1.jpg
"Check your guns"

BSS_Vidar
07-27-2004, 01:47 AM
Bummer, http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
I hope you're wrong there Heywood. I was kinda hopin' 1C learned from their mistakes with FB/AEP. Oleg sounds dedicated to recreating the PTO as best as he can for us historical re-enactor types. All the wacky stuff can go in the the IL-2/FB/AEP/PF version... hopefully. That's what IL-2/FB/AEP has turned into. A place to go and do "whatever".
Let's hope that Pacific Fighters stays as pure as the driven snow.

BSS_Vidar

Hoarmurath
07-27-2004, 05:53 AM
There is no problem having the bearcat in the sim... It is only if that we were given the choice, we would prefer to have planes that actually saw combat in this theater... Or as a matter of personnal preference, i would prefer to have "what if" planes who did fight somewhere else, and could have seen action in the pacific (but didn't for various reasons), than having planes that never saw combat in ww2... But at this point, it is really a matter of personnal preference.

I just hope that they will left aside as few of the planes of this theater as possible before considering inclusion of "what if"... It would make no sense imo to have bearcat instead of claude for example.

http://hoarmurath.free.fr/images/sighoar.jpg (http://hoarmurath.free.fr/files/internationale-ru.mp3)
56Kers are strongly advised to NOT click on my signature http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Atomic_Marten
07-27-2004, 07:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Hoarmurath:
I just hope that they will left aside as few of the planes of this theater as possible before considering inclusion of "what if"... It would make no sense imo to have bearcat instead of claude for example.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah... that's the main error considering plane set in FB IMO. We have flying wings and other wonders, but no flyable moranes, Ju88's, MiG1s, C.200's, I-15s or other... planes that actually flew there. Don't get me wrong I want them all, but priorities are priorities. Dmn I'm whinin' a lot lately...

BlitzPig_DDT
07-27-2004, 08:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellonet:
Have looked through most of the thread... man did I laugh at some points http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

So... DDT..

You dislike the idea of balancing the inclusion of plane A with plane B.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is not what I have said. Once again, the meaning, which should have been clear, was missed. Perhaps it's because it was not hidden? No innuendo or requirement for others to interpret anything. What I meant is what I said - claiming that another plane is required before that one is included is simply asinine. That does *not* mean that plane "b" should be kept out, or that anything is wrong with providing counterparts (so long as they are logical). But they are also not necessary either (He-100, case in point).



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You do not acknowledge the IL-2 series as a war simulation. According to you it's just a dogfight game with a few things on the side.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, it is you who do not acknowledge what the series has always been. To be a full blown war simulation, you need to have all flyable bombers (which IL2 didn't), all participating aircraft in at least AI form (which the series still does not have), and the means to alter the course of events.

The fact of the matter is, LucasArts' BoB was more of an air war simulation (though still falling short) than the IL2 series has ever been. IL2 has had a focus on the IL2 itself, and fighters. That's it. Eventually we got 2 bombers after people screamed loudly enough and long enough.

Actually, a solid offline campaign is another aspect of a war simulation, as is advanced AI to allow a world to live around you (a dynamic world, that won't be the same twice), and to behave as appropriate. Falcon 4 takes the cake there.

This is, and has always been, a WWII version of Lock On : Modern Air Combat (or it could be said that Lock On is a modern version of IL2 if one needs a lineage connection. Conceptually, it doesn't matter which way you look at it). The focus is air combat. And it's actually pretty obvious.

And just to be overly specific, as is required 'round here, that does not mean DogFight Servers are the only focus. Air combat and DF servers are not exclusively synonymous. Even COOPs still have the focus on air combat with the use of fighters, perhaps a little mud moving with fighter/bombers, or the IL2 (Stuka is the counterpart to the IL2, but even it wasn't flyable until people cried enough). COOP or not, too many things are still missing to call it an air war simulation.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You hate people who wants PF to prioritize, to WW2, historically important aircraft.

That about right?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. You still have trouble grasping the meaning of the words. You have not been honest and up front. You all have been stating that you know better than any that oppose you, and that anything you don't desire should be excluded because of your imagined importance. I have explicitly stated, on many occasions, that this would continue so long as you people kept your high and mighty attitude about "knowing" what is "best" for the game, refusing to accept that you simply wanted different planes for your own personal reasons. This has still not been understood. It can't be said any more clearly however.

