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View Full Version : Why can't I destroy a Russian tank with the Stuka's 37mm guns?



XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 04:54 PM
Last night I was playing online and I was flying the Stuka with the 37mm cannons. Right next to my base was a column of Russian tanks, I attacked them over and over again but I could not destroy one. I know I was hitting it, I even crashed into a tank on several occasions, but nothing happened.

Is it just not possible to bust Russian armor with those 37mm cannons?

Thanks!

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 04:54 PM
Last night I was playing online and I was flying the Stuka with the 37mm cannons. Right next to my base was a column of Russian tanks, I attacked them over and over again but I could not destroy one. I know I was hitting it, I even crashed into a tank on several occasions, but nothing happened.

Is it just not possible to bust Russian armor with those 37mm cannons?

Thanks!

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 04:57 PM
I've read they were used more to disable tanks rather than destroy them outright. Could be way off the mark though. I'll find the source.

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XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 05:02 PM
Are you attacking from the rear? Weaker armour there.

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 05:02 PM
Dive on them (careful, no dive-brake on Ju87G), shot the turret from above.
Never attack from front or side. Best is from top -- one hit, one kill.

Good luck !

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 05:04 PM
37 mm shells are supposed to destroy tanks, as one of the vulnerable places of a tank is the upper part of the turret, where armor was much thinner than the front. And the Stuka dive angle while attacking is supposed to increas thes destruction power of the bullets, as well as speed. But this may not work for every type of tank, as I guess that later russian models were much more armoured than early ones...

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XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 05:10 PM
mikeyg007 wrote:
- Are you attacking from the rear? Weaker armour
- there.
-
-

The hull of T-34s was the same thickness on all 4 sides(45mm). The decking was thinner(20mm). The turret on the T-34/85 was 90mm, 75mm@, 52mm front to rear. On the T-34/76 the turret had 70mm, 52mm, 52mm front to rear.



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XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 05:11 PM
What kinda tanks? Their are a few Russian heavy tanks that are tough if not impossible to kill, similar to the german tiger, jagdtiger, and king tigers.

Also are you attacking the tops, sides, rear, front?

Many unknowns.

Most medium and heavy tanks are vulnerable (to varying degrees /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif ) from sides, rear, and top. Firing head on is useless in all but the lightest tanks.

Roy Baty
III/7/JG2

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- Col. Saito

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XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 05:14 PM
Always attack from above in a steep angle dive. Piece of cake, really.

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XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 05:16 PM
Its a known bug that the t34 can only be destroyed at the turrent . The 37 mm should be able to penetrate its armor from all sides at the right angle .

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 05:23 PM
The IS-2 had hull armour thicknesses of 120mm, 90mm, 60mm, front to rear. The turret was 90mm, 90mm, 90mm front to rear with a 30mm roof. The deck was 20mm.

The KV-1 had hull armour thicknesses of 75mm, 75mm, 70mm, front to rear. The turret had 75mm all round with a 40mm roof. The deck was 40-30mm.


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XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 06:02 PM
Climb to 500 meters..approach the tank from 6clock and once you are above and behind him, make a steep dive and aim for the engine compartment/back of the turret.. allways one hit - one kill. Atleast when it comes to T-34s/Shermans. Lighter tanks (such as T-70s/T-60s) seem to be easier to destroy from any direction.. Haven't really flown against heavy tanks (like IS-2) but it should be done the same way.. Stuka is the most effective tank killer in FB, as long as you can work alone without enemy fighters/ Flak /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 06:03 PM
Just blew up 4 Soviet tanks w/ the 37mm Stuka. No problemo. Side and rear shot=1 shot kill every time.
Fun as all get out too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
S!



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XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 07:17 PM
I was approaching from the front.

It's hard for me to get a direct hit on the tank, it's such a small target when diving down, and the cannons seem like they have a trajectory that messes up my aim.

Oh well, I'll try some more.

Thanks!



Oh ya, isn't there a Focke Wolfe that can perform tank busting?

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 07:45 PM
I'm currently reading "Panzer Leader" by General Guderian....he repeatedly states the inefficacy of anti-tank weapons under 50mm calibre against medium Soviet tanks, particularly mentioning the T34. He mentions that in order to kill a T34 with the inferior short-barrelled 75mm guns that PanzerIVs were equipped with in 1941, they had to position themselves to fire into the engine ventilation grate at the rear of the T34....pretty difficult.
He was referring to ground-based weapons which don't get the advantage of angle that aerial attacks get, so it seems the advice to attack at a steep angle is the best.

