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LeadSpitter_
05-16-2004, 12:08 AM
http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_005/Do%20335%20A-12%20tandem%20trainer.jpg

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_005/Blom%20&%20Voss%20BV%20141.jpg

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_005/Mistel%202%20%20(Fw%20190F-8%20&%20Ju%2088G-1)%20-%20captured%20May%20'45.jpg

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_005/Do%2017Z%20refuelling.jpg

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_005/Mistel%201%20-%20Bf%20109F%20&%20Ju%2088.jpg

b17 survives 109 rammjagers
http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_006/109ram.jpg

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_006/b17_000.jpg

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_006/AC%20B-17%20severe%20damage%20to%20nose.jpg

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_006/B17InTheWay.jpg

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_006/B-24%2044-50838%20714th%20Sqn%20448th%20BG%20shot%20down%20b y%20Me%20262s%204%20Apr%2045.jpg

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_006/Me%20410%20narrowly%20misses%20ain%20a%20mid%20air %20with%20388th%20BG%20B-17.jpg

[This message was edited by LeadSpitter_ on Sat May 15 2004 at 11:26 PM.]

LeadSpitter_
05-16-2004, 12:08 AM
http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_005/Do%20335%20A-12%20tandem%20trainer.jpg

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_005/Blom%20&%20Voss%20BV%20141.jpg

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_005/Mistel%202%20%20(Fw%20190F-8%20&%20Ju%2088G-1)%20-%20captured%20May%20'45.jpg

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_005/Do%2017Z%20refuelling.jpg

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_005/Mistel%201%20-%20Bf%20109F%20&%20Ju%2088.jpg

b17 survives 109 rammjagers
http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_006/109ram.jpg

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_006/b17_000.jpg

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_006/AC%20B-17%20severe%20damage%20to%20nose.jpg

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_006/B17InTheWay.jpg

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_006/B-24%2044-50838%20714th%20Sqn%20448th%20BG%20shot%20down%20b y%20Me%20262s%204%20Apr%2045.jpg

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_006/Me%20410%20narrowly%20misses%20ain%20a%20mid%20air %20with%20388th%20BG%20B-17.jpg

[This message was edited by LeadSpitter_ on Sat May 15 2004 at 11:26 PM.]

Jagdgeschwader2
05-16-2004, 12:58 AM
Good old B-17 can take a lickin and keep on tickin. I hate to think of what happened to the radio operator and bombadier in the 7th. photo it could not have been good. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif


Some links:

Battle Damaged B-17s
http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/contents.htm

http://www.303rdbga.com/links.html

B-24 info
http://www.b24bestweb.com/

Bf-109s
http://www.messerschmitt-bf109.de/index-1024.php


RAF and other aircraft photos
http://www.mikekemble.com/ww2/aircraft.html

A speck of dirt on your windscreen could turn into an enemy fighter in the time it took to look round and back again. A little smear on your goggles might hide the plane that was coming in to kill you.
Derek Robinson
From the book Piece of Cake.

T_O_A_D
05-16-2004, 01:05 AM
Cool nice find LS!

Have you checked your Private Topics recently? (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=ugtpc&s=400102)
My TrackIR fix, Read the whole thread (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=49310655&m=15310285&p=1)
131st_Toad's Squad link (http://www.geocities.com/vfw_131st/)
http://home.mchsi.com/~131st_vfw/T_O_A_D.jpg

Extreme_One
05-16-2004, 03:41 AM
Cool.

Ive actually seen those pics before of the B-17 being bombed from above. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif
I guess some heads rolled after that one.

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the USAAF & RAF campaign folders here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-10.html).

Download "North and South" including the Japanese speech-pack here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-12.html). *NEW*

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/simplysimon-Ex_1_sig.jpg

Vortex_uk
05-16-2004, 04:23 AM
Nice,but what is that in the second pic? it looks like some sort of modified Ju-88 crossed with a Fw-189 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

And the pic with the B-17 dropping bombs on a friendly B-17 in mid-air was pretty funny http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-

http://img63.photobucket.com/albums/v193/Vortex_uk/zerosaburo.jpg


"We are not retreating, we are advancing in another direction. " ~ Gen. MacArthur

HyperLobby name : Vortex_uk

NegativeGee
05-16-2004, 04:34 AM
I remember seeing one book (don't ask me which- it was a big volume concerned with the whole of WW2) that had the set of photo's where the B-17 loses the tail plane to the bomb strike.

The caption said none of the crew escaped the bomber, and were all killed.

Is that true, or just some authors' over active imagination at work?

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Gunther Rall

http://www.invoman.com/images/tali_with_hands.jpg

Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!

Jagdgeschwader2
05-16-2004, 06:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NegativeGee:
I remember seeing one book (don't ask me which- it was a big volume concerned with the whole of WW2) that had the set of photo's where the B-17 loses the tail plane to the bomb strike.

The caption said none of the crew escaped the bomber, and were all killed.

Is that true, or just some authors' over active imagination at work?

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Gunther Rall

http://www.invoman.com/images/tali_with_hands.jpg

Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was more than likely true. Once the aircraft starts a death roll you will be pinned to the interior by g-forces.

Read this story. I beleive it was posted here by somone.

BRACELET IN THE SAND


July, 1999 USAF Missing Persons Bulletin Board:


"I hope that you can help me with this enquiry. About 1 year ago I was metal detecting on the North coast of Belgium, close to Ostend and found a sterling silver identitiy bracelet. This bracelet was completely black and by the amount of work needed to remove the black layer of oxidation from it I can only assume that it had been buried in the sand for many years. The bracelet plate has the US Airforce pilots wings symbol applied to the front surface and under the wings the name ASHLEY M. GUYNN has been engraved. On the reverse side the number 0-746256 is engraved ( I am not sure whether the first character is a letter O or a zero ).

Would it be possible for you to investigate this and advise how this bracelet was lost. Was it lost during an operation during WW11? If so, would it be possible to let me know the details of what occurred. I am extremely curious about this. If it indeed was caused during action perhaps the owner survived and would like his bracelet returned, or if he is no longer alive perhaps there are close relatives alive who may cherish this bracelet, in which case I would gladly contact these and arrange its return. I would be very grateful if you could investigate this matter for me, or if you are unable to access this information would you kindly advise whom I could contact to help me further.

Thanks very much in advance.

Yours truly

Martin Collins

Rattlesden, England: Christmas Eve, 1943

1st Lieutenant Ashley Marion Guynn and his crew, complete their inaugural bombing mission over a V-1 rocket site as members of the 3rd Bomber Division's 447th Bomber Group. They fly the B-17 they brought over from the U.S.

Ostend Belgium July, 1998
Son of a British WW2 RAF officer, Martin Collins continues his walk down the beach. He swings the scanner of his metal detector back and forth across the sand, waiting for a signal that would alert him to the presence of invisible metal objects. Martin is enjoying his vacation days on the coast of the English Channel near Ostend Belgium. His metal detector is a hobby he and his wife have enjoyed for quite some time, garnering over the years, jewelery, coins, and other objects of varying value. He has no premonition that he is about to unearth an object that will stretch across the boundries of time and distance.

The sound changes in his earphones almost unperceptibly. Faint traces of something buried in the sand. Kneeling down at the spot, he digs. Soon an object appears. Blackened and corroded, the object appears to be some sort of a bracelet. By its condition it is clear the object has been buried in the sand for some time. Peering intently at the bracelet, Martin makes out a barely discernible inscription. He looks forward to getting back home and cleaning up the bracelet. Perhaps, if he is careful and thorough, he will be able to make sense of the inscription. Arriving home, he meticulously removes the layers of loosened corrosion. There is a name and a series of letters and numbers. Time passes, the name and numbers continue to stare back at him, their mystery nagging at him for some reason. His instincts tell him it belongs to a fallen veteran. He starts his search to find the family of the owner.

Rattlesden, England: April 27, 1944
Staff Sergeant John Northrup has only been in his bunk a short time when he hears the sound of a jeep approaching. It is mid afternoon and Northrup is enjoying the sack time after afternoon chow. He'd only been with the 447th Bomb Group a short time, after transferring in from the 385th. He had flown three missions with the 385th before his regular crew had been lost. He'd transferred to the 447th as a replacement crewman and had flown six missions already, as a fill in on a number of different crews.

The door opens and a Sergeant sticks his head in. "Grab your flight gear, you are flying this afternoon!" Northrup quickly grabs his gear and hops in the jeep for the ride out to the hardstand where the B17 he is assigned to is waiting. He has no idea where the mission is going as he has missed briefing. As he approachs, Northrup can see three of the four engines of the bomber were already started. The engine closest to the entrance hatch in the nose is stopped to allow him to climb aboard safely. Throwing his gear aboard, Northrup climbs in the nose of the Flying Fortress and continues to get into his flight clothes as the big bomber taxies out for take off.

Minnesota, October, 1999
Dan checks his e-mail late one evening. His wife is working the late shift at the community's critical care hospital, and he is just finishing tucking in the youngest of their three youngsters away for a good night's sleep. Now part of his daily routine, he must use his computer to stay in touch with his many friends and contacts. He has found that being a dad is indeed a life-changing event as was promised, and the vast majority of any socializing not revolving around the children must be of the "high-tech" variety. With half of an ear tuned for any last minute rustlings from the kids, he sets about sorting through the dozen or so messages that have arrived during the day.

One particularly catches his eye; a friend in California has forwarded him a copy of the message posted on the USAF missing persons bulletin board he came across by accident. After reading through it twice, and having run into many dead-ends over the years on similar quests, he knows that there is only an outside chance that he can be of any immediate assistance. Setting it aside for the moment, he finishes up the rest of the day's messages. It will be hours still before Cathy returns from the bedlam of the emergency room, so he crawls into bed after setting the alarm to greet her when she returns. Vague images of a standard USAAF Officer's ID bracelet and the name Ashley M. Guynn intrude upon his consciousness. No matter; he is asleep within minutes.

Israel October, 1999
After three months of waiting, a message arrives for Martin Collins from the United States. The message does not say much; but it is from someone who saw his bulletin board inquiry concerning an ID bracelet he found. All that is promised is that the sender will try to help out in his quest. There is a vague mention that the he has had some success in the past in similar situations. Due to a catastrophic fire in St. Louis, Mo. some years earlier, thousands of military files were lost forever, and that if anything, it is a long-shot at best. Martin needs no reminding of this, as he has run into nothing but dead-ends for the past year himself, but is grateful that someone has volunteered to help him.

Minnesota October 1999
Dan is in luck. A couple of well-placed calls has yielded the answers he was looking for. A friend "inside" has located just the information he might be looking for. It is a "Missing Air Crew Report". At the end of the call, all he knows is that there is information on the way about the crew of the B-17 "42-107197" flown on April 27, 1944. He waits anxiously for three days for the mail to arrive.

Israel, October, 1999
Martin Collins reads the message from Dan Johnson again. He cannot believe it. After all this time, it appears he will finally learn of the bracelet and the fate of Ashley Guynn that has filled his thoughts for over a year. He takes some quiet time to reflect upon his own father's war experience in Great Britains Royal Air Force.

Stationed in the U.K. until 1942, the senior Collins was aboard a troop ship about to arrive in Signapore as the Japanese invasion forces, were about to land, Collin's ship was turned around and after wandering the Pacific for some time, ended up porting on California's West Coast. For the duration of the war his duties consisted of doing public relations on behalf of His Majesty's Royal Air Force. The senior Collins returned to England and after meeting and marrying Martin's mother-to-be, slipped happily and quietly back into civilian life, exhausted; yet grateful that he was so fortunate.

Rattlesden, England April 27, 1944
In the cockpit of the B17, Pilot 1st Lt. Ashley Guynn and Co-pilot 2nd Lt. Richard Bender work together to taxi the bomber out to the runway for take off. They'd been through the briefing and knew the plan. The 447th was for the first time in their short history, flying a second raid in one day; a bombing mission to hit a target in France, following a mission into Germany earlier in the day. Their plane had picked up some flak damage in the nose in the day's first mission (flown by another crew) but not enough to seriously hamper their operational status. The Guynn crew was to fly in the number four position in the formation made up of 18 B17s.

There had been a couple of changes in the crew since their arrival, not because of problems, but due to fate or bad luck. Lt. Guynn's original co-pilot 2nd Lt. Richard Lindemann and his first engineer/top turret gunner, T/Sgt. Louis Guentner had both been lost on February 20, while filling in on the crew of Lt. Finfinger. Lindemann was killed and Guentner was captured by the Germans. Ironically it had been Lindemann who had filled in for this mission's co-pilot Richard Bender when Bender had come down with an illness that grounded him for a short time. Guentner had filled in for T/Sgt. John Thomas. Thomas, now manned the Top turret just behind Guynn and Bender. Bender and Thomas now had no crew, and were assigned to Guynn's crew, from whence Guenter and Lindemann had come; in effect trading places.

Ashley Guynn and his crew were on their 23rd mission. They had been with 447th Bomb Group from the time it was formed in the United States and had flown one of the group's B17s over to England. They had flown on the Group's inaugural combat mission on Christmas Eve, 1943 and were now considered veterans, closing in fast on their 25th and final mission.


At 1610 hours the last "Flying Fortress" from the 447th started its roll down the runway having been preeceded by the others at short intervals. Shortly they were formed up over the English Channel and began the flight towards France.

Albany, Oregon October 1999
Physicist James Ashley Guynn arrives home from work late in the day. From his answering machine, he retrieves a message left by a Dan Johnson calling from Minnesota about "WW2", a "B-17" and "Ashley Guynn." The message he leaves says he hopes he has reached the "right" Guynn and apologizes for any possible intrusion or incovenience, but will try to contact him later that evening. James knows that caller has in fact reached the "right Guynn." Somewhat apprehensively, his hands and his thoughts begin to sort through a few old photos and some distant, yet poingant memories. When Dan phones back, James confirms that he is the nephew and namesake of Ashley Guynn. Better yet, he has a phone number that is he is certain will be of help to Dan.



Chico, California: October 1999:
With a gracious greeting and a delightful personality that even advancing years cannot hide, Phyllis listens briefly as Dan introduces himself. He tells her of his and Martin's quest. She listens quietly and patiently while Dan speaks of the reason for his call. When he is finished, Phyllis spends the next hour charming Dan with recollections of her young husband, Ashley Guynn.


English Channel: April 27, 1944

Settled into formation in the assigned number four slot, Ashley Guynn and his crew proceeded in their combat boxes with the rest of the flight of 18 bombers. With continued skilled flying and a little luck, the crew would get their bombs on target and return to Rattlesden safely.

Ashley himself would soon be stateside with his high-school and then college sweet-heart and new bride, Phyllis Snow if they could complete two more missions after this one. He and Phyllis were engaged for a year and a half and were finally married in 1943; the very same day he had finished training in New Mexico.

With good fortune, they could resume their life together, and hopefully the war could be won and he could return to the quiet yet rewarding life teaching elementary school kids. With even more luck, he and Phyllis would have some children of their own.

They looked forward to raising a family; afterall he had been on his own for much of his life and knew the ropes of growing-up pretty well. His own mother died the year he was born and his father followed 19 years later in 1939. Ashley does not feel sorry for himself however. He is a descendent of a large pioneer family who had settled in Chico. Its a quiet scenic town nestled in the northern reaches of California's Central Valley getting its start during the Gold Rush Days. A nice town he and Phyllis hoped to return to. Though he was a quiet, easy-going young man, he never had problems making friends and was well liked and respected by all who came to know him, especially his crew.

English Channel April 27, 1944:
As the formation of bombers drones on towards France, John Northrup, in the nose of the Guynn B17, finished getting his flight clothes on. He then got a crash course in manning the nose guns and operating the Norden bombsight from the regular bombardier, 2nd Lt. Reed Hollister. Hollister in turn was filling in for the crew's regular navigator, 2nd Lt. Bernard Hadler who had failed to show up for the mission briefing. Holliste's parting words to Northrup before he resumes his own duties: "If anyone can get us back its Ash Guynn. He's the best pilot in the squadron!"

Finally settled into his flying clothes and with an understanding of what was expected of him, John Northrup turned to his job in the very front of the plane. He felt a cold breeze coming from somewhere. Spotting a small flak hole in the nose-glass, from the day's previous mission, Northrup took his chest pack parachute and used it to cover the hole, stopping the cold air that was hitting him in the face.

Rattlesden, England - April 27, 1944,
Back at Rattlesden, Guynn's regular bombardier, Bernie Hadler arrives back at the base from an early afternoon bike ride to find his crew had gone on a mission he was not aniticipating, without him.

English Channel - April 27, 1944,
The bombers have reached their bombing altitude of 18,000 feet as they approach the French coast. The gunners in the rear of the plane move to their positions and check their guns. Waist gunner, Charles "Pop" Mouser helps his buddy, Bernie Weis squeeze into the cramped quarters of his ball turret. "Pop" closes the turret hatch behind Bernie and watches as Weis spins and rotates the turret hanging from the belly of the plane. Satisfied that all is well, Pop turnes towards his own waist-gun stationed at the open window on the right side of the plane. Just behind him, left waist gunner Ed Kucinski test fires his gun. At the back of the plane tail gunner Ernie Hernandez kneels at his twin 50 caliber machine guns and scans the sky around him looking for enemy aircraft.

Sergeant George Swingle, in the radio room has also readied his single machine gun. It points out of the open hatch above his compartment behind the bomb bay of the B17. He hopes he does not have to use it against the Luftwaffe pilots who have taken to making head-on passes with their canon-armed Focke-Wulfs. At the same time he monitors the radio for any messages that might be directed at the bombers.

With the crews set, the bombers cross the coast and head for their target. It is quiet on the radios inside the planes except for the periodic oxygen checks. At 18,000 feet all of the crews are on the oxygen necessary to keep them alive in the thin frigid air at higher altitude.

Tennessee - October, 1999
The daughter of Radio Operator George Swingle answers the phone. She is at a loss as to why her father's name and phone number is still listed in the phone book. He passed away 26 years ago in 1973. Puzzled, she knows very little of her father during the years before she was born. There had been vague references to "Bombers", "The War", "The Army Air Force", but little else. "Dad just did not talk about it much." Cautiously, quietly, yet brightly, Dan illuminates for her and her son and her brother, the bravery and sense of duty of their father, and her son's grandfather as a very young man.

South Carolina - October, 1999
Former USAAF B-17 bombardier John "Jerry" Northrup picks up the receiver for the umpteenth time that day. He is more than a little taken aback by the suddeness of hearing from a stranger who is trying to piece together the events of the April 27, 1944 flight. It has been 55 years since that time. And while he has been very active in Veterans' and POW affairs in South Carolina for many years, that a stranger would phone asking him such specific questions about that particular flight is a little unnerving. Nevertheless, his curiosity piqued, John Northrup listens as Dan explains to him the ID bracelet that Martin Collins has found. Giving himself time to collect his thoughts, John "Jerry" Northrup reaches across the years and begins to unfold his story of that flight

France - April 27, 1944,
Nearing the primary target the lead crew and mission commander see that the target is covered by cloud. He elects to move the formation on to a secondary target, the German airfield at Le Culot, France. The bombing goes off without incident and Northrup, manages to pickle the bomb load on the target by timing his release to coincide with that of the lead plane. So far, the Luftwaffe is still on the ground and the flak over the target is not a factor. He crosses his fingers hoping the mission will turn out to be a "milk-run".

Florida - November, 1999
Luck! Former Guynn co-pilot and aviation magazine contributor, Richard Bender is finally reached. Miraclously he has an almost photographic recollection of the entire flight and after listening briefly about the bracelet, he goes to great lengths, to give insight as both a professional writer and as a crewmember. He has committed himself to the self-discipline of a meticulous adherence to facts and details. He and Mrs. Bender are enjoying their retirement years. They hope she can have her surgery scheduled so they can be be at home together in time for Christmas. A consumate professional, he details in an extraordinary manner the flight of April 27, 1944. And while he has written numerous published articles in aviation magazines and other publications, he has never written his own and he and Dan will start putting the piece together right after the holidays.

Ostend, Belgian Coast, English Channel - April 27, 1944
Turning for home and moving across Belgium towards England, the planes run into a ferocious head wind. Their progress towards England slows to a snail's pace. To the crews in the planes it feesl like they were hardly moving as they approached the coast near Ostend, Belgium. In effect, they are little more than stationary targets for the heavy German anti-aircraft fire. As they cross over the town of Ostend , the flak begins to fire. From the nose of the Guynn B17, it looks to John Northrup like "cigarettes being lit" when he sees the flashes from the ground of the guns opening fire. The flak intensifies as the crew braces against the barrage.

With the progress of the formation slowed by the head wind, it does not take long for the flak to begin to get the range, the sounds of the bursting shells audible over the drone of the planes engines. Suddenly a cry from tail gunner Ernie Hernandez pierces the intercom as a flak shell explodes near the tail of the Guynn plane. Almost immediately, his anguish is followed by another flak round scoring a direct hit on the number two engine. It sets the engine and the left wing fuel tank on fire.

Lt. Guynn realizes the plane is doomed and stabs at the bail-out bell but gets no sound. Lt. Bender flips the intercom switch and yells at the crew to bail out but gets no reply. Checking all five channels without success, it is clear that the intercom and electrical system are out. They are running out of time. As Ashley Guynn attempts to trim the plane as best he can, to give himself and the others a fighting chance to escape, the crew on the flight deck begin to undo the straps on their seats and prepare to bail out.

In the radio room, George Swingle is rocked by the second blast right after hearing Ernie Hernandez over the intercom and looks out the window towards the left wing. He sees the fire streaming from the engine and fuel tank and knew it was time to get out. Hooking on his chest pack parachute, he opens the door and moves quickly towards the rear escape hatch. Spotting the two waist gunners looking dazed in their positions he grabs the closest and pulls him towards the door. After releasing the door, he pulls himself and Ed Kucinski out of the plane, pulling Kucinski's ripcord first--and then his own. The two men are the first to escape the fatally injured Fortress.

Back in the waist, Pop Mouser comes to his senses after the second explosion, and turns towards the ball turret where his buddy Bernie Weis is trapped. Cranking the turret desperately until the escape hatch is inside the plane, he snatches and pulls at Bernie until he can wrestle him out. They both prepare to bail out. The plane is beginning its final dive towards the ground, out of control; the clock has run out.

In the nose, John Northrup gets bounced around by the hit of the second artillery round and senses the plane beginning to nose over. Peering out the nose he can see the ground filling the view and knows the B-17 is in its death throes. It is time to leave. Crawling back towards the nose escape hatch he can see Reed Hollister and John Thomas at the hatch with Hollister working desperately to open it. Suddenly Northrup is pulled to a stop by the wires to his electrical flight suit, his radio and the hose from his oxygen mask. In his haste to get out he'd forgotten to unhook himself. Quickly he unhooks from all the lines and starts moving again, just then realizing he'd forgotten his chute that was covering the hole in the hose. Going back a second time, he grabs his pack, hooks it to his harness and moves to the hatch, waiting for the other two men to leave first.

As Hollister leaves the plane, the left wing suddenly folds up. The bomber spins wildly out of control, trapping the other men inside with centrifugal force. John Northrup lay pinned in the nose by the sheer force of the spin. It is too late to get out. He wishes for unconsciousness so he won't have to endure his last agonizing seconds in gravity's rush to the ground. As quickly as the thought comes, he is knocked out by something loose crashing around the nose.

In the back of the plane, Pop Mouser begins to climb towards the escape hatch as the bomber entered its death spin. He is stunned by something and his movement stops. Ernie Hernandez never gets out of the tail, dead or seriously wounded. Bernie Weis is also trapped in the rear of the falling plane.

In the cockpit, Richard Bender has managed to grab his chest pack from the back of his seat and hook it on. He sees John Thomas sitting near the tunnel to the nose hatch and motions him forward. He then sees Thomas roll into the tunnel. Behind him he can feel Ashley Guynn moving as well. Bender decides to try and get the bomb bay doors open and jump that way, while Guynn moves into the tunnel towards the nose where Thomas has just rolled. Despite his efforts, the bomb bay doors will not open, and Bender sees flames through the crack on the bottom of the plane. As the wing folds Bender feels himself rolled and trapped against the ceiling of the flight deck. . Something covers his eyes and he can feel things rolling around him.

Ostend, Belgium -- April 27, 1944
Silence.

The noise of the engines and the falling plane was gone. The plane had exploded in mid-air.

Richard Bender managed to push whatever was covering his eyes away from his face and saw the sky. Around him were nothing but fragments of airplane rushing earthbound in a mock race toward the earth in gravity's pull. The largest part he recognizes is the vertical tail flipping down towards the Channel. He could clearly read the 197 of the serial number as it fell away.

Looking down for the ripcord, Bender sees what looks like canvas ripped and flapping from the fall. Fearing it was his chute pack, he decides to pull the ripcord to find out. After an eternity lasting mere seconds, it opens and is intact. The ripped fabric was instead from his flight overalls that were shredded from the ankle to the crotch. As his fall slows under the chute, he can see a spiral of black smoke falling to the ground. Three or four parachutes appear and his heart sinks to think so few have made it out.

John Northrup comes around to find himself hanging from his parachute, with no knowledge of how he'd escaped the plane. Looking up he can see his chute is torn, but is somehow still doing the job as he drifts down towards a farmer's field. His traumatized body soon lapses him back into unconscious darkness.

Pop Mouser in the rear of the plane came around as well to find himself still in the aircraft. Looking up he could see the tail of the plane had been ripped away. Looking down, he could see Bernie Weis sitting near the ball turret. To his shock he also saw that the front of the plane was gone as well -- from the radio room forward.

He and Weiss were falling in the remains of the fuselage between the tail and main wing. He quickly made his escape out the rear, while Bernie Weis fell out the front. They had miraculously survived the mid-ari explosion. Both men pulled their chutes and began to drift down, watching the remains of their plane fall in pieces. Some few parts fell outside of the town of Ostend. Most of the plane's remains hit and sank forever in the waters of the Channel.

Ostend, Belgium -- April 27, 1944
Ashley Guynn, John Thomas and Ernie Hernandez had failed to get out of the plane in time, trapped in the remains by the forces of the death spin just before it exploded in mid-air.
The Guynn plane was the only bomber of the eighteen that did not return.

For the survivors, the immediate future meant capture and a grim life as a prisoner of war.

John Northrup landed in a field and was almost immediately captured by German soldiers from the local flak battery. He'd broken his leg horribly, either in the exploding plane, or upon landing, he never knew which. He was manhandled by German soldiers from the flak battery and drifted between agonizing pain and unconsciousness.

Pop Mouser and his buddy Bernie Weis were also captured quickly.

Ed Kucinski came to after landing in the Channel, having been saved by the quick actions of George Swingle in getting him out of the plane. Kucinski somehow managed to struggle ashore and was captured.

George Swingle drifted down towards the town and landed hard on the roof of a building, breaking his ankle while punching a hole in the roof at the same time. He hung on for dear life as he felt himself slipping. Throwing tiles down and yelling for help, he finally attracted some attention. Local civillians found a ladder and went up and brought him down. He ended up in a hospital bed in Brussels right next to John Northrup.

Richard Bender saw himself drifting towards the water and worked hard to slip his chute to get him back towards land. He then saw he was headed for a swamp and worked away from that, only to land in a barb wire entanglement where he was trapped until the Germans sent in a young soldier to get him out.

Reed Hollister was also captured quickly.

Belgium - 1944
The seven survivors soon were headed to Dulag Luft for interrogation and then towards over a year as prisoners of war. What little wreckage of the plane that hit land was removed from where it had fallen and the bodies of the three dead crewmen were recovered. John Thomas and Ernie Hernandez were identified by dog tags or other identification found on their remains.

The third body remained unidentified and was buried as "unknown" along with the other two men in an English Cemetery at Coxyde, Belgium.

The war in Europe raged on to its conclusion the next year.

After the war, the survivors returned home, as did those killed. By the date of death and knowing the identities of the other two men buried at Coxyde, identification of the "unknown" was made by process of elimination. Lt. Ashley Guynn returned to his hometown of Chico, California. He was buried with full military honors and a posthumous promotion to Captain.

Epilogue - 2000
Time went by, lives moved on, and Ashley Guynn drifted out of people's memories. Until one day a man took a walk on a lonely stretch of beach in Belgium.

Only three members of the crew are still alive. Richard Bender, John "Jerry" Northrup, and ball turret gunner Bernard Weis.

Ashley and Phyllis Guynn's modest little cottage home on Eighth Street in Chico, California is still where it used to be. The neighborhood is little changed, with the exception of the expanded State University. It is a peaceful and quiet place, just a few blocks away from where Ashley was buried after the war. Phyllis remarried eventually and lives with her husband in Chico. She still thinks often.of Ashley.

James Ashley Guynn is a physicist for a large national corporation in Corvallis,Oregon. He was born a little more than 12 months after the loss of his Uncle Ashley, for whom he is named. He will be taking early retirement in May of this year. He was of great help, and support.

Martin Collins and his wife recently traveled to Rattlesden Airfield. After consulting with Ashley's family and Richard Bender and John Northrup, there was mutual feeling that the Bracelet In The Sand will go on display at the 447th Bomber Group Memorial at Rattlesden Airfield England, to honor Ashley's and his crew's memory.

Dan Johnson and his wife Cathy are busy raising three young children. Dan continues to work tirelessly to bring news to lost friends and family members with the history of their WW2 airmen.

With great sadness, Mrs. Richard Bender passed away unexpectedly. As Richard was preparing to drive her home from the hospital following minor surgery, Mrs Bender collapsed just as they were completing her discharge papers.

It was Christmas Eve Day, 1999 -- Fifty Six years to the day of the first mission of the Ashley Guynn crew.

Guynn Crew Mission No.
Date 447BG Mission No.
Mission Target Aircraft Number
1 12/24/1943 116 Noball # 50 near Drionville, France 42-31169
2 01/04/1944 123 Port area at Keil, Germany 42-31191
3 01/07/1944 126 Ludwigshafen, Germany 42-31191
4 01/24/1944 139 Marshalling Yards - Frankfurt, Germany 42-31191
5 01/29/1944 142 Marshalling Yards-Frankfurt, Germany 42-97484
6 02/03/1944 146 Port at Wilhelmshaven, Germany 42-97484
7 02/06/1944 149 Air Depot at Romilly-sur-Siene, France -
8 02/24/1944
162 Aircraft Industry Plants-Rostock, Germany 42-97484
9 02/25/1944 163 Aircraft Plant-Regensburg, Germany 42-97484
10 03/15/1944 178 Aircraft Plants-Brunswick, Germany 42-31191

11 03/16/1944 179 Aircraft Plant-Augsburg, Germany "202"

12 03/18/1944 181 Munich, Germany "764"
13 03/20/1944 184 Propeller Plant-Frankfurt, Germany "902"
14 03/26/1944 188 Noball #93 near Cherbourg, France "003"
15 03/27/1944 189 Airfield at Merignac, France "025"
16 03/28/1944 190 Airfield at Chatres, France "029"
17 04/09/1944 197 Warnamunde, Germany --
18 04/10/1944 198 Aircraft Repair Depot, Charleroi, Belgium --
19 04/11/1944 199 Aircraft Plant-Arnimswalde, Germany "052"
20 04/12/1944 190 Aborted mission to Liepzig, Germany --
21 04/22/1944 206 Marshalling Yards-Hamm, Germany "025"
22 04/24/1944 208 Aircraft Plant-Friedrichshafen, Germany "025"
23 04/27/1944 212 Le Coulet airfield, France 42-107197

Pilot --1st LT. Ashley M. Guynn (Capt. Posthumously) 0-746256 KIA
Co-Pilot 2nd LT. Richard R. Bender 0-684471 POW
Navigator/Bombardier 1st LT. Edmund R Hollister 0-739433 POW
Top Turret/Engineer T/Sgt. John H. Thomas Jr.
34450741 KIA
Tail Gunner S/Sgt. Ernest Hernandez 39277536 KIA
Ball Turret Gunner S/Sgt. Bernard J. Weis 12143039 POW
Radio Operator T/Sgt. George D. Swingle 14161347 POW
Right Waist S/Sgt. Charles A Mouser 15337767 POW
Left Waist S/Sgt. Edward F Kucinski 33167550 POW
Nose gunner S/Sgt. John A Northrup 15076240 POW

A speck of dirt on your windscreen could turn into an enemy fighter in the time it took to look round and back again. A little smear on your goggles might hide the plane that was coming in to kill you.
Derek Robinson
From the book Piece of Cake.

Heavy_Weather
05-16-2004, 06:53 AM
thx for the great read Jagdgeschwader2 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

"To fly a combat mission is not a trip under the moon. Every attack, every bombing is a dance with death."
- Serafima Amsova-Taranenko: Noggle, Ann (1994): A Dance with Death.

p1ngu666
05-16-2004, 07:27 AM
good thread http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!

DONB3397
05-16-2004, 08:22 AM
Thanks for an entertaining read. I've posted before that my uncle and father were both aircrew -- uncle as navigator in a B-17, 8th AF, and father a radio operator in a B-24, 15th AF out of Italy. I'm grateful that both survived the war, though the uncle spent the last year and a half in a Stalag east of Berlin.

Somehow, it makes the story above somewhat personal.

http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/3fe77b7e_1812a/bc/Images/Sig---1.jpg?BChYvpABNek7LZQo
"And now I see with eye serene/The very pulse of the machine;
A being breathing thoughtful breath,/A Traveller between life and death." -- Wordsworth

ELEM
05-16-2004, 08:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vortex_uk:
Nice,but what is that in the second pic? it looks like some sort of modified Ju-88 crossed with a Fw-189 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Blom & Voss BV141

Photos come from here and more besides.

I wouldn't join any club that would have ME as member!

http://img35.photobucket.com/albums/v107/Elem_Klimov/I-16_desktop.jpg

jodybat
03-25-2008, 12:36 PM
Hopefully I'm posting this correctly...

I am the grandaughter of Richard "Rudolph" Bender... and would not be here today if he had not caught an pneumonia and flown that mission... my grandmother Theresa "Pat" Walsh was also a pilot, knew how to work on plane engines and her father was a flight instructor.

The aviation magazine mentioned is my late father's aviation art publication, sucessful in its time but the publishing company he owned was dissolved after his death in 2007.

My grandfather (who is alive and well living at a "plane friendly" community in Florida) self-published a memoir in 2004 called "Maximum Effort : Some Adventures of a Young Pilot in the Air War over Germany during World War II" - its on Amazon as "unavailable" but you can email me at jodybat@gmail.com if you would like a copy I can try to get one for you!!!

Thank you so much for sharing my family's story!

Jody L. Bender
Tustin, CA

Xiolablu3
03-25-2008, 01:38 PM
Amazing, pleased to meet you!

jarink
03-25-2008, 04:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
b17 survives 109 rammjagers
http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_006/109ram.jpg

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_006/b17_000.jpg
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This was the B-17F 41-24406 "All American" of the 414th Bomb Squadron, 97th Bomb Group. On February 1, 1943, during a missino to Bizerte, the plane was hit by a Fw-190 that had just struck another B-17, shearing off the bomber's wing. The first plane immediately went into a spin, although 3 crewmembers were able to bail out. The impact with All American caused the Fw to break apart into several pieces, several parts lodging themselves into the bomber.

The All American, flown by Lt. Kendrick Bragg, had it's entire left horizontal stabilizer sheared off in addition to having the rear fuselage nearly cut in two. However, there was still one control cable intact and the tail was hanging on by a few spars and the skin. He decided to stay with the plane, although he told the rest of the crew they were free to bail out at any time. None did. After arriving back at their base at Biskra Oasis, they waited until all other planes had safely landed. Lt. Bragg then brought the plane down as gently as possible until it rolled itself to a stop. Only then did the remaining spars give way and break.

Later, an anonymous crewman drew a picture of a puppy with his paws held together in prayer riding the rear fuselage of a B-17 with the tail nearly torn off. It was adopted as the 414th's official insignia for the rest of the war.

Incredibly, 41-24406 "All American" was fully repaired and transferred to the 301st Bomb Group in March of 1943. It was eventually salvaged in March 1945.
http://www.kfs.org/~oliver/dambusters/images/all-american.jpg

Yes, i have plans to skin this plane (and others from the MTO)! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif