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Chuck_Older
03-27-2004, 01:19 PM
Hiya.

This is to follow up on a previous topic of mine. I'll try to add more to the issues this time


The primary problem as I see it:

P-51D markings for the USA in QMB are just plain odd. I have not looked for this in FMB with flayable a/c yet, but, the issues in QMB:

P-51B and C models: Sometimes, the ID letters/numbers are not positioned correctly. For example, the letter after the national insignia is much too high. In some cases, the other letters are in the wrong place. Annoying.

D models: when markings are "on", I get a number. Fair enough, but why??. On B and C models, there are correct ID markings. For example, if I choose a P-51B and select the 361st of the 375th, I get a squadron insignia, and correct letter code prefix. If I change to a D model, I get no squadron insignia and no letters, I get an "01". I really like the attention to detail present when I get the right ID markings, but it just doesn't exist on the P-51D for some reason.

I fear this is true of FMB as well. When I place a stationary plane, a P-51D, I get an "01" on it's side, while a B or C model will have ID prefix and suffix. I haven't tried this in airborne a/c yet, but at least in stationary a/c, there is this unaccountable numerical system for US planes that should have at least an ID prefix in front of the national insignia.

This has become an issue- I can't use the 'squadron' option to put a prefix on the D models, but I can do this with the B and C. My US forces are in a quandry and look very untidy http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Actually, it is ruining a mission I'm making because this glaring inconsistency draws the eye in my opinion, and also, this problem just shouldn't even exist.

What's up with this? Can this be rectified? I haven't started a begging thread with the words, "Oleg fix" in it's topic about this ID problem...yet http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif But I can learn http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

*****************************
Wave bub-bub-bub-bye to the boss, it's your profit, it's his loss~ Clash

Chuck_Older
03-27-2004, 01:19 PM
Hiya.

This is to follow up on a previous topic of mine. I'll try to add more to the issues this time


The primary problem as I see it:

P-51D markings for the USA in QMB are just plain odd. I have not looked for this in FMB with flayable a/c yet, but, the issues in QMB:

P-51B and C models: Sometimes, the ID letters/numbers are not positioned correctly. For example, the letter after the national insignia is much too high. In some cases, the other letters are in the wrong place. Annoying.

D models: when markings are "on", I get a number. Fair enough, but why??. On B and C models, there are correct ID markings. For example, if I choose a P-51B and select the 361st of the 375th, I get a squadron insignia, and correct letter code prefix. If I change to a D model, I get no squadron insignia and no letters, I get an "01". I really like the attention to detail present when I get the right ID markings, but it just doesn't exist on the P-51D for some reason.

I fear this is true of FMB as well. When I place a stationary plane, a P-51D, I get an "01" on it's side, while a B or C model will have ID prefix and suffix. I haven't tried this in airborne a/c yet, but at least in stationary a/c, there is this unaccountable numerical system for US planes that should have at least an ID prefix in front of the national insignia.

This has become an issue- I can't use the 'squadron' option to put a prefix on the D models, but I can do this with the B and C. My US forces are in a quandry and look very untidy http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Actually, it is ruining a mission I'm making because this glaring inconsistency draws the eye in my opinion, and also, this problem just shouldn't even exist.

What's up with this? Can this be rectified? I haven't started a begging thread with the words, "Oleg fix" in it's topic about this ID problem...yet http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif But I can learn http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

*****************************
Wave bub-bub-bub-bye to the boss, it's your profit, it's his loss~ Clash

VW-IceFire
03-27-2004, 02:14 PM
Yeah this is something else that would be kind of neat. P-47's and the P-51D's don't have the letter code system that the P-51B and C do along with the B-17's and other types of aircraft.

There's also a bug on the P-51D-20 markings where if the US markings are selected its the same as the P-51D-5 but if any other type of marking are selected its a yellow cherckertail marking (sans US insignia). Now thats definately a bug.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

Chuck_Older
03-27-2004, 02:51 PM
Hmm, hadn't noticed that one yet.

It seems unfortunate to me that the marking system is already in place, and it can't be used on the D model...it wouldn't be much of a problem for me if we could change default skins.