Besides which, "historically important" can be argued 6 ways from Sunday till the end of time. Especially since you guys constantly change arguments in an apparent attempt to create a moving target. But let's not get sidetracked....



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Seriously though (not trying to ridicule you).. you seem full of hate, and you lash out at anyone expressing, what you think is, wrong ideas or wishes. Maybe you're only like that on the internet, if not, you do have a problem.

Don't hate me because I have other wishes than you.


- Yellonet<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your "wishes" have never been the problem (except for the wish to limit others - that is always a problem). It has been your attitude. (Yet again I must point out, direct, clear and concise statements have been ignored or misunderstood. See the last response section above.) Your desire to prevent others from having options. You claim to know better than anyone else. Your steadfast refusal to admit any of this, causing an 11 page thread that has been more than badsight can handle (poor guy. I can't believe nobody else cares about his desperate cries for help. For that matter, I still can't believe he is allowed on the internet un-chaparoned), culminating in a stance that is suddenly 180 degrees from what it has been all along, totally reeking of spin control, which is underhanded, and reprehensible.

And yes, I will get up in peoples faces for that behavior, even offline. People have no integrity today and it's sickening.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

Nanuk66
07-27-2004, 09:34 AM
I think what this thread needs is just a plain 'no'.

No DDT u cant have your Bearcat. Im TOTALLY anti-american and 100% communist (aint we all that disagree?!) and i say that you cant have your Bearcat.

My friend Oleg Maddox (who is TOTALLY anti-american and, of course, 100% Communist)both sat down and decided that we hate americans and EVERYTHING that they stand for and because of that we decided, after loads of commie vodka, that we are not gonna give in to more US 'mommy, i wanna go to the mall!' type whining.

So there you have it, the answer is a resounding NO on the Bearcat inclusion.

Hope that clears things up.

If you'd just asked nicely i coulda told you that on Page 1.

Oleg did want me to pass on an old Russian saying, which when translated, goes along the lines of ' Cry more you redneck hillybilly'.

Thanks for your time and effort in posting all the **** you have, and if you want some general abuse to be thrown back and forth (not regarding the Bearcat or anything else IL2 related) then bring it on mullet boy!

-----------------------------
English lesson 101:
The word is 'Lose' not 'Loose'. e.g.
That IL2 is gonna lose the fight against that 109.
That IL2's wing looks loose, its gonna fall off.
If i dive too vertically i will lose my wing. k thx.
------------------------------

BSS_Vidar
07-27-2004, 09:43 AM
General Quarters, General Quarters!!! All Hands man your Battle-stations! Missile hits: forward, a-mid-ships, and Aft! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

V

BlitzPig_DDT
07-27-2004, 10:54 AM
LMAO! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/lol_2.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

I LOVE how my sig always roots out the ignorant and gets them to reveal themselves in a dramatic fashion! http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/laugh.gif

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

Yellonet
07-27-2004, 01:21 PM
I have never said or implied that I know better than anyone else.

There you go again with the unfounded accusations... no point in even trying to talk to you DDT, but I forgive you, you really can't help being the way that you are.

You may have the last word, because we know you must.


- Yellonet

BlitzPig_DDT
07-27-2004, 02:28 PM
Why not? It's fun. lol You went 11 pages tryng to get it. lol

This is the point - You state it "should not" be included. You do not state you would like to see something else, or even that you would rather just not see that made available. You (and the others) did flips and twists trying to find an argument that would support your case, and it all revolved around some innate knowledge of what is best for the game - what everyone should be stuck with. Furthermore, it didn't end there. No, you and the others lambasted those who dared to disagree with you as being beneath you by clearly showing disdain for anyone that would wish to actually use them, should they be made available.

You see.....well, no. You DON'T see, and that is the problem. That is what this is about. You once again blithely deny your actions. I suppose it could be that you just don't realize what you are doing, though I hate to think about people being that dense. Even though I know it's a common thing, it still sucks.

Whether you like it or not, that is what you more than implied in your comments all along. Whether you are offended by it or not, that is not an unfounded accusation (as you put it), rather, it is, in fact, the truth.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

Snootles
07-27-2004, 04:21 PM
"Bearcat." So much suffering from one little word...

Sure, it would be a wicked addition to the fold. BUT given the choice between adding a "what-if" repertoire to PF or moving towards having all operational craft modeled, I'd pass on the what-iffers. Besides, it wouldn't have too much to DO given the state of Japanese air power by 1945.

Like I said, 1948 Berlin Crisis sim. Then you'd have all the Bearcat you could handle. Probably some Tigercat too.

huggy87
07-27-2004, 04:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
LMAO! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/lol_2.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

I LOVE how my sig always roots out the ignorant and gets them to reveal themselves in a dramatic fashion! http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/laugh.gif

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Blitzpig,
What is the flag to the left?

Gunner_361st
07-27-2004, 05:36 PM
My thoughts on the issue are that the important warhorses should have top priority with being modeled.

I also think to say "Oh, these aircraft will never be in here because they never fought in combat or were not finished being produced" is ridiculous as well.

It would be splendid to see a "what-if" expansion for PF, featuring the Bearcat and Shinden and all the other planes that could have fought in the war but didn't quite make it.

Thats just my perspective though.

Major Gunner of the 361st vFG

P.S. - I made it to page 4 of this thread before giving up and skipping to the end to post my thoughts. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://home.comcast.net/~smconlon/wsb/media/245357/site1087.jpg

SkyChimp
07-27-2004, 06:47 PM
My biggest consternation over adding the Bearcat is all the problems that would arise if the FM was wrong. Or even whether or not the FM could be made to be right. The Bearcat was a truly spectacular performer in all regards. Not many people can accept that. The thing climbed like a monkey, around 5,000 fpm initially. It was fast, over 435mph - 450mph depending on model. It dove well. It rolled exceptionally well - a first for Grumman fighters. It was approved for higher Gs (and lower Gs) than the Mustang. It accelerated well. It was the consummate piston engined fighter. There's no way it would ever be done right.

Regards,
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/signature.jpg

Snootles
07-27-2004, 09:37 PM
Yeah, one of the pinnacles of operational prop fighter design.

WUAF_Badsight
07-27-2004, 10:05 PM
Skychimp . . . . could you take the time to see if you have any info on its turn abilitys

& prehaps post it here . . ?

i can find its basics stats all over the WWW , but more detailed info is harder to find

.

as for moddeling it correct , sure you could

just imagine the best performing prop fighter ever & mold it into this shape : ))

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/clippa-Bearcat_goodv2.JPG

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-27-2004, 10:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NaNuK66:

"Oleg did want me to pass on an old Russian saying, which when translated, goes along the lines of . . . . . "
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


oh dude thats killer

100 % gold

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-27-2004, 10:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
for DDTs infomation that he is wrong about . . .

FB is a computer game that replicates the air-war that took place between Finland & Russia during WW2

it is not a online DF room host engine

that feature is a secondary added part for multiplay

as are other maps & planes that are outside this theater

aint we lucky http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes badsight , correct

which DDT is wrong about

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

BlitzPig_DDT
07-28-2004, 09:37 AM
Badsight, you still haven't found anyone that can read the posts to you and explain what they mean? I guess nobody cares about or for you. How sad. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

BlitzPig_DDT
07-28-2004, 09:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by huggy87:
Blitzpig,
What is the flag to the left?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Check out this thread - http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=124101424&r=390103424

It is basically all about the sig as it got hijacked. lol It's easier, and better, than simply explaining it in one post. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-28-2004, 10:09 PM
after having all your points showen to you as being wrong

after being showen why your attitude is misplaced & egotistical

after posting a lot of ingnorance & nonsence & abuse

you are left with personal attacks as your only option to reply with

you never had a point to begin with

you never had a point after you started

& you still dont have a point or see why your wrong

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
Badsight, you still haven't found anyone that can read the posts to you and explain what they mean?
How sad. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

huggy87
07-28-2004, 10:56 PM
I am dumber for having read this thread. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

I JG3 Troz
07-29-2004, 05:23 AM
I am with the historical group here... If it didn't see combat , it just shouldn't be included. I would much rather see flyable fighterbombers and even older junkier planes than a bunch of "what if" planes. (and before anyone carries on about the "what if" planes that are already in the game, i didn't ask for em, and i don't fly em).

For the longest time i thought that the Bearcat was an factual WWII combat plane, thank you CFS2. sheesh.

btw, u guys need to lighten up, lol http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

WOLFMondo
07-29-2004, 06:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SkyChimp:
My biggest consternation over adding the Bearcat is all the problems that would arise if the FM was wrong. Or even whether or not the FM could be made to be right. The Bearcat was a truly spectacular performer in all regards. Not many people can accept that. The thing climbed like a monkey, around 5,000 fpm initially. It was fast, over 435mph - 450mph depending on model. It dove well. It rolled exceptionally well - a first for Grumman fighters. It was approved for higher Gs (and lower Gs) than the Mustang. It accelerated well. It was the consummate piston engined fighter. There's no way it would ever be done right.