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 07:50 PM
It takes a bit of practice, I think I rammed a dozen or more tanks trying to get it right the first time, but now I can bust open 6-7 tanks per sortie. Trimming the Stuka is absolutly manditory. Otherwise you will never hit your target. IS-2's and KV-1's appear to be completly bullet proof. I have yet to kill one with the 37mm's on the Ju-87G. All other allied tanks can be killed by attacking from above.

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As we all know, the Soviet Union had too many fighter pilots during WW2. So Stalin's scientists came up with a brillient way to solve this problem. They would make some of their pilots fly British made Hurricanes. The Hurricane was an uber flying coffin. It was designed to maximize pilot kills by providing nothing but fabric and a few wooden spars around the cockpit. This setup prevented the pilot from escaping easily while at the same time not interfering with enemy bullets and shrapnel trying to pass through it. The rest of the Hurricanes structure was designed to ricochet bullets and shrapnel into the cockpit. And thanks to the cockpits superb design, all of them would pass through the cockpit and the pilot inside with little difficulty. Of course the Hurricane's designers didn't stop there. In order for the Hurricane to become a flying coffin, they had to make it easy to shoot. They did this by making the Hurricane the slowest monoplane fighter in use at the time and even gave it a very bulky shape so that it would be easy to spot and hit. The final feature of the Hurricane was its ability to bury or cremate itself. And because it was made of biodegradable materials, the Hurricane was environmentally friendly after it buried itself. Because of these brillient features, the Hurricane was a perfect flying coffin and helped the Soviets solve the pilot surplus they were suffering.
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XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 08:21 PM
Here is an interesting story about Hans Ulrich Rudel

Rudel logged 2,530 combat missions, and was granted almost no leave throughout his four years of active duty. Unlike his Allied counterparts, there was no magical number of missions which would mean a furlough home, once attained. For Rudel, as well as for all German pilots, it was a matter of "fly and fight until the war ends, or you are killed": consequently, almost all eventually fell, and today only a tiny handful survive.

Rudel's personal victories as a ground-attack pilot were achieved exclusively against the Soviets, and despite the most primitive conditions imaginable, including operations solely from dirt, mud, and snow covered airfields, his confirmed victories (those witnessed by two or more fellow pilots) include:

518+ Tanks
700 Trucks
150+ Flak and Artillery positions
9 Fighter/Ground Attack Aircraft
Hundreds of bridges, railway lines, bunkers, etc.
Battleship October Revolution, Cruiser Marat, and 70 landing craft
Through direct action, he saved tens of thousands of German infantrymen from certain encirclement and annihilation during the long retreat which began in July 43 and lasted until the war's end, almost two years later.



Shot down 32 times.
Innumerable aircraft brought back to base that were later written off, due to heavy combat damage.
Wounded on many occasions, including the partial amputation of his right leg in the Spring of 45, after which he continued to fly with a prosthetic limb.
March 44: Disaster struck when Rudel landed behind Soviet lines to retrieve a downed German aircrew. Snow and mud bogged down the airplane, making it impossible to take off. Approaching Soviet troops forced everyone to flee on foot, but barring their escape was the 900 foot wide river Dnjestr. The Germans stripped to their longjohns, and swam across the ice-clogged river. Rudel's close friend and crewman, Erwin Henstchel, drowned a few feet from the far shore. They had flown 1490 missions together at the time of Hentschel's death. His body was never recovered.

Rudel was pursued by hundreds of Soviet troops who were intent on collecting the 100,000 ruble bounty which Stalin had placed on his head, and he was shot in the shoulder while they chased him with dogs and on horseback. Through incredible ingenuity, audacity, and raw determination, Rudel escaped and made his way, alone and unarmed, back home, despite being more than 30 miles behind Soviet lines when he began his 24 hour trek. He was barefoot and almost naked in the sub-freezing winter weather, without food, compass, or medical attention. His escape stands as the single most legendary example of personal bravery and luck during the Second World War, but he never fully recovered emotionally from Hentschel's death, for which he blamed himself throughout the remainder of his life.

This came from an article on a web page.

Tony

Happy hunting and check six!

Tony Ascaso, RN

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 08:53 PM
Gee Tony, if you are in the RN, you should know that the Marat(Petropalovsk) was classed as a battleship./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

No doubt Rudel did much damage but look at all those P-47s that claimed they destroyed Tigers with their 50 cals.


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Cpt.LoneRanger
07-02-2003, 09:25 PM
The USAF wasn't as successfully, as it thought it was in WW2. Infact, the Anti-Submarine-forces, for example, claimed a LOT of sunken German subs.
After the war it turned out, that US-pilots sunk almost 300% of the German overall submarine-losses..... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

So, I think this Cal.50-thingie should not be taken TOO seriously....

greets
Cpt.LoneRanger

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 09:36 PM
Cpt.LoneRanger wrote:
-
- So, I think this Cal.50-thingie should not be taken
- TOO seriously....
-
-

I was not being serious about the 50 cals - tongue was in the cheek./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Did you miss the 20pg 'P-47 vs Tiger' thread?


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XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 09:53 PM
Some tanks you can't destroy no matter where you hit them. Light tanks such as the T-60 and Med. tanks like the T-34 you can destroy with relative ease. Son't waste your time on heavy tanks like the KV-1s, IS-2s and the Tiger seriev (Panzer VIE/VIB series)
Also, AT guns such as the SU-76 are easy kills, they may have a big gun, but alomost no armor. Exceptions being the SU-100, ISU-152, Jagpanter and Elefant

Cpt.LoneRanger
07-02-2003, 10:03 PM
MiloMorai wrote:
-
- Cpt.LoneRanger wrote:
--
-- So, I think this Cal.50-thingie should not be taken
-- TOO seriously....
--
--
-
-
- I was not being serious about the 50 cals - tongue
- was in the cheek./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Did you miss the 20pg 'P-47 vs
- Tiger' thread?

Hehehe, yes, I read it =)

I had some moments ROFL, when I wondered, why ANY tank should have any gun bigger than the allmighty Cal.50 =)

So, I didn't take it that serious and I thought about that P47 vs TigerTanks-Thread, too - just had to post it, cause some guys take propaganda for real. =)


greets
Cpt.LoneRanger

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 10:09 PM
Cpt.LoneRanger wrote:
-
-
- Hehehe, yes, I read it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
- I had some moments ROFL, when I wondered, why ANY
- tank should have any gun bigger than the allmighty
- Cal.50 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
- So, I didn't take it that serious and I thought
- about that P47 vs TigerTanks-Thread, too - just had
- to post it, cause some guys take propaganda for
- real. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-

Yup, there was a few of them in that thread./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


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Message Edited on 07/02/0308:36PM by MiloMorai

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 10:56 PM
That stuff on Rudel is amazing. Didn't he get the only Knight's Cross with Golden Cluster/Swords/Diamonds?

Is there a book on his experiences?

Thanks!

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 11:17 PM
Achilles97 wrote:
- That stuff on Rudel is amazing. Didn't he get the
- only Knight's Cross with Golden
- Cluster/Swords/Diamonds?
-
- Is there a book on his experiences?

Stuka-Oberst Hans-Ulirch Rudel
280 pages
Motorbuch Verlag Stuttgart
ISBN 3-87943-390-9

That book is in German language, but maybe there's a English translation on that.

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Kimura

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 06:17 PM
There is a book that lists two translators, and has an english title, but doesn't specifically say it's in english. It's "Stuka-Pilot Hans-Ulrich Rudel: His Life Story in Words In Photographs". I'm not sure if the "in photographs" is a spelling error or not, just copied it word for word from Amazon.com's page. Hope this helps. And there is one that is BY H.U. Rudel, called "Stuka Pilot (War and Warrior).


Tim Schuster
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Kunsan AB, Korea

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XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 07:12 PM
It's cause your not using AMERICAN .50 cal's. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 07:43 PM
Well I know of at least one that the US anti-sub forces sank. I visited one on a scuba diving trip. Its shattered hull sits in about 130ft of water off Block Island RI.

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 08:35 PM
Yes there is a book about Rudel I have forgotten the title but do a search. I did not write the post I merely copied it from another source...the error on the Marat sorry! Oh, and no its not Royal Navy. It is Registered Nurse, I am the guy that takes care of your sickly butt and makes sure the MD does not kill you! That is for the you-know-who that was quick to point out my error on the Marat.

Who knows if he is correct anyway the point is that Rudel was a specialist at what he did and not many others could even approach his feats with the Stuka.

Average amount of bombs to destroy one German tank in WWII is about 800.

So when you go out and miss the target....its OK lots of pilots missed, never saw the target or even bombed their own troops. Such is war.

Anyway I enjoy IL-2 and FB for what it is .... a Game.
Man what fun it is!!!!

Tony Ascaso
Registered Nurse

Happy hunting and check six!

Tony Ascaso, RN

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 12:26 AM
Stuka Pilot is the name of Rudel's autobiography. You may find it in original paperback in used bookstores. I assume its still available new. The escape described above failed to mention the fate of the other crew persons/personettes Rudel tried to pick up. They refused to try the river (very *very* cold), and Rudel saw them get captured when he was on the other side. Rudel's long life as active skier/sportsman is what allowed him to cross the river.

Rudel stopped into a shack and there was olde woman peasant who fed him bread...."best meal of my life" /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif and let him sleep over. (hhmmmm /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif )

Also, Rudel hid out in weeds in fields, and knew enough about stars to locate one bright one (I figure Sirius as this was winter--hence the cold lethal river water) in the South sky and that took care of the compass. The guy was a real outdoorsman.



Message Edited on 07/03/0311:29PM by LEXX_Luthor

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 12:32 AM
I know that you can open up the Valentine MkIII s with the 30 mm Mg108 cannons on the 262. Got three that way last night.

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 01:03 AM
whereas its a known fact that Tigers could be killed by large rocks from above, especially if dropped by P47's, the only way to kill a T34 from the air was to drop a Tiger tank on it

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 01:11 AM
WTE_Galway wrote:
- whereas its a known fact that Tigers could be killed
- by large rocks from above, especially if dropped by
- P47's, the only way to kill a T34 from the air was
- to drop a Tiger tank on it
-
-

Once and for all, get it right man!!! It was spit, not rocks.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 02:30 AM
You can also destroy torpedo boats with the Stuka G, but it takes a few hits. For that matter, all the 23mm-37mm guns and rockets can destroy small boats and subs.

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 02:33 AM
The 37 MM AT Guns was called Panzeranklopfger├┬Ąt http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

somthing like Tankknockthing in English



,...

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 02:51 AM
EjGr.OST_Walli wrote:
- The 37 MM AT Guns was called Panzeranklopfger├┬Ąt http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
-
- somthing like Tankknockthing in English
-
-
-
- ,...
-
-
-
-
-
-

This is just silly. The 3,7cm PaK 36, 3,7cm KwK 38(t) L/48 and the Stuka's BK 18 3,7cm guns are all different weapons firing different ammo.

3,7cm KwK 38(t) L/48 fires a Panzergranate 39 (listed as such but actually a Solid shot) penetrating 67mm of vertical armour at 100m. (Czech gun)

3,7cm PaK 36 fires a Panzergranate 39 (AP Shell with HE burster) will penetrate 51mm of vertical armour at 100m. (German gun in less than 300 PIIIs and as the main anti tank gun of the infantry until 1942).

The BK 3,7 (which used a slightly more powerful 37x263B cartridge) had a special lightweight tungsten-cored shot (Hartkernmunition) fired at a very high velocity (380g at 1,170 m/s). The above is the ammunition carried for tank busting by He129s and Ju87 Gs. The Harkern APCR rounds do suffer more versus high striking angles (low T/D ratio) and spaced armour.
The APCR ammo punched through 146mm of vertical RHA (aka armour that's less brittle or "stronger" than high hardness T-34 armour) at 100 metres.


"Germany fielded several different guns in the anti-tank role. The first was the 30mm MK 101, which used powerful 30x184B ammunition. This was later supplanted by the MK103, which used an electric-primed version of the same cartridge, with the same performance. The MK 101 used a short-recoil design, and in its anti-armour role was fed by a 30-round drum. The lighter, more compact and faster-firing MK 103 used a hybrid gas+recoil system and was belt-fed. Various AP rounds were used, but the most effective was the Hartkernmunition, which had a penetrating core of tungsten carbide sheathed in a light-alloy shell with a sharply-pointed profile. This could penetrate 75-90 mm / 300 m / 90 degrees (depending on the type of armour), dropping to 42-52 mm when impacting at 60 degrees.

The remaining German guns were all adaptations of ground guns. The first was the 37 mm BK 3,7, a modified version of the FlaK 18 AA gun firing the same 37x263B ammunition. This meant that it was bulky, heavy and slow-firing by comparison with the NS-37, for example. It also remained clip-fed, with a maximum capacity of just 12 rounds. It mainly fired Hartkernmunition ammo, capable of penetrating up to 140 mm / 100 m / 90 degrees although this was halved at a striking angle of 60 degrees.

The remaining German guns were adaptations of ground anti-tank guns with long-recoil mechanisms, and saw little use. These were the BK 5 (also briefly used for air combat in the anti-bomber role) which was a PaK 38 fitted with an autoloader and a 22-round magazine for its 50x419R ammunition. It is unclear whether this saw action in the anti-tank role. More famously, the PaK 40, which fired massive 75x714R cartridges, was used in two versions; a semi-automatic one with a 10-round vertical magazine, and the fully-automatic BK 7,5 with a 12-round rotary magazine. This could penetrate 132 mm / 500 m / 90 degrees (104 mm / 500 m / 60 degrees) when used on the ground, so was clearly capable of dealing with the toughest tank. Both BK 5 and BK 7,5 fired the normal APCHE projectiles, which were more destructive and reliable in their penetration than the Hartkernmunition rounds, being less affected by unfavourable striking angles or add-on armour plates." from http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/tankbusters.htm

At most normal attack angles and ranges the T-34 armour is pretty vunrable to German air anti-tank guns, except in IL2 and FB...