*****************************
Wave bub-bub-bub-bye to the boss, it's your profit, it's his loss~ Clash

Chuck_Older
03-28-2004, 01:26 PM
Arrrgh...spending hours putting little numerals and ID numbers on Mustangs in the last two days...I have 2 almost done http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

*****************************
Wave bub-bub-bub-bye to the boss, it's your profit, it's his loss~ Clash

VVS-Manuc
03-28-2004, 03:37 PM
BUMP for correct mustang markings http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

Chuck_Older
03-30-2004, 08:40 AM
shamelessly bumping my own topic

*****************************
Wave bub-bub-bub-bye to the boss, it's your profit, it's his loss~ Clash

Chuck_Older
03-31-2004, 12:49 PM
fully prepared to bump this back to page one until the end of time http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

*****************************
Wave bub-bub-bub-bye to the boss, it's your profit, it's his loss~ Clash

Chuck_Older
04-01-2004, 03:01 PM
just here to punch my timecard

*****************************
Wave bub-bub-bub-bye to the boss, it's your profit, it's his loss~ Clash

Chuck_Older
04-03-2004, 10:51 AM
Who is the man, who would give his life for a brother man? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

*****************************
Punk Rockers in the UK, they won't notice anyway. They're all too busy fighting for a good place under the lighting~ Clash

20thFG-PirAnha
04-03-2004, 03:29 PM
Yes, the Regiment markings do not go on any of the P-51D's but they do on the P-51B & C and also on P-38s. This must be fixed.

Col.PirAnha CO of the 77thFS "Gamblers"

"Terror of the Skies"

Oso2323
04-03-2004, 04:27 PM
Agreeing with Chuck - 100%.

It might help Oleg if you attach some screenshots - I don't know how though.

3.JG51_BigBear
04-03-2004, 09:02 PM
Just doing my part to keep this topic towards the top. That checkered tail P-51D is sweet but not being able to use the American markings is a real bummer.

Chuck_Older
04-04-2004, 02:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Who is the man, who would give his life for a brother man? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Shaft!

can ya dig it?

*****************************
Punk Rockers in the UK, they won't notice anyway. They're all too busy fighting for a good place under the lighting~ Clash

Chuck_Older
04-06-2004, 04:03 PM
That Shaft is one mean mother fushut your mouth!

...just talking 'bout Shaft...

*****************************
Punk Rockers in the UK, they won't notice anyway. They're all too busy fighting for a good place under the lighting~ Clash

Chuck_Older
04-08-2004, 10:26 AM
bumpa

*****************************
Punk Rockers in the UK, they won't notice anyway. They're all too busy fighting for a good place under the lighting~ Clash

Chuck_Older
04-10-2004, 11:24 AM
James Brown loves you, you lucky so-and-so

*****************************
Get your car outta that gear ~ Clash

VVS-Manuc
04-12-2004, 02:22 PM
support this by a BUMP

Chuck_Older
04-12-2004, 02:53 PM
We'll wear 'em down, Manuc. You just wait and see. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

*****************************
Get your car outta that gear ~ Clash

20thFG-PirAnha
04-13-2004, 04:45 PM
bump

Col.PirAnha CO of the 77thFS "Gamblers"

"Terror of the Skies"

Chuck_Older
04-16-2004, 05:26 PM
Soon, ALL will enjoy correct ID marks on D model P-51s.

[swinging pocke****ch in front of Oleg's face]


...you are getting sleepy, very, very sleepy...

*****************************
Get your car outta that gear ~ Clash

Chuck_Older
04-16-2004, 05:31 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

if you type in "pocket watch" as one word, it gets editted with some asterisks! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif


"pocket_watch" (without the understrike) is my editted word. I wonder what the filter thinks I typed? Also, I cannot edit it! I got two page loading errors and a bunch of HTML gibberish when I tried http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

*****************************
Get your car outta that gear ~ Clash

TXTeenPilot
04-17-2004, 11:49 PM
That yellow/black checkered "Number 77" P-51 would be an awesome scheme to have... complete with that font and yellow outline of the number.

P.S.: Pocke****ch http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://img26.photobucket.com/albums/v77/TexanTeenPilot/TBTSig.jpg

SUPERAEREO
04-18-2004, 12:15 PM
P-51 D's have numbers not letters because USAAF Squadrons in the Med theatre (from where shuttle missions were flown against targets in Eastern Europe) did not use squadron codes but plane-in-group numbers as a main identifier, with the exception of squadrons that had been detached from the UK on a temporary basis.

Since the P-51 appeared in FB in order to represent USAAF incursions in Eastern Europe, and before we had any Western European map, the fuselage numbers make sense.

When the P-51 B/C versions were introduced we already had a Normandy map, hence the correct letter codes of UK-based units.

I guess that having a letter-coded D model would require a totally new option in the QMB/FMB.

S!



"The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down."
Chuck Yaeger

VW-IceFire
04-18-2004, 02:54 PM
Interesting info...I always wondered why they used numbers only in this game and yet the lettering system was fully implemented.

I kinda hope they change that...

Was the same true of P-47's? Because they should, in the ETO, have a three letter system and not numbers. At least no 8th Airforce (or 9th) that I've seen used straight numbers...they had unit codes.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

Chuck_Older
04-18-2004, 06:08 PM
SuperAero- Thank you for your input, but:

US aircraft in the med did NOT have just numbers.