_Regards,_
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/signature.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bah! I see your Bearcat and I raise it with a Seafury. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Luthier could end all this now by saying only planes that will make it into this sim must have seen combat in WW2. If it didn't see combat its not going to be in this sim.

Since this is turning into a whine thread I've found a new smiley I'd like to see added to the list:

http://bill.nickdafish.com/waaah.gif

http://bill.nickdafish.com/sig/mondo.jpg
Wolfgaming.net. Where the Gameplay is teamplay (http://www.wolfgaming.net)
Home of WGNDedicated

BlitzPig_DDT
07-29-2004, 07:04 AM
Badsight, you are a perfect example of why people with mental deficiencies should not be allowed to surf the net unsupervised.

You are still stuck in your own world, clearly unable to read or understand the words in front of you. Thus, it is utterly futile to repeat, ad nauseum, how and why you are completely and totally incorrect. If the first several times had no effect, the next dozen won't either.

In fact, you won't understand this in all probablility either. And again, will take true pity as a personal attack. It will fill some inner need apparently.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

ZG77_Nagual
07-29-2004, 09:10 AM
It's true the Seafury would simply osterize a bearcat. Fact is the Bearcat is just a pathetic also-ran - it's reputation is entirely fabricated by weiner-brained dinguses like DDT who can't accept the fact that damn near every participant in either theatre that designed and built planes did it better than us Americans - not only that they flew em better and bragged less. The few half-way decent planes we did build were dreamed up by foreigners. America has allways been behind the curve in aviation - of course we overcome this by making MORE of freakin everything and lying about history. We're wannabes and ******s and we build **** - face it. &lt;throws beer across the lawn and climbs back on his japanese riding mower&gt;

BlitzPig_DDT
07-29-2004, 10:36 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

huggy87
07-29-2004, 11:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ZG77_Nagual:
It's true the Seafury would simply osterize a bearcat. Fact is the Bearcat is just a pathetic also-ran - it's reputation is entirely fabricated by weiner-brained dinguses like DDT who can't accept the fact that damn near every participant in either theatre that designed and built planes did it better than us Americans - not only that they flew em better and bragged less. The few half-way decent planes we did build were dreamed up by foreigners. America has allways been behind the curve in aviation - of course we overcome this by making MORE of freakin everything and lying about history. We're wannabes and ******s and we build **** - face it. &lt;throws beer across the lawn and climbs back on his japanese riding mower&gt;<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Behind the curve, huh. That is about the biggest troll I have ever read.

Resisting urge to bite. Must not bite...

huggy87
07-29-2004, 11:24 AM
Oh what the hell, I'll bite.

With quite a few exceptions, America did lag in military aircraft design until the early 1940's. We were hopeless in WW1 (had to borrow from the french) and our fighters were outclassed for the first 3-4 years of WW2.

That being said, from the 1930's america led the way in Bomber design. The B-10 paved the way for the B-17 and B-29, which were arguably the best strategic bombers of the war. America also produced some of the best tactical bombers of the war with the likes of the dauntless, B-25, and A-26.

Britain and Germany had a better jet program but America did eventually catch up in fighter technology and has led the way throughout the cold war until today.

On the civilian side of aviation, America has been the undisputed leader until today. From the Wright Brothers first flight, to the DC-3, to the 707 it has been american planes filling the worlds largest airports. Alas, Airbus has caught up and perhaps surpassed American commercial designs.

aminx
07-29-2004, 11:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
No. Its the F5U. Very interesting aircraft. 40MPH stall speed.

http://www.aerofiles.com/vot-xf5u.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
i you have finnished the Catalina including the cockpit and you have nothing else to do then why not get on with the VINDICATOR,DEVASTATOR or DAUNTLESS?
lets get the essentials in first.
aminx

http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v76/aminx/113.jpg

Snootles
07-29-2004, 03:29 PM
Oh man, now we're really throwing flames! Sure, I'll join in. Here goes...

I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU YOU STINK YOU STINK YOU STINK YOU STINK GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAA AAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111111111

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Thank you. The end.

By the way, weren't we supposed to be talking about the Bearcat? I don't know what we're doing now...