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Ubi-Banshee
07-21-2016, 09:23 PM
Hello Assassins!

I'm back and looking for more of your feedback for our development team. They loved all your ideas about the UI that we've got more teams who are eager for your direct input (woo hoo!!) :o

This time we're looking at the in-game economies of the following games: Black Flag, Rogue, Unity, and Syndicate.

If you have a moment and would like to share your thoughts on the balance in-game economies and how that relates to gameplay, it would be very helpful!

We know that the economy is really important part of the gameplay experience, and having a satisfying economy makes doing missions, resource grinds, rewards, upgrades, etc. all the more exciting when done in a balanced way.

Please let us know what you liked, didn't like, and any features you'd like to see in the future. Also, if you have any examples (from AC or other games) that you think did this well, that's great too!

Thanks for all your help, you guys are amazing :cool:

Tossage
07-27-2016, 02:57 PM
why would anyone want to grind for gear anyway? you already get tons of stuff to get along just by playing the story,and main attributes come from experience points.
so there really is no rewards for crafting and looting.

Ureh
07-27-2016, 07:01 PM
why would anyone want to grind for gear anyway? you already get tons of stuff to get along just by playing the story,and main attributes come from experience points.
so there really is no rewards for crafting and looting.

I agree that nearly every AC game can be completed with only what the game gives to you - no need to go out of our way to find more stuff - even more so if a player is very patient and stealths through every mission. But it all comes down to playstyle and aesthetics (Assassin-Fashion, try saying it out loud. Sounds awesome!). They want to provide these options to any players that might be interested in them.

Just as a quick example:
In AC2, you can upgrade Ezio's Throwing Knives capacity by advancing through the story, then walking up to a Tailor shop. After that it's as simple as spending a little bit of gold and pressing the Buy button. Other things like the poison, hidden gun, climb leap, etc are unlocked in the story. That's it! There's nothing wrong with this, I like it.

In ACS, they're trying to "expand" on that idea of upgrading your character, give it even more of an RPG feel. Instead of just spending money that the game freely gives to you. Now they're adding various ways to earn money and resources to craft certain upgrades. For me, I actually felt like I was earning money in a fairly quick and entertaining manner as I work towards the next gear upgrade or gang upgrade. Some upgrades and outfits even require "exotic materials" that can only be found in a specific chest Although I feel mixed about the "exotic materials" because if a player doesn't use a guide, they could potentially spend hours upon hours trying to find a Dinosaur Tooth just so that they can craft that awesome outfit, weapon/ammo upgrade, etc). Some craftables can only be obtained by completing certain side missions.

There are also "gang upgrades" that players can choose to get (which require quite a bit grinding for money if you don't want to wait for the safe in the train hideout). They don't really affect the city as much as I would've thought, but it does give something for certain players to strive for and aids in the illusion that they're building up their character and improving the city in some small way.

In my short time with the game so far, it felt like the resources (metal, leather, chemicals) started to lose significance because the game gives quite a lot once you've reached a threshold in the game. I think they did this because they didn't want to make the players grind too much.

The important thing is that all of this is optional, so it's up to the player to pursue these things. They're still in the process of finding that balance of making it fun for those who are only interested in the story, and fun for those that do enjoy deviating from the main path and finding all the crafting/looting.

Tossage
07-28-2016, 07:35 AM
But in AC2 you could upgrade all sorts shops,horse stables and even a brothel :D, not only you would get it visual improvements to the area but you would also get more items with cheaper price.
And in AC2 all the gear you buy, changes your visuals and they give better/different attributes, whereas in ACS it's a bit of a mess imo.

I haven't tried the gang upgrade thing yet, will be doing so when i need it. But it does sound good because i like to play with jacob alot.

Ureh
07-29-2016, 04:42 AM
But in AC2 you could upgrade all sorts shops,horse stables and even a brothel :D, not only you would get it visual improvements to the area but you would also get more items with cheaper price.
And in AC2 all the gear you buy, changes your visuals and they give better/different attributes, whereas in ACS it's a bit of a mess imo.

I haven't tried the gang upgrade thing yet, will be doing so when i need it. But it does sound good because i like to play with jacob alot.

1. Yeah I'm hoping they take the concept of visual improvements to the stratosphere, if they ever have plans to bring it back in future games. I thought ACB did it pretty well too because not only were some of the buildings getting repaired (noticeably the aqueducts and faction HQs) but also the NPCs and even the ambient musics received quite a few changes as well. Syndicate didn't really do it like that. There are 2-3 gang upgrades which seemed to imply that we would find more NPC interactions but I've yet to find them myself. There are two minor exceptions: in a side mission and the dlc (don't want to spoil them for you if you haven't reached them yet).

2. I think the armours/outfits in both games are ultimately cosmetic. Sure, the armours in AC2 are easier to obtain and give a lot more health and the ACS outfits add small bonuses like more damage, harder detection, but neither are truly felt. In AC2 the combat is pretty easy - a lot of players will instinctively use medicine when they take damage - so the armours' health upgrades aren't as big as we'd hope. Same goes for the ACS outfits' bonuses... the extra damage might only reduce the amount of button presses by one, the enhanced stealth might only give you an extra second before open conflict which isn't very significant because ACS stealth is already very lenient. I do agree that a good chunk of the outfits in ACS are locked behind money, resources, and/or exotic crafting materials which isn't everyone's cup of tea. Sometimes a player wants the outfit but they shouldn't have to grind for it if they don't want to. I will say that I love how the AC2 armours will degrade overtime if you don't repair them, and you can even see damage on the armour (similar to the wear and tear on Batman's cape in Arkham games).

3. I think the gang upgrades are similar in function to some of the features in the past games. Some gang upgrades will lower shop prices significantly (a little bit like the reduces prices you get for investing in the shops in Ezio's games), some will increase income (again meant to be the all-in-one variant of the numerous shops we had to renovate in Ezio's games), and some will improve Rooks by a great margin (I thought these upgrades were much more tangible and unique than the ones in the Ezio games but some players might not appreciate that the Rooks are not assassins or how overpowered they are after the gang upgrades).

Hope you enjoy the rest of the game.

Razrback16
08-17-2016, 05:36 PM
Ok, with regard to economy and earning money - I really haven't had a complaint with any of the games so far. The upgrade system as far as "gear" is where some games I've liked more than others.

AC2 / ACB had a very good "gear" system. The shops offered different armor, weapons, etc. and you bought what you wanted. I liked that. You also would upgrade your specialty gear (double hidden blades, poison blade, etc.) as the game progressed which I also like. I like when all of that stuff is thoroughly explained and given backstory. It adds an immersion factor that allows you to get more attached to the character you are playing as.

In AC4 I liked that there were a number of different outfits made available for Edward. Same in Rogue for Shay. While I thought some of them looked awful, others looked good and I bought and used them. I do think those games felt like they were missing a little something since you couldn't really upgrade armor / gear that really changed your appearance much beyond Edward's pistols. You just
"crafted" upgrades that really visually didn't do much and I like seeing my character progress and get a better appearance as he goes along upgrading his stuff.

Unity I did like the gear system in that I liked how you had many options. I hated that some of the items were locked and required you to play those Co-Op Missions (those were terrible, IMO), sometimes up to 3 separate times to unlock what you wanted. Very frustrating. While I couldn't stand Arno's character build (hated the way he walked and moved - looked like a robot), the gear system in Unity was good minus so many items being locked.

Syndicate - similar to Unity. Many options which are good, but some items still locked that you had to craft (this is not as bad as Unity since yo just had to gather materials). The thing I didn't like in Syndicate is how you had to be a certain level in order to buy specific gear items. IMO it would be better if it was simply monetary based. There shouldn't be shackles on the equipment preventing you from buying it if you have enough money.

I am a big fan of story progression upgrades though. I like when you hit certain points in the story and a side character helps you by giving you upgrades weapons, or armor, specialty gear for infiltration, etc. That is always very cool and makes it unique.

Hope this feedback is helpful -

@ Ubi-Banshee - as an aside, I really don't hit the messageboards that often, but I love the AC series - anytime you need feedback for the AC series, I would be happy to give you guys detailed feedback on any subject of the AC games. I've played these games like 10 billion times and would be happy to help out. Please feel free to add my registered e-mail address to any e-mail blasts you send out when you need feedback for this series. I'd really like to see it take off again, so anything I can do to help out with regard to feedback, beta testing, etc. just let me know.

legendvinu
08-19-2016, 09:28 AM
Hello Assassins!

I'm back and looking for more of your feedback for our development team. They loved all your ideas about the UI that we've got more teams who are eager for your direct input (woo hoo!!) :o

This time we're looking at the in-game economies of the following games: Black Flag, Rogue, Unity, and Syndicate.

If you have a moment and would like to share your thoughts on the balance in-game economies and how that relates to gameplay, it would be very helpful!

We know that the economy is really important part of the gameplay experience, and having a satisfying economy makes doing missions, resource grinds, rewards, upgrades, etc. all the more exciting when done in a balanced way.

Please let us know what you liked, didn't like, and any features you'd like to see in the future. Also, if you have any examples (from AC or other games) that you think did this well, that's great too!

Thanks for all your help, you guys are amazing :cool:

Really like the Assassin's creed Series I have played all the series and also the side mission here are my ideas and my views for the Future games and for empire. My Feedback is please avoid stock or lure missions mainly. Here are some of my ideas, and of course Thanks for awesome games. liked carriage drive and stealth mechanics and Eviee was in stealth expert but if stealth then why chameleon power as stealth itself is like chameleon. I think there should be more brutal in kills style.

1 ) There should not be lure missions.

2 ) The game has unique game mechanics I think it should not be change if it is changes then( witcher feel) I know some elements will be missing like leap of faith and special kills and stuffs.
3 ) There should be a return of Tomb like missions like in Assassin's creed 2 and brotherhood.
4 ) There should be different types of Weapons and some Unique kills particular to that weapon.
5 ) There should be Boss kills.
6 ) There should 3rd person gameplay in present day story line (Assassin's are dying for that)
7 ) There should be like fatality for every person.
8 ) There should be Bombs again like in Revelations.
9 ) I think Juno gameplay should come by (a TEMPLAR) gameplay helping Juno to revive her.(Rouge Guy in present day)
10 )There should be change in Eagle vision(revelations).
11 ) There should be a trap method to kill Templar
12 ) Desmond son should avenge his father's death
13) There should be puzzle to solve.
14 ) No side games like in 3, black flag.
15 ) There should be Assassin's helping like in the brotherhood. Even though Rooks was there in Syndicate I din't feel that much connected like in brotherhood
16 ) There should be particular armour for this game.
17 ) There should be brutal kills.
18 ) There should be assassin's group.
19 ) There should be double Assasin's blade
20 ) The dart should have a comeback.
21 ) There should be about 25 to 30 Sequence and each one should at-least have 5 memory each.
22 ) Assassin's hideout should be like the gameplay in Monteriggioni set of weapons and stuff like show case.
23 ) There should be hidden treasures.

Thank You all for reading this and please kindly Type your opinions too

@Ubi-Banshee Thanks for giving Assassin's an opportunity for giving us our valuable feed backs To UBI ASSASSIN'S Team.
Thank You

CrisJohns_
08-26-2016, 07:46 PM
I love Assassins

Anykeyer
08-26-2016, 10:45 PM
The best economy system by far was in AC2, because it was simple.
The worst is in Black Flag. It had no time-based income, you had to grind for money. And on top of this it had multiple resources you couldnt even buy, only steal from somewhere.



This time we're looking at the in-game economies of the following games: Black Flag, Rogue, Unity, and Syndicate.

Black flag - 3/10 for reasons above
Rogue - 4/10. Way too many renovations (let us focus on our own place like in AC2), but at least there is a time-based constant income (somewhat useless bc it also has resources like BF).
Unity - 7/10.
Syndicate - 4/10. What economy? Season pass gives you level 7 items with level 10 (highest possible) stats. You dont need money in this game.

victorbones
08-31-2016, 04:06 PM
Hello there. I never played the game, which one you guys recommend?

SleeperSx2
09-04-2016, 05:19 PM
The best economy system by far was in AC2, because it was simple.
The worst is in Black Flag. It had no time-based income, you had to grind for money. And on top of this it had multiple resources you couldnt even buy, only steal from somewhere.


Black flag - 3/10 for reasons above
Rogue - 4/10. Way too many renovations (let us focus on our own place like in AC2), but at least there is a time-based constant income (somewhat useless bc it also has resources like BF).
Unity - 7/10.
Syndicate - 4/10. What economy? Season pass gives you level 7 items with level 10 (highest possible) stats. You dont need money in this game.

5. All games need deeper story missions, side quests so many ! Games can no longer be repetitive and see everything in 3-hours and after that we have only repeated all.
We've had enough of that. You have the potential to make it big and do it !

Ureh
09-06-2016, 05:25 AM
The best economy system by far was in AC2, because it was simple.
The worst is in Black Flag. It had no time-based income, you had to grind for money. And on top of this it had multiple resources you couldnt even buy, only steal from somewhere.




Black flag - 3/10 for reasons above
Rogue - 4/10. Way too many renovations (let us focus on our own place like in AC2), but at least there is a time-based constant income (somewhat useless bc it also has resources like BF).
Unity - 7/10.
Syndicate - 4/10. What economy? Season pass gives you level 7 items with level 10 (highest possible) stats. You dont need money in this game.
Hey Anykeyer,
Thank you for sharing your feedback. I understand that it is your personal opinion, but part of your perspective piqued my interest. I hope it's okay to reply to your feedback.


From what I remember about ACU's economy, it also revolved around quite a bit of grinding. All of the legendary gear costs over a 100k livres, I think some were around 200k? A complete set-up will usually range from 600k to 1m livres. Experienced players might be able to obtain all of that money very efficiently via the heist(s) with the biggest payout - around 50k-70k livres per mission. Just a loose estimation, but I think that's at least 10 playthroughs to complete one gear set, estimated time to complete each heists vary for each player, and there's only 2 heist missions that offer that kind of payout. As far as I could tell the item upgrades don't grant significant bonuses when compared to low level gear. Ex: Legendary medieval gear only allows a player to take 1-2 extra hits (depending on the archetype) versus a low level armor such as the original or tailored robes - both of which are free. The Legendary Sans-Culottes armor increases the restricted area timer to 3.2 seconds, whereas Tailored robes timer is at 2.3 seconds.


Heists have great gameplay but it can get repetitive. Also from what I understand, the context of the heist is that Bishop created/altered them to serve as training grounds for the Initiate. I thought the context of the income activities in ACS were a bit more relevant to the ancestors and also more varied: such as fight clubs, racing, hijacks, trains/boats, etc.
My memory is a bit fuzzy when it comes to ACU's dlc but I seem to remember them offering Arno's Family Sword and Arno's Pistol (the cool one with a black tint and eagle motif) for free. In-game you can buy both for just a few thousand livres and the play can equip level 4 weapons and pistols pretty early on in the game. We can also instantly kill any level guard with a lvl 1 weapon/firearm as long as we have ground execution or use a pistol finisher when they're grounded. As far as I can remember, any level pistol can instantly kill any guard if you make a headshot. Compare this to ACS, where headshots are no longer guaranteed kills if we don't continue to upgrade. I haven't personally tried this yet but I've read that it's entirely possible to complete both games without buying armor/weapon upgrades, especially if played stealthly, this could be interpreted by some as both games' economies being redundant.


You also said that the three weapons offered in ACS' dlc packs - vorpal blade, dracula's sword, and steampunk knuckles - undermine the economy of the entire game. I think this varies based on playstyle (a stealthy player would never have any use for weapon/combat stats and skills) and what aesthetics the player prefers. 1) We've no idea how many people own the dlc, and out of those people how many will actually use or continue to use the dlc gear (ie some players might find the dlc weapons or outfit unappealing and opt for vanilla gear). 2) those DLC weapons you refered to can only be used at lvl 7, so they don't discount the grinding and leveling process from lvl 1-6, then 8-10. If and only if a player decides that those DLC weapons will be their end-game gear will any lvl 8-10 items become redundant.


I think the economy of AC games are centered more around cosmetics/aesthetics. We're basically farming/grinding for money to buy our favorite outfit and weapon, so we can make our character look cool. I think both games did some things right/better and some stuff need to be improved.


Sorry about my disorderly post, kinda typed it in a hurry. If you've reached this far, thank you for reading. I'm interested in reading a more detail explanation of your feedback, hopefully to help me understand the economies better. I remember seeing you posting on here since the AC2 days and never got a chance to really speak with you, so in part this was also an opportunity for me.

Tossage
09-24-2016, 09:18 PM
The best economy system by far was in AC2, because it was simple.
The worst is in Black Flag. It had no time-based income, you had to grind for money. And on top of this it had multiple resources you couldnt even buy, only steal from somewhere.


Black flag - 3/10 for reasons above
Rogue - 4/10. Way too many renovations (let us focus on our own place like in AC2), but at least there is a time-based constant income (somewhat useless bc it also has resources like BF).
Unity - 7/10.
Syndicate - 4/10. What economy? Season pass gives you level 7 items with level 10 (highest possible) stats. You dont need money in this game.

big +1