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Rifkin76
07-12-2016, 09:40 PM
Hi guys
I got syndicate a few dags ago and cant seem to enjoy it that much...it looks great and all that but it feels like it lost its touch a bit
I dont feel like an assassin in this game
I feel like a redneck and a welldressed lady run around London and making a lot of fuss
Also i dont really enjoy the more modern era when it comes to AC ...i like middleages better like the old games it suits the hole idea better

So...
Where are the assassin outfits and whats upp With the hood?
The weapons are boring and way to many guns ..
And the fighting is kind of Boring a bit to much acually
Creating att gang wtf? Isnt the hole idea to be sneaky and hidden...
Play With 2 characters ...no thx ..let me choose 1
Hideout on a train...Come on guys

Well anyways ..this is my opinion of it so far

Fatal-Feit
07-13-2016, 12:00 AM
Hi guys

Welcome to the forum, homie.


I got syndicate a few dags ago and cant seem to enjoy it that much...it looks great and all that but it feels like it lost its touch a bit
I dont feel like an assassin in this game
I feel like a redneck and a welldressed lady run around London and making a lot of fuss

The point of the characters are to show two sides of the Brotherhood; the reckless Assassin who disregards the Brotherhood and the Creed and the strict Assassin who does everything by the book. It's an interesting premise and the dynamics between the two characters are... great, but the game never delves deeply into anything. It could have not been a story about Assassins with how insignificant the Brotherhood and the Creed really are in the story.


Also i dont really enjoy the more modern era when it comes to AC ...i like middleages better like the old games it suits the hole idea better

Victorian London is the perfect setting for AC. It was the time of progress, of technology. The atmosphere, the gameplay innovations, the story potential. I feel like Syndicate went a completely different direction from what I envisioned, which was something dark, mysterious, and philosophical, but most people seem to be satisfied with what they've done while others say they've completely wasted it.


Where are the assassin outfits and whats upp With the hood?

They don't wear white anymore and the outfits, for the most part, looks inconspicuous for the setting. They put their hood up when they go into stealth mode (crouching). Believe me, everyone else hates it.


The weapons are boring and way to many guns ..

I thought the idea of concealed, inconspicuous weapons was great. The execution, not so much. The combat animations are flashy, but the animations themselves are ugly and lack frames. Multi-kill animations are terrible, as the enemies just stand around drunk while you beat them. I wish they were more like AC3's multi-kill animations when the enemies are trying to hit you while struggling to fight back.

The Cane Sword was one of the most interesting weapon the series have had, but I felt it was wasted potential. You couldn't walk around with it or at least unsheathe it for style unless you're in combat and it lost all of its appeal to me the moment I noticed there are enemy archetypes that uses the them too. I was hoping it was the Assassin's special weapon with some history. Same with the Rope Launcher.


And the fighting is kind of Boring a bit to much acually

I like the combat for what it is, but I don't think it fits AC.


Creating att gang wtf? Isnt the hole idea to be sneaky and hidden...

Well, gangs are suppose to be like the factions in AC2-R. You can use them to distracts enemies and so on... I think. At least 200 hours invested in the game and I never actually used them for more than resource management. lol


Play With 2 characters ...no thx ..let me choose 1

You can for 95% of the game. The concept of dual protagonists is interesting, but there was almost no point in Syndicate. Both Jacob and Evie are masters of stealth and combat.


Hideout on a train...Come on guys


I thought it was a cool idea. Getting around in it is a lot more clunky than it should be, but I like how it's portable.

I personally like the story of Syndicate, but I hate how rhetorical the Creed is used. You can mention the Creed all you want, but it doesn't mean anything unless you give it some actual context.

Sesheenku
07-13-2016, 08:56 AM
You have superior taste OP. Just drop that thing, it doesn't get better.

Combat stays simple and without variety, the twins keep being more simplistic in their interactions than a kids cartoon and the ending is downright insulting to everyone's intelligence.

Rifkin76
07-13-2016, 10:20 AM
Welcome to the forum, homie.



The point of the characters are to show two sides of the Brotherhood; the reckless Assassin who disregards the Brotherhood and the Creed and the strict Assassin who does everything by the book. It's an interesting premise and the dynamics between the two characters are... great, but the game never delves deeply into anything. It could have not been a story about Assassins with how insignificant the Brotherhood and the Creed really are in the story.



Victorian London is the perfect setting for AC. It was the time of progress, of technology. The atmosphere, the gameplay innovations, the story potential. I feel like Syndicate went a completely different direction from what I envisioned, which was something dark, mysterious, and philosophical, but most people seem to be satisfied with what they've done while others say they've completely wasted it.



They don't wear white anymore and the outfits, for the most part, looks inconspicuous for the setting. They put their hood up when they go into stealth mode (crouching). Believe me, everyone else hates it.



I thought the idea of concealed, inconspicuous weapons was great. The execution, not so much. The combat animations are flashy, but the animations themselves are ugly and lack frames. Multi-kill animations are terrible, as the enemies just stand around drunk while you beat them. I wish they were more like AC3's multi-kill animations when the enemies are trying to hit you while struggling to fight back.

The Cane Sword was one of the most interesting weapon the series have had, but I felt it was wasted potential. You couldn't walk around with it or at least unsheathe it for style unless you're in combat and it lost all of its appeal to me the moment I noticed there are enemy archetypes that uses the them too. I was hoping it was the Assassin's special weapon with some history. Same with the Rope Launcher.



I like the combat for what it is, but I don't think it fits AC.



Well, gangs are suppose to be like the factions in AC2-R. You can use them to distracts enemies and so on... I think. At least 200 hours invested in the game and I never actually used them for more than resource management. lol


You can for 95% of the game. The concept of dual protagonists is interesting, but there was almost no point in Syndicate. Both Jacob and Evie are masters of stealth and combat.



I thought it was a cool idea. Getting around in it is a lot more clunky than it should be, but I like how it's portable.

I personally like the story of Syndicate, but I hate how rhetorical the Creed is used. You can mention the Creed all you want, but it doesn't mean anything unless you give it some actual context.

nice input thx

i havent got that far in to the game yet to understand all aspect of it

last night i noticed that the 2 things that bugs me the most is the lack of assassin feeling and changing of characters
i dont get in to the character this way really
i like Evie best tho ..

cawatrooper9
07-13-2016, 02:44 PM
nice input thx

i havent got that far in to the game yet to understand all aspect of it

last night i noticed that the 2 things that bugs me the most is the lack of assassin feeling and changing of characters
i dont get in to the character this way really
i like Evie best tho ..

Yeah, it's a... different Assassin game, to be sure.

There's a lot to like about it, though. You sound rather like a purist of the series, and while Syndicate goes against the grain in many aspects, I think there are some things you'll appreciate. One that comes to mind is a mission about halfway through the game where Evie does some exploring and hunting clues across London landmarks. It feels a lot like the Ezio era, mixed with National Treasure- maybe that's not the best analogy, but it's actually pretty cool.

Also, the city is pretty neat. It isn't the Middle Ages, to be sure, but the beauty of the series is that it can take place in any time period. Check out the Thames if you haven't yet- as one recent poster pointed out, it's so impressive to see how we've gone to Altair being unable to swim in the small canal in Damas to the bustling waterfront of the Thames.

Rifkin76
07-13-2016, 08:25 PM
Yeah, it's a... different Assassin game, to be sure.

There's a lot to like about it, though. You sound rather like a purist of the series, and while Syndicate goes against the grain in many aspects, I think there are some things you'll appreciate. One that comes to mind is a mission about halfway through the game where Evie does some exploring and hunting clues across London landmarks. It feels a lot like the Ezio era, mixed with National Treasure- maybe that's not the best analogy, but it's actually pretty cool.

Also, the city is pretty neat. It isn't the Middle Ages, to be sure, but the beauty of the series is that it can take place in any time period. Check out the Thames if you haven't yet- as one recent poster pointed out, it's so impressive to see how we've gone to Altair being unable to swim in the small canal in Damas to the bustling waterfront of the Thames.

i guess i am a purist of the game :)
its a beutiful game and feels smoth and there are things in the game i like of course or i wouldnt still play it.. it wasnt what i expected thats all...well see im just at sequence 4-5 and only done some side missions

Fatal said something about ACIII fighting was cool so i watched some videos on Youtube it looks nice
havent played ACIII yet..i skipped that for some reason i cant remember so i think i gonna download that to the pc and unity i got a few weeks ago and still going
so you see theres a lot of assassination going on in this house at the moment :)

pacmanate
07-14-2016, 12:54 PM
Well the ending was horrible.
Boss fight came out of nowhere
Boss fight was horrible being kicked back every 3 seconds
Combat didn't look fluid and was too snappy
The level system of guards is just dumb, if I stab someone 20 times with a Kukri they should be dead
The skills make you over powered
Combat is too easy, you only need 2 buttons in reality
Framerate is not smooth
Carriages, something they boasted about, can bring the game to a solid 0FPS for a few seconds if you go fast
The PoE in this game was handled poorly
The Modern Day was more cutscenes, yay...
The AI is still dumb as hell and will forget a murder after about 5 seconds, just like it did in 2007... great progress
The side missions not having cutscenes is just laziness
Too many collectibles for the sake of bloating the game

I could go on but I can't be bothered.

This is coming from an AC fan thats played every main title since 2007 and has been on here as a regular for 5 years.

I'm appauled at the state of AC just because Ubisoft wants money. Watch_Dogs 2 has better looking parkour than AC now and Navigation is a core pillar of the AC Brand. I'm really hoping the game next year makes up for the past 3 years worth of games.

Fatal-Feit
07-14-2016, 03:55 PM
Boss fight came out of nowhere
Boss fight was horrible being kicked back every 3 seconds

The only thing I liked about it was the music, which was great and fit the moment perfectly. My biggest issue with the battle was having to repeat the same thing literally more than 6 times in counting. Get knocked back, avoid PoE magic, and have a QTE punching match 12X. Boss battles with PoE have never been THAT repetitive.


Combat didn't look fluid and was too snappy

Fluidity and responsiveness was spot-on, in my opinion. I just felt the mechanics themselves were flawed and the animations sucked.


The level system of guards is just dumb, if I stab someone 20 times with a Kukri they should be dead

The level scaling is pretty lazy, but I don't think they expect you to fight level 8-10 guards at level 3-4. :p I miss how in AC1, the stronger enemies are given more and more abilities to counter/attack you and they also become more aggressive. 2-R handled its difficulty through making you adapt to fighting various new archetypes with their own strength and weaknesses. I'd like to see the next AC try to combine them both with the leveling system.


The skills make you over powered

Waaaay too overpowered. Barring Unity, the series have always offered upgrades that just ruins the balance of the game and it never lets you remove them.

AC1 has a perfectly good combat system, but the large health bar made it easy.

AC2 gave you too much upgrades and supplies.

ACB is AC2 dialed up to 11. Same with ACR.

AC3... Honestly, this game is just broken from the start. Same with Liberation.

ACIV, like the Ezio Trilogy, offers too much upgrades and supplies. Same with Rogue.

The only thing I can think of for Unity are the health bar upgrades, but they don't stop you from dying since equipment can be detached.


Combat is too easy, you only need 2 buttons in reality

Well, even AC1's combat can be summed up as needing only 2 buttons (the hidden blade), but I know what you mean. There's no middle ground with ACS's combat. The enemies and archetypes are all the same, no matter the level. Enemies are just either too hard or too easy due to the only differences being stats.


The Modern Day was more cutscenes, yay...

I don't mind cutscenes (kind of prefer them), but I'd rather have nothing at all than more cringey and cartoony dialog, character animations, and plot points. ''It's people like you that give historians a bad name!'' lol The whole alien creation thing just reminds me of why I think the MD story have become silly. Maybe it's just the presentation.


The AI is still dumb as hell and will forget a murder after about 5 seconds, just like it did in 2007... great progress

What do you think the AI should do after they find a dead body instead of just glancing around for 5 seconds and going back to repeating their pattern? Besides bringing back inspecting hiding spots like haystacks, of course.

At the very least, I'd like to see the AI dispose of the body instead of just leaving it there. lol


The side missions not having cutscenes is just laziness

I disagree with this. Effort shouldn't be judged solely on presentation, especially for the genre. Honestly, this is a big subject that I've wanted to discuss with someone for a long time, but it would derail this thread immensely so back to the point... Gameplay--such as level design, exploration, pacing, balancing, etc--is far more important, and with AC being an open world game, the developers should be gratified for embracing its routes once again. One of the best aspects of London--and the past few AC games in general--are how open and seamless they are. The core gameplay have been oversimplified and needs refinement, but the open worlds have been fully systemic with a lot of features and mechanics, allowing players to truly tackle each mission at their own pace while being able to experiment and craft their own story; we can explore and indulge ourselves in side activities for hours on end without much interruption. Too much cutscenes would honestly be a disservice and I think Syndicate had an appropriate amount of it given at a good time, such as the beginning and end of most quest-lines for allies and similarly for Lydia's mini-story. It's not an easy thing to balance, honestly.

MikeFNY
07-14-2016, 04:15 PM
What do you think the AI should do after they find a dead body instead of just glancing around for 5 seconds and going back to repeating their pattern?
Uncharted 4 has your answer.

Fatal-Feit
07-14-2016, 04:47 PM
Uncharted 4 has your answer.

So put everyone in the location in aggro mode w/o needing to ring the bell? Idk, Uncharted 4's AI aren't much better.

MikeFNY
07-14-2016, 04:54 PM
So put everyone in the location in aggro mode w/o needing to ring the bell? Idk, Uncharted 4's AI aren't much better.

Help me understand :)

A guard sees a dead body, he shrugs his shoulders and goes back to whatever he was doing as if nothing happened ....

... is better than a guard who sees a dead body, enters "panic mode", raises the alarm with all his colleagues and then changes his movements?

Fatal-Feit
07-14-2016, 05:34 PM
Help me understand :)

A guard sees a dead body, he shrugs his shoulders and goes back to whatever he was doing as if nothing happened ....

... is better than a guard who sees a dead body, enters "panic mode", raises the alarm with all his colleagues and then changes his movements?

It's really not much better. AC already has similar features, with guards ringing a bell to alert everyone if they spot a dead ally. UC4's version is more organic and realistic, especially since they don't go back into their old pattern, but it's not a gameplay changer and I wouldn't be surprise if it was conscious decision to use bells instead either since it's more friendly towards the detection system.

cawatrooper9
07-14-2016, 06:58 PM
AI in stealth games is tough to nail. On the one hand, you could have overly alert AI (like the Unity snipers) that make stealth almost impossible. On the other side, you have the neanderthals that guard London. You'd think a happy medium would be preferable, and I'm sure it would, but given this dichotomy I'd personally rather have fun sneaking around fools than constantly getting frustrated and cheated by over-alert troops.

SixKeys
07-15-2016, 02:41 AM
What do you think the AI should do after they find a dead body instead of just glancing around for 5 seconds and going back to repeating their pattern? Besides bringing back inspecting hiding spots like haystacks, of course.

At the very least, I'd like to see the AI dispose of the body instead of just leaving it there. lol

I like the idea of guards dragging the body away. In the old games it probably would have been too much effort to program, but judging by how many different, detailed animations they have for random citizens interacting with each other or inanimate objects, I'm sure it could be done now.

Another alternative would be for the guards to surround the crime scene in a circle-like fashion and yell at crowds to "move on, nothing to see here!". I just want more of a sense that NPCs care about a dead body. Ever since AC2 they've been prone to just shrugging their shoulders and stepping over the body. That's not a realistic reaction, especially if it's a guard or a high-ranking citizen instead of some poor beggar. A dead body should be a way to create a proper distraction in a certain area. Like if you want to sneak on board a well-guarded ship, just kill a guard somewhere across the street, which would cause such a commotion that the guards will be forced to abandon their post. These commmotions should last longer than they currently do, so that returning to the crime scene 1 minute later is not noticeably safer. When we kill, we should think carefully whether it's worth the fuss it will inevitably create, to the extent that lingering in the area should not be safe until the next daybreak.

MikeFNY
07-15-2016, 07:30 AM
Although to be honest, why should other guards care when a guard is killed?

Not even the game cares, if you turn your back and then go back to where the dead body was, 9 times out of 10 he's gone :)

pacmanate
07-15-2016, 01:54 PM
Fluidity and responsiveness was spot-on, in my opinion. I just felt the mechanics themselves were flawed and the animations sucked.
Thats why I said "didn't look fluid"



The level scaling is pretty lazy, but I don't think they expect you to fight level 8-10 guards at level 3-4.
I don't expect to be able to fight 8 people anyway, that should always be a parkour your way out of there situation.




I don't mind cutscenes (kind of prefer them), but I'd rather have nothing at all than more cringey and cartoony dialog, character animations, and plot points. ''It's people like you that give historians a bad name!'' lol The whole alien creation thing just reminds me of why I think the MD story have become silly. Maybe it's just the presentation.

I guess this is subjective. My PoV is they made Desmond a hinderence in AC1. So what do they do? Instead of making him interesting they give him less and less screen time to make him more of an annoyance pulling you out of the Animus. Then they make you a floating tablet. THEN they make you watch cutscenes. In my opinion the answer is an interesting MD protagonist that you WANT to play with.



What do you think the AI should do after they find a dead body instead of just glancing around for 5 seconds and going back to repeating their pattern? Besides bringing back inspecting hiding spots like haystacks, of course.

They should have alert stages mean something like in AC1. Most guards dont even have a pattern, they just stand still somewhere. If a dead body is found a new alert pattern should form. There should be 3 stages. Neutral, Searching, Alert. After a dead body is found the search status should always be on. It makes no sense for them to stop giving a crap that someones been murdered just cause 30 seconds have past



I disagree with this. Effort shouldn't be judged solely on presentation, especially for the genre. Honestly, this is a big subject that I've wanted to discuss with someone for a long time, but it would derail this thread immensely so back to the point... Gameplay--such as level design, exploration, pacing, balancing, etc--is far more important, and with AC being an open world game, the developers should be gratified for embracing its routes once again. One of the best aspects of London--and the past few AC games in general--are how open and seamless they are. The core gameplay have been oversimplified and needs refinement, but the open worlds have been fully systemic with a lot of features and mechanics, allowing players to truly tackle each mission at their own pace while being able to experiment and craft their own story; we can explore and indulge ourselves in side activities for hours on end without much interruption. Too much cutscenes would honestly be a disservice and I think Syndicate had an appropriate amount of it given at a good time, such as the beginning and end of most quest-lines for allies and similarly for Lydia's mini-story. It's not an easy thing to balance, honestly.

I disagree with your disagree. Witcher 3 had many more sidequests that AC Syndicate yet every single one was animated. Every single one lasted longer in game time too.

Fatal-Feit
07-15-2016, 03:17 PM
Thats why I said "didn't look fluid"

I think we have different definition of fluid. lol


I don't expect to be able to fight 8 people anyway, that should always be a parkour your way out of there situation.

Plus 1 for the Rope Launcher then?


I guess this is subjective. My PoV is they made Desmond a hinderence in AC1. So what do they do? Instead of making him interesting they give him less and less screen time to make him more of an annoyance pulling you out of the Animus. Then they make you a floating tablet. THEN they make you watch cutscenes. In my opinion the answer is an interesting MD protagonist that you WANT to play with.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree here. MD to me isn't my involvement at a playable level, but the exposition I get from it. The story, the philosophy that separates the Animus experience from today's world, is what interested me about it and AC1 completely nailed it, IMO.


They should have alert stages mean something like in AC1. Most guards dont even have a pattern, they just stand still somewhere. If a dead body is found a new alert pattern should form. There should be 3 stages. Neutral, Searching, Alert. After a dead body is found the search status should always be on. It makes no sense for them to stop giving a crap that someones been murdered just cause 30 seconds have past

One of the issues with designing the AI for AC is how detection works. It's based off of the players' aggression (high-profile, social stealth, etc), distance, and location (restricted area, etc). One of the major complains regarding stealth in AC is how they're unable to perfect its ''alert'' status, as it tends to be the culprit for a lot of detection. I don't have a lot of time to talk about it, but in summary, some of the problems have been:

- Alert status keeps players from blending or using hide spots, which occasionally puts them in a corner or detected.

- Alert status are too quick/instant, barely giving players a moment to hide/blend.

- Alert status causes guards to have too much awareness, causing some stealth actions to get you detected.

That's the reason why they program guards to repeat their old patterns or make them blind/deaf.


I disagree with your disagree. Witcher 3 had many more sidequests that AC Syndicate yet every single one was animated. Every single one lasted longer in game time too.

You're comparing different style of games. Opposites, honestly. The Witcher 3 is an RPG where dialog and other role-playing aspects are important to its genre. Gameplay is built around its story. You do things when the game allows you to. One of the fans complaints are actually how hunting, for example, isn't systemic and are too glued to a narrative. And any old Witcher fan (like myself) would argue that TW2's more linear format was far better for the series, despite TW3's critical acclaims, as it offered a MUCH better narrative flow and gameplay pacing. TW3 doesn't even refer to itself as a sandbox experience unlike AC. Comparatively, AC's story is built around its gameplay. SixKeys mentioned something earlier that reminded me of AC1. In AC1, you got your contract, you go to the location, and you see guards blocking your path. One of the best way of getting around was climbing a building and tossing an archer off to distract them, Similarly, in ACS, you have a contract and a location, and one of my favorite optional objective was killing him by ramming him with a carriage, to which I did. These examples are all systemic and seamlessly integrated into their
open world.

cawatrooper9
07-15-2016, 08:44 PM
I think we'll have to agree to disagree here. MD to me isn't my involvement at a playable level, but the exposition I get from it. The story, the philosophy that separates the Animus experience from today's world, is what interested me about it and AC1 completely nailed it, IMO.


That's actually a pretty solid point. The MD sections of AC1 probably feature some of the deepest contributions to the story and lore that we've seen in the series- I'd say even more so than ACIII. However, gameplay-wise, it might as well have been one long movie.

Fatal-Feit
07-16-2016, 01:45 AM
That's actually a pretty solid point. The MD sections of AC1 probably feature some of the deepest contributions to the story and lore that we've seen in the series- I'd say even more so than ACIII. However, gameplay-wise, it might as well have been one long movie.

Yeah, I agree that AC1 did lack some interesting gameplay, but playing as another MD Assassin, training and/or going out to kill MD Templars, shouldn't be the route to go. It requires too much for too little; especially with reused animations and limited level designs due to mimicking the Ancestor's gameplay. There has to be a complete distinction from each other, and not just through appearance. Having replayed AC1 recently, I was surprised by some of the MD features that I've forgotten, like snooping around to listen to conversations, reading Abstergo's emails, etc. If we were to have another MD protagonist, I want the MD to feel like that, like a completely different experience from the past. Altair's story was intriguing because it felt otherworldly. In his time, he was raised to murder for his cause. He was doing things that an average Joe today like Desmond would never think of. And similarly with ACIV's MD.

If we were to have another MD protagonist with gameplay, I think it should carry some ideas from AC1 and ACIV. Instead of copying what's happening in the Animus, we should do things like hacking (perhaps bring back glyphs for this), gathering information, and if thankfully we got a non-silent character, he/she would reflect a personality more akin to people today. Someone who we can relate to and connect with their frustration again. Story should also reflect that as well, as I've spoke about earlier, by showing the contrast in our philosophies and actions. Instead of killing a high value target, we do things to frame them or make them lose their money and power. Or have something like a Brotherhood mini-game where we provide Intel and send them on missions to kill and/or gather more. I also think we should keep the first person view, as it gives a much more realistic view of MD and sets a clearer distinction from the Animus experience.

SixKeys
07-16-2016, 02:29 AM
One of the issues with designing the AI for AC is how detection works. It's based off of the players' aggression (high-profile, social stealth, etc), distance, and location (restricted area, etc). One of the major complains regarding stealth in AC is how they're unable to perfect its ''alert'' status, as it tends to be the culprit for a lot of detection. I don't have a lot of time to talk about it, but in summary, some of the problems have been:

- Alert status keeps players from blending or using hide spots, which occasionally puts them in a corner or detected.

- Alert status are too quick/instant, barely giving players a moment to hide/blend.

- Alert status causes guards to have too much awareness, causing some stealth actions to get you detected.

That's the reason why they program guards to repeat their old patterns or make them blind/deaf.

AC3 had a pretty balanced detection system otherwise, had they not made the guards psychic and had they better explained some aspects of the AI that felt totally unfair. Someone (Farlander, maybe?) did extensive testing with the stealth mechanics in AC3 and only through his testing was it revealed that the reason guards will always turn around even if you stealth kill someone behind them is because they've been programmed to hear the body hitting the ground. If the player had been TOLD this in a tutorial, it wouldn't have been as frustrating (although a little too unforgiving in a stealth game). It felt like the game was cheating because even though we seemingly did everything right - move slowly, approach from behind, make no sound - the AI reacted to things the player hadn't been told about.

I'm saying that AC has almost gotten the detection system right several times (AC1, AC3, Unity) but instead of tweaking the rules here and there to make them clearer, they always swing in the extreme opposite direction when people complain and make the next game mind-numbingly easy.


Similarly, in ACS, you have a contract and a location, and one of my favorite optional objective was killing him by ramming him with a carriage, to which I did. These examples are all systemic and seamlessly integrated into their open world.

Well, it would have been had the carriages not been so clunky to control. I remember literally circling in place with the carriage and repeatedly running over the guy until his health was depleted, lmao. I'm sure it was meant to feel like a "stealth" kill in the sense that the assassin made it look like a drive-by accident, but it hardly feels like an accident when the same carriage keeps ramming into you 20 times in a row. ;)

With that said, I would love to have more of these "make it look like an accident" types of opportunities. Where guards don't even get alerted if you make it look convincing. Like poisoning an old man ( la Unity) who's shown to be coughing earlier, so people assume he simply died of a heart attack.

Farlander1991
07-16-2016, 08:36 AM
Someone (Farlander, maybe?) did extensive testing with the stealth mechanics in AC3

Woodbeam did all the stealth/AI analysis for AC3 :)

Fatal-Feit
07-16-2016, 10:12 AM
I'm saying that AC has almost gotten the detection system right several times (AC1, AC3, Unity) but instead of tweaking the rules here and there to make them clearer, they always swing in the extreme opposite direction when people complain and make the next game mind-numbingly easy.

Unity's especially. Besides needing to explain the system better, there was only a handful of things that needed tweaking.

- Enemies' detection should be disabled when you're using high-profile cover kills like previously in ACIV. I still don't fully understand how this mechanic works with the detection system in Unity. Sometimes they detect me, sometimes they don't. Needs testing.

- Slow down the detection bar for snipers. I think their radius are perfect.

- Enemies on the ground should not be able to see you on a building when in alert mode. I know it's more realistic because they're more aware of their surroundings, but it kind of makes the whole point of Assassins being their best on rooftops redundant since being on ground level with the ability to use quick shots from covers is A LOT better position.

- Enemies effected by smoke/stun bombs should have their detection disabled for the duration. It's weird when they know your location if you fire a gun or accidentally bump into them while assassinating another target since they're suppose to be disoriented.

I think those are the only things that need adjusting but feel free to add.


Well, it would have been had the carriages not been so clunky to control. I remember literally circling in place with the carriage and repeatedly running over the guy until his health was depleted, lmao. I'm sure it was meant to feel like a "stealth" kill in the sense that the assassin made it look like a drive-by accident, but it hardly feels like an accident when the same carriage keeps ramming into you 20 times in a row. ;)

Rofl. Navigation is kind of weird in Syndicate. :p A little off-topic but while carriages are abysmal with M&K, tracking (this includes Tobii EyeX too) with the Rope Launcher works a trillion times better than with a controller. I think that might have to do with analog aim assist or something interfering with the tracking when you're not in aiming mode. (https://twitter.com/Neighbird_/status/660007009740308480)It's weird because these are the same people who developed the eagle ability in TToKW and that DLC didn't have the issue.

pacmanate
07-16-2016, 07:56 PM
I think we have different definition of fluid. lol
Probably, snappy animations does not equal fluid. The transition is too rushed.




Plus 1 for the Rope Launcher then?
Nope. Because I never need to run away. Thats the problem. I'm an Assassin, not a metal gear.




I think we'll have to agree to disagree here. MD to me isn't my involvement at a playable level, but the exposition I get from it. The story, the philosophy that separates the Animus experience from today's world, is what interested me about it and AC1 completely nailed it, IMO.

Well I actually like Desmond. I meant more as thats what a lot of others thought of him, a hiderance. I like exactly what you said, but it's handled poorly. Cutscenes are a cop out to what they could do. Why not let us PLAY the cutscenes? Why not make them missions?






You're comparing different style of games. Opposites, honestly. The Witcher 3 is an RPG where dialog and other role-playing aspects are important to its genre. Gameplay is built around its story. You do things when the game allows you to. One of the fans complaints are actually how hunting, for example, isn't systemic and are too glued to a narrative. And any old Witcher fan (like myself) would argue that TW2's more linear format was far better for the series, despite TW3's critical acclaims, as it offered a MUCH better narrative flow and gameplay pacing. TW3 doesn't even refer to itself as a sandbox experience unlike AC. Comparatively, AC's story is built around its gameplay. SixKeys mentioned something earlier that reminded me of AC1. In AC1, you got your contract, you go to the location, and you see guards blocking your path. One of the best way of getting around was climbing a building and tossing an archer off to distract them, Similarly, in ACS, you have a contract and a location, and one of my favorite optional objective was killing him by ramming him with a carriage, to which I did. These examples are all systemic and seamlessly integrated into their
open world.

Comparing 2 different games when it comes to quality of cutscenes doesn't matter. Genre wise they are different, but they are both AAA games and more effort is put into the Witcher 3.

It looks nicer
Runs better
Has more fleshed out side missions
Actual animated cutscenes for side missions
Deeper combat
Fight or Flight (As in youre not a One Man Army and have to think during fights)

You're saying that these can't be compared to AC because its not the same style game? When it comes to effort in a AAA game, AC lacks it. The games have been very mediocre since AC4 and the franchise has not progressed one bit in any area thats a huge leap.

Fatal-Feit
07-17-2016, 01:38 AM
Probably, snappy animations does not equal fluid. The transition is too rushed.

I know, fluidity is the flow between animations, and while Syndicate looks weird sometimes due to cut--or lack of--animation frames, the game does a phenomenal job of keeping it consistent and precise. I was in combat the other day, playing as Evie using the Kukri fighting 4 higher level Blighters surrounding me on all sides, so I was in a moment of just whirling around 360, juggling them with parries and attacks. It was all perfectly transitioned and it looked beautiful, almost like a dance.

Speaking of combat, I noticed Syndicate falls under the same issue Bloodborne has with their combat being too fast paced for consoles. The animations were designed for 60fps so some of the enemies' attack animations, such as combo attacks, don't have enough I-frames (if at all) for you to react as soon as you see it at 30fps, even without much input lag. Interestingly, there's a skill that makes counters easier to read, so I curious to know if the animations were purposely designed that way for difficulty, or this skill was implemented as a solution for the problem.



Well I actually like Desmond. I meant more as thats what a lot of others thought of him, a hiderance. I like exactly what you said, but it's handled poorly. Cutscenes are a cop out to what they could do. Why not let us PLAY the cutscenes? Why not make them missions?

Oh, sorry for misunderstanding. I think MD is a good reflection of how the franchise is being handled. It feels like a mess. Each creative director, their team, and all of the other writers and artists for the comics and novels, seem to have their own idea of AC and how the MD should work. I wouldn't be surprise if most of them have never touched even half of the main games. The universe doesn't feel coherent to me. It's easy to pass most things off as non-canon, IMO, because there's so much inconsistencies and styles that don't match up with another. Syndicate's MD story feels like a completely different thing from AC1-2. But now I'm just ranting, so...


Comparing 2 different games when it comes to quality of cutscenes doesn't matter. Genre wise they are different, but they are both AAA games and more effort is put into the Witcher 3.

It looks nicer
Runs better
Has more fleshed out side missions
Actual animated cutscenes for side missions
Deeper combat
Fight or Flight (As in youre not a One Man Army and have to think during fights)

You're saying that these can't be compared to AC because its not the same style game? When it comes to effort in a AAA game, AC lacks it. The games have been very mediocre since AC4 and the franchise has not progressed one bit in any area thats a huge leap.

The issue I have with this argument is that you're using the words ''quality'' and ''effort'' as a point. Yes, TW3 was a phenomenal game and both more renown and critically received than Syndicate. I also agree with a lot of what your comparisons. But you're not arguing any of the points I wrote, so they don't mean anything. You're just arguing semantics. Every game developer, especially for AAA, wants to make a great game. They do! They work with what they have to the best of their abilities. Sometimes budget is tighter than other games in the series. Sometimes deadlines needs to be met, despite unpolishment. Sometimes projects get canceled. These are things you don't blame on laziness or lack of effort, they're usually out of the developers' control.

Anyway, as I told Mike in the other thread, I'm not saying the games can't be compared. I believe any games can be compared; I literally just compared them in my last post. The issue is that I disagree with your point, which is ''lazy'' development because Syndicate didn't have enough cutscenes in the side content for your liking. Would you say UC4 was ''lazy'' because it lacked an open-world? Probably not, because (for the most part *cough*), its linear design is perfect for the style of the game and its story. Similarly with ACS, it may not have been something you're crazy about, but the lack of cutscenes in most of the side content made for a more cohesive open world sandbox experience.

Farlander is a game developer with a lot more experience in game design so he probably has an interesting input here. So... if you're lurking, feel free to add or correct me. :p

pacmanate
07-17-2016, 02:23 AM
I wouldn't call AC a cohesive sandbox experience but thats probably because I think that the things it's filled with aren't exactly impressive.