It is photographically without doubt a fact that P-51Bs (and Spitfires) in US service from the Med had unit prefix and suffix markings similar to ETO units.

As proof, I direct you to a Book titled "Woodbine Red Leader" by George Loving, jr.
His planes were prefixed "WZ" (even his Mustang)
He was a Spitfire and Mustang pilot for the US in the Med and Italy.[edit- Loving's Mustang is even available as a download from Il*2Skins. Fury has a nice "Ginger", coded "WZ*D", Loving's Mustang]


He also CLEARLY states that 4th fighter group, 8th airforce pilots contributed to joint missions not only with his group in the USSR, but also in operations independent of his group, in the Soviet Union. They certainly had prefix and suffix ID as was the norm in the ETO.

I understand what you are saying, but the fact is, I can prefix code a C model P-51 "E2" by choosing the correct squadron, but I cannot do the same to a D model. An oversight? Yes. Would I like it corrected (as is the case with B and C models)? Of course.

Being that the Soviet Union to my knowledge had zero P-51Ds in inventory, I find it in error that P-51Ds are not coded correctly for units of the USAAF that actually DID fly out of bases in the Soviet Union- the only P-51Ds that flew missions out of the Soviet Union, to the best of my knowledge and research. So numbers for these aircraft is incorrect.

*****************************
The hillsides ring with, "Free the People",
Or can I hear the echoes from the days of '39?
~ Clash

[This message was edited by Chuck_Older on Sun April 18 2004 at 05:21 PM.]

VW-IceFire
04-18-2004, 07:33 PM
For the P-47's too please!

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

SUPERAEREO
04-19-2004, 03:21 AM
@Chuck_Older:

Chuck, in my posting I simplified the issue: USAAF units in North Africa and Sicily DID have letter codes, and so did some squadrons that were detached to Italy later, but in 1944, when most of the escorts to missions Eastern Europe were flown, it was the NORM for 15th AF units to use plane-in-group numbers.

The aim of my post was just to show that numbers on USAAF fighters were not totally unjustified, but would instead have been commonly encountered in the skies of eastern Europe.

Said that, I agree with you and the others that it would add a lot to the sim's realism to have the option of displaying 8th and 9th AF letter codes onto the P-51 and the P-47.

S!



"The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down."
Chuck Yaeger

Chuck_Older
04-19-2004, 07:11 AM
Oh, I understand. I wasn't using caps to shout, I couldn't be bothered to italicize some of the words http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I agree 100% that number markings on some of these D model aircraft in FB is correct, but I can't see the logic in making the coding system different on the P-51D only. The units that used numbers could just have easily had a C model Mustang with a number, but that isn't how the C or B moidel is represented in the sim. To me, this indicates a simple oversight rather than an attempt at making marking accuracy.

*****************************
The hillsides ring with, "Free the People",
Or can I hear the echoes from the days of '39?
~ Clash

SUPERAEREO
04-19-2004, 05:31 PM
Not to worry Chuck, I had not taken any offence http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

My best guess is that Oleg and 1C are too busy with the development of PF and BoB to address these issues in FB, and for us it can be a tad disappointing sometimes, but they have to churn out new stuff in order to sell games and pay their mortgages... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Still, we never know, they might find the spare time to fix it...

S!



"The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down."
Chuck Yaeger

Chuck_Older
04-23-2004, 03:23 PM
I hope so. Then I can stop bumping this thread

*****************************
The hillsides ring with, "Free the People",
Or can I hear the echoes from the days of '39?
~ Clash

Chuck_Older
04-28-2004, 04:00 PM
Pow! To the Moon

*****************************
The hillsides ring with, "Free the People",
Or can I hear the echoes from the days of '39?
~ Clash

Chuck_Older
05-01-2004, 04:09 PM
pocke****ch http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

*****************************
The hillsides ring with, "Free the People",
Or can I hear the echoes from the days of '39?
~ Clash

Chuck_Older
05-04-2004, 06:09 PM
Betcha thought I'd gotten tired of bumping every couple days http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

*****************************
The hillsides ring with, "Free the People",
Or can I hear the echoes from the days of '39?
~ Clash

Skycat_2
05-05-2004, 10:40 PM
Chuck, I think I know what the deal is with Pocket_Watch not making it past the filter ... Think "Pocke****ch." Remember, filters look for strings of characters. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Regarding P-51D markings, I posted this at SimHQ a few days ago:

"I was just playing around with custom skins on the P-51D-20NA in QMB, and I noticed a few things that might be considered 'bug like':

1. First, I selected the 4th FG skin -- I'm pretty sure it came with AEP -- and noticed that it is really the 332nd FG/100th FS/15th AF skin with the 4th FG/8th AF patch on the side. (The 332nd FG is the famed "Tuskegee Airmen," and an example of the 4th FG appears as "Ridge Runner" on the first CFS box. They both have red markings on the nose).
2. In 'Regiments' listing, the 332nd FG is listed four times as a squadron, with each of its squadrons listed as a group (IE: 332nd FS/ 99th FG).
3. Sometimes the 4th FG/8th AF doesn't appear as a listing when you start by choosing P-51D-5NT."

Skycat_2
05-05-2004, 10:48 PM
Oh, but as for why the P-51D's only get numbers for markings, I think that it is a carry over from when they were still AI-only aircraft in FB and represented 325th FG/15th Air Force ("Checkertail Clan") Mustangs flying raid missions into Hungary. Take a look at this profile: http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/1999/12/stuff_eng_profile_mustang2.htm

But I agree the markings should be updated now that the Mustang is flyable, we've got the Normandy and Ardennes maps, and there are options for 8th and 9th Air Force fighter groups in the Regiments menu.

Chuck_Older
05-06-2004, 10:29 AM
Skycat- I agree about the number system. It's buried in this thread somewhere, but since the B and C models are accurately marked, I must assume that the D model markings were not updated in AEP, and therefore this whole number system is an oversight...but I still would like it corrected http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I haven't noticed the other issues you mention, but then again, I wasn't looking. It seems there are a number of problems concerning the D model Mustang

*****************************
The hillsides ring with, "Free the People",
Or can I hear the echoes from the days of '39?
~ Clash

Chuck_Older
05-09-2004, 05:37 PM
Talent is worth waiting for~
Joe Strummer

*****************************
The hillsides ring with, "Free the People",
Or can I hear the echoes from the days of '39?
~ Clash

ElAurens
05-09-2004, 07:32 PM
All the allied markings need a going over. The RAF ones are incorrect, as are the USAAF ones.


Happy to bump this, as it needs to be fixed.

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

BlitzPig_EL

VW-IceFire
05-10-2004, 04:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:
All the allied markings need a going over. The RAF ones are incorrect, as are the USAAF ones.


Happy to bump this, as it needs to be fixed.

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

__BlitzPig_EL__<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
At least they decided to paint the USAAF ones on the 38/47/51 (etc.) onto the actual skin. They should have done that for the RAF ones as well...because they are quite wrong (color and type especially) and should just have been done on the skin.

Maybe one of the many delays on the patch will fix this. That'd be nice!

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

SKIDRO_79FS
05-10-2004, 10:07 PM
Oh, what the he**, a bump for the sake of the P-51!

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/SKIDRO-signatureimg.jpg
VICTORY BY VALOR, GENTLEMEN TO THE END

Extreme_One
05-11-2004, 05:16 AM
FYI il2matmanger ( www.acesartwork.co.uk (http://www.acesartwork.co.uk) )has got a semi-solution to this little problem...

P-38s P-39s P-40s P-47s & P-51Ds all using letter ID codes. (as made by yours truly http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

OK So it isn't the ideal solution but it is better than seeing the numbers

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the USAAF & RAF campaign folders here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-10.html).

Download "North and South" including the Japanese speech-pack here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-12.html). *NEW*

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/simplysimon-spit_sig.jpg

Chuck_Older
05-11-2004, 07:36 AM
Cool beans, thanks!

*****************************
The hillsides ring with, "Free the People",
Or can I hear the echoes from the days of '39?
~ Clash

Chuck_Older
05-15-2004, 06:39 PM
I haven't let this die yet http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

*****************************
The hillsides ring with, "Free the People",
Or can I hear the echoes from the days of '39?
~ Clash

Chuck_Older
05-28-2004, 03:14 PM
I didn't forget

*****************************
The hillsides ring with, "Free the People",
Or can I hear the echoes from the days of '39?
~ Clash

Chuck_Older
05-30-2004, 06:54 AM
I also should mention-

The problem is even odder if you consider that a P-51D marked as British will get a three alpha-numeric ID code, while a US P-51D gets a number.

*****************************
The hillsides ring with, "Free the People",
Or can I hear the echoes from the days of '39?
~ Clash

Extreme_One
05-30-2004, 06:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
I also should mention-

The problem is even odder if you consider that a P-51D marked as British will get a three alpha-numeric ID code, while a US P-51D gets a number.

*****************************
The hillsides ring with, "Free the People",
Or can I hear the echoes from the days of '39?
~ Clash
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah I noticed that too.
The capability is there it's just that 'they' haven't implemented it properly.

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the USAAF & RAF campaign folders here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-10.html).

Download "North and South" including the Japanese speech-pack here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-12.html). *NEW*

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/simplysimon-Ex_1_sig.jpg

Chuck_Older
06-03-2004, 03:51 PM
I am like a Pitbull with lockjaw

*****************************
The hillsides ring with, "Free the People",
Or can I hear the echoes from the days of '39?
~ Clash

Chuck_Older
08-18-2004, 10:33 AM
IT LIVES http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

I double dog dare you to fix this ID code mistake, Oleg! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/myp51.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash

Chuck_Older
08-18-2004, 04:35 PM
These are all pics of default skin P-51Ds (-20 models) with various unit ID markings put on by FB

Here's an RAF Mustang with game generated ID codes (That's Mark Hanna behind the stick http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/RAFp51d.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash

Chuck_Older
08-18-2004, 04:39 PM
Here's a VVS Mustang, codes put on by FB

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/VVSp51d.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash

Chuck_Older
08-18-2004, 04:42 PM
Here's a US Army Air Force P-51D with codes put on by FB, for the 360th fighter group (the panes in my signature's group). Notice it's a number, and very much in a strange place. P-51s in the Pacific and some in the Med used numbers, but I chose a unit from the ETO, which should use the RAF style code:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/AAFp51d.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash

Chuck_Older
08-18-2004, 04:42 PM
Lastly, a Free French P-51D with code generated by FB:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/FFp51d.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash

Chuck_Older
08-18-2004, 04:45 PM
here's a couple last odd things:

All are default skins. But the USAAF skin's default is different from the other's, even though they are all -20 P-51Ds.

The Unit Insignia graphics do not appear on the P-51D when you choose a unit (Yes, I have markings "ON" in all these pics http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif )


The unit markings for the US P-51Ds are incorrect, but the correct system is in place for the RAF Mustangs

This is a simple oversight and should be corrected.

Postscript:

I'm gonna bump this thread till I die http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash

[This message was edited by Chuck_Older on Wed August 18 2004 at 03:57 PM.]

ASH at S-MART
08-18-2004, 04:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
The unit markings for the US P-51Ds are incorrect, but the correct system is in place for the RAF Mustangs<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Than it should be simple! In that they have the code done.. They just need to use the RAF code! It would sure be nice if they fixxed this! It is anoying to say the least.. And it is not like we are asking them to do something that has not been done.. it is done.. They just need to use the RAF method and toss the code they have for the US stuff.

PS chuck.. you should post those pic in an email to Oleg as a bug.. Just post the RAF and US ones to show that they are allready doing it.. So it should be a simple mater to point to the RAF method.. That and a few REAL pictures showing the US marknigs

http://www.mustangsmustangs.net/p-51/p51pics/military/8thaf/8.jpg

ASH HOUSEWARES GROOVY (http://www.garnersclassics.com/wavs/army/groovy.wav)
http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionsmovie/ash.jpg

Chuck_Older
08-18-2004, 04:59 PM
Should be exceedingly simple, Ash. I just hope it gets done. The B model has no problems with codes or unit insignia display. Looks like a very minor but glaring error nobody caught during QC.

Hopefully Oleg and Co. still lurk ORR


I think i will e-mail Oleg. I know it's been mentioned before that he can be contacted, or that I can contact someone to contact him


By the way-

The pilot of that P-51D in your post was a man by the name of Thomas Christain. He was killed on 8/12/44. I was born on 8/12/71. Kinda freaky, but I loved the P-51 and the planes from his unit long before I even knew who the pilot of E2*C was


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash

ASH at S-MART
08-18-2004, 05:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Should be exceedingly simple, Ash. I just hope it gets done. The B model has no problems with codes or unit insignia display. Looks like a very minor but glaring error nobody caught during QC.

Hopefully Oleg and Co. still lurk ORR

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You do have Oleg's email address? If not someone here has it for sure.. It is the one you are supose to send BUG LISTS too.. You should do it!! Oleg actually reads them! Send him the links to those two pics along with some real pics.. Im sure he will SEE the problem and if easy fix it!!

ASH HOUSEWARES GROOVY (http://www.garnersclassics.com/wavs/army/groovy.wav)
http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionsmovie/ash.jpg

Chuck_Older
08-18-2004, 05:05 PM
Looking into it now http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash

ASH at S-MART
08-18-2004, 06:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Looking into it now http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>PS be sure to mention that the P51C is fine! Maybe they can simply use that code for the D model? That.. and doesnt the P47 have this same problem?

ASH HOUSEWARES GROOVY (http://www.garnersclassics.com/wavs/army/groovy.wav)
http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionsmovie/ash.jpg

KSS_Shrike_UK
08-20-2004, 06:04 AM
have a day off chuck.

Bump

I support all markings improvements http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Shrike
Joint Squadron Leader
Kindred Spirits Squadron
kss.dogfighters.net

Chuck_Older
08-23-2004, 10:30 AM
Haven't been able to get in touch with Oleg yet- PC is sick.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash

ASH at S-MART
08-23-2004, 01:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Haven't been able to get in touch with Oleg yet- PC is sick.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>sick? as in no email? just open up a free yahoo email account and send it from there!

ASH HOUSEWARES GROOVY (http://www.garnersclassics.com/wavs/army/groovy.wav)
http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionsmovie/ash.jpg

Chuck_Older
08-24-2004, 10:32 AM
I'm sorta in a catch-22 at the moment- my work PC is fine and has a high speed connection, but my e-mail will have so many pics in it (at least 4) that the company filter won't allow me to send it (I guess they think anyone who sends more than 2 pics in an e-mail is a child pornographer), and my home PC is probably infected with a nasty virus and is a 56.6 dialup to boot. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif SO I need to solve my home PC problems first, and I'm busy as heck at work, and with my other interest (hot rods and muscle cars) when I'm not at work.

I don't want to send just a link to this thread, I want to send the pics as an attachment.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash

ASH at S-MART
08-24-2004, 09:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
I don't want to send just a link to this thread, I want to send the pics as an attachment.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>But.. anything is better than nothing.. And the sooner the better.. Oleg typically replys.. with a short comment.. So you know if he got it..

Not 100% sure.. but.. I guess you could try emailing yourself.. But do it in html format and I think you can display them in your email just like they do here in the froum..

Never tried it.. But I get alot of porn ads that seem to make use of that! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ASH HOUSEWARES GROOVY (http://www.garnersclassics.com/wavs/army/groovy.wav)
http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionsmovie/ash.jpg

Chuck_Older
09-28-2004, 06:13 PM
I cannot find Oleg's addy! So, after forgetting about a dozen times, I dredged this thread up.

Why? I'm a jerk, that's why. Happy? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

KSS_Shrike_UK
10-06-2004, 05:47 AM
Correct me if im wrong, but we are talking also of P47-D, and that it should have GB markings as numbers?

check this link first

http://www.griffon.clara.net/42/42p47.htm

Copperhead310th
10-06-2004, 07:20 AM
yes they should also have GB & RAAF markings and numbers. (Thunderbolt Mk I & Mk II)

I hate i got in this thread so late.
Some months ago i aproached luthier with this
problem. Id markings for the USAAF were differnt for almost every theater, and varried from AF to AF. here are some examples.

Europe:8th 9th AF id codes- AB C
http://www.web-birds.com/8th/356/011_11.JPG
Med: 15th & 12th AF id codes- 22 & AB C
325th Fg
http://www.web-birds.com/15th/325/325-02.jpg
52nd FG
http://www.web-birds.com/15th/52/qp.jpg
Pacific: 7th & 13th AF ID codes- 123
18th FG 13 AF
http://www.web-birds.com/13th/18th/profile_p38.jpg
457th FS 7th Af
http://www.7thfighter.com/457th/photos/images/541.jpg

(Off topic but heres a nice pic of a P-47D with HVAR OLEG!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif are those 1000 lbs bombs under the wings?!http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
7th FS 318th Fg 7th AF- Iwo Jima
http://www.web-birds.com/7th/318/P-47.JPG

South West Pacific: 5th AF
58th FG id codes- H34

What there really needs to be on the arming screen for id codes is a 4 didgit alpha numeric box that you can type in the id codes.
But most likely Olegs response will be "paint them on" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

JG53Frankyboy
10-06-2004, 07:59 AM
im with you having HVARs in late P-47Ds .
but these shown Jugs more square wingtipps looks like P-47N , that sure would be also nice in PF http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ASH at S-MART
10-06-2004, 09:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
im with you having HVARs in late P-47Ds .
but these shown Jugs more square wingtipps looks like P-47N , that sure would be also nice in PF http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Looking at the new PF pictures of the Mustang they have still not fixxed the US markings! Has anyone sent Oleg a letter on this yet? ie offically sent it to the bug list email addr that oleg reads?

VW-IceFire
10-06-2004, 01:38 PM
I don't think they have yet shown us what they are doing with skins for aircraft in the PTO and ETO theaters.

I mean, we've seen shots from the development where they are flying (say at Guadalcanal) and they are wearing D-Day colors and 8th AirForce markings.

I love the D-Day markings, but not in the PTO http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Hopefully they pay some attention to default skins for the theaters that they serve in. That'd be very nice.

ASH at S-MART
10-07-2004, 12:43 AM
Hey check this out

http://www.pacific-fighters.com/en/comscreens.php

Did they fix the US markings? Or are those painted skins? Look at this one.. It does NOT look like it is part of the sking

http://www.pacific-fighters.com/en/screenshots/EX1_355th.jpg

Hard to tell one this one.. It may be a skin?
http://www.pacific-fighters.com/en/screenshots/REDNOSE_002.jpg

My guess is they are just skins though.. In that they are missiions that we can download http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Chuck_Older
10-12-2004, 07:31 PM
Ash-

In the top pic, that is generated in-game, with correct markings, but in an odd place behind the star and bar. Actually, that pic is from Extreme_One's "Two little DUCs" campaign, I suspect, and it uses custom skins with game generated code ID markings

The problem with Mustang markings only exists on the D model, for some bizarre reason.

I mean, yes, some P-51s had numbers, OK. But we have P-51Bs and Cs in FB, right now, that have NO numbers at all, they have the correct unit three code alphanumeric markings. Try it out, it's kind of cool- as you change the unit, the unit insignia and the code letters change on C and B model P-51s.

But it's like on the D model, something got overlooked. Not only can you not display the unit insignia, but no code letter alphanumerics, just numbers (crummy ones at that!)

On the bottom pic, I think that's just a nice skin


Who has a link to the bug report list? Post it and I will get in touch with Oleg via the bug report lists if I have a little time. Right now I am starting work at 6 or 7 AM and not coming home till 7 or 8 PM, so making a coherent e-mail outlining this P-51D marking problem is going to be somethign that requires a fair amount of effort that my somnambulistic mind cannot handle at the moment http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Chuck_Older
11-21-2005, 04:01 PM
Since I last posted about this 13 months ago, this still isn't resolved

P-51Ds have incorrect unit insignia, even if ETO units are selected in the FMB

Sockeye45
11-21-2005, 07:16 PM
Its funny that I bump into this thread, because I was wondering about this very topic myself last week, and came up with a possible solution, that while not the best way, could be a way.

Using Aces MAT Manager, you'll notice that certain aircraft are put into certain groupings, using the MAT files. I was thinking a category for European P-51Ds could be added to this program. The MAT files could point to two seperate .tga's; one being the squadron code, say "MX" in front of the insignia, while the second being the aircraft ID behind. Since its fairly easy to adjust the letters using Notepad, I don't really see that part being a problem other than doing it for all the required squadrons.

A downside I see, though, is that the P-51Ds are grouped together with aircraft such as the A-20, and F4U, so I think that these aircraft would also have the same markings. I could be wrong though.

Actually, I could be wrong about the whole thing, but a bump's a bump http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BM357_Hitcher
11-22-2005, 07:37 AM
I am fully supportive of this issue being fixed in a near future patch! Of course, that means nothing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

tomtheyak
11-22-2005, 09:20 AM
I actually emailed the Ic team about this and a related issue twice. So far NADA.

Not only do the -51Ds lack codes but even those we do have for the B/C are wrong on ceratin aircraft. 328thFS of the 352ndFG for example has the 6N of one of the 339thFGs squadrons.

Also some RAF squads have the wromg codes also.

Besides this, whole FGs and their squadrons have got mixed up in the scroll down list you are presented with when choosing a squadron.
Look for the 355th or 359th FG entries - they're royally buggâŁred, the squadrons and the FG designations are completely mixed up.

Its a shame that someone cant take the time to correct these. Its a miniscule issue in the greater scheme of things, but for something that could be rectified quickly....

As for the MAT files that the D & B ponies use why can't they just reprogram them to have the C variants (which don't have the odd looking too high placed a/c letter)

Chuck_Older
11-22-2005, 10:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sockeye45:

A downside I see, though, is that the P-51Ds are grouped together with aircraft such as the A-20, and F4U, so I think that these aircraft would also have the same markings. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This seems logical, until you consider that the P-51D was in the sim long before the F4U or the A-20. It's not because of PF aircraft codes at all

Sockeye45
11-23-2005, 12:55 AM
Obviously a mistake of mine; I read about the MAT groupings quite some time ago, so my memory faded. Bringing up MAT Manager just now, I see the P-51D is grouped with the P-38 and P-47. Silly confusion on my part.

Anyways, my point being, if 1C doesn't put in a fix, then Aces Artwork could be a possible solution. So I imagine that all hope isn't lost, if an alternative would be suitable.

ElAurens
11-23-2005, 05:13 AM
Mat-manager is fine for offline, but for those of us who are primarily online flyers is is not an option as it is not global. It's tweeks are only visible on the user's computer, not for everyone in a DF or co-op.

The markings issue really needs to be addressed by the developers in the form of proper default skins, and aircraft markings, and proper default national markings. the US ones remain terrible.

Krt_Bong
11-23-2005, 07:03 AM
Not only do th codes look wrong but the US markings when added to any other a/c are reminiscent of the cheap little stickers that you find on dime store toy planes, the star extends beyond the blue background and generally looks cheesy, British markings are hardly better but because they changed in size and design during the course of the war one cant expect to change them all but I would like to see them upgraded or tweaked as it were

Chuck_Older
11-23-2005, 02:19 PM
Well, true. But they were actually an after-thought, after all. I'd like to see them fixed myself

Also, the unit insignia will not show on P-51Ds last time I checked http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Plus, I think my old sig pic was pretty cool

Chuck_Older
11-23-2005, 02:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
Mat-manager is fine for offline, but for those of us who are primarily online flyers is is not an option as it is not global. It's tweeks are only visible on the user's computer, not for everyone in a DF or co-op.

The markings issue really needs to be addressed by the developers in the form of proper default skins, and aircraft markings, and proper default national markings. the US ones remain terrible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

here's the killer, El:

Fire up the QMB. Select a P-51D, over a Pcific map. Check the default skin.

Now exit the dogfight, and change it to Smolensk. Check the default skin now. Looks like a 361st skin, doesn't it?

There's already more than one default skin for the P-51D! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif But neither will carry correct codes, while, say, Luftwaffe aircraft have a system that is generally correct and actually fairly complex

P-51 markings need an overhaul. It actually shouldn't take much time. I can make splashscreens and medals for this sim; I'm sure I could make a much better decal graphic for the US national insignia than is currently shown, and in under two hours, and it would be child's play to look up correct unit codes; littlefriends.uk and armyairforces.com spring immediately to mind as reliable info just in the online arena.

MAT manager is great, I'm glad it exists. My downloads never worked, I tried twice. But regardless of MAT manager's functionality, the sim really needs to have this addressed in-house

VW-IceFire
11-23-2005, 05:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Krt_Bong:
Not only do th codes look wrong but the US markings when added to any other a/c are reminiscent of the cheap little stickers that you find on dime store toy planes, the star extends beyond the blue background and generally looks cheesy, British markings are hardly better but because they changed in size and design during the course of the war one cant expect to change them all but I would like to see them upgraded or tweaked as it were </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Unfortunately at the moment at least the major USAAF types get a on skin marking. Of the RAF types only the Tempest, Corsair Mark I/II/IV, and Beaufighter get any sort of on skin marking. In other instances we deal with improperly colored, placed, setup RAF markings.

While RAF markings did change a fair bit, they did not change significantly from 1941 through 1945. Infact, during this period little changed on RAF aircraft except the addition of the invasion stripes markings, and at the very end of the war higher visibility markings as more danger was coming from friendly AAA than enemy fighters. So while I would never expect a game to properly model all markings variations...a standard one would do.

I have talked to Oleg, so I've said my bit, and not much has changed so far. Its a backburner item and I just hope they fix things up better in the future.

goshikisen
11-23-2005, 08:06 PM
How about the markings on the A6M? Garish and totally wrong. Hopefully some time is spent correcting the markings on the aircraft. Bump for the Mustang (and Reisen).

VW-IceFire
11-23-2005, 09:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by goshikisen:
How about the markings on the A6M? Garish and totally wrong. Hopefully some time is spent correcting the markings on the aircraft. Bump for the Mustang (and Reisen). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Absolutely...thats definately another example.

And yet some other aircraft are just fine...like the Ki-100 or J2M3 which have very decent looking generic skins.

LameDuck.
11-25-2005, 10:01 AM
Bumpity bump bump http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

I want better D markings, too.

FatBoyHK
11-29-2005, 10:08 AM
OHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

I always wondered why I can't have the correct marking on my P-51D, while I see people have them (on other plane model) when I fly online.

And I almost never fly other plane other than my beloved mustang D....

I asked several time in the GD forum about how to select the correct ID for my mustang, but people don't understand why I can't do it.... Yes it is simple on other plane....

Finally, I found out why....haha http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Chuck_Older
12-03-2005, 09:15 AM
I started this thread a long time ago, and I still haven't read one word from anyone close to the source of the issues http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

danjama
12-07-2005, 06:00 AM
OK im in, better P51D markings please. Numbers are not realistic and are boring!

Chuck_Older
12-14-2005, 09:59 AM
Well, they are realistic for PTO/MTO units

However, ETO markings should be available to ETO units listed in the FMB- and they are not

Two default skins exist for the P-51D, one for PF and one for AEP, I assume

I also assume that P-51D markings were done like that because that's how all the allied planes at the time were marked

But with the advent of P-51B/C models, we have correct ETO codes for those planes- with inconsistent markings (for the theatre) for P-51Ds in units that served in ETO

Chuck_Older
12-21-2005, 04:55 PM
I haven't let it die

jeroen_R90S
12-24-2005, 05:16 AM
Mo-Zus? You there? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif